Police Shoot Firefighter In Parking Lot After Mistaking Wallet For Gun

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

Yes it happens, I agree. But it seems like we let those cases cloud our judgement when looking into cases where the person may have brought it on themselves.

Am I the only one that thinks this was just an attempt at "death by cop" by a man that didn't have the balls to do it himself?

I remember Black Friday 2011 where a 70+ yr old man in handcuffs over protecting his grandson getting his feet kicked out from under him and smashing his face on a walmart floor in Buckeye Az. No resistance there. Just a roided out law dog. A 100,000+ more examples on youtube. Its not clouded judgement. Its good cops not stopping the bad ones before they get the better than you power mindset. Power corrupts left unchecked. And the accountability speaks for itself.

Originally posted by EA006
reply to post by GoldenRuled

 

I heard that the wallet wasn't even loaded.

He probably had an unpaid credit card there, who knows!

Originally posted by sheepslayer247

His wife called the cops, saying that he had a gun and was suicidal! If someone jumped out of their car in such a manner and you were told he had a gun...what would you do?

what would you do?

To server and protect... them, before i protect myself.. as it used to be.

That's why they get training, or used to get.

Its easy to be an armchair critic after the fact, but in a real life situation...you would have pulled the trigger as well.

No i would not, first of all, i would not get so close as to be an easy hit, if i have already been notified that he may have a gun, why would i get close to a dangerous, possibly unstable man?

Secondly, i would take proper measures, i would ask him, from far away, to put his hands up, then slowly lay down on the floor, all the while pointing my gun at him, all the while using my training to keep an eye on my surroundings, just in case someone else comes up behind or close to me while i'm busy here, then, once he's on the ground, i would either arrest him, or if i feel i'm not up to the task, i would ask for backup..

See? that was easy, it used to be like that, but nowadays, they just go for the shot, no matter what.

ETA: And all due respect, pulling the Treyvon Martin issue into this is one helluva derp...is it not?

Agreed

Looks like he coudnt take it anymore , his wife called the cops , now the cops approaching the car could be the last drop of water that overflowed the bucked.

If you would be a firefighter and living a life of service and you are depressed and cops with their handguns pulled would walk towards you and shout at you like you are a crimminal, wouldnt that be the last drop ?

I can understand him but the cops also , i have seen numerous video's of people aiming there cell phones or other useless materials at the cops to pretend it is a firearm , you cant bluff in this game , as a cop you have to make a choice , and the small amount of time in wich you need to make such a decision doesnt do good for finding the best outcome.

I hope he gets better , we all make mistakes in life , doesnt mean we have to pay for it with our life , if it would be the world should be empty.

TheGreazel.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

What are you talking about? The cops claim that the guy drew his wallet in an "aggressive stance." If that's enough to justify shooting someone, we're screwed. Furthermore, if this is okay, how is Trayvon Martin's death even a talking point?

I mean, you're basically saying that we can shoot anyone on suspicion alone. That is simply not okay. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior.

"HURP DURP I THOUGHT HE HAD A GUN SO MY PIG BRAIN TOLD ME TO SHOOT HIM WITHOUT ANY CONFIRMATION!!!!! OINK OINK OINK, I THINK I'LL GO SHOOT SOME PEOPLE AT THE DONUT SHOP NEXT. HURP DURP, IT'S ACCEPTABLE BECAUSE I'M ABOVE THE LAW!!."

His wife called the cops, saying that he had a gun and was suicidal! If someone jumped out of their car in such a manner and you were told he had a gun...what would you do?

Its easy to be an armchair critic after the fact, but in a real life situation...you would have pulled the trigger as well.

ETA: And all due respect, pulling the Treyvon Martin issue into this is one helluva derp...is it not? Completely different situation and its sad that has to be pulled out in what is supposed to be an intelligent discussion.

edit on 12-7-2013 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)

how about have cops with some FORTITUDE?

1. is it a gun?
2. is it being pointed at someone?

this should happen BEFORE a weapon is unholstered.

cops have become HUGE cowards

Sounds like the guy who used his wallet to make it look like a gun, contemplated he would be shot, hence suicide by cop. I wouldn't hold the cop responsible for his actions.

According to the conversations with his wife before the incident, it sounded like he wanted to commit suicide and used the cops to do it. He intentionally held the wallet in a manner that could easily be mistaken for a gun.

Your'e risking your life everyday as a police officer. Cops sometimes only have a split second to evaluate a situation, and in this case, this guy made the cop fear for his life. If he would have been shot while reaching into his pocket, than I think the cop would have been wrong to shoot him. This incident is unfortunate, but to not follow a command by police officer when they're pointing a gun at you, is extremely poor judgement.

I'm sure this idiot who decided to have the cop take his life, never considered the torment this cop will have to live with knowing he killed an unarmed man. If someone is that unhappy with their life, don't leave this life and create a life of torment for a complete stranger.

I

These police that are so triger happy, need to be brought to justice. There is no excuse for this kind of reaction, and if this was the norm, everyone that got pulled over for speeding, would be going to the morgue next. As that requires you to get your wallet out, and present ID. WTF The justice dept should make examples out of these police, so the next cop, will absolutely know what will happen if he/she shoots first before thinking about the consequences of their actions.

I have a hard time believing that people are saying something to the effect of it was suicide by cop.

What we have is zero video evidence. Zip, nada, nothing. What we do have is a second-hand hearsay report from someone who was not even at the scene. On the believability scale of 0 to 100%, I give the report a 10% chance of being wholly factual.

Our police as a whole are simply not trustworthy. The problem is compounded many times over with dirty cops in positions of management.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


SheepSlayer what you say is true to a point! The fact that police training is the real cause of this is not being discussed. The police have been trained to make snap decisions in questionable circumstances. This training is bad and wrong. This has caused police to be making decisions before they can clearly know what is going on. The fact that police are trained to believe that if they face any threat to use violence to stop that perceived threat ... so the officer is safe ....... This couldn't be more wrong in a free society where police are there to protect citizens. That training caused this killing.

While no ones life is more important than another's to me (in general) .... However, a policeman should protect and serve the public even if that means that police will be killed or beaten...... on the other hand it is usually (now) that it is the police who are doing the beating and killing......

reply to post by WeRpeons


Then don't be a cop.... being a policeman is a VOLUNTARY job..... that is part of the problem is that police protect themselves first when they hired on to do a dangerous job....... why should the public be put in danger for training that makes police create killings and beatings?

Cops over and over, mistake anything black for a gun. My advise: orange is the new black. Get an orange wallet, umbrella, cell phone, glasses case, wrap your pepper spray can with hunter-orange tape, etc, etc, etc.

I don't even use a wallet - money goes in the pocket, and all my plastic is held together in a stack by a bright yellow rubber band.

To paraphrase ZZ Top:

Orange shoes
Orange suit
Orange hat
Cadillac

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
Seriously, when will pigs start being held accountable for their actions

I am to the point where I want an eye for an eye type punishment for cops.
IE - If they shoot someone 'because they are scared for their own safety'* - they get lined up and shot themselves.

Right now they know that that badge is a license to kill without fear of significant punishment. We as a society must demand significant punishment.

*I have heard this line too many times. I really don't want an abject coward pretending his job is to protect me.

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


Dude.. without cops who could steal your hard earned money via insane fines. I got a 200 dollar ticket because I was going to be late for work and went 10 over. The cop made me late and then basically took my days pay.

It was fun.. oh and I also almost lost my license for forgetting a court date for not wearing my seat belt. I ran down to the court the same day the warrant was to be issued ad just made it.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
You may want to read into this a bit more. There is a lot more to this story than just a guy getting shot because of his wallet.

True but the point of the whole story was the p-poor job the law did of assessing the situation when they arrived on the scene. And by extension reacted incompetently. Soemthing that has become completely acceptable by department nationwide. The amount of money he had should have no bearing on anything. he broke a law meant to control unconstitutionally a long time ago. Irrelevant unless you can give a logical reason otherwise.
I know good cops. I majored in law in college.Older bro is Tx DPS. I am not biased. I'm sick of hearing that's the way it is.

reply to post by GoldenRuled


I guess what it means is that when you are confronted by the police..............fall to the ground immediately and put your hands behind your back.

Then don't be a cop.... being a policeman is a VOLUNTARY job..... that is part of the problem is that police protect themselves first when they hired on to do a dangerous job....... why should the public be put in danger for training that makes police create killings and beatings?

reply to post by fnpmitchreturns


Every job is voluntary, but not every job has a dangerous possibility of losing your life. Just because police officers, firefighters and rescue crews sign on knowing the dangers, doesn't mean they shouldn't defend or protect themselves. I think many of us have watched police shows or movies involving a police chase and arrests. To ignore and not follow a police officers commands when they have their guns drawn, is just plain STUPID.

Every cop goes through training to help identify criminals from innocent people not armed with a weapon. Accidents happen, and unfortunately they can turn deadly. You're ignoring the fact that this man purposely held his wallet in a manner that made it look like he was holding a fire arm. It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, and say the cop shouldn't have fired his weapon after realizing the guy was holding a wallet. This guy was playing with fire and got burned. There was no need to even reach for anything when the cop told him to show his hands.

I can agree there has been many times where police officers have crossed over the line, but in this case, the guy who pretended he was aiming a gun at the police was wrong and he paid a hard price.

Originally posted by Domo1
It certainly sounds like the man tried to go for suicide by cop. I would imagine that being a first responder he wouldn't want to use an actual gun and risk hurting an innocent bystander or police officer, but was aware that if he presented his wallet as if it were a gun the police would be forced to shoot him.

if i didn't know you were a LEO
i'd assume you were outright "Sane", stinking drunk, or otherwise intoxicated
to share such a "brilliant insight"

then again both conditions are not mutually exclusive ...

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by Domo1

 

Well said. I'll let that explanation stand as I don't think I could do better.

ROFL! somebody's taking crazy pills
and slipped TKDRL a mikey to boot.

reply to post by WeRpeons

I can agree there has been many times where police officers have crossed over the line, but in this case, the guy who pretended he was aiming a gun at the police was wrong and he paid a hard price.

What exactly does "pretending to aim a gun" mean? In this case it meant pulling out his wallet. Wallets and cell phones are not guns.

CJ

Wow, all I can really say is I need more events like this to occur.


What happened from my perspective? An ill-trained police officer who obviously never got trained in basic police psuedopsychology.


Death by cop is very real, in fact if you get a phone call from someone claiming another person is suicidal, usually the police officer should have the wits to know that the "suspect" is looking to get shot preferably by a cop. These type of people looking for suicide will make brash movements on purpose, now if you're at a traffic stop and the person starts making sudden movements, you're justified to use force.


This guy wasn't even driving, was sitting parked in the shade, just because one person claims you're suicidal doesn't mean anything, they're supposed to talk to you and give you a mental health evaluation, not shoot you.

Just another case of good cop , dumb cop.

Yep folks, this is why mace/pepperspray/tazers hurt and work, why don't they just teach police officers some basic self-defense...

reply to post by ColoradoJens

What exactly does "pretending to aim a gun" mean?

It means he is a terrorist at minimum thanks to the recent laws and interpretation. Grade school kids are getting arrested for using their hand in a gun like manner, drawing a gun or eating a pop tart into the shape of gun.