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Christian street preacher physically attacked by homosexuals (video)

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posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by DeadSeraph
This has NOTHING to do with gays vs christians in my mind. It has to do with civil liberties and double standards. The same measuring stick could be applied to any belief no matter how repugnant. Either we live in a free country where we are free to speak our minds without being physically assaulted, or we don't.

The fact so many of you are willing to make excuses for a gross violation of those rights speaks volumes about the PC agenda.


This is nothing to do with Christianity vs homosexuality in my mind either. I have provided various other scenarios where this happens.

I have repeatedly said I do not condone it, just that it does not suprise me and if you go in with the intention of provoking someome that you have to expect that violence as demonstrated is a possible outcome.




posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by spartacus699
that's halarious. It's amazing how offended people can get. Like what happened to the first amendment! If they don't like them preaching they could just leave, not try and bully them. They take it so personally lol oh brother.


The first amendment apparently only applies to liberals who think they have the moral high ground



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 04:18 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 



When behavior at a "gay pride" event is so bad that anyone else would be arrested for public indecency, exposure, etc, then yes, it makes the WBC idiots look tame.


Someone could strip down naked and run around their neighborhood rubbing jello over their bodies and it wouldn't make a group of people showing up uninvited to a stranger's funeral claiming they deserved to die look tame...... Good grief. Let's keep some perspective here.

As for WBC not being Christian. The lady doth protest too much, methinks
edit on 12-7-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)


One thing is public indecency, while the other is a total lack of respect. Neither would be right for their actions.

As for them being Christian, they think only they are "saved", ignoring the words of Christ Himself, which means, by definition, they are not Christian.

I really don't think I have ever heard of anyone that approves of that bunch. it's off topic, but some reading of things revealed by one of the boys that ran off is quite telling. Sick group.

The funeral stuff is pretty well covered these days, by some awesome biker groups. I have to say, though, if they showed up at a funeral for a loved one of mine, I'd probably end up arrested. What I would be inclined to do would definitely be criminal.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 



Yes, we all should be careful, and take precautions, because it's a crazy, violent world. However, that doesn't excuse the attacks.


Thank you. I am happy you agree with everything I have thus far said


Not everything, but some of it. Blame versus responsibility, sure. I think young women should be sensible, and try to avoid situations that could make them victims of sexual assault, too. I would never blame them, though.



Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


If a homosexual went to a park where some large group didn't agree with his choices, waving signs at them, and they attacked him, would you say he was partly to blame? That he should have been more responsible for his safety?


See this is where the hang up is. Differentiating between 'blame' and 'responsibility'. Violence is not justified. Period. So I would blame the people attacking the homosexual. There is room here, however, to discuss how intelligent of a decision it was for said homosexual to protest in that manner. That's not excusing anything or condoning the violence.
edit on 12-7-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)


So, you blame the attackers in the video? I would blame those attacking as well, in either case.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 04:50 AM
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To provide some balance to this argument, here is a news report from Adelaide Australia where Christians pulled a lesbian female from her wheelchair.



As I maintain with the argument of the OP video, if this girl provoked the Christian group (these guys are really agressive, I've seen them in action) then while I do not condone the action, I am unsurprised by it.

And here is a vid of a Muslim man attacking Christian picketers. Interestingly, he goes for the man with the United States of Sodomy sign. I am sorry, but I do not see his attack as being unprovoked either.



Freedom of speech has it's consequences. Violence is not the answer, but not everyone is capable of keeping a clear head and keeping their temper under control.


edit on 12-7-2013 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-7-2013 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 05:35 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


What if they tried to rape him and they caught that on tape.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 07:00 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Here's the problem.
All speech is not free.
Just like fire in a theater.
Inciting a riot.
Saying bomb on a plane.

If your speech is about to cause imminent lawless action you aren't covered.

And also I'm not sure what kinds of Christians those guys are. But as soon as the crowd was turning ugly they should of left. Jesus says don't go looking for confrontations.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by grey580
 



Here's the problem.
All speech is not free.
Just like fire in a theater.
Inciting a riot.
Saying bomb on a plane.

If your speech is about to cause imminent lawless action you aren't covered.


Standing in a park, a public place with a sign expressing a religious message is simply NOT the same as shouting "fire" in a theater.

The Christians had every right to use that public space to express their P.O.V as the gays do that all the time. Its just that in this case, the gays had strength in numbers, so they took down the Christian dude. If it were the other way round, and a smaller group of gays were beaten down by a larger group of Christians, this would have made national news.

Just take a look at those people spewing obscenities at the guy with the sign. Definitely not the kind of people the media would portray as the face of the gay rights movement.


But as soon as the crowd was turning ugly they should of left.

That's basically the idea of "might is right". It amounts to intimidation and by that logic if Christian protesters start "turning ugly" at gay pride events, then the gays should be expected to leave.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 
Jiggerj I know many an ignorant redneck who would never attack a gay person for peacefully holding up a sign extolling the virtues of being gay at a public park during a Southern Baptist rally- they would look at them stupid and mutter to each other about him/her being crazy- but they wouldn't start beating that person up. I also know many homosexual people who would not attack someone holding up a sign extolling Christian values at a Gay Pride rally- they would look at him/her stupid and mutter to each other how crazy the person is- but would not physically or verbally attack. The people in the video are nasty jerks, plain and simple, especially for acting like that when they had a small child with them. There is NO excuse for how they acted!



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


4:45 I'm glad that big, bald shirtless guy was apprehended. Notice how calm and civil he is in front of the cops. Its almost as if you are looking at a different person altogether.

Hopefully the guy with the sign produces the recorded footage as evidence and complicates the lives of those who assaulted him.
edit on 12-7-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Don't shoot the messenger.
However that's how the law is.

This is like that other thread where the christian group went to a muslim festival and got kicked out by the cops.
If your speech is likely to incite imminent lawless action then you are responsible.

To me this is like poking a stick at a bee hive and then complaining when the bees sting you.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 



To me this is like poking a stick at a bee hive and then complaining when the bees sting you.

Well, they poked a stick at a beehive when they beat up a lone Christian with a sign....and were caught on camera.

That Christian group can....and should use this video as evidence against the people who assaulted them.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:52 PM
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I think this was totally unacceptable, and regrettable.
An assault was committed, and somebody was arrested.
That being said, the clip is short and edited, and we don't know what other posters or slogans they had before the time.

It's kinda sad, because Christian protesters have been a part of gay events for a long time.

I would add however that in my view this incident was sporadic and unplanned.
I see no evidence that some of these people are necessarily gay, or even took part in the march.
Sadly there seems to be a gender situation of girls (who don't touch the protester) inflame a kind of violent masculinity in one of the males, which sparks an assault.
This in itself makes it seem like the attackers are not very educated on lgtb issues, nor on the concept of non-violence in civil rights.
Clearly there's a need for more education in such matters.

I'm also sure that the shirtless guy was intoxicated.
It appears he has an extensive criminal record, including 29 arrests, and unfortunately there is always a risk of unhinged individuals causing trouble at public events.
While his record is in the press, nothing establishes that he is even gay, much less a "gay activist".
fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com...

I don't see a riot against Christians, or any sustained violence, but rather people are quick to react and stop the violence.
It clearly meets with disapproval.

Sadly the temperatures in the culture wars are high, and Christian protestors can come with a simplified message of being tolerant martyrs, but unfortunately that's not the sustained public messages certain groups get from their fundamentalist leaders on a daily basis.
Perhaps, like Westboro, in future they can also be more responsible and apply for protection.
Anyone can arrive at a public march with thousands of people, and there are various individuals with gripes.

What I don't see is a violent removal of the protestors by the crowd (or by police, for their own safety), or a near-riot situation, as when Muslims drove away Christian protestors from an Arab cultural festival in Dearborn (USA, 2012).
OK, this incident at a gay pride (but not in the gay pride) was wrong, and somebody was caught and will be punished, but now compare this to a worse scenario where a whole crowd suddenly starts throwing rocks and projectiles.

On the other hand, isn't it becoming tendentious for some of these groups to pitch uninvited with a performance, and then try to provoke point-of-view clips by capitalizing on events organized by others to show how oppressed and without free speech they are when they finally get a reaction?
Why don't they organize their own march, and then the resources will be available for their event, and they can have all the free speech in the world?

I don't see a lone protesting Christian, but at least three other quite powerful young men (one holding a Bible), and what they said to people before the time is unclear.
That's no excuse to assault anyone, but it seems the women actually want to calm things down when they realize the threat of real violence, and shout "Stop" when the incident happens.

Anyway, nobody can stop a brawl or assault where many people gather, but this is what should be avoided,
It will be interesting to see if they'll be back in Dearborn this year, but I don't think they've been scared away from any gay marches by a punch from an unhinged individual, and some very apologetic young ladies (supposedly "lesbian activists" according to the press) afterwards.
People seemed to be smiling at the start, and some macho twit with mental issues got the wrong message.

I really would make a distinction between a fringe incident and a virtual riot, such as in Dearborn between Muslims and Christian protestors:



edit on 12-7-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by grey580
 



To me this is like poking a stick at a bee hive and then complaining when the bees sting you.

Well, they poked a stick at a beehive when they beat up a lone Christian with a sign....and were caught on camera.

That Christian group can....and should use this video as evidence against the people who assaulted them.



So much for turning the other cheek.

I'm not excusing the actions of the others.
It certainly is wrong.

However as a christian you shouldn't go out looking for trouble.
edit on 12-7-2013 by grey580 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 03:38 PM
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And not totally surprising, it seems that the "Christians" provoking gay pride were the same as those provoking the Muslim festival in Dearborn.
www.christianpost.com...

Imagine organizing a community festival and then having a bunch of people arriving with massive posters on how non-accepted your community is, and how you will burn in a lake of fire.

Clearly they don't care for the safety of anyone, also not the police.
They have a right to free speech, but not at all costs.
They have a right to legal free speech like Westboro, whose status as disruptive trolls they are fast approaching.
From what I've seen they seem to actually enjoy these altercations, with some effects of an adrenaline high afterwards.

They seem to be led by somebody called Ruben Israel, and are called the Official Street Preachers.
They call gay and lesbian people "sodomites" on their site.
www.officialstreetpreachers.com...

They must be doing something extremely offensive, because generally pockets of Christian protestors at gay marches are not attacked or arrested.
Sure, there is shouting and mutual taunting as parades go by, but this group is creating problems.

This event could also be used to tone down the heat and volume on both sides of any event.

So one should also look at the specific group involved, and whether they really stand for all Christians, or responsible free speech.

Anybody who likes this kind of thing can also invite them to teach their church or home group the methods of Biblical confrontation: www.officialstreetpreachers.com...
So, if you like upsetting people and a bloody face, and you're not Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic, Mormon, a fan of rock music, a pagan, a Jew, a homosexual or a cult (how ironic) then this could be a fun way of trolling people, and stirring up invigorating entertainment.

edit on 12-7-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-7-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 04:32 PM
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I'm sure you'd feel different if you'd been assaulted for being a heathen. But since the victim is a Christian (which you are on record all over ATS for hating) you make excuses. This thread is an amazing social experiment. Personally I'm not at all surprised by the results.


Ya know, your words are kind of implying that you are annoyed by my comments here at ATS. But, you can't see how the poster-waving and bible-toting Jesus freaks in that clip were annoying to the people who were just out enjoying a sunny day. There's a word for that. I think it called being a hypocrite.


edit on 7/12/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by littled16
 





The people in the video are nasty jerks, plain and simple, especially for acting like that when they had a small child with them. There is NO excuse for how they acted!


I'm not arguing that at all. I doubt the average IQ of that entire group (religious retards included) was above 70. But, how many times can you have protestors in your face (telling you that your life is a lie) before it frustrates the hell out of you?

If the religious would stop trying to "save" everyone and focused on saving themselves, the world would be a MUCH better place.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 
It can't be any worse than walking the gamut into an abortion clinic with people holding signs screaming that you're a murderer and deserve to die yourself, spitting at you and throwing trash at you- and only part of them were religious folks. I held my head high and said "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and walked in the door. I didn't scream or curse at anyone or physically attack anyone, and no one else attacked them that day or any of the days that they were there protesting for three solid years. Like I said- those jerks don't get a pass for physically attacking people!



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 05:44 PM
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People are getting way to distracted over the groups involved. Let me dumb it down for the easily swayed minds.
Imagine it was a dog lover exercising his first amendment rights at a cat pride event and then the cat lovers attacked him without cause.
Its a pretty funny little liberal conundrum, must support the liberal version of equality but at the same time the first amendment is being stomped on



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 05:46 PM
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Apparently, here the Street Preachers confront the Catholics in Washington DC.



Until now the best response was from the Albuquerque Gay Pride 2013.
At the end of the march the parade simply refused to move, until the Street Preacher sect was removed.
They had their freedom of speech, and I'm sure every single person at the parade had heard their religious interpretations many times.
There was no violence, just community spirit.
They should have their free speech like Westboro, or have their own marches.



It seems that they wanted to be on the mainstream radar for a while, although that brings good attention and bad, but it is certainly not the last we will hear from this group.
edit on 12-7-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



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