The main reason im not religious.

Im not denying anything about religion that cannot be supported with contrary evidence. What I dislike is when the evidence is there, people refuse to even look at it. Some people still believe the earth is 6000 years old. They believe that it would even matter if that was proven wrong and would somehow ruin their religious "integrity", so they refuse to look at it. They are terrified to get out of their box where stepping out might mean eternal hellfire and brimstone with red, horned devils with tridents prodding their sufferring bodies while laughing. So yeah, I think thatif something can make a person refuse to see logic, then that probably makes it illogical as well.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
In no other community besides a religious community will you see such strong clinging to illogical interpretations being thoroughly debunked with simple logic, yet the one who believes in the interpretation will blindly and emotionally defend the interpretation despite all the simple logic. Its sad, really.

Every other community, most people have the ability to consider alternative explanations of things except perhaps the ufo community. I guess if you want to believe something bad enough, you naturally will reject an honest method of exploration in favor of a biased, closed minded approach.

Im not writing this to say the subjects of religion are definitely wrong as much as I am writing this to point out rhat the term "religious nut job" is a good term to describe some of you religious people. Its obvious you dont even want to hear other explanations even if they are being offered by trustworthy people who have appriached the topic using.honest logic. You dont want to hear them, so you dont.

It may be irrational for me to disregard religion based on the religious, but after seeing your behaviors, im afraid that ill become retarded like some of you, and I dont want to lose my sanity. So I stay away from religion because I witness everyday how it makes some of you so disconnected from logic. Its ironic really that religions which speak of truth have so many followers that can disregard facts and logic so easily. Its ironic and sad. I hope with this thread some of you crazy people might take a second look at how you consider information and be more truthful in your approach to the beliefs that you tightly and blindly cling to.

smith,

God is madly in love with humanity, why would He not wish us to feel the same about Him? One person is worth
more to God than all created things. Believe, it's true!

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by NthOther

 

I only know so little about science that I'm not the right person to be an ambassador to explain anything about science. To be honest I'm skeptical of your comment, but I respect it because it makes me see religion and science differently. To me science can answer all questions. We just need to use science right. But I only know so much and do have a little faith in science. We all need a little faith in life.

It is the same with religion. The seeker of truth gets greater wisdom than the small minded who do not want to seek. The more you think the more you understand. Have you ever read buddhism? If you want a religion that is based more in logic and where everything can be thought out by the mind then that might be for you. Christianety is more a lot of peoples views of the spiritual but not all can be right since they are contridicting each other from my point of view on the translations I have read.

There are spiritual interesting facts in the bible also but the ones who take it word for word without understanding the real meaning of the words will not get the higher level understanding from it and will probably miss a lot of reference. I cannot even think how cool it could be if it was in it's original langauge in it's own time.

Did you know that the name Jehovah means "the existing One". You tell that to a person like me that believes non duality is the true nature of everything and we go hmmmmm.

Originally posted by colbe

smith,

God is madly in love with humanity, why would He not wish us to feel the same about Him? One person is worth
more to God than all created things. Believe, it's true!

I do not doubt that. My problem with religion is not god but the belief that the bible or quran is infallible. Created by humans to try to describe something more but both corrupted in their own way to not be an easy guide to find your way home.

To many pages of views from people that destroys/confusses the message that should be so simple.
From my point of view. Only teach:
Matthew 7
Matthew 25:31-46
and ignore everything else in the bible and you will get rid of all the issues with the hypocritical goats that is hiding in your mist and maybe be able to see beyond your view/religion. Those who know the fruits of the other side have nothing to fear.

It may be irrational for me to disregard religion based on the religious, but after seeing your behaviors, im afraid that ill become retarded like some of you, and I dont want to lose my sanity. So I stay away from religion because I witness everyday how it makes some of you so disconnected from logic. Its ironic really that religions which speak of truth have so many followers that can disregard facts and logic so easily. Its ironic and sad. I hope with this thread some of you crazy people might take a second look at how you consider information and be more truthful in your approach to the beliefs that you tightly and blindly cling to.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Have you ever met a religious individual you didn't think was "retarded," insane or a "religious nut job?" I have.

Im not denying anything about religion that cannot be supported with contrary evidence. What I dislike is when the evidence is there, people refuse to even look at it. Some people still believe the earth is 6000 years old. They believe that it would even matter if that was proven wrong and would somehow ruin their religious "integrity", so they refuse to look at it. They are terrified to get out of their box where stepping out might mean eternal hellfire and brimstone with red, horned devils with tridents prodding their sufferring bodies while laughing. So yeah, I think thatif something can make a person refuse to see logic, then that probably makes it illogical as well.

The Bible doesn't say the earth is 6000 years old and it definitely doesn't say one will go to hell depending on how long they think the earth has been in existence. It bothers me to think that people like you will discredit the Bible, which, as the inspired word of God, is the only thing upon which Christianity is based, because you've heard people who follow it believe things that are contrary to science. The Bible still stands regardless of whatever group-thinking, collective narrative is being spread by church-goers. Religion and faith are not one in the same. The word of God and religious dogma are not one in the same. Religious nut jobs and Christians are not one in the same.

"My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding—
indeed, if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
He holds success in store for the upright,
he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless,
for he guards the course of the just
and protects the way of his faithful ones.
Then you will understand what is right and just
and fair—every good path.
For wisdom will enter your heart,
and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul.
Discretion will protect you,
and understanding will guard you." Prov. 2

reply to post by smithjustinb


However, I do believe some of the things said in christianity I believe
Other things as well. Some people who are religious that believe only what
A book tells them are dilusional and need to open there eyes to the real things in life.
Also, just because u don't believe in one particular religion doesn't mean that u aren't religious it means that you don't believe in a particular thing but if you have different beliefs then its still religion whether its labled as a name or not. In my opinion of course. Wow this may cause a debate lol.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Dear smithjustinb,

I'm sorry to be repetitive, but I'd like to repost a little of what I wrote earlier in the thread:

If my understanding of spiritual matters were "thoroughly debunked with simple logic," I would abandon it. But that hasn't occured yet. I welcome your attempt. I'm all ears.

Of course I have the ability to consider alternative explanations. When I am presented something better than what I have now, I'll accept it. What is your alternative explanation?

You've mentioned the 6000 years issue. I don't believe it, the Catholic Church doesn't teach it, the Bible doesn't teach it. If I remember correctly it was the conclusion of a man named Usher. Some people may accept his calculcations, many don't. Besides, true or not, it's certainly not an essential part of any doctrine with which I am familiar. I'm sure Westboro Baptist believes several things which can not fairly be called Christianity.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by EnochWasRight

The Same Adam that fell is the same Adam at the end that saves humanity.

Uh, no. That Adam returned to the dust of the earth. The second Adam was God himself, for there was no man in heaven to intercede for us, so God had to become his own highpriest...his own Melki-Tsedec.

Isaiah 59:15-21


15 So truth fails,
And he who departs from evil makes himself a prey.

The Redeemer of Zion


Then the Lord saw it, and it displeased Him
That there was no justice.


16 He saw that there was no man,
And wondered that there was no intercessor;
Therefore His own arm brought salvation for Him;
And His own righteousness, it sustained Him.
17 For He put on righteousness as a breastplate,
And a helmet of salvation on His head;
He put on the garments of vengeance for clothing,
And was clad with zeal as a cloak.
18 According to their deeds, accordingly He will repay,
Fury to His adversaries,
Recompense to His enemies;
The coastlands He will fully repay.
19 So shall they fear
The name of the Lord from the west,
And His glory from the rising of the sun;
When the enemy comes in like a flood,
The Spirit of the Lord will lift up a standard against him.


20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion,
And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,”
Says the Lord.

21 “As for Me,” says the Lord, “this is My covenant with them: My Spirit who is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants’ descendants,” says the Lord, “from this time and forevermore.”

It was the spirit in the first Adam, that was the Holy Spirit. The spirit in the second Adam was also the Holy Spirit, but the first Adam lost him. The second Adam was God and he breathed his breath of life on his Apostles first, just as he breathed the breath of life on Adam.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Uh, no. That Adam returned to the dust of the earth. The second Adam was God himself, for there was no man in heaven to intercede for us, so God had to become his own highpriest...his own Melki-Tsedec.

This would go against the Kinsman laws. Yes, Adam was yoked with God. This is the seed of the Holy Spirit that we all receive when we are baptized into Spirit and not water. As the Baptism of Christ reveals, he received that Spirit when? When GOD told Christ well done. Who was God speaking to? Not himself. Clearly, there is a differeince between the Aleph Bet and the Bet Nun. One carries the seed and the other IS the germ (Letters of the Aleph Bet). God cannot enter temples of men. Acts 17 states this. God does not appear in the image. Deuteronomy 4 states this. God takes no form in the image and the SON is the one redeeming. YES, the Son is the fullness of God. This is also true with no contradiction. Why? Once He made the sacrifice for the requirements of God, the Son was told, "Well done."

Who was the first man and who created Him (Involved into Adam)?

Luke 3

38 the son of Enosh,

the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

Son of God - Adam and so on. The sacrifice the Son made was not on the cross. This was merely symbolic of what came before. The sacrifice was the Son coming to be our Shepherd. Within us all, the Bet Nun is the house of the seed. That word is DNA and we are all carrying it. Jesus was the Holy Spirit (Aleph Mem) and the Son together. If anything, we need to recognize the mother as what she is. There are three in a family. Father, Son and Mother. Aleph Mem is Mother in Hebrew and what is between the Aleph and the Tav in Truth? MEM. Mem is water and the Spirit we occupy while in the water. It is the mother of creation.

We cannot personify this as human. It is likely not. This is our introduction to God before we meet face to face. We are not sure what we will face.

One thing is for sure. God is not in the image. The image of God is with us. There is a difference. How so?

Again, if you look in a mirror, you see your image. The reflection is not you. You are not even creating the Reflection. you just happen to show up in it. The real you is the one it catches a glimpse of and not the one you give the glimpse to. Do you see the difference? Where are you?

Matthew 18

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven. [11]

12 “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.

Who goes after the Sheep? God or the Son? If you say God and Christ are one, you are correct. They are each invariably symmetrical, just like the strong force of physics demands. They are not the same one however because God is one and only one. Will we be one with God at some point? How? We are made into the image of the Son, not God.

We are already the image of God, but not God Himself. God's image is made from the Aleph Bet and we are his words. Is Christ His word? Can I safely say that the words on this page are one with the letters, yet each word is unique unless it repeats? Even if it repeats, it is in a different place and even time. Can I call those letters back up again and again? Words?

When we think that things can only be this way or that, we forget that God is not limited to one or the other. He is both, and because of the Sons work (1 Cor. 15), God will be all in all.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Go back and read Isaiah 59. How many people are discussed in this? First, God. Second, Lord, who is actually doing the speaking. Isaiah, who is the scribe. The Lord then says, we. We, meaning, us and Him. Lord is the Son of God. God is God. All four parties are the discussion of one nation under the leadership of the Lord. At the end of this and at the heart of Psalms, what are we seeing? Lamenting of the Son in the wilderness. David was the pen in hand, but the Lord was the speaker in Psalms.

This is a paradigm shift to see that the Lord is the the God, yet he IS the God of the Hebrews.

So many of these verses must be seen by the light of the Son in the wilderness, alone as the God of man. Read this one:

Isaiah 44:6-8

6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

---What do we make of this. Lord is a King over a nation. Redeemer is the Lord of Hosts (Many). He is the First one Created. Yes. And He is the Last (Adam). Beside Him, there are no others to lead. In other words, the words of Jesus ring out. "My God, My God, why hast thous forsaken me." Are you seeing what I see in this or am I alone here? When the Son of God occupies the Cosmos (IMAGE), He is the creator and He is also the Lord of this Creation, but not the God of Genesis 1. He is the God of Genesis 2, left alone to rule this universe. God is there raising Him, just as our Lord is here raising us. Don't we feel the same? Why are were here in this wilderness alone?

7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.

---If you read the text the way I do, you hear the Lord struggling with this entire thing. We get the feeling of the Lord having a heavy heart for the people He selected to lead and their rebellion against him.

8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any].

---When we are involved here in baptism, do we know if there is a God out there somewhere. What is He declaring here? He knows no other God. In other words, if there is one, he doesn't know it.

As we find Jesus speaking to the Father, what do we see in Him? A Father guiding him to the end, yet requiring the sacrifice for the place he Created. Who is Adam and why is he the last Adam as well? Why is He the firstfruits of what follows? Once we no longer need a Lord, who do we meet behind the veil?

This gives new meaning to loving enemies, forgiveness and seeing the atrocities in the OT. The Son was being raised and it really took me a long time to see past the arrogance, then humility of the Lord.

Go back to Job 19:

25 I know that my redeemer[c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[d]
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,[g]’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.[h]”

Job knew who the redeemer would be. The root of the trouble was in him. We cannot hound the Redeemer, but this is precisely what we see people doing today. They trample themselves. We are all the Son and from the Son. He is a reflection of us and we of Him. He is who we can be by rising to His example at the end of His story. You ask yourself, "Why wasn't he at the right hand the entire time?" He was being raised. The struggle in the Word is truly our struggle. I forgive Adam and I think this is the point. When we wake and know our connection to God, we see that God is one. Not that we are God, but that our expression is from God. In essence He is us.

Take it another way. God involves into the material world as Spirit, yet forgets Himself. He then rises to remember. This is the essence of involution and evolution, yet what is created? The new thing never looses its identity. God was the one, yet the many are still the one. The same is true for the first one that was imaged from God, the Son.

I can't pretend to understand it, yet I don't want to say we are all God. This is not the point as far as I can see. Like Abraham, we keep what we were willing to give up. The son.