Texas Capitol State Police Confiscating Tampons and Sanitary Napkins, but not Guns, for Abortion Bil

Can I compare something real quick.

Lets compare Texas and New York

Abortion

Texas: Restricts and makes it extremely hard to get an abortion
New York: Welcomes it

Gun Rights

Texas: Open to gun rights
New York: Restricts and makes it extremely hard to get a weapon


Always one side crying in one state and the other side crying in another.

Originally posted by CajunBoy
Can I compare something real quick.

Lets compare Texas and New York

Abortion

Texas: Restricts and makes it extremely hard to get an abortion
New York: Welcomes it

Gun Rights

Texas: Open to gun rights
New York: Restricts and makes it extremely hard to get a weapon


Always one side crying in one state and the other side crying in another.

And what does this have to do with heavy-handed security tactics at a state capitol, confiscating women's hygiene items, but allowing far more dangerous firearms to be brought inside? This policy was meant to humiliate and intimidate women from showing up to observe and protest underhanded legislative tactics to force through a bill that wouldn't pass in a regular legislative session.

Originally posted by Mutant
reply to post by MrInquisitive

 

Why is is that you only mention 'feminine products' and totally disregard the urine and feces?

If you bothered to read through the thread, I've addressed that. First off, I am not defending anyone bringing jars/bags of bodily waste into the capitol. Furthermore, this claim has not been documented, i.e. none of this confiscated contraband has been shown, and I would imagine that anyone who tried to bring such stuff in would get arrested as I imagine there are already health and safety ordinances about carrying around such material; the fact that there have been no reported arrests for this suggests that this claim is false. Given cell-phone camera technology and the internet, I'd imagine that if any such contraband items were found, they would be photo'ed and shown on the web, but I have seen no evidence of such. If this doesn't strike you as suspicious then your naive and/or a partisan hack.

But let's assume it's true. What would people bringing these obviously nasty and potentially dangerous items in have to do with women bringing in items for their own personal hygiene? Yeah, a few in this thread have suggested that they would take these feminine products and go soil them and then toss them at lawmakers. So why aren't tissues being confiscated, as well as all the toilet paper in the Capitol building? These items can be soiled and wadded up and thrown as well. The Capitol DPS chose to discriminate against women by humiliating and intimidating them with this confiscation policy.

Originally posted by ninepointfive

Originally posted by Eshel
The problem with this thread is that points out some ridiculous measures in an attempt to deny/hinder opposition voices over a controversial piece of legislation and it was posted in a forum that is going over the top with right wing leaning people.

It's nearly impossible now to see two points of view on this site anymore. The conservative/right leaning people in this site will simply drown out anyone with a conflicting view and beat you into the ground with the same rhetoric over and over until you just submit and go away.

I could not be more aghast at this report. I first read it on news sites yesterday and it blew my mind. Let's just say, "ok, hygiene products can be a weapon". If we are going to confiscate them for being a "potential weapon", they why are we not confiscating ACTUAL weapons?

To not see the complete craziness in this, is to ignore the truth.

Let's "deny ignorance" and start looking at things with logic and reasoning and not with so much emotion and hyperbole.

If OP wasn't such a political flamer, he'd get more constructive feedback.

And all that conservatives like yourself can do is lob ad hominem attacks. I'm not by any means saying that everyone disagreeing with is doing this; for instance, wrabbit is disagreeing with me, but is not calling me names.

Again, rule #2 of conservatives and Republicans: when you can't win on the substance of an argument, attack your opponent personally.

This is an adjunct to rule #1: when you can't win on the substance of an argument, DEFLECT, DEFLECT, DEFLECT.

Ninepointfive, by calling me a political flamer, what does that make you?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Wrabbit, you insist that I back my points up with evidence, which I have, so please have the courtesy of doing the same. Please provide evidence of protesters in the US who have thrown bodily waste in state houses, and/or court rooms.

Second show me one confirmed picture of any of these claimed jars of confiscated bodily waste at the Texas Capitol, which would give some credence to the otherwise unsubstantiated claims that this was the case.

Also explain to me if there really was fear that women would take their feminine products and soil them and throw them at the lawmakers, why all tissues, paper products, hankies, cloth rags, etc. were also confiscated, and why the toilet paper in the Capitol bathrooms were also not confiscated. Any of this material could be soiled with bodily waste and thrown at lawmakers.

If women were intent on using their tampons and maxipads as bio-hazard weapons, they would have worn them into the building and then taken them out later and toss them. The confiscated items are quite normal items carried around by women in this society.

And again, how could even such possible hazardous bio-materials be more dangerous than guns and bullets?

You conservatives love to rail about your 2nd Amendment rights, but you don't give a rip about other citizens' 4th Amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure. You can argue that the search is legitimate EXCEPT for the fact that persons with concealed gun permits go through a separate line without being searched (see the NYT article in my OP), but no way can you argue that confiscating women's toiletry items is a reasonable seizure.

Wrabbit, I also note that conspicuous in its absence in your last post, was acknowledgement of the issue of the TRAP portion of this Texas anti-abortion bill.

Also, as it seems a lot of people posting in this thread want to make it about the issue of abortion, and hence the issue of killing human lives, so I'd like to know how many of you are against capital punishment and against the use of deadly force by US forces in the various imperial adventures overseas? You have a problem with abortions here, but you seem to be down with the use of depleted uranium in Iraq, which has increased significant birth defects, spontaneous abortions and still births ten fold. So are you actually against the killing of all unborn children or just 'Muriken children?

a well-armed person who has an education re weaponry - is always a safety.

What?! Talk about mindless generalizations. Guns are always more likely to be dangerous than helpful.

reply to post by CB328


wow talk about a mindless generalization
about guns being more dangerous than body fluids.

one cannot enter a night club while carrying an open bottle of
alcohol or beer and the person manning the door has you take it
back to your car, or pour it out before entering.

the capitol police were preventing infantile outbursts of
babies throwing feces and urine or even contaminated
tampons and so they were doing a great job.

reply to post by spirited75


You can't enter a night club with a beverage because they're regulated under alcoholic beverage laws. I'm sure plenty protesters had bottles / jars of Snaple Ice Tea and oatmeal peanut granola bars, which probably all they were really confiscating. What a bunch of hype, pee and poo my arse!

reply to post by MrInquisitive

Last I checked, we're all Americans and I'm not falling for the political B.S. to be led to believing all liberals or even all democrats are my enemy. I've come to know too many and know how much we have in common between right and left. I'm sorry that sentiment isn't more common in getting beyond the party line nonsense.

-----

In this case, the Texas Senate DID pass this bill, however, due to a 2 minute time discrepancy caused by 15 minutes of unruly shouting by protesters specifically to cause that end result, it was called invalid.

Mr Dewhurst was determined to keep the vote on track. The Texas Constitution gives him the authority to jail anyone who breaks the chamber's rules of decorum, which stipulate that there can be no demonstrations or attempts to disrupt the Senate's work.

Then, during the first special session, the Senate did not take up the bill until the final day.

That allowed Fort Worth Senator Wendy Davis to use a filibuster to delay a vote. When Republicans rushed to try to pass the Bill in the session's final 15 minutes, angry protesters began shouting and screaming from the gallery.

Mr Dewhurst could only watch with frustration as a half-dozen state troopers tried to remove more than 450 people.

Source

What... did someone really think the DPS would allow another episode of Romper Room in the gallery? Not likely.

They were trying to arrest people in the first session for it. They have arrested people in this second one for chaining themselves to the gallery railing with the express purpose of disrupting the state proceedings. These are not people simply insuring their voice is heard. These are people actively and aggressively trying to disrupt and outright obstruct the business of the State of Texas. ....for a second time. Sorry, but they didn't have the right to do it the FIRST time. The have no more right to actually block the state's business as the REST of the state elected their rep's to do now.

(WMC-TV) - More than 12 people have been arrested after protesting the abortion bill.

Activists are charged with a variety of different offenses including resisting arrest and criminal trespass. State troopers found activists with jars filled with paint, urine, and feces.

Activists say they won't give up.

Source


How would this work out for your thinking if it were in California on a major bill of importance to anything you feel strongly about ...and Republican/Conservative protesters illegally and aggressively disrupted and actually blocked business from being done? I'm thinking it wouldn't be nearly as "they have the right to do this!" as it is in this case for this topic.

I think it's wrong ALL the time for the voices and actions of a few to not JUST attempt to influence by presence and protest but actually OBSTRUCT the very process at the core of our system. It's called anarchy when those basic things stop working .....even if it's for a good cause as some would see it.

-----

Now in terms of poo and urine being used before. Yes. They have been. Specific, inside State Houses? Not sure...and the cops don't need it to be that specific in historic example for specific place to take it seriously. Not by a long shot.

Unfortunately, Occupy is the group who brought it to popular usage in recently. Unfortunate as I was a member and while my camp would have been outraged at the idea of someone doing that, others embraced it and made a bad name for all in the process. The point is though.. It IS a known, previously experienced and now, expected feature of aggressive protest.

CAUGHT ON VIDEO: OCCUPY PROTESTERS DUMP CONTAINER OF HUMAN FECES, URINE IN ATM LOBBY

SoCal street vendors seek relief from blood-and-urine-spattering Occupy protesters

Protestors throw urine bombs at Denver police

Now we could just assume the protesters mean well... but..



Those are the people we'd be giving the benefit of the doubt to. No, in my opinion.

Between those people and DPS on a report like this?

Protesters Question Report on Confiscations

I believe the DPS in this particular case. Hands down. (I also notice the "troopers who saw nothing"..are unnamed as well. Convenient. lol)

I ran across a little information which may be useful.

Josh Rubin @CNNExpress

DPS is no longer confiscating unopened tampons or other the like. Say the issue was earlier some were trying to bring USED ones in. #txlege
4:08 PM - 12 Jul 2013 from Austin, TX, United States

twitchy.com...

Cindy Noland, 53, of Austin, took a reusable grocery bag full of tampons to the Capitol on Friday. Noland said she passed them out to people waiting in line, but there were no plans to throw them from the gallery.

"We would never take violent action," said Noland, an opponent of the abortion bill who was wearing a T-shirt that said "Vagilantes."

I'm sorry, what were they to be used for then?
www.elpasotimes.com...

Josh Rubin @ CNNExpress

#tampongate is over. Unopened hygiene products are now allowed. Someone trying to bring in a used product led to the earlier issue #txlege
4:20 PM - 12 Jul 2013

www.lifenews.com...

So, what's the problem? Perhaps it was all of the demonstraters, perhaps only a few, but those few spoiled it for everybody. DPS did their job.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


So you didn't provide me what I requested: one documented case of people throwing human waste in court rooms or state houses. You only provided cases of street protests, possibly in riot situations, in which this happened.

I still want to know what this has to do with a women who brings her personal hygiene effects with her. Sure, if somebody is found to have brought in a whole box of tampons or maxi-pads, I can accept that it is fair to assume that person intends to throw those things, albeit not soiled. But we're talking about women with one or two individual items having them confiscated.

People use shoes and belts to inflict bodily harm in some cases too, so why not confiscate these items too if one is worried about everyday items being used in a harmful manner.

And as I have said, why weren't all extraneous pieces of cloth and tissues also confiscated, along with the toilet paper in the stalls, because if people are intent on throwing cotton/paper products soiled with human waste, these other items are just as viable as delivery systems. The fact is that this legislation is anti-woman, and the Republican-controlled legislature that is railroading this law wanted to do everything it could to intimidate and harass women, thereby discouraging them from showing up at this "special session" of the legislature.

As for whining about protesters, I never heard any complaints by conservatives and/or Republicans regarding the astro-turf demonstrations to stop the recounting of ballots in some Florida voting precincts in 2000. It's been documented, in fact, that these demonstrations weren't even conducted by oridinary Floridians, but many were bussed-in Republican campaign workers from outside the state, including Washington D.C.

You seem to be against citizens attending their state legislatures' lawmaking sessions and expressing their displeasure with their elected officials using underhanded tactics to pass unpopular laws that couldn't pass during a normal legislative session. Ok, I get it: you're against democracy. That's fine; that's a legitimate political position. But just come out and be honest about it.

Republicans and conservatives are not for democracy and the rule of law. They want to use underhanded legislative tactics to pass laws, and heavy-handed security measures to discourage citizen involvement and participation in, and observance of government. Just be forthright about it.

Originally posted by spirited75
reply to post by CB328

 

wow talk about a mindless generalization
about guns being more dangerous than body fluids.

one cannot enter a night club while carrying an open bottle of
alcohol or beer and the person manning the door has you take it
back to your car, or pour it out before entering.

the capitol police were preventing infantile outbursts of
babies throwing feces and urine or even contaminated
tampons and so they were doing a great job.

Wow, talk about pure mindlessness. The complaint is not about confiscating actual dangerous materials, such as bodily waste or soiled items, but women's legitimate hygiene products that women commonly carry with them for personal use .

reply to post by MrInquisitive

So according to your world view, a protest tactic isn't valid, viable or a cause for concern to those it may be done against unless it's been done in precisely that setting in a very similar circumstance before? Well... I guess you won't get what you demand. We do have a runner up though.

The cost of the clean-up in the aftermath of the pro-union protests in Wisconsin's state capitol is estimated to be in the $7.5 million range, adding to the already cash-strapped state government's budget woes.

WITI-TV in Madison, WI, is reporting:

"It could cost as much as $7.5 million to repair damage protesters have done to the Capitol Building marble say officials in Madison. Fixing posters to the marble with tape and glue appears to have done the bulk of the damage.

"During testimony Thursday, a representative from the Attorney General's office said a contractor estimated it would cost $500,000 to remove all of the posters and garbage. He says it would cost $6 million to restore the marble inside of the Capitol building and another $1 million to touch up the marble outside of the building.

Source

These Statehouses are historic treasures in most, if not all cases and are protected (and rightly so) on that basis as well as order and allowing the state business to happen.

I still want to know what this has to do with a women who brings her personal hygiene effects with her. Sure, if somebody is found to have brought in a whole box of tampons or maxi-pads, I can accept that it is fair to assume that person intends to throw those things, albeit not soiled. But we're talking about women with one or two individual items having them confiscated.

Well, you understand the physics in needing a vehicle to carry urine from a rear upper story gallery deck to the floor below. Liquid doesn't fly far but with a sponge? Now...that's workable.

You're also leaving out where the Texas State Senator told the DPS to knock off the confiscation of that item in particular and called the whole idea "Boneheaded". Overall, I suppose he has a decent point. Simply taking the jars of pee and poo from the people planning to use such filthy things was probably sufficient, given the adverse secondary impact it had.

And as I have said, why weren't all extraneous pieces of cloth and tissues also confiscated, along with the toilet paper in the stalls, because if people are intent on throwing cotton/paper products soiled with human waste, these other items are just as viable as delivery systems.

You can call the DPS liars in their press statement but lets not pretend they didn't say precisely why.

AUSTIN – The Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) today received information that individuals planned to use a variety of items or props to disrupt legislative proceedings at the Texas Capitol.

Therefore for safety purposes, DPS recommended to the Texas Senate that all bags be inspected prior to allowing individuals to enter the Senate gallery, which the Texas Senate authorized.

Source: Texas DPS Official News Release

They had specific information. They noted that, clearly and it caused them to focus. We had 2 cops in camp where I was with Occupy.....at least 2 that I know of. If those people don't think they're infiltrated in their protest groups and/or heavily monitored, they're insane. That would be a good guess for the source of advance info, I'd say.

As for whining about protesters, I never heard any complaints by conservatives and/or Republicans regarding the astro-turf demonstrations to stop the recounting of ballots in some Florida voting precincts in 2000

Haven't you mentioned and beat others over the head about Off Topic? The 2000 elections? REALLY?!

You seem to be against citizens attending their state legislatures' lawmaking sessions and expressing their displeasure with their elected officials using underhanded tactics to pass unpopular laws that couldn't pass during a normal legislative session.

Now that's two blatant mischaracterizations in one breath. I didn't say anything close to that. The opposite in fact. Also, This wasn't underhanded. It's a process spelled out and permitted by the Texas State Constitution. Sorry if you don't like their process, but it's legal and proper as well as how they've chosen to do business in the State of Texas. If they don't like the methods, I'm sure they can change it, just as we can in my state.

I don't like Special Sessions..but I'm not a Texan. It's not my direct concern to criticize or approve of. It's theirs.

reply to post by MrInquisitive

Republicans and conservatives are not for democracy and the rule of law. They want to use underhanded legislative tactics to pass laws, and heavy-handed security measures to discourage citizen involvement and participation in, and observance of government. Just be forthright about it.

Wow... I had to read that twice to make sure I actually had read it correctly. Have you basically just decided to declare war on every conservative or something? I mean that's basically what that statement does.

There is nothing to be forthright about. You're off base, generalizing and making assumptions about someone you haven't met, don't know and only know some opinions of by posting you've happened to see. That would be me...and I'm an individual not "republicans and conservatives".

I watched Wendy Davis's filibuster live on TV and witnessed how Lt Governor Dewhurst abuse the power of his office time and again by claiming she was off topic which if done 3 times would invalidate her efforts.. You bet her supporters became angry and made noise, but there wasn't any acts of violence... The next time my insane conservative neighbor comes by to show me a new gun or spout out about some nonsense he heard on Fox News I'm going to pick up a box of tampons and chase him down the road... First I'll need to make sure and register them for concealed carry... Oh yeah, the closest abortion clinic to where I am in Texas is over 100 miles.. I drove a young woman that chose to end a pregnancy a couple of weeks into it.. There were two other local girls in the waiting room there also and the room was packed... May none of you ever have to deal with grief of a woman in your life whose health is harmed or life is lost due to being forced to have an illegal abortion..

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by MrInquisitive

 

Republicans and conservatives are not for democracy and the rule of law. They want to use underhanded legislative tactics to pass laws, and heavy-handed security measures to discourage citizen involvement and participation in, and observance of government. Just be forthright about it.

Wow... I had to read that twice to make sure I actually had read it correctly. Have you basically just decided to declare war on every conservative or something? I mean that's basically what that statement does.

There is nothing to be forthright about. You're off base, generalizing and making assumptions about someone you haven't met, don't know and only know some opinions of by posting you've happened to see. That would be me...and I'm an individual not "republicans and conservatives".

You're the one saying these angry citizens outraged with the shizzle the Republicans are pulling with these special legislative sessions, who show up to express their discontent are out of line, so clearly you don't care for democracy. You seem to be defending what the Texas Republicans did -- both the multiple special legislative sessions and the heavy-handed and capricious security polices that are meant to discourage and intimidate female Texans from expressing their displeasure with their elected officials. You also seem to be for waiving the 4th Amendment for these women. THAT IS BREAKING THE RULE OF LAW IN THIS COUNTRY. You have certainly said that you're all for sneaky, rules-bending special legislative sessions as well, which to me is not an endorsement of the rule of law. From what you write you are clearly a conservative and you seem to support Republican political moves. Hence my categorial statement about Republicans and conservatives, WHICH I READILY ACKNOWLEDGE IS RHETORICAL HYPERBOLE, i.e. an over-the-top statement.

Good gracious, people in this thread have accused the Texas protesters of shouting "hail Satan", have accused me as being for baby culling, and have insinuated that all the women bringing a tampon or two with them in their purses were planning on soiling them with menstrual blood and hurling them at lawmakers, so I figured I am entitled to make a gross generalization based on what (I assume are the) comments by Republicans and conservatives in this thread.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


And the connection between protesters camping out in the Wisconsin State House for days on end, and women bringing a tampon or two with them for their personal use for a one-day sitting at the Texas Capitol is what????????????????

Again, you are making the accusation that all of these women brought their personal hygiene products with them for malicious intent, yet you have not addressed why other paper and cotton items were not confiscated as well, including toilet paper and wash towels in the capitol building, because these items could be soiled and used maliciously as well. This was an intimidation campaign aimed at humiliating and discouraging women from attending a legislative session bent on taking away their health care rights.

You keep on exhibiting Rule #3 of conservatives and Republicans: cherry pick your rebuttals to the points made by your opponent, and conflate very different situations. You're equating people bringing camping gear and all sorts of food stuffs to a multi-day protest, to women bringing a tampon or two with them in their purses to sit in on a one-day legislative session.

You also haven't addressed why other materials that could be used maliciously in the same way as women's hygiene products were not also made contraband and confiscated -- even though I have asked this multiple times of you and others making the same specious argument.

Nor have you answered my question of why persons with concealed weapons permits were allowed to go through a separate security check point and not put through the same search of their persons and effects as the other people attempting to enter the Texas state house (again, this is discussed in the NYT article in my OP). This is a clear double standard and violation of the Equal Protection Clause of federal statutes, as well as a clear violation of the 4th Amendment.

reply to post by MrInquisitive

You're the one saying these angry citizens outraged with the shizzle the Republicans are pulling with these special legislative sessions, who show up to express their discontent are out of line, so clearly you don't care for democracy.

Please stop outright misrepresenting what I've said. It's not even close enough to call accidental. What I've said was

"I think it's wrong ALL the time for the voices and actions of a few to not JUST attempt to influence by presence and protest but actually OBSTRUCT the very process at the core of our system. It's called anarchy when those basic things stop working .....even if it's for a good cause as some would see it. " Source

Influence? Yes. Actually shut down and outright obstruct the entire process of State Government by illegal means of disrupting the process ..specifically to disqualify a legitimate piece of state legislation under vote at the time? No. That isn't protesting. That's Sabotaging. Protest is legal, protected and required of a free people. Sabotaging ought to carry incarceration, to be honest about it. This method and intent for the end result is what is wrong. According to Texas, it's a criminal offense, too.

You seem to be defending what the Texas Republicans did -- both the multiple special legislative sessions and the heavy-handed and capricious security polices that are meant to discourage and intimidate female Texans from expressing their displeasure with their elected officials.

On #1. I said this before. I'll say it just once more. THIS IS WHAT THE TEXAS STATE CONSTITUTION ALLOWS. This is legal, proper and how the State of Texas works. It's not underhanded, illegal, sneaky or otherwise ODD. It's how TEXAS WORKS. Can you understand that another state has a system which you may not like? (If by some odd chance you DO live there ..and how do I know? ... I'd ask what you're doing to change this feature and option within Texas State Law.)

It's not up to us to sit in judgement of what the People of the State of Texas have deemed fit for THEIR Statehouse and State Government. I'm not defending it because it's not mine to defend.

In fact, TWICE NOW I have said, in no vague terms whatsoever, I DO NOT LIKE OR APPROVE OF Special Sessions. However, again, I'm not IN Texas. It's not for me to approve of their way of handling THEIR Government.

On #2 I love how you just keep twisting that around to fit your own agenda. THE TEXAS STATE POLICE GOT INFORMATION THAT THESE WOULD BE USED AS PROTEST DEVICES. I linked directly to their site and their statement in my last post. Again, PLEASE stop misrepresenting what I am saying. You're doing it repeatedly.

Their security measures are theirs to decide based on their knowledge of what threat might be around. Given 18+ jars of crap and piss they DID find? They had EVERY reason to be watchful.

However, they STOPPED the confiscation of the maxi-pads and tampons by order of the Senate, who called it boneheaded. THAT you LEAVE OUT. Now that wouldn't be political for not mentioning the fact this wasn't even happening the full time, would it?

and have insinuated that all the women bringing a tampon or two with them in their purses were planning on soiling them with menstrual blood and hurling them at lawmakers

No. I have never insinuated that. I'm not a member of the Department of Public Safety or their intelligence unit. I have NO idea what information they got ahead of time. How specific it was or how credible it may have been. I just know, by their official statement, they did receive that information and they were acting in accordance to it when Senators curtailed their actions.

I also know, by past experience and seeing it happen in other protests, Feces, Urine, Saliva, Sperm, Blood and even animal body parts themselves can and have been hurled, slapped and smeared upon the public targets of protest. Coupled with the fact the statement indicates advanced knowledge of this specific type of threat? It's relating what their position is, not defending it. Again, it's not mine to defend and seems clear enough not to require a defense, anyway.

Have a good evening though.. Enough partisan bickering for me, for one night. This stuff gives me a headache anymore. Not the debating. I love debate. The mindless loyalty to party and blind hatred of the other side as if they're all members of a borg collective with identical thoughts and outlooks or something. Really. We all need to get beyond this divisive nonsense. It's killing our country while no one wins the side battles anyway.

Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by Maslo
There are no brainwaves before 20 weeks.

Incorrect.

Fetal brains starts firing (first neuron responses) at approx 6 weeks.

Cerebrum begins development between 8-10 weeks.

First measurable EEG's can be detected around 12 weeks.

www.cirp.org...

Functional maturity of the cerebral cortex is suggested by fetal and a neonatal electroencephalographic patterns, studies of cerebral metabolism, and the behavioral development of neonates. First, intermittent electroencephalograpic bursts in both cerebral hemispheres are first seen at 20 weeks gestation; they become sustained at 22 weeks and bilaterally synchronous at 26 to 27 weeks.39 By 30 weeks, the distinction between wakefulness and sleep can be made on the basis of electroencephalo- graphic patterns.39,40

Not every electrical activity = brainwaves. Brainwaves must be sufficiently organised. Randomly firing neurons wont produce sentience.

Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by Maslo
There are no brainwaves before 20 weeks.

Incorrect.

Fetal brains starts firing (first neuron responses) at approx 6 weeks.

Cerebrum begins development between 8-10 weeks.

First measurable EEG's can be detected around 12 weeks.

www.cirp.org...

Functional maturity of the cerebral cortex is suggested by fetal and a neonatal electroencephalographic patterns, studies of cerebral metabolism, and the behavioral development of neonates. First, intermittent electroencephalograpic bursts in both cerebral hemispheres are first seen at 20 weeks gestation; they become sustained at 22 weeks and bilaterally synchronous at 26 to 27 weeks.39 By 30 weeks, the distinction between wakefulness and sleep can be made on the basis of electroencephalo- graphic patterns.39,40

Not every electrical activity = brainwaves. Brainwaves must be sufficiently organised. Randomly firing neurons wont produce sentience.

edit on 15/7/13 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

Your original post stated nothing about functional (or mature) brainwaves.

I have left it up for you to analyse yourself.

You stated 'no brainwaves' which is false.