There Is Something Intrinsically Wrong With America

In regards to the Carlin quote on politicians... the best and brightest of America today DO NOT I repeat DO NOT become politicians. In the 1700's and 1800's they did. But not today. Not by a long shot. I don't think I could even find one decent honest politician in Washington who's main focus is what's best for America. The reason for that is they wouldn't last in today's political culture.

You would think it impossible in our current economy to find even one politician that would support a pork bill or giving aid to a country that wants to kill us while in our own towns and homes people are jobless and going hungry. But in reality there isn't a single politician who stands against this idiocy. The list of pork bills and wasteful spending is higher than ever. And no one is held accountable. At least not in the voting booths.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Looking for some common sense ownership of America's issues Heff?

You'll be hard pressed to find that anywhere but in these sorts of communities.

I hate to link it, but..

This is what's wrong with America. It's not #1 but the elected officials and those in charge actually think it still is.

~Tenth

For that matter, if you are NOT watching this show (Season 2, started last night), then you aren't (haven't been) getting the news.

Greatest show on television (minus TDS and Colbert).

Didn't read through all the posts cause I am busy with work, but I still felt the need to respond to Heff's poignant OP.

American society is like an addict. Until it collectively understands it has a problem and has hit rock bottom, it will never rid itself of (or even start to reverse) the social diseases that continue to infect it.

And, like any addict, the toxicity of its environment will slowly erode until the addict is consumed or dead.

reply to post by Hefficide

The elite's war on the middle class for the sake of globalization killed the "American dream" and without the American dream and equal access to opportunity ie: to make each generation more materially successful than the last, and to improve one's own position, then America isn't really America any more. Add to that the propaganda, and the dumbing down process that it facilitates, and well, let's just say that the prognosis isn't so good. The political divide is also too strong to achieve any meaningful progress.

I greatly appreciate your view point on the subject. Thanks for posting.

There's a lot intrinsically wrong with America. That's clear from the ATS homepage, anyway.

People these days are too complacent, tuned out, oppressed, and/or lazy to take a stand and do anything about it. Those Occupy groups tried, but...hey what happened to them?

It costs a ton for food, shelter, gas and other basic necessities. We're the leader of the free world and we've basically de-industrialized our nation. There's one big problem, right there.

We need to put Americans back to work in the manufacturing industry instead of importing garbage from China. That would help, a lot, but not being in the 1% makes it difficult to voice the needs of a nation.

reply to post by Hefficide


I've been thinking a lot about this because it is a pretty good question, and you Heff have a way of bringing out the best in a conversation. We all pretty much see that the US and by association, pretty much the planet. is in what appears to be a changing state. Everyone is talking about symptoms, causes, and solutions, and it is generally assumed that these changes are unfavorable. I tend to agree.

From those for whom the useless feeders at the public teat is a concern, to those who feel the oppressive corporate control of government is the problem. You have the moral issue: America is founded on conquest and plunder and is sure to reap it's just deserts. These are all very true, but do little to explain the vulnerability and corruption of the citizenry.

I believe we have a situation here that may not have a solution. It appears to me that we may be at a period in time where propaganda and inducements to forming habits or patterns of behavior are at a particularly effective high. That is to say that a very few individuals have unprecedented influence over increasingly greater numbers of folks like you and me.This places severe limitations on the possibilities of visions for the future of the human living experience.

To reverse this trend I'm not sure is possible. The effectiveness of the propaganda endeavor is a direct result of our connectedness, an almost constant engagement or communication. Couple this extreme sharing of information with a system of survival that is largely dependent on this level of engagement and it don't look good. We have constructed our own tower of Babel, and short of a reappearance of the almighty, I think we are stuck with it.

And don't worry about that peak energy thing. There will be enough left to keep what's necessary going. And I'm sure it will be up to us the people as a whole to decide what is necessary.

Today we scream and moan about the absolute affront of domestic spying. The truth is that on September 12, 2001 we almost universally demanded it. We demanded to know how such a thing could happen in the modern world. We were shocked to find out that such spying was not already happening. Today we scream and moan about social programs. The truth of the matter is that our parents and grandparents almost universally demanded these things as the Great Depression ravaged their lives and ripped this nation to the bone and to the brink of collapse. They could not understand why safety nets were not already in place. Today we scream and moan about Iraq and Afghanistan. Not too many years removed we all wanted Saddam Hussein's head on a pike. Today we scream and moan about taxes. But we all enjoy the infrastructure and benefits that those taxes afford us.

reply to post by Hefficide

Excellent points.
I believe the above situations result, in large part, from "gut" reactions, decisions made, not based upon looking at all of the facts and ramifications of such laws. but making split decisions, based upon the emotion of the day. In addition, people, whether they realize it or not, in large part, are influenced by the way the media reports a story or situation, and the "crowd mentality". Although it is hard for humans to separate emotion from fact, the bottom line is that we should all base our decisions upon knowing as many facts, and as many ramifications as we have available, BEFORE making a decision. One of the things that retailers understand is the way this "gut" reaction affects sales. Go into any store, and you will find the items that they are pushing placed in very conspicuous locations. They fully realize that in an "instant gratification" society, these techniques work well. Politicians and the news media also understand this. I admit that all of us, at times, fall prey to this simple quirk of human nature, but if we stopped, weighed the facts and ramifications of our actions, in a very structured way, we would be much less likely to make decisions that we will later regret.
Just my two cents, after careful thought and consideration of my words.......

reply to post by Hefficide


reply to post by tothetenthpower


I just wanted to stop in and say that I'm extremely moved by this thread. I cried watching that clip, tenth... I love it when I can read or see something that makes me question myself and my positions. Thank you both very much.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Looking for some common sense ownership of America's issues Heff?

You'll be hard pressed to find that anywhere but in these sorts of communities.

I hate to link it, but..

This is what's wrong with America. It's not #1 but the elected officials and those in charge actually think it still is.

~Tenth

Sorry a little late but wow just wow. It made my eyes water and Im not American. Does this make me a sycophant, I dont care because I regard America as my (other) homeland.

reply to post by Hefficide


Good Post OP!
At least we all see that we have a problem now when the rest of the sleeping masses realize this we may be able to begin fixing this mess! Though It may not be in my lifetime! Unless we can unite, equate, educate, sacrifice and encourage understanding we wont have a chance! America has been demoralized, distracted, divided and dumbed down for so long now that I have my doubts that we may ever get out of this nightmare!
Though this is no reason not to try and though the road will be a hard, long and winding climb there is always HOPE that salvation may be over the next hill or around the next bend! And if I should fall I shall meet you there my friends, in the tall grass by the fast brook with waders on!

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom



Greed and Corruption have no parties. No friends, No set place it lives, it is a virus able to spread from the smallest of successes. It's responsible for so much wasted promise and ability, it's the reason America isn't what is used to be and why it will most likely be a group of separated states of America's past.

Through our failures, maybe someone in the future will have the road map to actual democracy.

Now having run this thread, well done by the way, how about showing your objectivity and lack of any bias, start a new thread about what is intrinsically right about America?..........

reply to post by nwtrucker


I am more than happy to talk about the things that make America a great place to live. There is a great deal for those of us to live here to be thankful for and appreciative of. However there is no bias involved at all in pointing out the areas where there is room for improvement. The things that are right about America do deserve our respect and vigilance ( to ensure they stay that way ) - but the time for shoulder patting and harumphing about those things is not today. Today we have work to do regarding the things that need to change.

reply to post by Hefficide


Part of me thinks we should be grateful that we have room to improve. I can't imagine a better way to spend my life than feeling as though I accomplished something vastly important and crucial for the future generations of this nation. The crux of that is, of course, that we need to actually spend that time improving instead of just talking about it.

And the other side of that is knowing how to improve. Does this need to be improved? How should it be improved? How far should we push it before we move onto the next thing? What is the next thing? Why should we work on that next? Some people might think I'm taking that a little too deeply, but these are important questions to ask. When your car has a lot of problems and you need it to work fast, you have to prioritize and know when something could be better but doesn't need to be, and when something could be better and does need to be, and when something just isn't working at all and needs to be changed entirely. It really is a fine art, and that's why we have democracy, in my opinion. You have a working timetable where all these elements fit into slots according to how they need to be handled, and that makes the whole process of repairing a hobbling government or economy or whatever that much quicker and more productive. And who makes that timetable? The people we have tasked with the duty of making it with us in mind.

And that makes us the most important part of the process. We are hiring those people to recognize and manage those repairs. Our taxes are paying them to do that on our behalf. When we fail to make sure we're picking the right professionals for that job, we are failing the system we rely upon. And I don't remember who exactly...I think it was Garth...but one of you guys on ATS Live made that point when you were talking about politics in America. This is something we need to look at. The problem isn't just the government, it's the public as well. No, the politicians don't deserve nearly as much blame as we give them. The policies don't deserve nearly as much flack. We knew what they were and who they were before we elected them. Sure, they suck. But you know who else sucks?

Every person who voted to put them in office and voted for those policies without examining the repercussions.

reply to post by Hefficide

The American of today, in fact, probably enjoys less personal liberty than any other man of Christendom, and even his political liberty is fast succumbing to the new dogma that certain theories of government are virtuous and lawful, and others abhorrent and felonious. Laws limiting the radius of his free activity multiply year by year: It is now practically impossible for him to exhibit anything describable as genuine individuality, either in action or in thought, without running afoul of some harsh and unintelligible penalty. It would surprise no impartial observer if the motto “In God we trust” were one day expunged from the coins of the republic by the Junkers at Washington, and the far more appropriate word, “verboten,” substituted. Nor would it astound any save the most romantic if, at the same time, the goddess of liberty were taken off the silver dollars to make room for a bas-relief of a policeman in a spiked helmet. Moreover, this gradual (and, of late, rapidly progressive) decay of freedom goes almost without challenge; the American has grown so accustomed to the denial of his constitutional rights and to the minute regulation of his conduct by swarms of spies, letter-openers, informers and agents provocateurs that he no longer makes any serious protest.

H.L. Menken 1920

en.wikiquote.org...

Take a minute to read some of that on his page and quite a bit of 'current issues' well aren't so 'current' after all.

Thought you might like so linked this for your consumption.