The Language of Vampyr

reply to post by pthena


The plot thickens! Dum-Dum-Dummmm

Interesting find. Think we have a couple of leads now to follow.

reply to post by pthena


I found several matches to that name on that page. its basque for sure with some spanish translations.
I am assuming that with that last name "iglesias" that he is a spaniard who formed part of the team that discredited the find. I assume he is not very well liked by the basques who finally had tangible evidence of the antiquity of their tounge only to have it taken away abruptly.

I need to look into it more. my euskera is very bad and I am at work on phone....sooo when I get home I will try to read it slowly and see if I can find what you are talking about.


EDIT:

Autor: Dr. Hector Iglesias, filólogo, ex-investigador de IKER (Baiona) Tema: Informe sobre los textos en euskera, en latín y sobre iconografía.

Este nuevo estudio revisa en profundidad y contradice las tesis sostenidas por los expertos en filología de la comisión de Veleia.

El amplio y documentado estudio del Dr. en Estudios Vascos Héctor Iglesias, pone de manifiesto las inconsistencias e inexactitudes de la argumentación de los filólogos de la comisión, cuyos informes se utilizaron por la Diputación Foral de Álava como una ‘prueba irrefutable’ de la presunta falsedad de los graffiti veleienses.

Esta nueva investigación independiente pone en entredicho, científicamente, los postulados sostenidos por los miembros de la comisión, en especial, los de los profesores Gorrochategui, Lakarra y Velázquez.

www.sos-irunaveleia.org...

basically its what I thought. he is a spaniard who specializes in basque studies. he was a major player in fighting the accusations of the comission that discredited the find using what he says is a sound scientific process.

there is more of coarse but basically he found inconsistencies in the arguments based on the words being incorectly used or made up as well as the materials being out of date.

he is a major player AGAINST the discrediting of the find.

In light of this I guess his enemies if he had any are from the central governmemt which needs to shoot down all that basques claim historically since it can be used to make a case for separation from spain to the international community based on historical finds.

if they are recognized first as a culturally independent people from other Iberians then they can make a valid claim for sovereignty to world leaders of the UN.

France would not like that too much. This dr. hector iglesias has a sound argument. I would take to long to tr
slate a scholarly paper based on scientific observations, but from what I have read thus far he is on the right track. if he does have enemies, they would want to silence him quickly.

reply to post by tadaman

sooo when I get home I will try to read it slowly and see if I can find what you are talking about.

It goes back to what JosephPalasky quoted here:

. Comment by Roslyn M. Frank on December 30, 2009 at 5:53 a.m.
Hanger : From what you just said, you believe that this blogspot is nothing more than a joke, a joke, a joke. Herein I'm not in agreement. I assure you that the people working there know quite well what happened to Iruña-Veleia and Hector Iglesias. Also as I have had the manuscript "Notes on Proto-Basque" the Internet will come out as a book. Pdf but I can not say exactly when it will be available. Both appointments blogspot " Forgotten Languages "come from this book: ... Clearly it shows the narrow-minded mentality of professor Gorrochategui and, in particular the backwards mentality of the University of the Basque Country, uncapable to afford a serious analysis of archaeological, linguistics, and physical data. Irving Schalle, Notes on Proto-Basque

I get the impression that his work was being wrongfully discredited and that Forgotten Languages was part of the plot, maybe even taking his work and spinning it before it was even published. That's only my impression of what I see here.

Roslyn M. Frank

Roslyn M. Frank is Professor Emeritus in the Department of Spanish and Portuguese at the University of Iowa, specializing in Basque Studies, Cognitive Linguistics, European ethnography, ethnomathematics, ethno- & archaeo- astronomy, informational technologies & orality, ecocriticism, Spanish civilization & Culture and Spanish Women Writers.

reply to post by pthena


perhaps. I added more in my edit of my last point to this effect. I think you are right. It would be a huge set back for the spanish and french governments if euskera was given the title of one of the worlds oldest languages and cultures....


EDIT:
basically it would make a situation like that of Israel and palestine where palestine argued its recognition as a sovereign nation before the UN..being that it existed before the state of Israel existed ...it would make possible a strong argument for independence to the international community .....and since the basques have laid down their arms in favor of a more "legal" approach towards independence it makes sense.....

spanish intelligence services have been known to discredit the separatist movement before by acting in their name.

they even carried out assassinations during the constitutional restructuring of the country when ETA was widely supported for resisting Franco. ETA could have formed their own political party when franco died and would. have won much public support so the spanish intelligence community carried out assassinations in ETAs name to discredit them.

So I wouldn't put this past them.

reply to post by tadaman

they even carried out assassinations during the constitutional restructuring of the country when ETA was widely supported for resisting Franco. ETA could have formed their own political party when franco died and would. have won much public support so the spanish intelligence community carried out assassinations in ETAs name to discredit them.

So this is political intelligence and probably involves law suits, civil and legal charges etc.

JosephPalasky has attempted contact with the professor, so we'll see.

In the meantime consider:

1) 2006, Basque regional government paid 3.72 million euros for the archeological work. Did some of that go toward preset results rather than pure investigation?

2) The findings were not submitted to any scholarly journal or any serious expert assessment. Something like a non-critical series of PR press releases.

3) The inscriptions turned out to be a fabrication, as concluded by the 26 experts who analyzed the data for almost 10 months, and that went public on November 19, 2008.

4) Dr Iglesias and possibly Professor Frank are contesting the findings of the 26 experts.

What we don't know: Which side is Forgotten Languages on? The Central Government?

SOS Iruña-Veleia has pages in English. Just click the center tab for each page.



And Andryl's real life occupation is what exactly? Ananake: Judge? Expert Witness?

A Cautionary Tale

In The Word, a 1972 mystery thriller novel by Irving Wallace,
the protagonist Steven Randall, after uncovering the forgery, is left twisting in the wind after the people who hired him reach an agreement with the people opposed to the people who hired him.

Just saying, that's how stories go sometimes.

Perhaps I will re-read that book. It does seem to show something about the stakes when high levels of wheeling and dealing are involved, especially when it concerns Politics and Religion getting their finger prints all over academic research.

I'll post some more of the discussion - even Direne's name pops up amongst Ayndryl's name.

Comment by Salvador Cuesta on February 1, 2010 at 10:26 pm
Well, it seemed inevitable. IMPORTANT NOTICE . few months ago I put a question on a page of handwriting, PUBLIC FORUM ON GRAFOLOGIA Today, Direne , which is buddy or alter ego of Ayndryl and already dared to reveal the identity of Lykonius, sent a message to the forum. In principle no problem if it were not for this Direne, to enter a message in this forum, has used an email account with my name [email protected]. HAVE TO WARN EVERYONE THAT COST COBO SALVADOR HAS NO GMAIL MAIL ACCOUNT WITH THAT NAME AND RECEIVE ANY MESSAGE IF SOMEONE WITH THAT ACCOUNT TO AVOID TO AYNDRYL / DIRENE GET YOUR MAIL TO REPLY IN CONFIDENCE THAT I AM THE WRITING THE MESSAGE. PLEASE DO NOT OPEN ANY MESSAGE THAT COMES WITH ADDRESS AND DO NOT SEND ANY [email protected] MESSAGE TO THAT ADDRESS. Tomorrow I'll take a little walk by the Ertzantza (Police autonomic) to see if you can do something and, at least, warn of the use spurious my name.

Comment by Salvador Cuesta on February 2, 2010 at 24:09
Dear friends and IIM TA: I am compelled to write this note because I received veiled threats against my family and myself, expressed by Direne, using my own name to the email address you use. urges me to within three days delete messages allegedly insulting that I put myself and others in the blog IIM, (but do not tell me what or who to refer these messages). For him not to me and my family (children, wife and siblings) it "would pass bad". Meet several directions and even where I work. He says that "we will make a visit" if I delete those comments. 've put in the hands of the police the message in question and tell me that they will investigate and then judge will transfer to their search. Moreover I found that Direne / Ayndryl used my name for their maneuvers. Also the police (Ertzaintza) knows this (crime of usurpation of civil status). We find clear criminal activities that complete the big fraud Veleia. But this is beyond me and does not know other than the police report. warn people involved in these blog take extra care, especially those identified with his name. As sorry to be the one to warn of dangers!. Though police has assured me that the vast majority of these writings are mere bravado am very worried and sad. A cordial greeting to all people of good will. I would like Elisha both as Ruben Gil Cerda assure me that they are not the authors of these threats, and that if they suspect someone tell me who or who may be behind them. You can contact me at the following e-mail, which is already exposed to the vagaries of the public: [email protected]

Hi everyone s.
Upon ayndryl identity, I think yours is a personal thing, just say that I think it's a woman, and deserves my utmost respect (and admiration for what I'm reading).
gamineano sector (that palba not know of its existence until I heard them and they are very "seats" in the subject.)
But look on that book deal in forgotten languages ​​www.lotpublications.nl... . pdf gamineano book If I am Sotero (so you have to investigate it as well.) in that reference Come and you will see that it is a serious study, very seriously, tell me about the language, spoken south of Ethiopia (if Ethiopia of this part of the Via Lactea). now as there are people who know and are more ignorant than a fork, and think that belongs to the name of a star or constellation of Raticulín .. they continue in their heels. Maps and references are abundant and there is a methodology doubted that support ello.Al apropiada.Como PDF principle Promoter: Prof. dr. M. Mous Co-promoter: Dr. Azeb Amha Referent: Prof. dr. RJ Hayward (University of London, SOAS) Overige leden: Prof. dr. FHH Kortlandt Prof. dr. H. Stroomer Dr. CJ Rapold And since the introduction it shows with the rigor that is made. 1 Introduction 1.1 The Dime people The southern part of Ethiopia is the homeland of a remarkable variety of communities. Their Cultural and linguistic diversity results from a complex historical background, compounded by geographical and social differences. One of the communities inhabiting this culturally rich area is the Tell people. Greetings to all s. And my greatest respect and admiration for Ayndryl and taking part in UZ-traslations.

Iruña-Veleia Affaire: A Shame for Spanish Epigraphy

The lessons Spain did not learn from Glozel


Everything around the artefacts unearthed at Glozel, France, in the mid-1920s, turned the site into the "Dreyfus affair" of French archaeology. Similarly, the artefacts unearthed at Iruña-Veleia, Spain, have become the Spanish Dreyfus equivalent.

Despite the fact that the archaeological establishment has been seeking to resolve the issue by legal sanction, intimidation and surreptitious means, increasing scientific evidence is putting to shame that very pompous and self-righteous establishment.

In order to understand the Iruña-Veleia affaire, one must recall the so-called Glozel affair, for both run in parallel and only minor changes are perceived. Glozel was termed the "Dreyfus affair" of French archaeology, and the Dreyfus equivalent was Emile Fradin, a seventeen-year-old, who together with his grandfather Claude Fradin stepped into history on 1 March 1924, when the Fradins uncovered a cave containing human bones and ceramic fragments.

At Iruña-Veleia (Alava, Spain), during the 2005 and 2006 field campaigns a team of archaeologists, headed by Eliseo Gil, uncovered a series of finds which included pottery sherds and other artifacts, dating to around the third century A.D., with some remarkable graffiti scratched into them. Like at Glozel, this could have been perceived as simply a normal archaeological discovery, comprising around 400 pieces of pottery, bone, brick, and glass carved with graffiti, were it not because the language portrayed in some of the graffiti was ancient Basque. Note that prior to 2005, excavations of the site had already yielded around several hundred graffiti; therefore it was more than natural to find more such artifacts at the site.

While at Glozel the discovery was a matter of luck, and the discoverers were a farmer and his son, at Iruña-Veleia the discoverer was Eliseo Gil's team, a reputed archaeologist supported by experts in ancient history, epigraphy, and linguistics. At the Iruña-Veleia site the archaeological work was a well-planned and well-executed exercise.

In this story it is the figure of Joaquín Gorrochategui, a local professor of Indo-European linguistics at the Basque University, who plays the role of Breuil. He examines just a handful of pieces and concludes they were fakes, referring particularly to the graffiti written in ancient Basque, though he admitted that the data available about the Basque language of the third century AD is scant, not to say almost non-existent. Thus, early on a local professor of Indo-European linguistics declares the finds to be fakes, basing his conclusions on the scanty linguistic evidence available from the period and the hypothetical reconstructions of the Basque language developed by his university colleague Joseba Lakarra. And that happened just ten days after Gil's first press conference on the artifacts.

Obviously, the local professor was in a hurry of some sort.

In an interview given to Archaeology Magazine, the local professor Gorrochategui stated that in the end, what explains everything is that they are fakes. This is clearly a bad explanation for discoveries that do not fit the accepted scholarly paradigm, be it in the field of linguistics or whatever other field. Note the use of the word everything, which already gives us a clue about how the local professor perceives the world from within his tiny field of expertise.

In May 2007, the head of the Department of Euskera, Culture and Sports of the Provincial Government of Alava, Lorena López de Lacalle, a person with no academic curricula of any sort and who curiously enough does not even speak Basque, convened a panel of experts to investigate the finds. As in the best tradition of the Spanish Inquisition, the panel was called La Comisión. The commission was appointed to conduct further investigation into the matter, something which sounds reasonable. However, the members were appointed from among those who had already decided the Iruña-Veleia finds were fraudulent. Contrary to what one should have expected, the so-called Comisión was composed almost exclusively of local professors, all of whom belonged to the same university as Lakarra and Gorrochategui, and some of whom had already showed aversion and antipathy against Gil. It was an ad hoc panel made up of those professors who had already expressed doubts about the finds to the press.

The only member of Gil's team attending the commission’s meetings was Gil himself. This is what we call a commission à la Glozel.

The commission of local experts held its first meeting in January 2008 and, as expected, its conclusions were mostly dismissive of Gil's reports and findings as these challenged their carefully established and vociferously defended dogma on several levels. This group of clearly biased professors were all advocates, pleading for Lakarra and Gorrochategui's cause by using of every technique at their disposal.

Above was a mention of Roslyn on forgottenlanguages.org's site -> forgottenlanguages-full.forgottenlanguages.org...

And...

FYI, Prof. Roslyn never came back to me

reply to post by JosephPalasky


Wow interesting stuff you have pulled up, I"ve been in and out of this thread since its started. I must say this last little bit is very curious. Its seems ATS isnt the only interested party.

So, no response from the dr.?

"Today, Direne , which is buddy or alter ego of Ayndryl and already dared to reveal the identity of Lykonius, sent a message to the forum."

I do remember suggesting that I thought Andryl and Direne were probably the same person in this thread based on writing style. It heartens me to see that someone else seems to think it's possible too.

I also found the site - real one - for AyndrylRecords - ayndrylrecords.webs.com...

Originally posted by JosephPalasky
I also found the site - real one - for AyndrylRecords - ayndrylrecords.webs.com...

I really thought that that had aready been posted, as it leads to this one.

www.ayndrylrecords.forgottenlanguages.org...

You can see the all books link here, which seems to be just pictures of supposed books etc. Plus some other links not shown openly on the original site.

A buddy asked me to synthesize this sprawling 63 page leviathan into a a few paragraphs.

Oh, XXXX, I'll give it a shot.

A group of linguists and software engineers, some based out of Spain, some with US gov. ties, are developing an NLP (natural language processing) engine which has manifold possible applications- anything from generating a new Esperanto to cryptography to the other kind of NLP to cultural molding at the sub-linguistic level.

Smokescreen of dumb thrown up as a hurdle/test (vampyres, UFO's, etc.), lots of people don't get past that. More noise spun up (nationalism, academic pissing matches) for those who do, harder to see through as unlike the vampyr stuff, the nationalism and blue-stocking scuffles have a basis in reality. Also, the Basque angle keeps folks from looking further into the Russo/Scandinavian nationalist ties, which are, to my mind, a helluva lot more relevant and alarming.

But still distract from the central point.

Those who actually display an aptitude for decoding either get recruited (?) or point the developers toward the holes that need sewing up.

Oodles of sock activity, sad to see how easy it is to throw a new chunk of cheese in the maze and watch everyone scramble in the direction they've been pointed toward.

XXXX might have a different take, and I'd canvas XXXX as well, even though she has made what appears to me to be a seriously crap assessment of this group's professional status. Not amateurs.

Freelancers.

Originally posted by jonnyc55
Who posted a picture of a timeline and the zodiac in this thread ?

I did. Direne on her blog uses the symbol of the Star of David inscribing the symbol for Neptune. On a whim I did a cross-reference Google on those and found that. Since they were talking about Aliens and motherships and such I thought I would throw that out there see if they followed any of it.

I am just now revisiting it myself and since it is almost past July looks like no predictions came true lol. It is Astrology mumbo-jumbo but I was trying to gauge where FL was coming from. They are heavily symbolic and I am trying to determine why.

reply to post by Eidolon23



This is one of the reasons that I like you so much Eidolon.

In terms of amateurs, that assessment had no bearing on whether or not they are getting paid to do what they do, or whether they are professionals in other spheres, they are simply crap at implementing their theories, presumably because that isn't what they actually do, professionally. So, I was referring specifically to the 'experiment' that they attempted here, and the transparency of their methods. They were 'playing' with the membership, not demonstrating their professional methods, just gaming with it. Showing off if you will, when it backfired, they decided not to play anymore. Therefore, not very professional, amateurish...in fact, decidedly immature.

I do think that how they chose to 'experiment' gives away far more about their intentions, ideologically, and as in the ties that bind them in doing what they are doing together, and agree with your assessment in that respect.

reply to post by abeverage

A more stupid attitude is the one taken by Alicia Canto y de Gregorio, namely: if finds similar to those at Iruña-Veleia are ever unearthed anywhere else, then they, too, have to be fraudulent. Canto y de Gregorio, when exposed to the unromantic, pitiless light of reality, prefers to appear on TV programs, talking about fakes, ghosts, and aliens rather than publishing in serious academic journals whatever scientific objections she may have against the remarkable finds. It is clear that elements which refuse to fit into the inter-connected self-invented whole that these professors have mentally created and promoted, and which cannot easily be made to square with their interpolated explanations, are liable to be sloughed and forgotten, were it not because of the fact that there are other epigraphers out there ready to do real epigraphical research.

From the above story I pasted with the link to forgottenlanguages.org

Though, Alicia was on the other site arguing with professor Roslyn M. Frank while she was defending Ayndryl and Direne. You should read it - give you a broader perspective of it all.

See they found these artifacts which was discredited by the Basque University and a couple of other local professors stating that the finds were all fake.

However, Roslyn and a couple of other experts/professors from all over are arguing that they might not be and are in disagreement with how they University and a couple of other professors handled the situation - Spanish Academics.

So of course you have Roslyn on one side and a couple of others on another and both have a reputation which they do not want to lose. See if these artifacts turn out to be authentic that's going to put a lot of people in question.

I still can't figure out where Ayndryl/Direne and this strange web site fits in the whole thing and on which side of the fence they're standing. I'm assuming they're also in agreement that these findings are not fakes seeing as Roslyn was defending them in that forum.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Theres a paragraph in that story I posted saying there's a group of amateurs also involved in the whole thing trying to discredit the findings.

I also found a bunch of professional profiles relating to Ayndryl Reganah over the web - from UZtranslations to Gloria and other stuff. I've established shes a female - early 30's

One of them has the name Victoria - not sure of Ayndryl is merely an alias and her name is Victoria

I also found Ayndryl's photobucket - which was filled with pictures and videos relating to the site FL but after skimming through one of the videos I came across a photo -





Though, nowhere closer to discovering her real name and credentials.

Great find ^

Yeah she is Victoria i believe. I seen that on one of those translation websites. The profile name was ayndryl from madrid. It had a phone number and said to contact Victoria.


Hi Victoria! Put down the booze. Not very becoming of ladies.