The Second "incarnation" of Christ?

It is said that Jesus will return in the flesh... Yet not every "Christian" agrees with this theory...

Since no one actually knows what Jesus looked like... another question arises... How would we recognise him when he returned?

The usual answer is that he will be the one coming from the clouds... floating down from heaven, or at least that is the basic imagery we are given...

Christ's return will be literal and real. It's in the Bible, Acts 1:10-11, TLB. "It was not long afterwards that He rose into the sky and disappeared into a cloud, leaving them staring after Him. As they were straining their eyes for another glimpse, suddenly two white-robed men were standing there among them, and said, 'Men of Galilee, why are you standing here staring at the sky? Jesus has gone away to heaven, and some day, just as He went, He will return!'"

How will Jesus come again? It's in the Bible, Luke 21:27, NIV. "At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

How many will see Him when He comes? It's in the Bible, Revelation 1:7, NIV. "Look, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of Him."

What will we see and hear when He comes? It's in the Bible, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, NIV. "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

How visible is His coming to be? It's in the Bible, Matthew 24:27, NIV. "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

www.bibleinfo.com...

IF one is to assume this is a fairy tale based on the general laws that govern the universe... Meaning its highly unlikely that we will ever see a man floating down from the clouds, or anyone being "taken up with God" as it is written... we must also assume that Jesus will be reborn IF he actually returns in the flesh

Most of Those of the Christian Faith deny reincarnation could possibly exist...

But IF Jesus returns in the flesh...

Isn't that in fact... The reincarnation of Jesus?

reply to post by Akragon

The New Testament tells us
a) that Christ will return
b) that he will not return "in the flesh".
In fact we are specifically warned (e.g. Matthew ch24) that anyone "in the flesh" claiming to be the returned Christ is a fake, by definition, and must be avoided.

There are two logical possibilities;
You believe what the New Testament says, or you don't.
If you believe what it says, then Christ will not return in a fresh "incarnation".
If you don't believe what it says, you have no rational reason to suppose that he will return at all.
Either way, returning "in the flesh" is not an option.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Akragon

 

The New Testament tells us
a) that Christ will return
b) that he will not return "in the flesh".
In fact we are specifically warned (e.g. Matthew ch24) that anyone "in the flesh" claiming to be the returned Christ is a fake, by definition, and must be avoided.

There are two logical possibilities;
You believe what the New Testament says, or you don't.
If you believe what it says, then Christ will not return in a fresh "incarnation".
If you don't believe what it says, you have no rational reason to suppose that he will return at all.
Either way, returning "in the flesh" is not an option.

I see...

In Acts 1, did he not return in the flesh?

3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

And was it not Thomas who poked him in his side to prove he was real?

IF he did it before, why could he not return in the flesh once again?

I highly doubt if his name will be Jesus if he comes. Anyone with that name would be on the governments terrorist list as a threat to society. Gods coming as a fat bald guy with smelly feet this time, nobody will know him before he is ready with his training. He's probably already been doped up with prozac and antipsychotic medicines for years. He's probably texting people on facebook as I type.

reply to post by Akragon

Firstly, the concept of "return" refers to returning after the departure of Acts ch1.
That's why the angel says that "this same Jesus" will return "in the same way that you saw him go"- Acts ch1 v11. Note that last phrase, which helps to refute the idea of "fresh birth".

Secondly, the body of the "resurrection appearances" was not a new and differemt body- in other words, no kind of "re-incarnation". It was the same body in which he had been buried. That is the point of resurrection.
Furthermore, he would not need a new body in order to return, because he still has the body in which he was resurrected.

Thirdly; whether he could return in a new birth is quite beside the point if he has specifically told us that he won't.
He has told us to regard as a fake and a deceiver anyone presenting himself in that form and claiming to be the returned Christ; Matthew ch24 vv23-26

reply to post by DISRAELI

He has told us to regard as a fake and a deceiver anyone presenting himself in that form and claiming to be the returned Christ; Matthew ch24 vv23-26

You don't think that's a bit of a stretch?

It says nothing about returning in the flesh or anything about flesh in those verses...

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

reply to post by Akragon

The intention is clear, because he then goes on to contrast this kind of claim with the real way in which he can be expected to return; like a flash of lightning (ie, suddenly, and known to everyone at the same time), and backed with all the power of God- "on the clouds of heaven".

If he came as a "fresh birth", he would a) not be coming in the way he himself predicted, and b) not be able to make himself known except in the way which he has described as indicating a fake.
It would be rather pointless.

We are left with the original dilemma.
We either believe what he said, or we don't.
If you don't, then you should not be expecting him to return in any manner.

reply to post by DISRAELI


My personal thoughts on the matter is that HE returns every time someone realises they are a child of God...

Now IF we take these idea's as literal... there is something called "the cloud" on the internet...

Perhaps that might be what he meant?

Which corresponds with the idea that The internet might have been predicted by Jesus?

Whatcha think?

reply to post by Akragon

That is not what the New Testament describes.
And if he had already returned, then we would now be experiencing the day of judgement (Matthew ch24 vv30-31).
I think we would have noticed.

reply to post by DISRAELI


So you are quite content with believing he will come in the clouds literally?

Even though that is not possible... perhaps I misunderstood?

What if holograms are somehow used in a mass deception about the second coming?

its honestly the only way I could imagine something like what is described happening...

reply to post by Akragon

I have already paraphrased "coming on the clouds" as "coming backed by all the power of God".

reply to post by DISRAELI


Do you think that it'll be another "pillar of fire" like in the Old Testament? Seems like an alien ship landing is more in line for our times. Some giant, god like being stepping out on the white house lawn?

Would the military stand down?

reply to post by windword


I would imagine he is suggesting he will just appear somewhere... and perhaps his presence will be felt around the world...

Its a little more plausible then a man floating down from the sky...

reply to post by windword

If God was putting out his power in full strength, that would be enough in itself to disable all human power.
I don't predict what the event would look like.
The end of Revelation portrays the world being wound up ("earth and sky fled away"), which would be equally valid in any era.

I think he is starting to return at this very moment, but not in any kind of biblical way. Like you have stated before Akragon, since the internet was invented, we have had more access to more information than ever before, and it is mostly unhindered at this point.

I think this access to information and ability to share ideas with others is waking people up and making us more and more aware of our surroundings.

I think this awareness will eventually lead to a "spiritual awakening" all across the world, where people will begin to realize what our true place in the universe is.

Just as John came in the power and spirit of Elijah, we will also come in the power and spirit of Jesus, meaning his second coming is actually within us. We will remember who we are and where we are going and that we are truly free, even if we are in shackles on this planet.

I think there is more than just one "Jesus" on Earth at this moment, and I think that many of them may not even realize it yet, but they will eventually.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I see from my "replies" feature that this was a reply to my post.
So I'll just repeat what I said to Akragon;
The options are between believing the Bible and not believing the Bible.
If you believe the Bible, you should expect jesus to return in the Biblical way.
If you don't believe in the Bible, you have no reason for expecting him to return at all. It's a Biblical idea.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Akragon

 

The New Testament tells us
a) that Christ will return
b) that he will not return "in the flesh".
In fact we are specifically warned (e.g. Matthew ch24) that anyone "in the flesh" claiming to be the returned Christ is a fake, by definition, and must be avoided.

That's not to say he won't return in flesh. Only that he won't make open claims to the world about it. He could very well be in the flesh... could be in this website even.

reply to post by Akragon


I think Jesus already came, after WWII, and the two big clouds ie: Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The whole world saw, and it was unlike anything since the beginning. They were the two witnesses, in my opinion.

Joel 2:28-32
I Will Pour Out My Spirit
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

If Jesus was to reincarnate, in singularity, who would he be? My vote, Sting!

It was midnight, midnight at noon
Everyone talked in rhyme
Everyone saw the big clock ticking
Nobody knew, nobody knew the time
Elegant debutantes smiled
Everyone fought for dimes
Newspapers screamed for blood
It was the best of times

Every place around the world it seemed the same
Can't hear the rhythm for the drums

Everybody wants to look the other way
When something wicked this way comes

Sometimes they tie a thief to the tree
Sometimes I stare
Sometimes it's me

Everyone told the truth
All that we heard were lies
A pope claimed that he'd been wrong in the past
This was a big surprise

Everyone fell in love
A cardinal's wife was jailed
The government saved a dying planet
When popular icons failed

Every place around the world it seemed the same
Can't hear the rhythm for the drums
Everybody wants to look the other way
When something wicked this way comes

Sometimes they tie a thief to the tree
Sometimes I stare
Sometimes it's me
Sometimes I stare
Sometimes it's me

www.metrolyrics.com...

reply to post by BlueMule

I refer you to Matthew ch24 vv23-27, which show that instead of coming in that way, he would come in a completely different way.
"Like a flash of lightning" "On the clouds of heaven". We've already been through all that on this thread.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Actually it wasn't a reply to you, I was replying to the OP, so I don't know how that happened. Weird.

So there's no middle ground with you? What if his second coming is true, but Christianity created their own version of it, which is considered the biblical version?

They created their own version of Jesus with Paul, so I wouldn't put it past them to do the same with his second coming.

I think there could be many possibilities for what this second coming could be. I think it's possible that his second coming could be referencing reincarnation, where his second coming is actually our rebirth after we die.

When Jesus spoke about himself or the Father, he was referencing consciousness in general, and every eye will witness their own rebirth, so I think that's a possibility too. It may have a layered meaning as well.