The Language of Vampyr

reply to post by abeverage



The golden dream mirrors enabled beautiful dreams to manifest within reality, the forces of Darkness thus looked to shatter them. In a sense it might be considered that Higher Powers manifest through such within individuals, that they are as a reflection of those spiritual qualities.

They existed within the heart of a person who had a beautiful dream of some kind, and the Mirror was connected to their dream; it appeared to be either a physical manifestation of the dream or at least a means with which to view it.

Dream Mirrors


This is an interesting article from FL regarding Cognition Without Brain

intelligence is not a quality that is either present or absent. Instead, it can be present to a varying extent, forming a continuum of stages. An absolute minimum is what she calls a rudimentary intelligence—basically reducible to the ability to react adaptively to the environment, i.e., to learn. Next comes the ability to learn from new stimuli and adapt to changed conditions, and only then the so-called “higher cognitive functions” such as recognition of objects or even self-awareness.


...discussion of humans on whether plants have intelligence only shows how far from intelligence humans are.

Perhaps inside every sunflower there is a golden mirror...

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
reply to post by abeverage

 

The golden dream mirrors enabled beautiful dreams to manifest within reality, the forces of Darkness thus looked to shatter them. In a sense it might be considered that Higher Powers manifest through such within individuals, that they are as a reflection of those spiritual qualities.

They existed within the heart of a person who had a beautiful dream of some kind, and the Mirror was connected to their dream; it appeared to be either a physical manifestation of the dream or at least a means with which to view it.

Dream Mirrors


This is an interesting article from FL regarding Cognition Without Brain

intelligence is not a quality that is either present or absent. Instead, it can be present to a varying extent, forming a continuum of stages. An absolute minimum is what she calls a rudimentary intelligence—basically reducible to the ability to react adaptively to the environment, i.e., to learn. Next comes the ability to learn from new stimuli and adapt to changed conditions, and only then the so-called “higher cognitive functions” such as recognition of objects or even self-awareness.


...discussion of humans on whether plants have intelligence only shows how far from intelligence humans are.

Perhaps inside every sunflower there is a golden mirror...

I have always liked the idea of a Dream Mirror as reflections of our inner selves.

Our definitions of consciousness and memory are limited by our own vanity and arrogance as a species. But what do we do with that sort of information? I remember reading that carrots give off a death cry when digested...

Some do not see the sunflower as beautiful, I am not sure why? But what other flower makes you feel warm, makes you think of the sun with its golden rays and even gives part of its self in tasty treat? It is this time of year I think of making sunflower seeds...

reply to post by Kantzveldt


The article you linked to also shows a graphic of an insect-creature with the caption "Xenolinguistics: Communicating with Other Life Forms" if you scroll down through it. Link Again

Some thoughts:

If you can pull back to the "singularity" or the "ocean" of consciousness (as in the idea that we are all tiny little reflective holographic images of this whole ocean imo, ala Talbot's Holographic Universe and various Eastern schools of thought) then perhaps you can build from there to communicate with anything - i.e. finding "common ground" in the "ocean" as opposed to the strangeness of the "drops" - and the "ocean" is within everything due to the holographic nature of reality, if this theory is accurate.

[shrugs] We are unique individuals/beings with narrow bands of sensory experience and cognition, as that infinite uniqueness is part of the paradox and enrichment of Life - a built in 'given,' just that Life is all connected at the dawning point of consciousness - from one celled creatures or plants to blades of grass on up to whatever species carries the crown for "most evolved" in the universe.

So - if sensory input is different, if language is utterly unintelligible between species, then breaking things down (anti-language) to the very ocean of consciousness is a possible doorway to communication with everything that has consciousness. That's just my basic understanding of this aspect of FL's interests - which may not reflect their actual position - lol!

This is submitted humbly, I assure you, as I am not claiming this to be "how it is" but merely a possibility - food for thought only.

peace,
AB

reply to post by AboveBoard


Somebody's been spending time with Watts...


what you do is what the whole universe is doing at the place you call 'here and now'. you are something that the whole universe is doing, in the same way that a wave is something the whole ocean is doing. the real you is not a puppet which lfe pushes around. the real deep down you is the whole universe. ~Alan Watts

Who are you? Who are you really?

reply to post by abeverage


Hm. I can't say that I've hung out with Watts.

I don't know - he's doing the whole "wake up people" thing, which is annoying. lol! I don't know if I'm awake or asleep and dreaming...or if I am the dream...or what. I do know that I have no investment in telling others to "wake up" to something!!


I guess another way I think of it (the universe/life/consciousness) is as a fractal image (based on the phi perhaps??) - the root image is in everything, no matter how small or away from the Original - and each compliments and contributes to the Whole Pattern. Not quite an ocean, perhaps, but metaphors are plentiful.

And if I'm what the universe is doing in the "here and now" - wow - no offense to the Universe, but it really needs to get a life!!!! ha!

peace,
AB

ETA: I do know why you posted that - not trying to give you a hard time about it - I just find Watts to be overbearing in his presentation! He goes with the "you are the ocean doing a wave" metaphor and everything is made up of wave-forms and frequencies at some level, in the great ocean-soup of life!
(Mmm - ocean soup!)

Originally posted by AboveBoard
reply to post by abeverage

 

Hm. I can't say that I've hung out with Watts.

I don't know - he's doing the whole "wake up people" thing, which is annoying. lol! I don't know if I'm awake or asleep and dreaming...or if I am the dream...or what. I do know that I have no investment in telling others to "wake up" to something!!

I guess another way I think of it (the universe/life/consciousness) is as a fractal image (based on the phi perhaps??) - the root image is in everything, no matter how small or away from the Original - and each compliments and contributes to the Whole Pattern. Not quite an ocean, perhaps, but metaphors are plentiful.

And if I'm what the universe is doing in the "here and now" - wow - no offense to the Universe, but it really needs to get a life!!!! ha!

peace,
AB

ETA: I do know why you posted that - not trying to give you a hard time about it - I just find Watts to be overbearing in his presentation! He goes with the "you are the ocean doing a wave" metaphor and everything is made up of wave-forms and frequencies at some level, in the great ocean-soup of life!
(Mmm - ocean soup!)

edit on 29-8-2013 by AboveBoard because: dreaded extra 'd'

edit on 29-8-2013 by AboveBoard because: silliness

Actually he no longer tells anyone anything as he went to the next level and in two months it will 40 years ago. But like most sages he had good nuggets of knowledge and wisdom but I don't think he completely walked the walk.

Do you think we are all awake? I know I have spent a lot of time on autopilot as it were. I look at this world and I know that most are asleep too. I also don't presume to telling people what to do, but I might offer them a little nudge if they are asleep at the wheel...

Well this has gone off topic...lol

While I do not believe we are all one, I do think we are experiencing the universe for a purpose. And sharing that is part of what language is all about.

Language is the form of Communication and Communication takes the form and expressions of ideas through Language. And through this we learn to understand not only each other but the Universe we live in. I do not see how one can exist without the other.

This thread has given me a lot to think about and has opened my eyes to ideas about language I had never even heard of let alone thought of!

reply to post by AboveBoard


Maybe one can over complicate things, all aspects of nature can already be read in terms of a Universal language, it is the role of the artist to make this apparent, whether through music, poetic metaphor, visual symbolism etc.

A sunflower will never communicate through song and dance, but it does communicate through colour, form, climatic and soil type preferences, diurnal and seasonal activities it's essential nature, and this not only to us but also the birds and beasties and things that crawleth.

Diversity and complexity are crucial factors in creativity, but the basic underlying language of all isn't difficult to understand, yet for certain reasons it is never taught, though some as i mentioned grasp it intuitively to differing degrees, and also of course everyone can instinctively communicate without resort to words.

reply to post by abeverage


Whew - no - not so much off topic as circling back around, I think!

Do you think we are all awake? I know I have spent a lot of time on autopilot as it were. I look at this world and I know that most are asleep too. I also don't presume to telling people what to do, but I might offer them a little nudge if they are asleep at the wheel...

Are we all awake? Big question. Awake to what? I am awake to my small frequency band of human senses, my life experience as best as I can remember (which is questionable how accurate memory is) and to certain events, thoughts I've gleaned from the work of others and such packed into my brain... There are innumerable things I am Not "awake" to, and that is just the nature of it. As to giving a nudge - by all means, please do - I would never want to crash!!

While I do not believe we are all one, I do think we are experiencing the universe for a purpose. And sharing that is part of what language is all about.

Language is the form of Communication and Communication takes the form and expressions of ideas through Language. And through this we learn to understand not only each other but the Universe we live in. I do not see how one can exist without the other.

If the question is a choice between:
1) We are each a unique, isolated consciousness sharing the universe, OR,
2) We are "all one" in the ultimate "ocean of reality" in the "ground of being" (whatever language...)
My answer is: YES!
Paradox.

And Language. Words. Communication... Well. I do my best:

You see - there is this concept of this Paradox (above) in my head - like a many-faceted crystal I delicately balance in what I can conceive of infinity - shaped from fragments of experience, of education, resonance with ideas, colors, sounds, music, movement, a movie clip, light, synchronicities, snippets of words,yes, but mostly its this non-verbal, experiential thing.

When I try to express that - to put it into words - the crystal shatters, turned to lumps of rough-cut stone. I then throw a lump of these left-over stones into the waters of conversation, this word "paradox" that is a sad token of my inner world, and watch its ripples spread.

Then I wait to see where it meets the ripples of other's experience, and 'communication' occurs in the interference patterns (or not). I look to see what those patterns have to offer to enrich, transform, or disabuse me of aspects of the original experiential and largely non-verbal idea.

And I would never try to convince you one way or the other in regards to what I hold in my head/heart/being - I will only attempt to share my experience with the crude tools at my disposal and leave it at that. I only gain from the discussion.

This thread has given me a lot to think about and has opened my eyes to ideas about language I had never even heard of let alone thought of!

Indeed! I'm grateful for the experience! I mostly just sit on the sidelines with popcorn and take in what I can from the beautiful minds on this thread. It is most appreciated! I'm only slipping in for a minute or two, tossing in a stone...

peace,
AB

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
reply to post by AboveBoard

 

Maybe one can over complicate things, all aspects of nature can already be read in terms of a Universal language, it is the role of the artist to make this apparent, whether through music, poetic metaphor, visual symbolism etc.

A sunflower will never communicate through song and dance, but it does communicate through colour, form, climatic and soil type preferences, diurnal and seasonal activities it's essential nature, and this not only to us but also the birds and beasties and things that crawleth.

Diversity and complexity are crucial factors in creativity, but the basic underlying language of all isn't difficult to understand, yet for certain reasons it is never taught, though some as i mentioned grasp it intuitively to differing degrees, and also of course everyone can instinctively communicate without resort to words.

Beautifully said, Kantzveldt. And I would not wish to oversimplify nor err on the side of tangled complexity.
I wish I were a better artist!

As to sunflowers - if I think about them, they resonate with the golden spiral and its geometry, the color yellow, the bright green of summer, the drama of defense against predators, pulling of nutrients, healing, sensing the sun, growth, even personal experiences and memories pop up, etc. - and in my head, the form and color, while not in any way words, are indeed communication - and can be translated in to light and sound - music of the sunflower's soul, by an adept artist. Like I said - I wish I were a better artist!!

Thank you for your response - I will sit with it and take it in...

peace,
AB

reply to post by AboveBoard


Interesting thought. What, exactly, is enlightenment... or being awake? And are there degrees?

I'd suggest it basically is being child-like in one's perceptions (as in fresh and not yet jaded) with an easy grasp of intuition, a sense of more existing "behind the scenes" with the addition of awareness of the transitory nature of this one level of consciousness... if that makes any sense.

Being in a state of constant amazement and in the moment can have real life consequences, though, like getting munched by a random carnivore (of any species... and stripe) or not storing food for the winter.

But then, when enlightened, one might grasp that it doesn't really matter if one croaks... but I'd think there are, like in all things, levels and different foci.

As far as Watts, chemically going from a repressed meat and bone academic to a free lovin' mystic bear was a big "awakening" and all new acid heads want to spread the good news... the problem being what this news IS exactly.

So, what IS enlightenment... or is it different for everyone?

And Beverage, that remark at the end of my last post was indeed regarding you... so nice catch. When tipsy, "a beverage" sounds (or reads) like "above average" and I thought that was intentional on your part. Skoal.

Oh and who says sunflowers don't literally dance? I have seen them sway in the sun's bass beat and encompass me in their grooviness, but then I was having a Watts day... so there's that...

Sheesh. I leave for a minute and this place turns into a hippy love-fest. Can someone pass the patchouli-scented lubricant please?

Jus' kiddin'. It's a nice conversation and allows me to do something I've been looking for the opportunity to do:

Dear, Direne, Ayndryl, and FL in General:

I want to sincerely apologize for any posts where I have been out of line. There is certainly not enough information for me, personally, to be making negative assertions. Nor am I qualified to judge your project---or much of anything else for that matter.

Some of it, dears, does seem like it could hold some personal danger, but you are certainly by far intelligent enough to assess those risks for yourselves.

I do truly appreciate the kindness you've shown to some of our members and have zero reason to think it anything but sweet and sincere.

I hope you don't mind us playing armchair detective some, though. It is, after all, a very human--and ATS--characteristic. Further, I do hope that you understand the concern some of us have about what some folk might want to do with the kind of research it looks like you might be doing.

Topics that look like they have the possibility of falling into the broad range of "mind-control" and/or socio-engineering raise our antenna of vigilance. We only mean good in doing so, but I also realize that we might sometimes trample an undeserving sunflower in the process.

So, again, my apologies. Good luck in your endeavors. Watch out for the wolves.

It's so nice for a change to see an ATS not riddled with racism and stupid conspiracy rhetoric about "sheeple" and such.

This thread has the right measures of enigma, intrigue, occult and most importantly, level headed investigation and accredited research. Reminds me of the old days--what a great collective effort.

I read every post up to page 12, any chance someone could please be so kind to fill me in on anything else this great thread has uncovered? DM me if needs be.

Thanks,
S

Originally posted by Scope and a Beam
It's so nice for a change to see an ATS not riddled with racism and stupid conspiracy rhetoric about "sheeple" and such.

This thread has the right measures of enigma, intrigue, occult and most importantly, level headed investigation and accredited research. Reminds me of the old days--what a great collective effort.

I read every post up to page 12, any chance someone could please be so kind to fill me in on anything else this great thread has uncovered? DM me if needs be.

Thanks,
S

To sum up this thread is kind of like trying to Sum up ATS as this SERIOUSLY ran the gambit...

You do need to keep reading at least up to when Direne (a member of Forgotten Languages) joined the thread, I believe that was around page 23 (and then you will keep reading lol).

I can give you some highlights...

Let's see there were Mysteries, secr3t c0des, Vampires (although not really or maybe?), Secret Societies, UFO's, Daemons/Demons, ORBS, ~Telepathy~, Covert Government OPS, *Tesla*, The Nature of Existence, What is language?, A couple of Freakouts, and Spirituality. The only thing I think wasn't in there was like GMO's, Race, Guns, and Obama, though I might have missed a post or two...


But explain it???

Asking me to explain it, would be like trying to explain a Dream...it sort of makes sense as soon as you wake, some parts are a bit blurry and confusing, you really did get bits and pieces or think you did! A whole lot of weird and crazy stuff happened, and although it was an interesting ride you still don't know what it all meant.

Originally posted by abeverage

Originally posted by Scope and a Beam
It's so nice for a change to see an ATS not riddled with racism and stupid conspiracy rhetoric about "sheeple" and such.

This thread has the right measures of enigma, intrigue, occult and most importantly, level headed investigation and accredited research. Reminds me of the old days--what a great collective effort.

I read every post up to page 12, any chance someone could please be so kind to fill me in on anything else this great thread has uncovered? DM me if needs be.

Thanks,
S

To sum up this thread is kind of like trying to Sum up ATS as this SERIOUSLY ran the gambit...

You do need to keep reading at least up to when Direne (a member of Forgotten Languages joined the thread) I believe that was page 23. I can give you some highlights...

Let's see there were mysteries, secret codes, vampires(although not really), secret societies, UFO's, Telepathy, Covert Government OPS, The Nature of Existence, What is language, A couple of Freakouts, and Spirituality. The only thing I think wasn't in there was like GMO's, Guns, and Obama, but I missed a post or two...

But explain it?

Asking me to explain it would be like trying to explain a Dream...it sort of makes sense as soon as you wake, some parts are a bit blurry and confusing, you really did get bits and pieces and whole lot of weird stuff happened but it was interesting you still don't know what it all meant.

What a fantastic synopsis, Abeverage. I saw the above poster's question, and couldn't for the life of me figure out how to answer it, it's been such a ride.

But, yeah, explain it? I think those of who read, researched and commented are all still trying to assimilate and disseminate it. At least, I am. I had to step back, for reason and logic were leaving my purview, and I am not comfortable when that happens. There are still things I see as beautifull here, as the last page of exchanges between you, AboveBoard, Kantzveldt, and The Gut.....all that hippy love stuff, as Gut described it. My reaction, frankly, was not the same as all of you. However, I did not comment, as I have to "sit" with it a while, think about it, process it.......

So, to back you up, (not that you need that at all), to the member's post you answered, you have to read this thread on your own, beginning to end. There is no shortcut for it, where it went or what is still taking place……
Sincerely,
Tetra50
ETA: Hey, Kantzveldt: a few pages ago you asked The Gut if he could keep a secret. I think I may know your secret........

reply to post by Kantzveldt


This is the Key: communication is the prime imperative of life. From the cellular to the universal level, all things exist to exchange information. Contrary to what some may believe, there's a lot more to be said than, "I'm not food."

Here's another group taking a multidisciplinary approach to studying communication that transcends language.

Biosemiotics

Contrary to what some may believe, there's a lot more to be said than, "I'm not food."

reply to post by Eidolon23


I've been struggling to figure out a diplomatic, respectful way to say that all evening......thanks so much for that Eidolon23. After the food for thought comments, and sunflowers and the season to make sunflower seeds, added to all that "hippy love," as the Gut put it, much stated was quite beautiful, but for me, missed the point, especially when we are discussing in a thread titled, "The Language of Vampyr," for what is more exploitive than to live off another's life and therefore, blood. Not saying that FL is about that, but there is much occult in play here.

And, again, I cannot help thinking that with all we have all discussed, there is a website that is there, advertising itself, but "closed," unless you are a member, speak the language, with the goal of coming up with a way of communicating in a group not totally comprised of each other, but only understood by those that "belong." This, to me, is a defining premise.

To agree with you, which I could never have stated better, we live, breathe, experience to share and the means of doing this is communication. Without that, we are an island, unrecognized, unseen, unquantified, and thus, nothing exchanged, no progress, no fundamental learning even possible, for this happens by the sharing, which happens via communication......
Tetra50

Originally posted by tetra50

Contrary to what some may believe, there's a lot more to be said than, "I'm not food."

reply to post by Eidolon23

 

I've been struggling to figure out a diplomatic, respectful way to say that all evening......thanks so much for that Eidolon23. After the food for thought comments, and sunflowers and the season to make sunflower seeds, added to all that "hippy love," as the Gut put it, much stated was quite beautiful, but for me, missed the point, especially when we are discussing in a thread titled, "The Language of Vampyr," for what is more exploitive than to live off another's life and therefore, blood. Not saying that FL is about that, but there is much occult in play here.

And, again, I cannot help thinking that with all we have all discussed, there is a website that is there, advertising itself, but "closed," unless you are a member, speak the language, with the goal of coming up with a way of communicating in a group not totally comprised of each other, but only understood by those that "belong." This, to me, is a defining premise.

To agree with you, which I could never have stated better, we live, breathe, experience to share and the means of doing this is communication. Without that, we are an island, unrecognized, unseen, unquantified, and thus, nothing exchanged, no progress, no fundamental learning even possible, for this happens by the sharing, which happens via communication......
Tetra50

edit on 29-8-2013 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)

All conversations Wax and Wane, ebb and flow, especially good ones drop into other related subjects only to circle back to the original topic. Now when this conversation is with a large group things get repeated, reiterated, steered off topic or lost in translation. This does not mean that something that does not seem to have relevance to what is being discussed is irrelevant to the whole topic.

Also with conversation and language comes understanding as some opinions have changed. I have also noticed a change within Forgotten Languages the videos have been less disturbing with no violent imagery. What does this mean? Has the meeting with ATS caused this? Or is something else afoot?

reply to post by abeverage


Ok thanks for the reply, I guess I'll just have to dig and finish the thread.

For me so far the questions are to what ultimate goal are these linguists doing this? Surely this is government backed in some shadowy way, or at least part of a secret society? How the hell did this all start?

Many more too.

I hope to "find the answers"

All conversations Wax and Wane, ebb and flow, especially good ones drop into other related subjects only to circle back to the original topic. Now when this conversation is with a large group things get repeated, reiterated, steered off topic or lost in translation. This does not mean that something that does not seem to have relevance to what is being discussed is irrelevant to the whole topic.

Also with conversation and language comes understanding as some opinions have changed. I have also noticed a change within Forgotten Languages the videos have been less disturbing with no violent imagery. What does this mean? Has the meeting with ATS caused this? Or is something else afoot?

edit on 29-8-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

No doubt, my friend. I enjoyed a great deal of what was going on there, and wasn't trying to be overly critical. The title of the thread is always on my mind, I am afraid, and creates a certain prejudice I will admit to freely. Though I have no objection to the direction, in fact, some of it expressed, by AboveBoard, for instance, was quite beautiful. And the sharing of these ideas is, after all, what communication is about.

As to what I mean about the title of the thread: Assuming all life is made up of some sort of conscious energy operating on different levels, perhaps, and communicating in different ways, as possible, that is one thing. Sharing experience of that between all living creatures is a wonderful thought, in theory. It informs us as to our place in our environment, local and non local, really. Does that provide a greater respect for life, or does it provide for a more exploitive, food chain oriented environment...... Obviously the title leads me to those thoughts and down that road.

While expression and sharing are all important, I believe, I admittedly have my own sense of "horror" about a hive mind type of consciousness, for I see boundaries as important, too, to provide a discreet individuality, and not be "absorbed," as it were, into another's consciousness, nor share mine in ways or times I choose not to.
Nor would I wish someone else's conscious mind, which may be quite different from my own, enmeshed with mine. So, how do we "share" consciousness of life and living, without a language, an exteriorly expressed method for communicating, with an "anti-language," that would necessarily invovlve some kind of telepathy, as I understand it, really. And then how do you shut your mind when it's not appropriate to be sharing, or gives you pain, etc? Where is the boundary?

Also, I am disturbed by any group that seeks to achieve this only within a certain subset of people, while still being in the company of others not privy to that communication........Is that sharing of consciousness and experiencce, really? I can understand motivations to encrypt your work so it cannot be pledgarized, etc. But if you think about it, this would actually allow the opposite of that stated motivation, because if there are no discreet boundaries between consciousness expressed in different individuals, then there is little way to prove what idea came from where......

I am happy if the videos have calmed down on the graphic violence, very much so. But still wrestling with trust about the real endeavors here. It's also, though, in a sense, none of my beeswax..... They are welcome to pursue their research goals without my opinion.

This a learning and sharing experience for me, as for all of us, and I have heartily appreciated that.....make no mistake.
Tetra50

To my dear friend The GUT: Wow - "hippy love?" Um. Yikes. Not really what I was going for... I don't even like patchouli! (And yes, Abeverage, it is a Good conversation!) (And Tetra - thank you so much for mentioning my words, in your post, as being beautiful!)

I rarely jump in, and never will if I don't have something directly relevant to say - so, it was not, in my opinion, "missing the point," but a humble attempt to share something from the materials and, albeit brief, conversations I've had with Ayndryl, and information presented to me by Direne. (I don't quote from private conversations, and as it comes through my own filters, I don't want to claim my understanding as being theirs, if that makes sense, so I left them out of it...)

Bear with me...Allow me to try again, from a less tangential angle...

They are interested in autism - Why?

Some thoughts on this:
At least some people (if not all) with autism do not have the same brain structures that filter the senses the same way 'typical' people do. They are only partially functional. (Autism and the Edges of the Known World: Sensitivities, Language and Constructed Reality, by Olga Bogdashina - an author recommended by FL, Chapter 2 "Filtering Model")

We, it would seem, are the ones with "neurological walls" that we are trapped behind, not people with autism, and people like my son have a flood of information coming through them that takes longer to process, and makes it difficult to create symbolic language. And each person with autism may have a different delay or sensory experience they have to interpret. (This comes directly from Direne)

I illustrated this, rather than be direct, above, with my "pebble in the water" metaphor. So here: Imagine every "sunflower" (since we've also used that) you see is unique to you and incorporates the time of day, the angle of the sun, the breeze you are feeling, the taste of apple in your mouth, the entire setting in which the sunflower has been planted, whether or not you are physically comfortable, etc. How do you extract a symbol for every sunflower from this broad sensory experience? (Or like Temple Grandin - who thinks in pictures - the word "sunflower" would bring up every sunflower she has ever seen in a rapid slideshow.)

So, language (created by our brain's filters and cognition/desire to have shared experience, etc.) is a box that we wall things into in order to communicate the vastness of our experience. Or our conceptual experience, as my metaphor in posts above went, is many faceted, and gets broken into crude symbolic chunks when we try to express it with words.

Again: Why are they at FL interested in this? Perhaps to discover how the box is created, to break it down, to remove the filters down to the "ocean" of raw experience? To then be able to build something new and universal from that "source?" Greater minds than I can contemplate these questions, if they will; I've given my current thoughts.

All rivers lead to the Ocean, and the Ocean refuses no river...I am a river. My son is the Ocean.

peace to you,
AB

(worth it if you get past the commercial...but may feel like more "hippy love" - lol!)