There Is Something Intrinsically Wrong With America

Does anyone really believe that the nature of man that is being dramatized in America and pointed out by so many is any different anywhere else or at any time in the history of this world?

Not one bit of difference that I can see.

There's always been people of vision and good will just as there has always been the opposite.

A "free society" allows room for more of both. Yet, perhaps what is happening to America is inevitable. Not so much based on our individual flaws or the weaknesses in our constitution, if any, but on room, on the ability to grow and expand.

Enough "elbow room" to allow both individual sovereignty and different desires and goals to seemly co-exist.

We've about filled this planet up.

We've also, via technology,have made it a very "small world". Not much elbow room left. Not many options, either, at least palatable ones.

Individual sovereignty is being trumped by "social responsibility". Yet the "socially responsible" both help and abuse just as those individually sovereign do. They just have more power, via numbers, to both help and harm others.

I see no solution other than to look up....look to the stars... room for growth and expansion. We once believed that that was our destiny. Even back to the golden age of science fiction in the 1930's.

We seem to have stopped looking outward, other than as entertainment.

Do we have enough time? I fear not.

Really an over-simplification, but think about it.

What happens when everything to sell has been sold?, when most all of our resources have been exploited for profit and exploiters want more?.

When the environment has been destroyed for the most part, and the people don't know the difference between wants and needs because they are so accustomed to a cushy existence, as we are, what then?.

I say it's time to grow up, Britain grew up, Canada grew up, France grew up, a lot of countries grew up and moved away from "Wild West Capitalism". These countries have been in the society business for a lot longer than the U.S. has been, they figured out the old rape pillage and burn capitalist bull# doesn't work anymore, not on any permanent or sustainable level anyway.

I suppose the U.S. needs to experience what Europe did through the two World Wars, farmers are still plowing up bombs and bodies and aircraft today, being reminded of what horrors war holds, how long the wounds take to heal....

Or the vast majority of us can just remain blissfully ignorant of what a real gob of excrement this country actually is because of our lack of concern for anything but our own selfish little wants.

I believe that only love and real forgiveness will heal us and overcome evil.
Any other solutions are greatly appreciated....

a lot of countries grew up and moved away from "Wild West Capitalism"

That is a big part of the problem. Essentially there are too many rich and powerful people with too much wealth and power. They control our government and have turned it against us and the world.

A big chunk of America supports these evil powers because their religious and political leaders tell them to.

We can't fix the problem without taking away the money and power from the powerful, and we can't do that while half the country believes that Jesus wants us to support the rich and powerful.

I hate these threads. but ill star and flag them. I do it out of hope, the hope that the fundamental shots from the hip and the peanut gallery will not enforce someone witht he spirit and drive to actually do something to change this country. In many cases the only thing many of us can do is work, pay bills, and continue to endure this nightmare or choose to ignore it with a hope it will change.

I dont want to get off on a rant here but we are not our fore fathers. They were both part of history and victims of it just as we are. The power of greed and the power of the sins of abuse of power have their own promised end. Self destruction is all we've inherited here and all I can really do. and be ultimately frustrated about is that my part in this slide downhill is the same as many other Americans. Trying to keep a living and keeping our heads above water.

My personal work with others in therapy and stress management pays the bills and is gratifying but i feel i should be doing this for everyone who needs it regardless of price or opportunity. i want to help everyone if I can but i cant help everyone. They cant help themselves.

There is something terribly wrong with out country, isn't there? But were all afraid. There maybe men and women, future generations, and even kismet in our future that will reverse this or change our fates as far as we as people are concerned. but our government? Our social systems of justice and law enforcement? have gone beyond Evil, gone beyond doing wrong. They stop at nothing and change those within them into a demonic and parasitic force that is so dysfunctional. so contrary to itself that one can only hope they will implode and leave us wondering what to do about it.

Dont get me wrong. i think certain actions against the despotic are needed but nothing else then a massive revolt that seems unlikely as hell to happen will reverse and defeat this on "our" terms. This is varymuch all in the hands of fate. I just know the mind vary well. i know that those who distrust and lack integrity enough to do these things will be consumed themselves and its not karma.. its just the nature of the beast.. but im not alone in my insights of man and his abilities to be enslaved. They will find new deceptions, new technologies and new methods to keep the cycle going against ourselves.

but it will be a matter of time... like the proverbial Pandora box that they will open and use something they have not mastered fully something they think they have control of that we could exploit or worse.. will just turn on us all and we may have a chance at salvation again.

Man above all else wishes to be left alone. but no man is an island and we are all eventually confronted with the horrific truth that we are our brothers keeper.

reply to post by Hefficide


Heff I agree with most of what you say but did not Mayer Amschell Rothschild say," If I control a nations money I care not who makes it's laws". That is what we have. You say don't blame bankers, politicians, corporations and others, but in a sense they do control laws. With that money they controlled the media, education and many other aspects of our lives. I can go on and on but in the end it is us that has to make decisions. How do we do this? Quit using credit cards. This has become increasingly difficult as the controllers are leaning more in a cashless electronic direction. Vote? For whom what party. Both sides work toward the same ends but use different flavors to get there. If new party forms it is demonized into irrelevance. Take Ron Paul for example the big three media outlets completely ignored him when he in fact was becoming quite a force. Google Jon Stewart show on Ron Paul. Jon does a good job outing the medias concerted effort to marginalize Dr. Paul.
So in conclusion we do have controllers that manipulate how we think and in a way conduct our lives. The only way I see out of this is a paradigm shift in mans consciousness or a miracle. I really don't want to sound like a doomer as I truly believe we will come out the better. I hope I get to see it in my lifetime but my children and grandchildren will. Mans consciousness is rising as our recent events have shown but the growing pains will not be easy. Peace to all

Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
Really an over-simplification, but think about it.

I say it's time to grow up, Britain grew up, Canada grew up, France grew up, a lot of countries grew up and moved away from "Wild West Capitalism". These countries have been in the society business for a lot longer than the U.S. has been, they figured out the old rape pillage and burn capitalist bull# doesn't work anymore, not on any permanent or sustainable level anyway.

Except thats really not the issue.

Wild west capitalism isn't whats wrong with america. If there was wild west capitalism the zombie banks would have failed and been eaten by smaller banks smart enough to not go bust through incompetence.

If there was wild west capitalism the mal-investments made in 2008 would have been flushed from the system rather than be supported by the taxpayer.

If there was wild west capitalism the Fed would not be pumping equities through massive money printing leading to a decoupling between the stock market and reality.

Just because the media tells you america is a bastion of 'free market capitalism' doesn't mean it actually is.

The biggest problem with america is that the Fourth Estate is a broken, rotting shadow of itself. You cant sort out corruption if those supposed to be reporting on it are employed by those doing the deeds.

Thats at the root of it all. Not enough of the decent populace really know whats going on as there is a whole powerful industry employed to keep them in the dark.

None of the countries you mention are really much better in that regard. We are all heading at different speeds down the same track.

Originally posted by Ansuzrune


The only way I see out of this is a paradigm shift in mans consciousness or a miracle. I really don't want to sound like a doomer as I truly believe we will come out the better. I hope I get to see it in my lifetime but my children and grandchildren will. Mans consciousness is rising as our recent events have shown but the growing pains will not be easy. Peace to all

I for one am not going to apologize for being a "doomer" as I don't think man's consciousness is rising at all.
In fact I see evidence that with the digital age man is actually devolving, becoming lazy, unable to conceptualize or think laterally, more easily led by the clever, corrupt, wealthy, powerful and largely hidden elite.

I will agree however that a "miracle" of biblical proportions might foster a paradigm shift. And with the earth changes that are largely being ignored, it very well could happen. A volcanic blast could easily put enough particulate matter in the atmosphere to block out the sun, create a perpetual winter/iceage and starve most people in a short amount of time. The Earth is still a very active planet geologically.

Not to mention man in his wisdom has created doomsday bioweapons that could escape in to the atmosphere and do us all in quickly.

When mankind renounces war for profit and resources; then we might actually see consciousness expansion; until then...all bets are off.

Intrinsically Wrong With America

Somthing is intrinsically wrong with the species.........

so........we might as well take it one day at a time and PARTY!!!

reply to post by WhoKnows100


...i agree with what you've said there

well spotted on the hand-signs ..there's also some interesting photos of david icke and what seems to be his wife (wedding photos) displaying various hand signs.

i believe this is why a certain clique of celebrities were involved in the 'dogma' movie. (carlin included)

what began in america is now exported through the world

i tried to "allude' to this in my first post here..

at the time of this posting, i noticed your comment (here) and mine (earlier) had received two of these 'stars' ...perhaps the same two people have read (and understood) what we have posted?

reply to post by Hefficide


Got a lot of stars for that - kudos they were deserved.

Tragic how America has fallen victim to extensive perversion through hypocrisy, strawmans and self-righteous yet impractical philosophies. Our country has been stifled in every area from finance to education.

Thanks for the inspiration.

reply to post by justwokeup

I know exactly what you're talking about.

I just had an argument with my father who is retired after working a union job his entire life, and me wanting to find a job in a sector of the economy where I actually could expect to be compensated for my labor and not have to worry about being fired or laid off on a whim.

I don't like having the rug yanked from under me, I'm getting old and don't fall as well as I used to.....

And investment in an education came up, I replied that there was at least a possibility that this investment would be for what amounts to nothing, which I KNOW from experience may be the case.

I can't even commit to participating in the economy on any more than the most basic level because I have no faith in anything anymore, and I am accused of having crazy ideas I get from the internet holding me back.

My father gets his information from the TV, and thought Zimmerman was guilty of a crime and should have been punished, didn't even know that the guy was with neighborhood watch, thought Zim was basically nothing more than a stalker according to the mainstream media. I can't help but wonder what it is the media was trying to accomplish, and am glad to see the legal system still works like it should SOMETIMES.

Anyway....I love the guy, but dammit!!!...

reply to post by olaru12

How can consciousness rise when one is distracted by something nearly every waking second of one's life?.

I came to realize a lot of things because of having time to think about things from being unemployed for nearly half of the last decade. The distraction of intoxication worked for part of those years but got old for me, but not most of my friends and relatives which I had to push away, now I am alone.

All one can do is try to lead by example, and I am not talking about keeping up with the Jones's. He who leads by example walks alone.

I am the man in the wilderness feeding mosquitos, but I know what I don't want and this society of morons that surrounds me scares me more than death itself.

Thanks for bringing me back to reality.

Good synopsis of the current state of affairs Heff.

Most of us politically are right around the middle in my opinion. We need to get back there to start effecting any change. You said you lean left while I go right. No real problem there except that the ptb has driven a wedge between people like us to push us farther away from center and some to complete radicalism. This is an exploitation of our real problem..acceptance of non moral activities by Americans.

As a general observation our media is biased, our youth has no morality, intelligence has dropped and reality tv is not entertainment, people idolize and emulate some of these "stars."

Where is our integrity? our honor? our belief in America?

It is sickening, I have watched the degradation of our area that was once a sleepy country kind of town into one that has some serious big city type crime problems. No respect for one's property or life for that matter.

I really fear that it will just get worse, I try to do my part; I vote, I participate in functions with like minded people, I call or write my legislators. However, I feel it falls on deaf ears, they offer only more rhetoric not solutions.

I shudder to think how the founding fathers would view us now...weak.

Interesting thread.

Question: What would need to be done DIFFERENTLY for "WRONG AMERICA" to become "RIGHT AMERICA" again?

reply to post by Hefficide


Sir, I'm afraid this excellently written piece is not only a critical statement of America, it is a critical statement of most of the governments of the majority of democratically elected governments worldwide. None of those elected bodies govern for the 'common' people, there interests lie with the 'Elitist' power makers , we see this on a daily basis, but was is our alternative? monarchy ? living under a tyrannical government like Saudi Arabia?....To be honest until a few months ago I believed politicians (I live in the UK) were just incompetent buffoons, incapable of voicing their concurs against party rhetoric. That was until I heard MP's referring too themselves as the 'Political class', this self termed description removes any identity or connection from those in the populous they are supposed to represent and openly states they consider themselves on a platform of cultural and moral superiority. My heart breaks when I write this next statement...It does not matter if we protest, if we strike, if we march. They will NOT change. Why should they? what can we do about it?

There Is Something Intrinsically Wrong With America

Dont sweat it pal. Move out into the country. Found a family. Enjoy raising your kids. Find a vocation you love. Quit watching and reading the news. Now you got it made.

reply to post by Hefficide


Beautiful post. Now the problem is that everybody doesn't want the same thing, the elections are rigged, and Presidents are puppets. I can control myself, but I can't control others, which is another problem

There is no way to eliminate corruption. In fact, even if we did default to how we were 200 something years ago, we'd eventually be right back here... Reason being, is because most people don't know the real reason as to why this country changed to begin with 100 something years ago, therefore most people will be susceptible to same problem.

Not to mention all the debt we have.. we're technically slaves of other slaves here. I'll be damned if I say, "13+ Trillion dollars of debt is MY fault!" because it isn't. Yet... I have to pay. It's not fair. To the people who DON'T take advantage of the system. There is no reward, so things are only going to get worse.

One of the best posts I've seen on ATS in years. Thoroughly enjoyed and concurrent with my particular world view.

We are all aware, for the most part, of the ills of society. The corruption we've allowed to fester. Whether it be the corporate mindset that preaches that products are an experience and people are marketable commodities with no real intrinsic value, or the entertainment industry and media which pumps out through the TV a warped fun house mirror reflection of humanity, or the education system and the extremely poor job we do at preparing our children for adult lives and situations.

For me, it reminds me of the chicken or the egg scenario, which came first? Did we ask for this prison in which we live in the name of comfortability, entertainment, and easy access? Or was it fed to us, subtly or forcefully? Either way we've allowed it to continue, by not standing up to it and not educating our peers to the dangers we face.

It's true that the buck stops with us, the People. All responsibility is on our shoulders, as it should be. As Americans we should take pride in this. With that comes the responsibilities. While I wholeheartedly agree with everything the OP stated I often wonder how easy it would really be to throw off the shackles. The prison of a society that has been built up around us is daunting, to say the least. I believe this is where most people have trouble. Either their imagination or fear will not allow them to come to terms with reality, or they unenthusiastically accept their fate, convinced they cannot change the System designed to enforce conformity.

There's a lot of awful people in the US unfortunately, as George Carlin so eloquently expressed quite often, but there are some tremendous people in this country, as well. We're all aware of this, or should be. We all know people that disgust us and people who inspire and astound us. Could be a schoolmate, a parent, a celebrity, whatever. But I guess therein lies the question. Why is it now a days, or some could argue always, that the evil and dastardly are the ones who so often find themselves in the position of power? Where are the good people? Do the evil ones just do whatever it takes, sacrifice everyone and everything to succeed at their goals? Or are good people lazy, uneducated, and not willing? That doesn't sound correct to me, based on my own personal experiences with decent people.

I think President Kennedy is an excellent allegory for this. And anyone who hasn't should read "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters" by James Douglas. We all differ on the small details and particulars, but over 90% of Americans believe our president died due to a conspiracy. I happen to be a part of that majority. I believe John Kennedy, faced with the prospect of the total annihilation of our planet, turned towards peace and worked with his perceived enemies to ensure it. He did not want to win the Cold War, he wanted to end it. This is our President, the people's man, our representative - he is us. Kennedy's story is our story. For turning towards peace, peace for all mankind, and asking Americans to concentrate on the vast number of similarities we share with our enemy instead of the minute differences, the People's representative was met with a cruel and gory ending. Kennedy, and by proxy the people, had been sent on a collision course with a drastic force. What is that force? One tends to think of it as external, but that force is very much a part of us, as well. Born from us.

So while I agree that ultimately it is We the People who must ensure a change for the better in our world, we must also come to grips with the fact that there are people out there who will burn the world to the ground just to achieve their objectives. We must be ready and willing to confront the Evil and banish it, either throw it in prison or treat it for it's ailments. As Jesus said, "Love thine enemies." But that doesn't mean let them walk all over you and ruin your life and your children's futures.

I think the essence of the OP and the real truth of the situation is we must overcome our division. As Kennedy asked us to do, look to the similarities we share instead of what makes us dissimilar. Whether the division is facilitated or just a part of human nature is irrelevant, it must end for us to move in a positive direction as a whole. The more divided we become, through perceived and most often irrelevant differences - such as political ideologies, sexual persuasion, ethnic background, favorite sports teams, gender - the more we forget we are all human, or all American, or all share this Earth as our home.

I have faith we can do it.

Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by Hefficide

 

There Is Something Intrinsically Wrong With America The World.

I agree with much of what you say but felt the need to upgrade the issues to a worldwide scale. We are all in the same boat.

Lost at sea.

Agreed, we used to be called Gt Britain once upon a time so I think I/we can understand where you are coming from. Going off track a little I have to say since joining this forum I have found it refreshing & surprising how you guys can be just as critical of your country as we are of ours. I mean we have always admired how you all display your flag with pride where we seem to be almost ashamed of the union jack but your patriotism seemed almost to the point of fanaticism. This was genuinely not meant to be an insult or me trying to be insulting just an opinion based (wrongly) only on the media, tv programmes etc.