The Language of Vampyr

reply to post by Kantzveldt



Thanks for sharing, it wasn't so much psychic attack, more like someone had entered my subconscious to question me regarding something they were interested in, but it was designed in a rather clever nefarious way to induce fear and intimidation (the individual had masked themselves with things that I find fearful) to offer the said information. Masking themselves in this way also disguised their residual image and signature, well until It became apparent that was.

It wasn't a pleasant experience that's for sure!

I really think this thread is fantastic, from its early steps onto a feverish search for knowledge, unexpected glimpses from the people at FL for a moment and a gentle evolution into something that seems to encompass as many ever-changing angles as it can in an interesting way.
I generally dont agree with many of the subjects it now envelops, but here it is so organically weaved into the meta-thread that it has allowed it to take on a 'soul' of its own. So it really just, belongs.
IMO, this thread is the diorama of the whole site.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


have been looking at these Cassini Diskus. You can see them here

FL

They seem to have smybols beside the titles of most ones.

Came across a thing called a Cassini oval, which seem to be Anallagmatic Curves.

Cassini oval

I'm not too hot on mathematics, but try, so thought I might just put it out there.

Talk of Shedding, and Dark Queens...FL's latest Is appropriately under the lable Vampyr

Unnatural grafting, aberrant implantation, and seemingly spontaneous generation are characteristic of mushrooms as well as witches, as is evidenced by their predilection for generating unnatural forms through illicit sexual liaisons and the black arts. Like witches, mushrooms were perceived to be deceptive in appearance as they were notoriously difficult to identify and harmless varieties could be nearly indistinguishable from their poisonous counterparts.

I really like that comparison of the harmless ones and poisonous ones...

You're waiting for a train, a train that will take you far away...

Just don't wait with your head on the tracks!

I wish it was possible to edit this whole thread down to all the posts which make a coherent narrative of where it all started; the evolution of conjecture - subsequent research and lines of reasoning leading to logical conclusions in certain individual suppositions; current hypothesis 'directions'; and etc...


If it were possible to get rid of all the dead ends, dead theories, and dead brained posts, new people would be more likely to enter the discussion having read enough of the thread to provide viable commentary, including fresh perspectives which could lead to new avenues of 'productive' (and enjoyable) lines of thought...


But I don't suppose that editing threads in that way is allowed...is it?

lostgirl
I wish it was possible to edit this whole thread down to all the posts which make a coherent narrative of where it all started; the evolution of conjecture - subsequent research and lines of reasoning leading to logical conclusions in certain individual suppositions; current hypothesis 'directions'; and etc...


If it were possible to get rid of all the dead ends, dead theories, and dead brained posts, new people would be more likely to enter the discussion having read enough of the thread to provide viable commentary, including fresh perspectives which could lead to new avenues of 'productive' (and enjoyable) lines of thought...


But I don't suppose that editing threads in that way is allowed...is it?

You could probably do a summation better than I did if you want? But how would you edit the thread, that is something only the site owner can do possibly a mod...

And what would you consider a dead end? Sometimes in a conversation a silly ancidote can trigger a brain storm on a subject. Conversation that is to linear and does not flow is just an info dump.

abeverage

You could probably do a summation better than I did if you want? But how would you edit the thread, that is something only the site owner can do possibly a mod...

And what would you consider a dead end? Sometimes in a conversation a silly ancidote can trigger a brain storm on a subject. Conversation that is to linear and does not flow is just an info dump.

Well, I don't think I could do a better summary, but that may be a moot point, because your point about particular conversations or anecdotes triggering "brain storms" shows the value in attempting to 'pare down' the thread as a whole, rather than merely summarizing...and since the primary reason to make the thread more 'user friendly', would be in hopes of attracting new contributors who (being able to read the evolution of the thread right from the beginning) would bring new perspective, hopefully inspiring new avenues of thought and research...

As far as dead ends, a better term might be dead 'weight'...I was thinking more along the lines of getting rid of certain sorts of posts, for example:
Ones which only (unbeknownst to the poster) reiterate points which were already made and followed up on earlier in the thread...
Ones which, very early in the thread, set everyone off on a tangent of research followed by conclusions which were subsequently shown to have no validity...
Certainly posts which (while nice at the time) said nothing more than various versions of 'great thread, really enjoying it'...
And then once you get to page 20 or so, there are so many posts from people who only read the first several pages (if that) and made comments that have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on what the thread is even about!

But I suppose this is all a moot point as well considering, as you said, only the site owner can do....unless the site owner could be persuaded to allow an exception...?

I don't know, it just seems to me such a waste when any thread gets to such a high number of pages that (regardless how enticing the subject matter) members are too over-whelmed at the idea of wading thru up to a thousand posts or more in order to have the background needed to contribute pertinent info, ideas, or insights...

So, that was my thinking...if anyone knows anyone who has any 'pull' with the ATS powers that be...well, it might be worth asking if the thread could be edited in this way - that is, if anyone else still feels that the thread has enough value for the sort of effort such editing would involve....

reply to post by lostgirl


Be really cool if thread creators could recommend certain replies and guid the conversation a bit.

That Affel language script is using some Hebrew/Aramaic letters. Some are inverted, backwards and upside down however I see L Lamed, TZ Tzadi, Ey Ayin perhaps even Y Yod and R Resh.

reply to post by abeverage


It is quite a thread.

I wonder if the Mods would let Kantzveldt make a "Thread Digest" - like a table of contents/topics/relevant posts kind of thing. OR - rather than a separate Thread, it could be a post or a few posts within this thread - a Mod could put a link(s) to it on the OP, if they were so inclined...

A structure like this? (I'm making up the page numbers & everything, so...for structure only)

Topic "A" pages 1 - 4, plus 9, 10 and 12
Topic "A" - highlighted post, highlighted post, highlighted post, highlighted post, (etc.) conclusion post

Topic "B" pages 4 - 15, plus 17
Topic "B" - highlighted post, highlighted post, highlighted post, highlighted post, (etc.) conclusion post

You could have a few light-hearted topic links too, like "best music videos in thread" and "best anecdotes," or "dead end rabbit holes" just for fun as a sort of Addendum.

It would be a ton of work, and would probably take more than one person / point of view to make sure good stuff wasn't glossed over, but it is Kandtzveldts' thread, so I would bend towards what she wants to do (or not do).

I'm not volunteering myself to do this, btw, LOL! Just thinking out loud.

- AB

I think the easiest thing, if only the admins would allow it, would be for someone (and I would be willing) to just start at page one and delete each extraneous (as I described in previous post) individual post...

I went thru the first 30 or so pages, just to see if I had missed anything 'pertinent', and nearly half the posts were utterly expendable i.e. 'great thread' comments, repetition of info, troll posts, etc...

Thoughts from a lurker..

“..... my view is that language is the only way we have to describe reality. As language is part of that reality, you cannot simply rely on language to know reality: your conclusions will be limited by language itself. If you are exposed to aspects of reality that language cannot describe properly, your knowledge about those aspects will be extremely limited.” Direne, posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 05:16 PM

The Gut touched on what stood out to me early on. That is, a collective consciousness acting in a hive mentality. If achieved the preset limits of understanding would dissolve because together our aspects of reality increase substantially, and in effect our language broadens yet also simplifies.

“A good example is quantum gravity (or just quantum mechanics). The math here is more powerful than language itself. You cannot describe properly the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen experiment or the quantum nonlocality. The sentence "The photon is in two places at the same time" means nothing if expressed using natural language. The quantum world does not have "here" and "there". If you were to be reduced to the size of a photon, language would collapse” Direne, posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 05:16 PM

We evolve, our language evolves, our understanding evolves, our knowledge/capabilities evolve. We are then not limited to the quantum. But what do we leave behind in the journey?

“Going to an exoplanet is a one-way trip. No return. Therefore, if you go, you go to stay. At any cost. At any rate.” Direne, posted on Jul, 17 2013 @ 07:11 PM

We have seen time and time again, in order to come together we must silence our ego. Ego as in what ties us to the quantum, not just ego of how we compare to others. It is what encompasses our individuality, and what divides us (sometimes great distances).
So how do we achieve this?


“If the brain adopts a given specific measurable configuration milliseconds before opening your mouth to pronounce a word, why pronouncing a word at all? Couldn't be better to 'read' that neural configuration somehow? And, wouldn't be wonderful if you could read that neural configuration at a distance? Same for images. If your brain takes a particular, measurable, configuration when exposed to an external image, wouldn't be better to learn how to read that configuration in order to 'see' the image your communication partner is seeing mentally?”

“We feel that's possible. At least, we feel that's where evolution is leading us.”

“ Cassini Diskus is an experiment to cope precisely with those scenarios in which language collapses. We noticed that each time you change the scale of a problem, language should change accordingly. Otherwise, it proves useless as a means for communication.”Direne, posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 05:16 PM

Scenarios in which language collapses… when our language collapses our perception brought on by our social programming no longer ‘interferes’ with our raw unaltered conceptual understanding and experience.


When I was a baby, before I could walk, I was crawling around my mother’s feet while she did the dishes. I stopped and sat on my bum and stared at the wall. I remember distinctly looking over at my mothers feet and feeling a connection to her. As in,”oh I know you, and aha so THAT is why I am here.” That first understanding of memory and building connections has held on for my entire life. Now I did not understand words, I had no true sense of language at that point other than basic signals of want and need. But I understand now how we are born with an anti-language, an unhindered understanding where words are not necessary in order to experience.
So how do we bridge the distance?

“Cassini Diskus is not a language. It is a device to encode information using sound and images and transforming that encoded information into a signal, that is then transmitted at a frequency 27 Hz and/or 12.704 GHz” Direne, posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 04:24 AM

And we come to a very astute question from Eidolon23….
“I assume that evolutionary leap would be technologically facilitated which presents two problems immediately to my mind.
1. It would probably only be available to those who can pay for it.
2. If the resources were available for universal usage, it would erase cultural and even ego distinctions in one fell swoop.
Do you think we're ready for that?”
In which the reply was:

“I don't see it that way. Changing the way you communicate does not change who you are. Take the sign language as an example. Using it (at a global scale) does not affect the way society is organized,”Direne

But if language has collapsed, understanding is evolved through collective consciousness and limits are transformed of course we are going to change.

“And you need two beings to start communicating. Though the essential thing you need is space. Distance. Without space separating beings, communication is not necessary.”Direne

But without space two beings become one.

In the end we have become the vampire, in that we have taken what information we wanted, we have chewed it and either spit it out or swallowed it up and digested what we could of it. Transforming it into something we can grasp and try to understand to fulfill our own hunger and thirst. And regardless of the outcome we killed it to consume it.

reply to post by strangefires


hello strangefires: love your membername, and your post definitively resonates, strongly.....and I have this feeling that many understand what you say, are somewhat afraid of its content, and this thread has definitively been about what you describe.


This I would like to speak to:

“And you need two beings to start communicating. Though the essential thing you need is space. Distance. Without space separating beings, communication is not necessary.”Direne

But without space two beings become one.

I have spoken up, incessantly, on this thread about the dangers of what you describe, for it is the hive mind, really... eidolon23 asked "are we ready for that..." It no longer matters, for it is where we are now. And I have the distinct impression there are those who readily know this, and pretend otherwise, with a laugh in their replies...all those who don't know this, are but a joke.
Sad, but true. We have member waxing philosophical, and waxing intellectual, showing off, outdoing and (in their minds, showing the very reason, by their intellect, why, we have come to this point, to show the others' punyness, so to speak, if it's as you say, and we've already become what we investigated....the vampyr/vampire....no matter how you spell it---it's been a trick, for to discover turns out is the true paradox of life, as readng and discovering turns you into the thing many of us would reject.)

Which both brings us to and already adressed this:

In the end we have become the vampire, in that we have taken what information we wanted, we have chewed it and either spit it out or swallowed it up and digested what we could of it. Transforming it into something we can grasp and try to understand to fulfill our own hunger and thirst. And regardless of the outcome we killed it to consume it.

This, stated here, is the paradox in action: knowing and searching overwhelms and the price for it is becoming what you both seek and eschew, but in the end, cannot get away from as the knowlege of it, simply, overtakes you and you become it....It is the price you pay for that knowlege. Is that not what you express here, in your words, for we are working with language, are we not? And that is the true irony, if what you and I describe is a true outcome, for it happened via language, did it not? and nothing more and nothing less: a trick of language, and trying to understand......
Tetra50

ETA: I, for one, didn't consume anything in trying to understand, nor become any different. If I was a vampyr before, then I am the same now. I f I wasn't, then I'm not now. But I reflect strongly upon your words, as in the price we pay for knowing....or questioning...and is not that the cruelest diatribe that could possibly exist?

i hope this thread will not be edited or anything. who would be the one to judge what is an important comment and what not ? better to let it like it is- all aspects (even the trolls) are important for the whole picture. jmho

but yes the whole thing could need its own wiki.

the last video from FL that was posted here blew me away. i cant find it again atm . the 3d animation and whole artwork is what i would expect from a major video game-production. if a single member of FL created the animation he sure did an astounding job and it must have taken lots of time. maybe the animation was originally created for another purpose and FL obtained rights to use them ? i would like to see that video in hd.comparing to previous "brainburger" and weird vampire and ufo videos this clip´s quality simply goes through the roof.

i confess that i watched the video with only one eye and without sound- for security reasons. haha ok i used both eyes but was scared to turn on the sound.the brainburger vids made me feel uneasy too.but this new video is on a totally different level and sucked me in like a very well made commercial for a video game. maybe FL realized that their videos have many views- but from reading here they know that some people just turn off the sound... so now they came up with a way to put their message just into the images and make people watch the whole thing because its just such an awesome 3d animation... ?
well so far i had no disturbing nightmares :/

reply to post by glowdog

I think they may have got these guys or their product invovled with their vids. FL subscribed to CG Bros channel around the same time FL vids changed.

CG Bros

Here is a review of their site, funnily enough from a website called 19-hertz.

19-hertz

reply to post by glowdog




Too right, why go to the effort of making the condensed version for those who are too idle to make the effort to follow, who would rather have everything served up as a tasteless ready-meal, who are happy to drift through life with a tourist mentality consuming all that seems convenient to them...which is to say i don't really do direct


The video you refer to;





reply to post by tetra50



If there is such a thing as a hive mentality then what are the bees, the thoughts, and what is suggested by the black and the gold banding...?

thanks ZeussusZ for the link to that cgbro channel ! maybe they recruited artists from there or maybe just got permission or bought rights to use some of the animations and just edited their own weirdness on top of it.. i suspect the last. to produce such a clip professionally would be expensive.it could be a private portfolio project of some artist that has an agreement with FL.
either way it seems they are cranking up the quality of their videos. strange that they are not accessible via the youtube channel.
and Kantzveldt, thanks for the link to the video!

reply to post by tetra50




If there is such a thing as a hive mentality then what are the bees, the thoughts, and what is suggested by the black and the gold banding...?

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Ahhh, Kantz.....always leading me there. The worker bees are us, of course. The thoughts, the honey. The gold a symbol for the honey. The black a symbol, literally, for the darkness present in the hive. The darkness needs the gold, the honey. Quite literally, for manifesting the thought into form. Ergo, Lovecraft, who, as Abeverage alluded to, loved the craft, the spelling. So rich with irony, this, on The Language of Vampyr, as we are being spelled. Perhaps gold is different at a subatomic level than most minerals. Perhaps it has certain qualities, allowing for manifestation of what could not otherwise, manifest. Perhaps. I am a simple woman, really, a girl in the world, no more and no less. These are guesses on my part, or perhaps recovering memory? Who knows. But I have memories of horror, I would wish on no one, and would prefer to eclipse happening all over again.

I made it to
the forward deck
and blessed our random fleet
and consent
to be read
a thousand kisses deep.

Leonard Cohen. A Thousand Kisses Deep

Sincerely,
Tetra

reply to post by tetra50



That's good, and what then would be the Queen Bee in such a metaphorical hive, an ideal...?

We might also consider the wasps that you alluded to, and their Queen Eris, who work to no good end save that they enjoy being wasps.

A hive mentality in this limited context can then of course be applied to many institutions, the United States of America for example is a hive wherein the Queen Bee is the Constitution, or an a lesser scale FL can be understood as being of a hive or nest mentality, such things are common.