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Can't get away from religious crap

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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by theRhenn

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by theRhenn

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
reply to post by theRhenn
 


I will take your silence as to my larger points to mean that you don't have a criticism of it.


No.. Take them as you not making sense. That's where the "are you kidding" came from.

Nothing of what you said had any basis at all. You're just pulling stuff out of your nether regions without any thought of what you're saying.


Which part do you need help understanding? Just reply with the number of the bullet point.

1. Jesus was murdered.
2. Jesus will only return when the world is at war.
3. Lasting Peace is only attainable through Jesus.
4. Any Lasting Peace before Jesus comes is a lie, and a sign of the Anti-Christ.

I would be happy to give you scripture versus to back up each of these bullet points.


1. So he was. What of it?
2. That is also true. What of it? Are you saying that we make war to make this happen? That's crazy talk if so. Hold on while I push my nuke button...
3. So it is. Again.. what of it? Are you saying that we should just give up and war? Is that what we're doing? Or... maybe, we're just trying to hold it together until someone worthy comes alone and takes care of it for us, since we're OBVIOUSLY not very good at it... That's my stance.
4. Perhaps... but have you seen any lasting peace since the foundation of the world? I'm sorry, I failed to find any proof of that ever taking place. Are you saying there has been?

So again.. I dont get your point. The rest you were pulling out of your butt. If you're trying to use any of these as a point, which I felt you were trying, it didn't connect. That's what I'm getting at.

Once again... Context is important. Why would you possibly ignore it? Oh yeah! To make your own point seem valid.


My point is that Christianity is a religion of war and vengeance and cited examples that you agree are in the Bible. You not being able to understand my point doesn't make it invalid. I have 'pulled' nothing out of my 'butt'. I listed the 4 bullet points, and you do not disagree with them.

I completely understand your refusal to see it as a religion of war, and I chalk it up to willful ignorance.




posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


Your rant about Christianity being a religion of war and violence . . . doesn't wash with me.

If it did, I might have more respect for the OP postulation.

Christianity . . . authentically lived-out . . . emphasizes doing unto others; loving others as one loves one's self etc.

ALL the examples since AD30 of Christians warring in the name of Christianity can rightfully be argued were instigated and pushed, implemented, acted-out by folks who were basically POWER-MONGERS waging war in the name of "Christianity" because it was a great way to motivate the unwitting troops.

God, since at least AD30, imho, has tended to do His own 'warfare,' as it were. He calls Christ's followers to lay down their lives for one another and for a lost world . . . as Christ did, if necessary.

Perhaps those who've never had someone love them THAT much find it far tooooo foreign an idea to wrap their understanding around.

= = = =

Nevertheless, the wars you seem so . . . given . . . to ranting about associated with Christianity are also easily explained rather fully by what Freud called

IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP dynamics.

One of his assertions that I feel was astute was that even a RELIGION based on love would be unloving to those not members of it. Too many so-claimed "Christians" have spent far too much time, energy, resources and blood proving him right.

. . . as does most every other interest group, value orientation of any intensity or strength--including the religions of atheism and scientism.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Which part do you need help understanding? Just reply with the number of the bullet point.


If I may? It's not in the bullet-point. It's in how you interpret it.


1. Jesus was murdered.


No, Jesus used the judicial system as a ritual tool. As an iteration of the dying-and-rising god, that's his thing.


2. Jesus will only return when the world is at war.


Just as a roller-coaster will only go down after its gone up. Enantiodromia.


3. Lasting Peace is only attainable through Jesus.


Jesus is a manifestation of the archetype of wholeness, to put it in Jungian terms. Go past the ego-self to the archetype to be whole and at peace.


4. Any Lasting Peace before Jesus comes is a lie, and a sign of the Anti-Christ.


Any 'worldly concern' before enlightenment is an illusion, and a sign of the ego-self.


edit on 13-7-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


Your rant about Christianity being a religion of war and violence . . . doesn't wash with me.

If it did, I might have more respect for the OP postulation.

Christianity . . . authentically lived-out . . . emphasizes doing unto others; loving others as one loves one's self etc.

ALL the examples since AD30 of Christians warring in the name of Christianity can rightfully be argued were instigated and pushed, implemented, acted-out by folks who were basically POWER-MONGERS waging war in the name of "Christianity" because it was a great way to motivate the unwitting troops.

God, since at least AD30, imho, has tended to do His own 'warfare,' as it were. He calls Christ's followers to lay down their lives for one another and for a lost world . . . as Christ did, if necessary.

Perhaps those who've never had someone love them THAT much find it far tooooo foreign an idea to wrap their understanding around.

= = = =

Nevertheless, the wars you seem so . . . given . . . to ranting about associated with Christianity are also easily explained rather fully by what Freud called

IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP dynamics.

One of his assertions that I feel was astute was that even a RELIGION based on love would be unloving to those not members of it. Too many so-claimed "Christians" have spent far too much time, energy, resources and blood proving him right.

. . . as does most every other interest group, value orientation of any intensity or strength--including the religions of atheism and scientism.




Nothing I have claimed comes from outside of the Bible. I am not speaking about any perversion of the Bible by those in power. I am not speaking of any wars specifically, or making any arguments about information that does not come directly from what is considered by Christians to be the divine word of their God.

While you aren't incorrect, your arguments have no bearing, because I am claiming apples and you are arguing oranges.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Which part do you need help understanding? Just reply with the number of the bullet point.


If I may? It's not in the bullet-point. It's in how you interpret it.


1. Jesus was murdered.


No, Jesus used the judicial system as a ritual tool. As an iteration of the dying-and-rising god, that's his thing.


2. Jesus will only return when the world is at war.


Just as a roller-coaster will only go down after its gone up. Enantiodromia.


3. Lasting Peace is only attainable through Jesus.


Jesus is a manifestation of the archetype of wholeness, to put it in Jungian terms. Go past the ego-self to the archetype to be whole and at peace.


4. Any Lasting Peace before Jesus comes is a lie, and a sign of the Anti-Christ.


Any 'worldly concern' before enlightenment is an illusion, and a sign of the ego-self.


edit on 13-7-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)


Again, this doesn't actually counter anything I am posting about Christianity being a Religion of War, it is simply explaining why it is a Religion of War.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Again, this doesn't actually counter anything I am posting about Christianity being a Religion of War, it is simply explaining why it is a Religion of War.


But that's a half-truth.

It's a religion of pairs-of-opposites... yin and yang.

War and peace.

Birth and death.

Good and evil.

Wisdom and foolishness.

Strength and weakness.

Freedom and slavery.

Rich and poor.

Christ and anti-Christ.


edit on 13-7-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by theRhenn

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by theRhenn

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
reply to post by theRhenn
 


I will take your silence as to my larger points to mean that you don't have a criticism of it.


No.. Take them as you not making sense. That's where the "are you kidding" came from.

Nothing of what you said had any basis at all. You're just pulling stuff out of your nether regions without any thought of what you're saying.


Which part do you need help understanding? Just reply with the number of the bullet point.

1. Jesus was murdered.
2. Jesus will only return when the world is at war.
3. Lasting Peace is only attainable through Jesus.
4. Any Lasting Peace before Jesus comes is a lie, and a sign of the Anti-Christ.

I would be happy to give you scripture versus to back up each of these bullet points.


1. So he was. What of it?
2. That is also true. What of it? Are you saying that we make war to make this happen? That's crazy talk if so. Hold on while I push my nuke button...
3. So it is. Again.. what of it? Are you saying that we should just give up and war? Is that what we're doing? Or... maybe, we're just trying to hold it together until someone worthy comes alone and takes care of it for us, since we're OBVIOUSLY not very good at it... That's my stance.
4. Perhaps... but have you seen any lasting peace since the foundation of the world? I'm sorry, I failed to find any proof of that ever taking place. Are you saying there has been?

So again.. I dont get your point. The rest you were pulling out of your butt. If you're trying to use any of these as a point, which I felt you were trying, it didn't connect. That's what I'm getting at.

Once again... Context is important. Why would you possibly ignore it? Oh yeah! To make your own point seem valid.


My point is that Christianity is a religion of war and vengeance and cited examples that you agree are in the Bible. You not being able to understand my point doesn't make it invalid. I have 'pulled' nothing out of my 'butt'. I listed the 4 bullet points, and you do not disagree with them.

I completely understand your refusal to see it as a religion of war, and I chalk it up to willful ignorance.


I dont disagree with the points... I disagree with you labeling them as a war religion. Those points have NOTHING to do with Christians being war mongers. You're confusing one stopping war with one starting and pushing war. GOD doesnt push war. He comes to bring peace and end all wars, by destroying evil. We are humans, we are not the devil or his minions. Stop putting it all in one big ball and calling it one thing. There are way too many levels to bunch everything together.

Take our laws for example. Would you consider what we have freedom? Probably not based on the laws we have. Your points, like freedom in this country, is an oxymoron. You're trying to call a diamond a spade. Just because YOU label something by your own interpretation, doesnt mean it's right.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


I disagree.

It is reasonable to want to avoid RELIGION. Most of the authentic Christians I know work to avoid RELIGION as RELIGION kills . . . in terms of "the law" of RELIGION.

However, you seem to be trying to make it sound like the New Testament advocates war on the part of authentic Christian believers.

That's simply NOT TRUE.

It's not true apples.
It's not true oranges.

It's simply NOT TRUE.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Again, this doesn't actually counter anything I am posting about Christianity being a Religion of War, it is simply explaining why it is a Religion of War.


But that's a half-truth.

It's a religion of pairs-of-opposites... yin and yang.

War and peace.

Birth and death.

Good and evil.

Wisdom and foolishness.

Strength and weakness.

Freedom and slavery.

Rich and poor.

Christ and anti-Christ.


edit on 13-7-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)


So, Jesus preaches peace while telling his followers to hunger for the war that will mark his return when he crushes their enemies. It's really a lop-sided pairing of opposites.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by BlueMule
 


I don't know what claiming all is ONE has to do with getting away from religious poo.

It's just another type of religious poo, imho.

It is also impossible to function in life and in society without a fitting appreciation for and relationship to

dichotomies.

Trying to eat more when one is full is absurd.

Trying to fill a full gas tank is absurd.

Shooting someone you love instead of blessing or feeding them is cruel and criminal and absurd.

imho, the pretense that there are no dichotomies . . . and no individual personalities created as such and valuable to Almighty God as unique personalities . . .

is either ignorance of reality or a seduction from hell pretending to obliterate distinctions when such is not functionally possible in life or reality.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:16 PM
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Like you.. I will chalk it up to willful ignorance... Because that's what it is. It's like someone calling the sun the moon, with you. You're trying to tie a label to something just because you have some weird way of connecting the dots that just cant be seen. Put the pot down and take a breath..

Still.. there is no point is arguing a valid point to someone who looks at the black and white and says that you will just "chalk it up to willful ignorance", when it's yourself who denies every bit of common sense. Besides.. what does that even have to do with your OP? Is the idea to stear away from every valid point then get hung up on just one set that you labeled as war because only you see it that way?

I'll take a page out of the book of good ideas and I'll simply decline further posts and stop feeding the troll, so to speak. After all, your posts are associated with trolling from the start. See what I did there?


You have fun, now... hear?



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


I disagree.

It is reasonable to want to avoid RELIGION. Most of the authentic Christians I know work to avoid RELIGION as RELIGION kills . . . in terms of "the law" of RELIGION.

However, you seem to be trying to make it sound like the New Testament advocates war on the part of authentic Christian believers.

That's simply NOT TRUE.

It's not true apples.
It's not true oranges.

It's simply NOT TRUE.


Again, you aren't posting anything to counter my assertion, taken from scripture, that Christianity is a religion of war. You can put your fingers in your ears and say "NOT TRUE" over and over again, but it doesn't mean anything until you can back it up with something more than your chanting.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

So, Jesus preaches peace while telling his followers to hunger for the war that will mark his return when he crushes their enemies. It's really a lop-sided pairing of opposites.


So is reality.

Yin eventually becomes so yin that it changes to yang, and vice-versa. It becomes its opposite.

Yin and yang aren't stagnant and so religions that are based on the insights of genuine mystics will be very similar underneath the cultural and temporal inflections. The scholarship of the comparative fields makes that very clear. Ever heard of Joseph Campbell?

Change is a part of reality. War becomes peace, sinner becomes saint, death becomes life, ignorance becomes enlightenment.

Enantiodromia.



edit on 13-7-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by theRhenn
Like you.. I will chalk it up to willful ignorance... Because that's what it is. It's like someone calling the sun the moon, with you. You're trying to tie a label to something just because you have some weird way of connecting the dots that just cant be seen. Put the pot down and take a breath..

Still.. there is no point is arguing a valid point to someone who looks at the black and white and says that you will just "chalk it up to willful ignorance", when it's yourself who denies every bit of common sense. Besides.. what does that even have to do with your OP? Is the idea to stear away from every valid point then get hung up on just one set that you labeled as war because only you see it that way?

I'll take a page out of the book of good ideas and I'll simply decline further posts and stop feeding the troll, so to speak. After all, your posts are associated with trolling from the start. See what I did there?


You have fun, now... hear?


My initial post was to illustrate how dangerous unchecked religions prevalent in our society are, like Christianity. This religion permeates our society, pop culture, place names, and history. Again, it doesn't matter to me if you can't seem to understand how my post relate to the topic at large, because you don't seem to have much of a grasp on anything being discussed in this thread.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jiggerj
 


Really? You're "assaulted" by religious beliefs? You have an absurdly loose operational definition of assault you're working with there. Either that or you're quite emotional and easily offended. See if you can get a Xanax prescription or something.


You offered nothing to this thread except your religious childishness. I don't like what the bad man is saying, mommy. Make his stop! That's all you've done with this reply.
edit on 7/13/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Awwww, you're not a bad man at all, you're adoreable.


edit on 13-7-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

So, Jesus preaches peace while telling his followers to hunger for the war that will mark his return when he crushes their enemies. It's really a lop-sided pairing of opposites.


So is reality.

Yin eventually becomes so yin that it changes to yang, and vice-versa. Yin and yang aren't stagnant and so religions that are based on the insights of genuine mystics will be very similar underneath the cultural and temporal inflections. The scholarship of the comparative fields makes that very clear. Ever heard of Joseph Campbell?

Change is a part of reality. War becomes peace, sinner becomes saint, death becomes life, ignorance becomes enlightenment.

Enantiodromia.




This esoteric rambling isn't really doing anything to knock down the 4 points I have made, if anything you continue to prop up my position that Christianity is a War Religion because you are saying that it isn't NOT a War Religion.

If your initial position is that it isn't NOT a War Religion, we cannot ever work away from Christianity BEING a War Religion.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by jiggerj
 


The thing is that most social norms have Biblical principles behind them!


Does this imply that religion teaches morals? Or that morals are something we inherently know and utilise, but that have been hijacked and made unnatural in order to make us ashamed of our natural desires?

Take something inherent to a thing, and tell it that you are the only source of it and without you the thing is destined to hell?

If I'm good on this earth and there is a god, and he says to me "you didn't worship me, off to hades with you!" then he is no god I desire to be with. This does not mean I then disregard my morality. Nor that I am bereft of morality for it.

god, it seems to me, is the only thing that keeps people believing in god.
edit on 13-7-2013 by winofiend because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


There's nothing in the NT asserting that Christianity is about Christians taking up arms against nonChristians.

It is farcical to claim otherwise.

Twisting and distorting the New Testament record into something unreal

and then protesting THAT twisted, distorted bunch of nonsense is . . . absurd . . . as well as extremely disingenuous.

Pretending otherwise does not make it so, regardless of how often you may chant it.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by theRhenn
 


But you just did what jigger did. You said to just ignore it and let things be.

While posting about your dislike of reading about people who post only about things they dislike.

So in answer to his problem, you suggested an answer which also provided your problem, which has the same answer but which you did not follow.

If this confuses you think about what it's done to me!



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


There's nothing in the NT asserting that Christianity is about Christians taking up arms against nonChristians.

It is farcical to claim otherwise.

Twisting and distorting the New Testament record into something unreal

and then protesting THAT twisted, distorted bunch of nonsense is . . . absurd . . . as well as extremely disingenuous.

Pretending otherwise does not make it so, regardless of how often you may chant it.


And yet, you have yet to argue that WHY of my error, only that I am in error. You claim that nothing in the NT asserts Christianist is about Christians taking up arms against nonChristians, and yet, I have made the direct claim that it does. You do not counter that claim with anything more than saying "NUH UH!!"



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