I predict Zimmerman WILL be found guilty of Manslaughter. Here is why:

The bottom line is that it has been proven that Zimmerman followed Trayvon. You can not couch that in terms of : "Oh he was just tracking him" "Oh, he was just seeing where he was going" "He was just looking for a street name or an address".

The evidence shows different. It was proven today in closing arguments when Zimmerman went through his walk through that he knew the name of the street. He stated it, it is on a recording. You cannot reconcile that with his previous nor his subsequent statements. He knew the name of the street and slipped and stated so.

On the bs excuse he was looking for an address: Seriously, you are going to ask 6 intelligent women to buy the story he was looking for an address, while he was directly in front of one.

Not. Gonna. Fly.

How did Trayvon reach for his gun when it has been clearly demonstrated that the gun was on his right backside?? Zimmerman comes up with this incredulous story that his shirt and jacket lifted up and Trayvon saw the weapon he was laying on?? How would you have even come to that conclusion in the heat of a battle?? So he observed Trayvon see his rebolver?? That was his story from the get.

His knees were under his armpits. Oh really?? How did Zimmerman reach for the gun?? That was demonstrated today.

It was a concocted story from the beginning.

It was re-emphasized today how Zimmerman slipped up and said, "When I went towards him..." then he switched up real quick when he caught himself.

Do NOT think that was lost on the jury. They get it!!

It has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Zimmerman followed and approached Trayvon. What happened after that will be a discussion for years to come. I don't know who hit who first but I would venture a guess that Trayvon felt threatened by Zimmerman and didn't know what his trip was.

Trayvon had a right to stand his ground. My kids have been taught to protect themselves.

Getting pummeled in a fist fight is no reason to pull a gun. NONE. It was proven by the defense's own witness that Zimmerman's head was not being slammed into the ground but more likely hit the ground as a result of punches to his melon.

Do NOT underestimate these women. They saw the performances by the defendant's close friends and family, they know what they have invested here. And don't think for one minute that they haven't asked themselves the same question, "Would I lie to help my son, nephew, best friend." Every mother will tell you that they would, especially in a case such as this.

I have said it. I go on record.

I can get in your face, and call you every name under the sun. That doesn't make me an aggressor.

I can follow you from a store to a parking lot and stand right next to your door while you get in the car. That doesn't make me an aggressor. A little creepy, maybe, but not an aggressor.

If you are in my neighborhood, even if you live in it, and I don't know you, I can ask you what you're doing in my neighborhood, and you don't have to answer me, but I can certainly ask. If I think you're doing something sneaky or suspicious, I can follow you in the event that you commit a crime, which makes me an eye witness, and that is perfectly legal.

The moment you put your hands (or anything else) on me, YOU are the aggressor, PERIOD. It doesn't matter how mad I make you, how much you think I'm a creep, how much I annoy you, how many verbal threats I make. There is nothing illegal about any of it, and it is not a felony. Do you know how many times police are called over verbal threats, and tell the victim "There is nothing we can do until they DO something..." It happens ALL the time, just call the non-emergency line at your police department and find out yourself. They will take a report so that it's on record just in case something does actually happen, but there is no action they can take because no laws were broken.

In Florida, stand your ground means that if you are the victim of a FELONY, of any kind, especially those that cause bodily harm or threaten life or property, you have the RIGHT to defend yourself with deadly force. That is the law, like it or not.

It's highly doubtful that Zimmerman struck Trayvon first, I just don't see that happening based on everything heard in the case. Again, even if Zimmerman got out of his car, and stayed 5 feet behind Trayvon the entire time, it doesn't make him the aggressor. It's the person who commits the felony against someone else that is the aggressor and entitles the victim to self-defense.

Like it or not, that's the way it works and the way the law states it. The burden of truth is on the prosecution to prove BEYOND a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman committed murder, and that is not going to happen, because there is tons of doubt here. Even manslaughter is a stretch because of the amount of doubt, and it only takes one juror's doubt to hang the jury.

I think he is acquitted, or found guilty of manslaughter MAYBE but definitely not murder in the second.

~Namaste

reply to post by GrantedBail


What if when he was tackled to the ground, the gun shifted to his side? Then everything Zimmerman said can be explained.

I agree GB, he wanted to play cop so bad I think he went a bit far. If I remember, he was told not to approach the "suspect", but he did. What happened, happened, but it did not need to happen. Trayvon may have just been minding his own business, but was confronted by Mr. Zimmerman, he probably felt threatened, and reacted accordingly. Murder 2 maybe, Man 1 probably.

You may be right regardless of guilt or innocence there is too much political pressure to come up with some kind of punishment. The judge has already mentioned manslaughter from what I have heard but I am not in country so I have only read a few things around here and the internet. www.guardian.co.uk...
QUOTE:
A Florida judge has ruled that Trayvon Martin's cellphone texts on fighting and a defense animation depicting the fight between him and George Zimmerman will not be introduced as evidence at Zimmerman's trial.

Judge Debra Nelson made her ruling Wednesday, a day after she heard arguments on the matter. END QUOTE:

“A fix is in from the administration to find Zimmerman guilty regardless of what it takes,”

Seems to be a common thought by some bloggers

usnews.nbcnews.com...
QUOTE:
Prosecutors also wanted to include a charge of murder in the third degree with child abuse as the underlying felony – and defense attorney Don West called that “outrageous.”

"Just when I thought this case couldn't get any more bizarre, the state is seeking third-degree murder charges based on child abuse?" West said.

"It's just hard for me to imagine that the court could take this seriously," he added. END QUOTE: The court dismissed the child abuse charge...

So IMO regardless of the verdict there will be some very unhappy people on both sides... Innocent, watch the town burn.... guilty of a lessor charge and maybe quell the unrest........ may have more of an effect on the final decision that it should? I dunno...... will justice be served, is my only question?

From what I saw by catching a few minutes of CNN during lunch breaks:

The forensics showed that there were no wounds on Martin other than gunshot. There were wounds on Zimmerman where he was attacked. Forensics also showed that Martin's clothes were hainging away from his body when he was shot. Even the prosecution seemed to concede that Martin was over Zimmerman when he was shot. If I were on the jury, self defense would be very easy for me to believe. I've mentioned this before: If George Zimmerman were a cop, any prosecuter in the country would have taken one look at his wounds and called it a justified shooting. Fox, CNN, and MSNBC would have all agreed, and it might have gotten 5 minutes of air time.

Now, the prosecution is asking that the jury be able to convict on lesser charges. If I'm on the jury, I'm thinking, "Look, you've had months to prepare your case. You came here telling me this was murder, and now you're saying it may have been something else? There is a man's life at stake here. Get your act together, figure out what crime you think he committed, and put him on trial for that. Don't ask me to guess what his crime was."

On the other hand, from what I've seen of the trial, I don't think the prosecuter's heart was really into getting a conviction. I guess if the jury is allowed to consider lesser charges and still acquits, that would mean that FL couldn't come back and try to charge Zimmerman on those lesser charges because of double jeopordy. I'm not really sure how that works, perhaps a more legal-minded ATS member can set that straight.

reply to post by GrantedBail


So....bottom line is that you think he is guilty, regardless if the jury finds that he is not.

You must be watching Nancy Grace.

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
I can get in your face, and call you every name under the sun. That doesn't make me an aggressor.

I can follow you from a store to a parking lot and stand right next to your door while you get in the car. That doesn't make me an aggressor. A little creepy, maybe, but not an aggressor.

If you are in my neighborhood, even if you live in it, and I don't know you, I can ask you what you're doing in my neighborhood, and you don't have to answer me, but I can certainly ask. If I think you're doing something sneaky or suspicious, I can follow you in the event that you commit a crime, which makes me an eye witness, and that is perfectly legal.

The moment you put your hands (or anything else) on me, YOU are the aggressor, PERIOD. It doesn't matter how mad I make you, how much you think I'm a creep, how much I annoy you, how many verbal threats I make. There is nothing illegal about any of it, and it is not a felony. Do you know how many times police are called over verbal threats, and tell the victim "There is nothing we can do until they DO something..." It happens ALL the time, just call the non-emergency line at your police department and find out yourself. They will take a report so that it's on record just in case something does actually happen, but there is no action they can take because no laws were broken.

In Florida, stand your ground means that if you are the victim of a FELONY, of any kind, especially those that cause bodily harm or threaten life or property, you have the RIGHT to defend yourself with deadly force. That is the law, like it or not.

It's highly doubtful that Zimmerman struck Trayvon first, I just don't see that happening based on everything heard in the case. Again, even if Zimmerman got out of his car, and stayed 5 feet behind Trayvon the entire time, it doesn't make him the aggressor. It's the person who commits the felony against someone else that is the aggressor and entitles the victim to self-defense.

Like it or not, that's the way it works and the way the law states it. The burden of truth is on the prosecution to prove BEYOND a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman committed murder, and that is not going to happen, because there is tons of doubt here. Even manslaughter is a stretch because of the amount of doubt, and it only takes one juror's doubt to hang the jury.

I think he is acquitted, or found guilty of manslaughter MAYBE but definitely not murder in the second.

~Namaste

Not sure why there is two of this thread, but this is what I was trying to convey in my reply in the other thread, only this is better written. Regardless of what any of you want to think, Florida law puts the burden of proof on the state and the prosecution, not on the defense to prove innocence. Based on all the evidence presented, it can be determine that Zimmerman was at the losing end of a physical altercation and Martin was at the losing end of a gun. It doesn't really matter how either participant arrived to the point of the confrontation because neither one got there illegally. No one denies that Zimmerman pulled the trigger on Martin, but Zimmerman suffered visible trauma to his head and Martin suffered only a gun shot wound. Any reasonable person would determine that a dead man is in no way capable of inflicting physical injuries to another person, so likely, Martin physically engaged Zimmerman before he was shot. Whether anyone believes that being victim of a physical assault justifies you to use deadly force, Florida law does. George Zimmerman, without a doubt, killed Trayvon Martin, but I don't think he is guilty of second degree murder in Florida. Laws are different from state to state. Here in Illinois, I could almost see him being charged with first degree murder with a decent chance of conviction. Then again, here, concealed carry is still illegal and was at that time and the law here is to flee confrontation and seek help, not stand your ground.

He will be found guilty of manslaughter due to only one reason...the OJ effect....

The jury will not let him go without some verdict due to their fears of repercussion by the black community.

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