The Language of Vampyr

Originally posted by Kantzveldt
reply to post by galadofwarthethird

 

Thus into the shadows of the forest we return...

Stupidity is clearly a distinguishing watermark of the Indo-European mind. By 're-inventing' agriculture, they invented borders and frontiers, that is, they discovered the concept of 'war'.


The typical Indo-Eurocentric statement could be this: 'early Indo-European warfare seems from the earliest myths and poetic traditions to have been conducted principally to gain glory—imperishable fame, a poetic phrase shared between Pre-Greek and Pre-Indo-Iranian'. It suits a retarded people to glorify war or, to be more specific, it suits the Indo-European's spirit to be... retarded.


The origins of the Indo-Europeans is an all-yawning extremely boring issue. it is more profitable for we all to study how and when can we expect those stupid Indo-Europeans to finally disappear.

edit on 30-7-2013 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

Hmmmm, linguists with difficulty grasping subject/verb agreement.......And it becomes obvious, too, that living an exploitive, parasitic existence off a population or species, while judging it to be inferior while perhaps even actively participating in making it so to justify that methodology of survival, is, well, just so brilliant....
not sure which line; must be that retarded Indo-European brain of mine.
Tetra50

OP: I have found this to be a very interesting thread. Thanks for that.

I'm curious, at what point does this thread become an invasion of these peoples privacy?
We are all big on privacy here, no?

Even after Direne came here and answered questions, some members feel they are entitled to know their business.

Have some tact people. Your not going to find out anything they dont want to tell you.

Is it just amusing to pounce on something you dont understand?

Lets not forget people, this thread was started on a false premise to began with.. Maybe some common decency is in order.

reply to post by Kantzveldt

It was all just dark clouds and smoke...

I guess I'll bite.

The archetypal attributes that were already established about chaos demons:
Whirlwind
Dark clouds
Smoke

Sometime during the period 900s-300s BC, a group of Amorites/Canaanites decided to form a culture distinct from their broader Semitic roots. For this, they needed a new deity and chose certain attributes to describe him.

Job Chapter 38 - WEB
1 Then Yahweh answered Job out of the whirlwind,
. . .
8 “Or who shut up the sea with doors,
when it broke forth from the womb,

9 when I made clouds its garment,
and wrapped it in thick darkness,

10 marked out for it my bound,
set bars and doors,

11 and said, ‘Here you may come, but no further.
Here your proud waves shall be stayed?’

I checked a couple of commentaries. The Yahweh character manifesting in a whirlwind is claiming to be the one responsible for setting the bounds of Chaos. Clouds and darkness are the containers. Yet that is how he also manifests quite frequently (Exodus myth) and how he inhabits his temple.

I Kings 8:10 It came to pass, when the priests had come out of the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of Yahweh, 11 so that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud; for the glory of Yahweh filled the house of Yahweh. 12 Then Solomon said, “Yahweh has said that he would dwell in the thick darkness. 13 I have surely built you a house of habitation, a place for you to dwell in forever.”

reply to post by pthena



It's true, and all the attributes Yahweh declares for himself in Job 38 were formerly related to Ea/Enki and his Abzu, but the origin of the Hebrews is concerned with Akkadian inter-marriage with Indo-European women of Northern Syria, see Genesis 29 regarding white sheep and speckled sheep and how to become a chosen people.

reply to post by Kantzveldt

all the attributes Yahweh declares for himself in Job 38 were formerly related to Ea/Enki and his Abzu

Over the decades, every once in a while, I have wondered what the heck the Brazen Sea of the Jerusalem temple was all about.

1906 Jewish Encyclopedia - TEMPLE OF SOLOMON
A Miniature World
.
The chambers which surrounded the Holy Place in Solomon's Temple are said in I Chron. xxviii. 12 to have been storehouses for the sacred treasure. These are paralleled in Babylonian and Egyptian temples by similar chambers, which surrounded the naos, or hypostyle hall, and were used for similar purposes. The "molten sea" finds its parallel in Babylonian temples in a great basin called the "apsu"(deep). As the ziggurat typified a mountain, so the apsu typified the sea. The Temple thus became a miniature world. This apsu was used as early as the time of Gudea and continued in use till the end of Babylonian history; it was made of stone and was elaborately decorated (comp. Jastrow, "Rel. of Bab. and Assyria," p. 653). In Solomon's Temple there was nothing to correspond to the hypostyle hall of an Egyptian temple; but this feature was introduced into Solomon's palace. The "house of the forest of Lebanon" and the "porch of pillars" remind one strongly of the outer and the inner hypostyle hall of an Egyptian temple.

Solomon's Temple was, then, a fine example of an Oriental temple. Although it had features in common with the temples of all the races kindred to the Jews, it combined those features in a new and independent way, so that the Temple at Jerusalem was one of the most interesting architectural products of the Hamito-Semitic religious life.

Abzu
In the city Eridu, Enki's temple was known as E2-abzu (house of the cosmic waters) and was located at the edge of a swamp, an abzu.[1] Certain tanks of holy water in Babylonian and Assyrian temple courtyards were also called abzu (apsû).[2]

As far as I can tell, the Akkadians, Canaanites, and Amorites were all Semitic. North Syria seems to have been an overlap area with the Hatti and Hittites (Indo-European) Jacob's concubines?

It seems that the way to be chosen people is to say that you are chosen and get other people to believe it. Propaganda rather than genetics.

reply to post by pthena



Yes that's something of a brazen give away. I think the time frame for Abram and place of origin would suggest Akkadian, but the most important evidence for Hebrew origins involves the region he departed to, Syria, and Ebla in particular at that period is interesting. There are records of Dynastic inter-marriage between the Semites and Syrians, but probably for another thread, maybe you start such?

susanwisebauer.com...


It is all about genetics in my opinion, tracing back to the core Neolithic region.

Originally posted by VelvetPawn
reply to post by galadofwarthethird

 

I agree. Pretty much beating a dead horse. They sure wont tell us anything else. Obviously they want to be private.

“Drink wine. This is life eternal. This is all that youth will give you. It is the season for wine, roses and drunken friends. Be happy for this moment. This moment is your life.” ― Omar Khayyám,

edit on 29-7-2013 by VelvetPawn because: (no reason given)

Well unfortunately I don't have any wine or I would take that advise. However I do have one beer in the fridge, I hid it way in the back some weeks ago. Your post just reminded me about it...Thanks bro. I would give you more stars for you post, but unfortunately I can only give you one.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird

Originally posted by VelvetPawn
reply to post by galadofwarthethird

 

I agree. Pretty much beating a dead horse. They sure wont tell us anything else. Obviously they want to be private.

“Drink wine. This is life eternal. This is all that youth will give you. It is the season for wine, roses and drunken friends. Be happy for this moment. This moment is your life.” ― Omar Khayyám,

edit on 29-7-2013 by VelvetPawn because: (no reason given)

Well unfortunately I don't have any wine or I would take that advise. However I do have one beer in the fridge, I hid it way in the back some weeks ago. Your post just reminded me about it...Thanks bro. I would give you more stars for you post, but unfortunately I can only give you one.

I am sorry, what exactly have you added to this thread?

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Well what can I say hindsight is 20/20. Them Indo-Europeans did for sure not implement in the best ways possible in fact many were complete failures. But the same will be said of all of us in time, especially when you have the advantage of never being there and just looking at everything in hindsight, making comments based on pottery fragments. They make there points, and in time there points will make them, and in even more time there points will unmake them.

And so it usually goes, running into the woods or whatever club they prescribe to. What can I say people need there hobbies and one of the major hobbies world wide is idol worshiping, it is the hip thing to do. It is how human groups operate, so if it be some god or demon, or religion, or club and cult, or even a crusty old rich dudes, something will eventually fill that void, and usually it does not matter much what it is, only that it needs to be filled. It seems to be how the human mind operates, looking for something to be at the helm. Least you know chaos ensues. Its kind of like if you and a group made a new form of tasty lemonade, and then coca cola comes in it sticks there sticker on your lemonade, cheapens it down to mass produces it, eventually it patents it so it would not have to pay you any royalties. Ah but the whole thing thereby it has now reached the pinnacle of lemonade and soda pop heaven, up there with the other greats such as diet cola, and cherry cola.

Dudes with torches standing around in the woods at night. Seems fun...For about 5 minutes, then it would be extremely boring, you may even start questioning what is the point and purpose of standing around at night in a circle with a stick that is on fire. It is a well known and documented fact that no matter which race or group they belong to usually when people get in groups they tend to do silly and stupid things. Hopefully they had that music playing to add to the atmosphere and not just in the vid, you know so they would not feel completely stupid just standing around with a torch. Music I had heard makes a great filler for when there really is nothing to say.

reply to post by Jonjonj

I gave you a star so that's something. I could also ask the same of you?

Music I had heard makes a great filler for when there really is nothing to say.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Then perhaps now is the time for music?

(Ashes, ashes... we all fall down)

reply to post by Jonjonj


You just quoted my contribution to this thread smart-guy.

So you would be the one who invalidates posts based on the amount people contribute?
Just how much of a contribution is acceptable for my post to be worthy?

Weak ad hominem attempt...

I was trying to point out tact, courtesy, decency and respect for other people.

Evidently these are values some people leave by the wayside when they login.

reply to post by Kantzveldt

There are records of Dynastic inter-marriage between the Semites and Syrians, but probably for another thread, maybe you start such?

I'll think about that. In the meantime, the link you provided to susanwisebauer.com... seems to give weight to my theory of propaganda and perception.
Notice the irony in Wise-Bauer's quote of Barbara Tuchman on her homepage:

I am a disciple of the ounce because I mistrust history in gallon jugs,
whose purveyors are more concerned
with establishing the meaning and purpose of history
than with what happened.
Is it necessary to insist on a purpose?
The lilies of the field, as I remember,
were not required to have a demonstrable purpose,
Why cannot history be studied and written and read for its own sake,
as the record of human behavior,
the most fascinating subject of all?

Barbara Tuchman

Then Wise-Bauer's book History of the Ancient World goes and repeats once again the pre-set, pre-formulated, pre-approved, pre-canonized purpose of History.

Plenty of races have claimed to trace their ancestry back to one particular god-favored individual, but this is the first time it happens within recorded history. By blood Abram was no different from the Semites around him, and not so different from the people who inhabited the land he was headed towards. But by divine fiat, he was separated from the rest and began something new: one Semite out of the rest, one God rising above the chaos of polytheism. He was the first monotheist.

Seriously? Recorded History? Then the Nephilim, descendants of the gods themselves, seem to predate Abram by a long shot.

Barbara Tuchman, granddaughter of Henry Morgenthau Sr., Woodrow Wilson's Jewish-American Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, had her own critics.

Criticism
In 1985, Saturday Review magazine named her one of the country's "Most Overrated People in American Arts and Letters," commenting that "over the years [she has made] an unhappy transition from writing history as a moral lesson to writing moral lessons as history.”[8]

reply to post by pthena



Yes it's not recorded history as such, more like reading between the lines and seeing the gist of it, accepted opinion often comes down to who has the best way with words though, with regards to both history and religion.



reply to post by galadofwarthethird




When you say words a lot they don't mean anything. Or maybe they don't mean anything anyway, and we just think they do.


Delirium, in Brief Lives

So i couldnt read all 68 pages in one sitting, got through about a third of it.

The first thing i examined on the site was the Slavic languages. They were obviously not gibberish in any way, shape or form but were genuine older but more obscure Slavic dialects. This was obvious form the consistent structure of the passages and in particular in the consistent translation of individual words in the Cyrillic scripts. There were also obvious Romany/Vlah dialects in there as well. It was obvious that one of the key contributors was of Balkan descent and had a strong working knowledge of the various slav and romany languages. Even the word vampyr spelled in that manner points to an eastern european/slavic influence (not hipsters as some in this thread thought; the vampire or vampir/vampyr legends have their origins in eastern europe with that spelling).

Of course after i worked that all out I got to the bit in the thread where some of the backgrounds of contributors were investigated, and sure enough it confirmed my reading. Could have saved myself some time!

My thought is that if they are examining ways that languages combine into new dialects, would this be for the purposes of being able to 'split' older dialects into component parts? There seems to be a fair bit of deflection on the site in this regard; for example the 'stupid indo-european' post suggests explicitly that it may be more fruitful to examine when the 'stupid' people will die out than the migration patterns. Given that at least one, and i would suggest more of the contributors, are actually 'stupid' indo-european in origin it leads me to believe that some of the English prose is there as mere distraction.

It may be that they are trying to form root languages as part of the project in order to re-examine artefacts and ancient languages that are at this point lost, with part of the journey being the formation of new languages to understand the process. Understanding the migration patterns of the indo-european races in particular would also be achievable and probably something worthwhile, given that there is still considerable uncertainty surrounding those migrations.

In any case, there is some serious linguistic and scientific firepower here.

Lastly, i cant help but have a slight conpiratorial bent on it all. Wouldnt it be useful to have a systematic way of identifying the origins of an individual to specific places through the computational analysis of their language patterns? If there is any kind of govt connection i would think it is something along these lines. If we have operations such as PRISM and the older Echelon there is masses of data to be able to sort through. I'd think that being able to intercept communications, translate and then somewhat pinpoint the locale of a dialect through the translation would be rather useful if you were, say, a govt agency looking for somebody in a foreign country known for having large numbers of localised dialects. Anyway that's my way-out-there suggestion not to be taken seriously.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


So this was a truly fascinating thread sparked by your find of the FL website. Good job, as usual, and in this case you birthed the most convoluted, thought provoking thread of the last few years on this site.

The random postulating, detective work, information, wide range of human reactions and group dynamics were riveting.

The real stars, though, were the folks from Forgotten Languages, who are remarkable savants doing interesting things.

The bombshell they dropped regarding Sumerian gods returning in two months was surprising... and I was bemused with how upset I became with Jay over his "ruining the revelation" for everyone by "chasing them off." I'm better now... but...

I'm left with a feeling of mild PTSD... and wonder if:

1) It was an experiment on group dynamics by and for unknowns.
2) It was a lark by savants toying with more gullible savants and idiots.
3) It was just as was represented in all it's complex wonder.
4) It is a murky mix of intelligence agencies, think tanks and/or hobbyists with indeterminate agendas (see 1).

Or all of the above... or a mix. If 3, then of course I would like to know more about their reasons and methods for believing they were in contact with other intelligences. The worlds of linguistic information opened alone was worth the price of admission, but now I am torn by curiosity over that "contact."

Even if it's incorrect or a game, I'd still like to hear the details... alas.

reply to post by Baddogma



Well that's a charming summary and thanks for it, i feel they are still communicating in a sense through their greatly increased video output, but watch those with caution.


reply to post by zvezdar


Your suggestion is probably the least way out on the thread and thanks. One would expect members who appear to have Balkan connections to be Indo-European, unless they were Romany or Jewish perhaps, maybe even Turkic.

reply to post by Kantzveldt

accepted opinion often comes down to who has the best way with words though, with regards to both history and religion.

Cassandra, unable to save her family, her city, or even herself in the end.

However, masters of PR-opaganda have managed much.

Between the lines, I get hung up on just what has been pulled off using mytho/religio/hagio-historiography. I think of a title occasionally:

The Biblical Roots of Anti-Semitism:
How to use genocide or at least the perception of genocide (Exodus-Joshua) in order to claim the title Semite as the proprietary property of your own exclusive club regardless of your actual genetic makeup, and then to use the acts of a counter ethnocentric movement (Nazi) in order to justify your own ethnocentric regime, and how to foster and use monotheism in order to convince the cattle that the domination of the World's political, economic, and social systems by your club are the legitimate will of "the one and only god".

But then, once the very long title is written out, what more is there to write?

"They have the Law and the Prophets, if they don't listen to them ..."

"out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham."

There's always someone out there doing it better.

vimeo.com...

reply to post by pthena



I put together a little more information on Namma here;

namma nap-har pi-riš-ti ilānimeš

"Namma, totality of the secret of the gods"


The name of Namma is written with the sign ENGUR , which is composed of the signs LAGABxHAL. These two signs in turn mean:

LAGAB = napharu " totality"
HAL = pirištu " secret

The Sumerian personification of ENGUR was female and called Nammu. God-lists and other texts describe her as 'the mother who gave birth to Heaven and Earth', 'mother, first one, who gave birth to the gods of the universe' or as 'Mother of Everything'. She is a goddess without a spouse, the self-procreating womb, the primal matter, the inherently fertile and fertilizing waters of the abzu. Nammu stands for the female sex as the one apparently able to create spontaneously, as expressed in the hymn to the temple of Eridu; 'E.engura, womb of abundance


It seems that only Namma has access to this secret place; she takes the tears of the gods there, for the gods cannot do so themselves. It is also only Namma who can bring things out from the secret place, for not only did Enki himself come from her womb, but so did mankind (made from clay brought up from the Abzu), and also Heaven and Earth (dama-tu-an-ki). Leick tells us that Namma is the dynamic creative aspect of Engur, whereas the Apsu is the inert physical element - thus Namma can be seen as an active intermediary between the normal world (Earth) and the secret world (Engur), bringing things down to it and things back up out of it.


An OB lexical list equates the Sumerian hal.an.kù, "secret of the pure heaven," with Akkadian ap-sú-ú-um, Ea's subterranean watery domain. Ea's sanctuary in Esagil was called é.hal.an.ki, "House of the Secrets of Heaven and Earth." Lastly and most interesting is an OB royal inscription from Malgium (RIMEP E4.11.1 Ipiq-Eštar) that attests a very revealing epithet for Ea.

8. wa-ši-ib ZU.-im be-el pi-ri-iš-tim
The one who dwells in the Apsu, the lord of the secret council

There was seemingly a Temple of Namma at Uruk were she was seen as the wife of An, there was also a Temple at Babylon during the Neo-Babylonian period relating to the cult of Marduk.






For Namma,
the wife of An,
Lugalkisalsis,
king of Uruk,
and king of Ur,
the temple of Namma,
he built.





Nammu, Apsu and Abzu


The God An

With regards to what Direne ;

This all means, switching back to Sumerian mythology, that we tend to measure time in a very funny way: the way we are used to. And we do this even when relativity theory is there for us to teach us not to take things for granted. So, yes, people "coming out" from Naama (we call it Nemma, it means "ocean") will come. The question is when?

It is the case that in Sumerian mythology people were understood as being born of Namma, in terms of silt that emerged and Enki fabricated into humanity, but of course Namma also gave birth to the Gods, and in the general sense she is the infinite cosmos.


Also with regards to the curious spelling Nemma;


Nemma, is another word for "nigga". it's just a safe term for white people to say, most african americans don't know what this means, just dont use it on a regular basis

"Damn did you see that big ole' nemma?"

Urban Dictionary


A little dark humour