The Language of Vampyr

reply to post by JayinAR

Actually I was really saying that looks can be deceiving, but they keep you interested for a few minutes more. Fortunately for me the vid was only a few minutes long, one would say it was right on time. So ya! make of that what you will. I do try to not take random vids to serious.

And every video on youtube that anybody has ever posted was saying something. Usually that something was mostly in the head one who posted it. If not! Well you do have that nifty button to tell them that your in concordance.

They also have the button. I think, maybe I should use that feature more often. In fact, I should go to the youtube page and give that vid the thumbs up. I mean how else would they know that some random person liked it? OK. Pointless jabber ending in 3...2..1.

I happen to have a list of folks... (this is completely made up, mind you)... that may be involved with FL that are here right now disguised as newly formed ATS members.

(this is fair game, FL. you bastards took out my connection to the outside world, remember?)

If I were to divulge this hypothetical list, how many would check said members' post history... ya know, to truly see where these peoples' attention lies?

reply to post by JayinAR


I'm always taking notes. A lot of this actually hits on some things I've been working on. I've been hunting for new and innovative ways of using language to communicate on multiple levels of awareness in storytelling. How to craft a better, more engaging, and more entertaining story. Looking for more precise communication structures. Ways of using fractal language to create various effects.

What surprises me is that I was expecting to become entangled in complexity but what I'm learning points the way to every shorter and simpler structure. And that makes a certain kind of sense. Looking back at the long and elaborate sentences of something from say David Copperfield down to the way Hemingway wrote (and beyond) seems to indicate that progression. (The attention span is just not there anymore.)

Twitter is particularly exciting at the moment watching how people are communicating and storytelling through it. A great deal of it is consumerism and noise (especially in the writing community. God, don't get me started.) But there is some amazingly innovative potential there.

Anyway, these thoughts collided with a recent realization about the power of pattern and repetition in culture. One of the lessons consumerism has taught me is if they bombard you with the same thing over and over again you will usually grow to like it. If they play the same ten songs all day on the radio, you'll like those ten songs. Which raises all kinds of questions about art. And about man's obsession with pattern which sparked the mystic in me.

But anyway... I'm not an intellectual by any means, so there is very little I can add to the kind of hard work people are doing trying to learn the content on FL's sight. I am very excited and eager to study and learn what I can. Margaret Magnus's work is particularly interesting from a writer's point of view. (Brotherman, I see that inflamed you as well. Quantum Aesthetics catches my attention. I'll be studying the literary and artistic works that fall into that category.

I agree with you. It is one of the best threads I've seen in quite a while. Everyone will be studying language for months. Why didn't they introduce it this way in school? I always tell people, if they would teach sacred geometry in school, the children would be much more interested in math. (Perhaps we will become telepathic indeed (through some interface) and can share our skills mind to mind. Then our children wouldn't have to mindlessly repeat everything over and over again and be bombarded with wasted time and effort.)

It's an exciting time to be alive as an artist and as a human. So much is changing. We're on the brink of amazing things that will explode into the mainstream in a very short time. I don't know where it will take us but it will be an amazing adventure.

Can these ideas lead to harm and damage? Yes. Will fleeing from them stop it? No. Prometheus leads the way as usual. There will be much gnashing of teeth about religion and stubborn clinging to belief. I'm not immune from this. I try to keep duality at bay with the tension between opposites. Believing in everything while at the same time believing in nothing. My intuition whispers that people create their own reality and we pull at each other as observers. There will probably be great collapse as the old tower falls. It will be the people who open themselves to great novelty that will be the innovators of the future. Part of that novelty may include meeting other observers from outside this planet. Strangely, I don't think we have to travel very far to do it.

As to my question about fear, thank you for being courageous and open. Just looking at your avatar though, you're already standing on the cliff with the sun at your back. Staring toward the water. Very interesting image, that.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


It sounds like you have a thirst for art.

Oh, damn. That was a 1-liner, wasn't it? It's very annoying not to be able to respond precisely.

reply to post by JayinAR


Have you checked the posts? I know there are a couple that I am following....


Thank you to EVERYONE that has helped with this post. This has taken me days to catch up but has been 100% worth it, thank you!

What an interesting thread. I have much yet to take in and read both in this thread and from the material this group has made available.

I just couldnt resist interjecting a hunch I have had for some time.

IMO, the ancient nilo-saharan languages and proto-basque have always appeared to me as being a strong link to a universal language. The cultures there would not have had to migrate as much as any splinter group that left and adapted its language and culture to their new environment and needs. I started my hunch when comparing Proto-Basque a while back to Ancient Saharan languages and found MANY common words. I first noticed it when going learning of Dravidian languages and looking for common origins to a world language. I am very pleased that somewhere an excellent group of individuals was able to work together to search for just that.

The Nilo-Saharan languages are a proposed family of African languages spoken by some 50 million people, mainly in the upper parts of the Chari and Nile rivers, including historic Nubia, north of where the two tributaries of Nile meet. The languages extend through 17 nations in the northern half of Africa: from Algeria to Benin in west; from Libya to the Democratic Republic of the Congo in the center; and from Egypt to Tanzania in the east.
Eight of its proposed constituent divisions (excluding Kunama, Kuliak, and Songhay) are found in the modern nation of Sudan, through which the Nile River flows. As indicated by its hyphenated name, Nilo-Saharan is a family of the African interior, including the greater Nile basin and the central Sahara desert.

Joseph Greenberg named the group and argued it was a genetic family in his 1963 book The Languages of Africa. It contains the languages not included in the Niger–Congo, Afroasiatic, or Khoisan families. It has not been demonstrated that the Nilo-Saharan languages constitute a valid genetic grouping, and it has been seen as Greenberg's 'wastebasket' phylum, into which he placed all the otherwise unaffiliated non-click languages of Africa.[1][2] Its supporters accept that it is a challenging proposal to demonstrate, but contend that it looks more promising the more work is done.[3][4][5]
Some of the constituent groups of Nilo-Saharan are estimated to predate the African neolithic. Thus, the unity of Eastern Sudanic is estimated to date to at least the 5th millennium BC. Nilo-Saharan genetic unity would necessarily be much older still and date to the late Upper Paleolithic.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Dravidian languages are a language family spoken mainly in southern India and parts of eastern and central India as well as in northeastern Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, and overseas in other countries such as Malaysia and Singapore. The most populous Dravidian languages are Telugu, Tamil, Kannada, and Malayalam. There are also small groups of Dravidian-speaking scheduled tribes, who live beyond the mainstream communities. It is often speculated that Dravidian languages are native to India. Epigraphically the Dravidian languages have been attested since the 6th century BCE. Only two Dravidian languages are exclusively spoken outside India, Brahui in Pakistan and Dhangar, a dialect of Kurukh, in Nepal.
Dravidian place-names along the northwest coast, in Maharashtra, Goa, Gujarat, and to a lesser extent in Sindh, as well as Dravidian grammatical influence such as clusivity in the Marathi, Konkani, Gujarati, Marwari, and to a lesser extent Sindhi languages, suggest that Dravidian languages were once spoken more widely across the Indian subcontinent

en.wikipedia.org...

also I would include the Dené–Caucasian super language family theory as a possible clue.

Dené–Caucasian is a proposed broad language family that includes the Sino-Tibetan, North Caucasian, Na-Dené, Yeniseian, Vasconic (including Basque) and Burushaski language families. The connection between the Na-Dene languages and Yeniseian languages has recently been accepted (see Dené–Yeniseian languages). The validity of the rest of the family is rejected or viewed as doubtful by most historical linguists

en.wikipedia.org...

books.google.com... i5S90#v=onepage&q=proto%20basque%20and%20saharan%20languages&f=false


We know that ancient India was responsible for much of the know how of civilization formed later in the east. Some even argue that ancient Chinese was a product of ancient sanskrit and ancient philosophies were the vehicle which drove the languages that adapted to communicate them. Even now China is trying to reclaim its connection to sanskrit. IMO The Indian sub continent had much more land to it as archeological finds indicate and complex civilizations spread farther south than we attribute. A connecting land mass inhabited by seafaring people would make possible for the spreading of a global language across much of the world in a time where much land mass was not yet sunken as we see it today. Malta, England, north and south America all had MUCH MORE land then we see today. If people were to travel the distance would be less due to more way points in between. Such places would have been essential to the organization of a global language.

Almost two millennia after the language first came to China through Buddhist scriptures, renewed interest in Buddhist studies and recent discoveries of long-forgotten manuscripts in Tibet have sparked a revival of the study of the ancient language among Chinese scholars.

Beijing’s Peking University has now launched an ambitious programme to train more than 60 Chinese students in Sanskrit, with the hope of creating a team of researchers to help translate hundreds of manuscripts containing scriptures that have been found in Tibet and other centres of Buddhism, such as Hangzhou in China’s east.

“There is a rich manuscript collection in Tibet, particularly. Many of the originals have not been recovered, and are only available in Chinese and Tibetan, so it is important for us to find a way to render them back into Sanskrit,” said Satyavrat Shastri, a renowned New Delhi-based Sanskrit scholar and poet, who is in Beijing this week as a visiting lecturer to meet and advise students and teachers here.

www.thehindu.com...



sites.google.com...

History of Sanskrit (Influence on other languages)

Influence on other languages

Indic languages
Sanskrit's greatest influence, presumably, is that which it exerted on languages of India that grew from its vocabulary and grammatical base; for instance, Hindi is a "Sanskritised register" of theKhariboli dialect. However, all modern Indo-Aryan languages, as well as Munda and Dravidian languages, have borrowed many words either directly from Sanskrit (tatsama words), or indirectly via middle Indo-Aryan languages (tadbhava words). Words originating in Sanskrit are estimated to constitute roughly fifty percent of the vocabulary of modern Indo-Aryan languages,[53] and the literary forms of (Dravidian) Malayalam and Kannada.[6] Literary texts in Telugu are lexically Sanskrit or Sanskritised to an enormous extent, perhaps seventy percent or more.

Sanskrit is recognised as a storehouse of scripture and as the language of prayers in Hinduism. Like Latin's influence on European languages and Classical Chinese's influence on East Asian languages, Sanskrit has influenced most Indian languages. While vernacular prayer is common, Sanskrit mantras are recited by millions of Hindus, and most temple functions are conducted entirely in Sanskrit, often Vedic in form. Of modern day south asian languages, Hindi, Nepali, Bengali, Assamese, Konkani, and Marathi still retain a largely Sanskrit and Prakrit vocabulary base, while Hindi and Urdu tend to be more heavily weighted with Arabic and Persian influence. The Indian national anthem, Jana Gana Mana, is written in a literary form of Bengali (known assadhu bhasha); it is Sanskritised to be recognisable but is still archaic to the modern ear. The national song of India, Vande Mataram, which was originally a poem composed by Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay and taken from his book called 'Anandamath', is in a similarly highly Sanskritised Bengali. Malayalam, Telugu and Kannada also combine a great deal of Sanskrit vocabulary. Sanskrit also has influence on Chinese through Buddhist Sutras. Chinese words like 剎那 chànà (Devanagari: क्षण kṣaṇa 'instantaneous period of time') were borrowed from Sanskrit.
Interaction with other languages

Further information: Silk Road transmission of Buddhism, Hinduism in Southeast Asia, Indianized kingdom, and

Sanskritisation
Sanskrit and related languages have also influenced their Sino-Tibetan-speaking neighbors to the north through the spread of Buddhist texts in translation.Buddhism was spread to China byMahayanist missionaries sent by Emperor Ashoka mostly through translations of Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit and Classical Sanskrit texts, and many terms were transliterated directly and added to the Chinese vocabulary. (Although Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit is not Sanskrit, properly speaking, its grammar and vocabulary are substantially the same, both because of genetic relationship, and because of conscious implementation of Pāṇinian standardisations on the part of composers. Buddhist texts composed in Sanskrit proper were primarily found in philosophical schools like the Madhyamaka.) The situation in Tibet is similar; many Sanskrit texts survive only in Tibetan translation (in the Tanjur).
In Southeast Asia, languages such as Thai and Lao contain many loan words from Sanskrit, as do Khmer, Vietnamese to a lesser extent, through Sinified hybrid Sanskrit. For example, in Thai, the Rāvana—the emperor of Sri Lanka is called 'Thosakanth' which is a derivation of his Sanskrit name 'Dashakanth' ("of ten necks").

Many Sanskrit loanwords are also found in Austronesian languages, such as Javanese particularly the old form from which nearly half the vocabulary is derived from the language.[56][57] Other Austronesian languages, such as traditional Malay, modern Indonesian, also derive much of their vocabulary from Sanskrit, albeit to a lesser extent, with a large proportion of words being derived from Arabic.

Similarly, Philippine languages such as Tagalog have many Sanskrit loanwords, although more are derived from Spanish.
A Sanskrit loanword encountered in many Southeast Asian languages is the word bhāṣā, or spoken language, which is used to mean language in general, for example bahasa in Malay,Indonesian and Tausug, basa in Javanese, Sundanese, and Balinese, phasa in Thai and Lao, bhasa in Burmese, and phiesa in Khmer.

historymadeof.blogspot.com...


www.authorsonline.co.uk...

www.buber.net...

Some Examples of the sanskrit origins of Basque, (euskera)

abide v. i.

Origin
Indian Tamil iru ‘be’, ‘exist’

Indian Connection
euskara (Basque) iraun ‘abide’

abiding adj.

Origin
Indian Tamil iru ‘be’, ‘exist’

Indian Connection
euskara (Basque) irateteko ‘abiding’

ablaze adj.

Origin
Indian Tamil sudu ‘heat’

Indian Connections
euskara (Basque) sudun ‘heated’
euskara (Basque) sutsu‘ablaze’

One Indian Tamil consonant has both dand t sounds. So sudu can be pronounced as sutu too. Thus Tamil sudu becomes euskara (Basque) sutsu.

to abolish v. t.

Origin
Indian Tamil kenhdu po ‘take away’
Tamil po means ‘go’.

Indian Connection
euskara (Basque) kendu‘to abolish’

Please see Simple Pronunciation Guide about pronouncing the unique Indian nh sound.
Since euskara (Basque), Spanish, German and English do not have the unique nhsound, simple n sound is used.

aborigine n.
Origin
Indian Sanskrit jaathi ‘caste’

Indian Connection
euskara (Basque) jatorrizko ‘aborigine’
rsound added to Sanskrit word

Hindi gaadibecomes euskara (Basque) gurdiand Sanskrit vaada becomes English word likewise.
d is our symbol for soft dsound as in this.

www.authorsonline.co.uk...

and there is the work of Dr. N. Lahovary to consider.

SAHARAN LANGUAGE *
[Contacts]

It has been suggested that an ancient Saharan language was used by linguists to invent all the "Indo-European" and Semitic languages, including Sanskrit, Greek, Latin, German, Hebrew, Yiddish etc. (Nyland 2001). This was done with the use of different formulaic manipulations of the Saharan vocabulary, creating largely invented (non-genetic) language "families". Nyland has now proposed several hypotheses and a theory on the origin of these languages (see Theory). In Genesis 11:1 this language is said to be spoken in the whole world, and therefore should be called the Universal Language, which had been the language of the first civilization on earth, located in North Africa and the Near East. It is still spoken in an altered form by the Dravidians of India, the Basques of Euskadi and the Ainu of Japan. In Genesis 11:7 we are told: "Come, let us confuse their language that they may no longer understand one another's speech". The clergy of both Judaism and Christianity considered this a biblical command and have spent an enormous, and long sustained effort to enforce this belief. The formula used by them in most of the artificially constructed vocabularies is called the "vowel-interlocking" or "VCV formula". Because the Basque language is the closest to the ancient Saharan language and has the best English dictionary, this will be called Basque from now on. In most cases, the first 2nd, 3rd or 4th letters of each Basque word were agglutinated into a new word (agglutinate = to unite or combine into a group) . After this was done, some or many of the vowels and h's were removed according to a plan to give the new words special characteristics. In Hebrew most, if not all, of the vowels were removed for writing, but not for speaking. For example, Talmud, was spelled 'lmd' but pronounced 'tal-mud', from Basque tala - mudapen, watch out - alteration: "Watch out for alteration", which is basic to an oral law.
It is the task of the linguistic archaeologist to look at languages before the invention of writing, to search the very roots of such languages; the subject could also be called pre-historical linguistics but that name would still be part of the fortress called linguistics. To make this process at least plausible, other disciplines such as religion, mythology, archaeology and historical linguistics must be included, while earlier research and hypotheses in this field should be carefully re-examined.

Many languages, including such early languages as Hebrew and Sanskrit, were created by formulaic manipulation of Basque vocabulary. However, the name Basque, or more accurately Bask because there is no Q in the language, did not exist at the time this language invention was done. There must have been an earlier form of this language available to the linguists doing this manipulation. But where did it come from and what was it like?

The research done by Dr. N. Lahovary and published in his book "Dravidian Origins and the West" shows conclusively that Basque and the old Dravidian languages of India are closely related. Nyland’s research into the Ainu language of Japan shows the same. The Ainu are thought to have been isolated in the Far East for as long as 8,000 years, yet they retain an early, non-agglutinated, form of Saharan, thus the original language must have been very old. These startling finds seem to indicates that the precursor of the Basque language was spoken very early in Europe, Africa and Asia, just like Genesis 11:1 tells us: "Now the whole world spoke one language". Nyland suggested that the forerunner of the Basque, Dravidian and Ainu languages was the Saharan language and that the language spoken in the beautifully painted cathedral caves in southern France and northern Spain was an early form of the same. However, this early form of the language cannot have been the one used by the early religious scholars doing the inventing of new languages such as Sanskrit. They used a later, manipulated, form that was constructed with agglutination. It employed the vowel-consonant-vowel interlocking principle.
That many words in the Saharan/Basque vocabulary are artificially assembled is obvious from words like alkar, meaning mutual. It comes from three Basque roots: al-ka-ar:

al. - .ka - ar.
ala - aka - are
alai - akatsbako - arreman
happy - perfect - relationship
"A perfectly happy relationship".

This is a very good definition of the meaning: 'mutual'. Applying the same system of analysis to other words, it becomes clear that thousands of Basque words have been similarly assembled using the VCV vowel-interlocking system, but not all. Underneath this artificial vocabulary lies a non-invented, non-agglutinated Basque language, but how can this be explained? Is it possible that this substratum Basque language is still spoken somewhere?

THE MEANING OF SAHARA

The Basque word zahar means old, and the name Sahara could therefore be interpreted as "the old country", but the Basque ‘z’ and the ‘s’, which is pronounced as ‘sh’, are quite different letters so zahar may not be the origin of the name Sahara. However, there appears to be another meaning embedded in "Sahara". It is analyzed as:

.sa-aha-ara.
esa - aha - ara
esan - ahalguzti - aratz
to say/speak - Almighty - pure/refined
"The speech of the Almighty is refined"

Could this interpretation of the name mean that the original language had been refined or developed by early linguists? The logical and highly organized structure of the Basque language surely seems to support this possibility. The name used by the Basques for their own language is "Euskera", analyzed as:

eu - us. - .ke - era
eu - usa - ake - era
euki - usaiako - akela - erabildura
to retain/preserve - usual/traditional - goddess - usage/speech
"We preserve the traditional speech of the Goddess".

www.faculty.ucr.edu...


I am sorry for going on a tangent. I am excited to start reading some of the material offered thus far by everyone but I feel I will explode if I dont get that out. I have been looking forward to expanding on this Idea for some time.
I will try to catch up and add some more later.


EDIT:
Just a thought of an example....

remember this....."Similarly, Philippine languages such as Tagalog have many Sanskrit loanwords, although more are derived from Spanish.
A Sanskrit loanword encountered in many Southeast Asian languages is the word bhāṣā, or spoken language, which is used to mean language in general, for example bahasa in Malay,Indonesian and Tausug, basa in Javanese, Sundanese, and Balinese, phasa in Thai and Lao, bhasa in Burmese, and phiesa in Khmer.historymadeof.blogspot.com...

basa...bahasa....

and

".sa-aha-ara.
esa - aha - ara
esan - ahalguzti - aratz
to say/speak - Almighty - pure/refined
"The speech of the Almighty is refined""

SA
esa....esan.....asa bhasa

the spoken word.....to speach.....esa/ esan...basa/bahasa
sa aha....asa....

"S"A- A.... The "word /language" of God.....Taken in a Cabalistic /I Ching understanding...the language of the universe /creation. A....The first word spoken.

reply to post by LeConnea

Margaret Magnus's work is particularly interesting from a writer's point of view.

Absolutely! She is a terrific writer!
I hope to get through this dissertation tomorrow and then move on to see what else she has written.

Thank you for the meaty reply.
I tend to consider myself an artist of various sorts as well. Writing is one such medium.
I asked for a writer status here on this board, but never got a reply message. I guess my character is too much in question (as evidenced earlier on in this thread).

At any rate, I was quite intrigued by the mention of quantum physicists working at FL. That is some heavy duty stuff. They have a very low membership number. In order for people like that to be working with a group that small, you can rest assured they are working on something BIG.
My friend and I disagree on where the meat is, but it is there.

The picture?
That isn't me. That is a photo I took of a friend of mine while on a hiking trip on the Upper Buffalo Wilderness a few years back now. (several actually, by god I feel old).
One of my favorite photos. And THANK YOU for the kind words regarding. As I said, it is one of my favorites and yeah, we were out there. This place is called "big bluff". It is the tallest bluff between the Rockies and the Appalacians. It is also the best hiking trail in the world, near as I can tell. 500' tall bluff with a ledge that runs along the face at about 375'. It is only slightly wider than a sidewalk. Pretty awesome place.

reply to post by LeConnea



It's an aspect of my research into archetypes found in Sumerian mytholgy, i decided to run some practical tests, that's all.

Inanna called to her servant Ninshubar, saying:
"Come Ninshubar, once you were Queen of the East
Now you are the faithful servant of the holy shrine of Uruk.

My sukkal who gives me wise advice,
My warrior who fights by my side,
Save the Boat of Heaven with the holy me!

Goodnight everybody.
Geeze, it is almost sun-up.
Kandtz, I know you asked me to leave the thread, but I decided to ignore that request.

I am not done here.
I am working hard for your thread.

Not quite following your line of reasoning, but I hope you will allow me to participate a little longer.
Props to you. Great thread!

Originally posted by LeConnea
reply to post by JayinAR

 

I'm always taking notes.

A lot of this actually hits on some things I've been working on. I've been hunting for new and innovative ways of using language to communicate on multiple levels of awareness in storytelling. How to craft a better, more engaging, and more entertaining story. Looking for more precise communication structures. Ways of using fractal language to create various effects.

What surprises me is that I was expecting to become entangled in complexity but what I'm learning points the way to every shorter and simpler structure. And that makes a certain kind of sense. Looking back at the long and elaborate sentences of something from say David Copperfield down to the way Hemingway wrote (and beyond) seems to indicate that progression. (The attention span is just not there anymore.)

Twitter is particularly exciting at the moment watching how people are communicating and storytelling through it. A great deal of it is consumerism and noise (especially in the writing community. God, don't get me started.) But there is some amazingly innovative potential there.

Anyway, these thoughts collided with a recent realization about the power of pattern and repetition in culture. One of the lessons consumerism has taught me is if they bombard you with the same thing over and over again you will usually grow to like it. If they play the same ten songs all day on the radio, you'll like those ten songs. Which raises all kinds of questions about art. And about man's obsession with pattern which sparked the mystic in me.

But anyway... I'm not an intellectual by any means, so there is very little I can add to the kind of hard work people are doing trying to learn the content on FL's sight. I am very excited and eager to study and learn what I can. Margaret Magnus's work is particularly interesting from a writer's point of view. (Brotherman, I see that inflamed you as well.

Quantum Aesthetics catches my attention. I'll be studying the literary and artistic works that fall into that category.

I agree with you. It is one of the best threads I've seen in quite a while. Everyone will be studying language for months. Why didn't they introduce it this way in school?

I always tell people, if they would teach sacred geometry in school, the children would be much more interested in math. (Perhaps we will become telepathic indeed (through some interface) and can share our skills mind to mind. Then our children wouldn't have to mindlessly repeat everything over and over again and be bombarded with wasted time and effort.)

It's an exciting time to be alive as an artist and as a human. So much is changing. We're on the brink of amazing things that will explode into the mainstream in a very short time. I don't know where it will take us but it will be an amazing adventure.

Can these ideas lead to harm and damage? Yes. Will fleeing from them stop it? No. Prometheus leads the way as usual. There will be much gnashing of teeth about religion and stubborn clinging to belief. I'm not immune from this. I try to keep duality at bay with the tension between opposites. Believing in everything while at the same time believing in nothing. My intuition whispers that people create their own reality and we pull at each other as observers. There will probably be great collapse as the old tower falls. It will be the people who open themselves to great novelty that will be the innovators of the future. Part of that novelty may include meeting other observers from outside this planet. Strangely, I don't think we have to travel very far to do it.

As to my question about fear, thank you for being courageous and open. Just looking at your avatar though, you're already standing on the cliff with the sun at your back. Staring toward the water. Very interesting image, that.

Amazing post, every paragraph was close to my feelings on the matter.

What surprises me is that I was expecting to become entangled in complexity but what I'm learning points the way to every shorter and simpler structure.

And how right you are.

Nature is complex. We like to explore the complexity but nature prefers simplicity, how do I know? We are happy when there is gratification for the present, reaching that state is hard without the acceptance of simplicity.

I thought I would add this as well since I feel it is connected. I have always been intrigued by neanderthal and see them as being the teachers of ancient man. Their elongated and large skulls, blond and red hair and the descriptions of the Gods across the world giving man knowledge of all things including speech...The preference of the God kings of old to have certain traits like red or blond hair or long skulls. The connections to mythology and folklore of mortal men being the husband men of red haired goddesses, the nature of our DNA having traces of predominantly female neanderthal DNA. Ect....

If such a global language did exist it may have a single source instead of being a product of many sources converging.

There is this.

When you picture Neanderthals, you might imagine subhuman brutes grunting -- but new research suggests these ancient hominids were more articulate than previously thought.

A recent paper, authored by Dutch scientists at the Max Planck Institute of Psycholinguistics, argues that not only did Neanderthals and modern humans interact and interbreed -- but they also likely shared some elements of speech and language.

In fact, this new research claims that modern language and speech date back to the most recent ancestor we shared with the Neanderthals, Homo heidelbergensis. And it's even possible that the languages we speak today retain some elements of Neanderthal language.

"We suggest that if Neanderthals had something like modern speech and language, and that we did interact with them, then maybe mod languages have some trace of that language," Dr. Dan Dediu, psycholinguist and one of the study's lead authors, told The Huffington Post.

By pointing to ancient DNA and new archaeological discoveries, the linguists suggest that language developed through a gradual Darwinian process of both biological and cultural evolution -- rather than, as another popular theory states, through one or just a few random genetic mutations.

If this new theory is correct, the team's findings could push back the origins of modern language by 10 times what was previously thought.

While many believe that modern language began around 50,000 years ago, the paper names a period about a million years ago as the beginning of modern language -- some time between the emergence of our genus, Homo sapiens (around 1.8 million years ago), and the emergence of Homo heidelbergensis.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

and there is this to consider. Genetically Neanderthal had speech as well as everything else culturally we once thought was exclusively a product of cro-magnon and modern humans. They had EVERYTHING we attribute to a complex society in one form or another. It stands to reason that if a global precursor language ever existed that they would have been the ones to teach it to us or at the very least influence later variations.

Neanderthals, like modern humans, likely communicated among themselves and with others using tonal languages.

New research, published in the journal Frontiers in Language Sciences, presents strong evidence -- genetic, fossil, archaeological and more -- that modern speech and language existed among Neanderthals, Denisovans (a Paleolithic type of human), and early members of our own species.

“Modern humans and Neanderthals and Denisovans are very similar genetically, and there are indications of interbreeding as well, strengthening this similarity,” lead author Dan Dediu told Discovery News, explaining that a gene involved in language and speech, FOXP2, is present in all three groups.

Neanderthal genes also suggest that the stocky, yet brainy, individuals possessed tonal languages, since there is an association between tone and two of their genes involved in brain growth and development.

Dediu is a senior investigator in the Language and Genetics Department and is group leader of Genetic Biases in Speech and Language at the Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics.

In addition to outlining the DNA evidence, Dediu and colleague Stephen Levinson also explain that Neanderthals possessed a human-like hyoid bone, which is involved in speech production. Neanderthal ear bones further appear to have evolved for hearing speech in addition to other sounds, just as ours have.

news.discovery.com...

Researchers studying the fossil skulls of humans and the primitive creatures that came before them have taken a new step toward solving one of the major puzzles in the story of mankind's evolution:

Just when did we learn to speak?

Generations of anthropologists have believed that true language -- so crucial for peoples to work together and build cooperative societies -- came only with the evolution of modern humans, little more than 40,000 years ago.

Now, however, scientists at Duke University say the evidence from tiny bones in the oldest skulls of Homo sapiens, and of the Neanderthals who evolved before them, shows that the capacity for speech may have developed much, much earlier -- perhaps nearly 400,000 years ago.

The new evidence for early speech is tentative and likely to stir controversy. It is based on features of a single type of bony structure in the base of the fossilized skulls of modern humans and Neanderthals compared with similar structures in the skulls of modern apes, as well as far more primitive human-like creatures that evolved millions of years earlier.

But the evidence also supports a dramatic discovery made a decade ago, when Israeli anthropologists found a different bony structure in a group of fossil Neanderthal skulls indicating that the anatomy of their throats could well have allowed them to utter the vowels and consonants of true speech.

www.sfgate.com...

www.fau.edu...

consider this....A language consisting of high pitched vowels and few consonants coming from large, powerful resonanting chests in nasaly thick people would sound like buzzing.

We see a common trend of a core language consisting of pure sounds, vowels mostly, being adapted and evolving over time by different cultures who add consonants and other structures to their language so as to standardize its grammar so to make its written communication more conducive to conceptualizations of the abstract, be it past or future tenses or an idea unseen before in a physical manifestation of any form.

A culture like that of Neanderthal possibly would not focussed on making those lingual changes or abstract ideas being communicated into particulars like for example "tomorrow" being expressed by a series of words for an exact time instead of an exact time being a particular base sound used in conjunction with another in an understood way so as to mean such.

Here is an example of what I mean:
If "3 weeks" = 21 days. 21 is the understood amount 3 weeks has in days because it is known that a week has 7 days.

"3 moons" ago could mean the same with nothing required to be understood before hand if all you are counting is a visible marker like a particular moon phase. That phase is all that needs to be agreed upon. The difference is that in order for a large society that has greater needs to function to survive it must be effective at adapting to greater levels of organization.

If the moon is no longer visible from your new environment you moved into or your environment changed to, then your ability to keep track of time will have to rely on more understood concepts instead of basic to the point words.

"moon" needs no more words to be understood to allot a set amount of time once agreed on by all....where as "week" needs the word "day"....its a concept dependent on another concept. Abstract based on Abstract.

if both "moon" and "week" were spoken with a simple sound like "EA" we would have to break down "week" to distinguish the word "day" we now need to incorporate because the moon is no longer visable....so EA becomes Ek, or Es, or Er. ect. When writing it instead of just pointing at it in the sky or drawing it on a wall, we open up the possibility of further breaking it down to distinguish it from other additions we may make out of necessity.

so day may need to sound different from half day...so maybe Ek becomes Eke or Ese ect....and it all started from a common EA sound....

I think then that the original language was one of pure sounds, vowels mostly that were used in conjunction with each other based on concrete ideas. Consonants are needed to distinguish one abstract idea from another.

I hope that makes sense....

EDIT:
check this out.

Rephaites.

In the Hebrew Bible, "Rephaim" can describe an ancient race of giants in Iron Age Israel, or the places where these individuals were thought to have lived. See: Gen 14:5, 15:20; Deut 2:10-11, 2:18-21, 3:11; Josh 12:4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15, 18:16; 2 Sam 5:18, 5:22, 23:13; 1 Chron 11:15, 14:9, 20:4. In the biblical narrative, the Israelites are instructed to exterminate the previous inhabitants of the "promised land," i.e. "Canaan," which include various named peoples, including some unusually tall/large individuals. See the passages listed above in the book of Joshua, and also Deut. 3:11, which implies that Og, the King of Bashan, was one of the last survivors of the Rephaim, and that his bed was 9 cubits long in ordinary cubits. (An ordinary cubit is the length of a man's forearm according to the New American Standard Bible, or approx. 18 inches, which differs from a royal cubit. This makes the bed over 13 feet long. Anak, according to Deut 2:11, was a Rephaite.

The area of Moab at Ar, (the region East of the Jordan) before the time of Moses, was also considered the land of the Rephaites. Deuteronomy 2:18-21 refers to the fact that Ammonites called them "Zamzummim", which is related to the Hebrew word זמזם, which literally translates into "Buzzers", or "the people whose speech sounds like buzzing." In Arabic the word زمزم (zamzama) translates as "to rumble, roll (thunder); murmur". As in Deut 2:11, the Moabites referred to them as the Emim.

en.wikipedia.org...


About morphology and the drift of language over time.....
www.janestudies.org...(2006)_Hieda.pdf

Language to me is used as an anchor for a state of mind.

I conjured my own word "culmea" from when I was happy. I produced this word as a mixture of pronouncing the feeling of ascension to happiness and its state. Now my own personal word reminds me of my experience.

However I don't think its a coincidence that when I googled my word , the pages and websites I visited were translated from Romanian to English. It seems my word isn't a new one.

Now didn't FL like the Romanian language and wasn't it discussed by them ? Is Romanian a language that eludes the feeling of fear?

Anyone can create a language, we was born to utter noises in accordance to our state.

The term "hmmm" matches the wondering wavy feeling when something escapes us.

When you're not feeling right then you must act in the best way from your memories.

Nvm the names change when you translate

very odd indeed. Direne - Irene and ... "with" ?

reply to post by glowdog


Yea I realized it was different because it was a translated page. Those changes were
Because google recognized it as welsh

The music industry attempts to improve well-being and remind people of their power through assimilation. The music industry address's links and ties to false hope while adding an alleviating symphony or rhythm. Not much can be done for hushing peoples discourse directly, without adding further discourse. The only way is to showcase a median that actuates the birth of terror or loss of gratitude, in the hope of acceptance for what has been done. Any form of acceptance would provide a channel for a new outlook.

The world is filled with contagious slander. Music is a great medicine for this.

See this website rocketer.com...

Their name is a make-up of rock and tree.

The words rock and tree resemble the hardships and time span we must cope with in order to succeed and for us to feel ourselves again.

Take note of their partners as-well.

Their technology:

Our suite of proprietary technologies enable us to take a highly scientific approach to advertising. Partnering with world-leading companies such as Yahoo!, Google, Acquisio and Facebook gives us unparalleled access and insight into each channel as well as how they can be made to work together.

The bold part is especially interesting. I have noticed how nearly all adverts on the TV include a theme of making light of perceived dogma. Furthermore, the theme also includes highlighting a persons failure at recognising potential.

Originally posted by Eidolon23

Originally posted by Jonjonj
reply to post by JayinAR

 

To be honest I have no interest in if they have money or not, in fact I have no interest in anything at all about them now but the intelligence they have shown. It's like a magnet, and makes me wonder WHY the dark side? No idea about that at all, things beyond my scope, and intelligence, and maybe even morality I guess. Fascinating.

I hate to be a tool, but if you fail to see the profit angle and take it into account, then the "dark side" isn't going to make much sense. How better to obscure a money trail (or rather, any interest in tracking it) than by throwing up a cloud of disagreeable imagery?

The only ones who will be interested are the ones most vulnerable to rehashed folk tales.

Unless they are really straight-up reppin' Chaotic Evil and just wanna deconstruct what makes us human for the hell of it.

Oh no, you misunderstand me, my point is that I personally have no interest in whether they are interested in money or not, that's all I meant.

I know its silly but I made another word in my head, "gurtateme". If you want to know, its a pronunciation of merging carelessness with care.

Like my last word, google search of my word showed a Romanian website. There was only 1 result and it was Romanian.

So what the hell guys !? My two made up words cropped up Romanian websites. What gives .

If you're remotely interested in my ordeal, here is the only result I got from google:

Use cached version of site or wont work.

It is most bizarre. I googled the author of the document Vianu. He is interested in the theory of query languages.

Be careful this document on query languages is heavy Query Languages

You may be thinking, what is he getting at with query languages? Well we've discussed sound, shapes and colour related languages so I guess this can also make itself at home here.

In conclusion, how the hell did I manage to find this with making a word up in my head? And how did I manage to create two new words that are both tied to the Romanian language? FL.org might be secretive but I got the gist of this language case on my own.

reply to post by jonnyc55


Maybe you were a Romanian in past life or something?

Too bad our FL friends aren't here; they'd have an explanation for you.

Has anyone e-mailed them? Wish they'd return and enlighten us.