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The Language of Vampyr

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posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 05:22 PM
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hey, isn't the kind of symbolic language you guys are talking about dead? as in, no longer secret, let alone relevant? anyone who wants to "read" that statue has everything they need to do it right here on the net. sticks and globes? fuggedabouit.




posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 07:11 PM
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a reply to: ATODASO

"no longer secret"?

Perhaps so...I suppose I was mistaken in assuming that "The Mysteries" which had been referred to were the sort of thing which one cannot actually access via the internet -
- hence the feeling of having been 'baited' into curiosity and then denied relevant info.



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 07:25 PM
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a reply to: lostgirl

www.sacred-texts.com...

www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com...

freemasonry.bcy.ca...

www.esoteric.msu.edu...

there ya go, babe. knock yerself out.


the purpose of that particular system was to consolidate the power of the great, and it was accomplished through precisely the same kind of mechanism that left you feeling cheated out of getting in on dem "real" mysteries. tell a man a secret, and he is yours for life. power is consolidated and kept through far more arcane means these days, though those means still involve the manipulation of symbols.

ask any economist.


edit on 15-11-2015 by ATODASO because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: ATODASO



the purpose of that particular system was to consolidate the power of the great,


What particular system? Do you mean the "Mysteries", or the mystery tradition, like what we know about the occult based on the translations made in medieval Italy and Spain that changed art and all that?

I like your analogy to economics, as I agree that what we are probably discussing is an economy of language.


hey, isn't the kind of symbolic language you guys are talking about dead?


You mean The Language of The Birds?


edit on 16-11-2015 by Bybyots because: I love the way that that ATS has made my fingers feel flowing as they produce BBC



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 03:04 AM
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originally posted by: ATODASO
tell a man a secret, and he is yours for life.


Golly! I didn't know it was so easy!

*note to self - add that to the list of where I've been going wrong*



You're kind of getting the jist of where I was going with this, or failing to go with this rather.

They have the framework, within the ritual of the three degrees but you have to know what it's missing to know what it's missing. Like knowing what you don't know before you know it. The Freemasons are peripheral to the Mysteries, though it can offer a route to them. That's up to the individual though.

I'm more interested in the idea of custodians of knowledge, the Freemasons are more carriers perhaps, selective carriers but still...



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 03:08 AM
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a reply to: Anaana




...you have to know what it's missing to know what it's missing. Like knowing what you don't know before you know it.


That's why I used a Rider-Waite deck to train Tarot.


edit on 16-11-2015 by Bybyots because: . : .



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 03:11 AM
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Plato - "He who not being inspired and having no touch of madness in his soul comes to the door and thinks he will get into the temple by the help of art - he, I say, and his poetry are not admitted."

That's what I'm talking about.



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 03:21 AM
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originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Anaana




...you have to know what it's missing to know what it's missing. Like knowing what you don't know before you know it.


That's why I used a Rider-Waite deck to train Tarot.



I'm too lazy, in that respect...generally...I like the I Ching, but have not progressed beyond coins. Eventually, one day, I'll progress to yarrow stalks.

But, yes, similarly. When I hit a wall. It tells me off if I ask trivial questions though, so I use it sparsely.

ETA: The 'it' is figurative, incidently. "It" naturally is as hard on me as I am.
edit on 16-11-2015 by Anaana because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 03:27 AM
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a reply to: Anaana

Ah, well, notice that I said "Used"; all that is under a deep heap of mulch, now, and produces occasional mushrooms.




posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 03:36 AM
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originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Anaana

Ah, well, notice that I said "Used"; all that is under a deep heap of mulch, now, and produces occasional mushrooms.





"A good work man never blames his tools"

Or becomes dependent upon them?



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 03:42 AM
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a reply to: Anaana

Yeah, the tools are just a lever for something that already is in us. Using the lever just focuses it. It doesn't matter the method. I favor Chirognomy, but i also like the I-Ching.

And also, as you know, as I have aged (matured?) it is all mulched down under a deep appreciation for Systems Science; I think you'll find that in my Chinese 5 Elements thread.


edit on 16-11-2015 by Bybyots because: . : .



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: ATODASO



the purpose of that particular system was to consolidate the power of the great,


What particular system? Do you mean the "Mysteries", or the mystery tradition, like what we know about the occult based on the translations made in medieval Italy and Spain that changed art and all that?


if you were tracking the convo over the last coupla pages, you'll see the that freemasonry was under discussion. the last thing you brought to the table was fulcanelli, who in all probability was pulling his vocabulary from the same sources as the fms. if your sources say different, then please go ahead and whip em on out.



You mean The Language of The Birds?


no, is that what you mean? i wouldn't presume to know, seeing as you're unable to articulate it for yourself. afaict, the "language of the birds" is a euphemism for a force that transcends language and imparts knowledge directly. through the air, you know?

/shrug


edit on 16-11-2015 by ATODASO because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 07:54 AM
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originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: ATODASO
tell a man a secret, and he is yours for life.


Golly! I didn't know it was so easy!

*note to self - add that to the list of where I've been going wrong*


i'm sure you do just fine.



You're kind of getting the jist of where I was going with this, or failing to go with this rather.

They have the framework, within the ritual of the three degrees but you have to know what it's missing to know what it's missing. Like knowing what you don't know before you know it. The Freemasons are peripheral to the Mysteries, though it can offer a route to them. That's up to the individual though.

I'm more interested in the idea of custodians of knowledge, the Freemasons are more carriers perhaps, selective carriers but still...


the fms used an adulterated version of the eleusinian mysteries to bind the 1% together through a shared secret, but the original progenitors of the mysteries used them to bind the 99%. meaning what you're looking for would require rudimentary education on the part of the initiate, conceptual simplicity, and a symbolic vocabulary with mass appeal.

maybe you already knew that, but just weren't inclined to share, lol.


edit on 16-11-2015 by ATODASO because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 08:15 AM
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originally posted by: Anaana
Plato - "He who not being inspired and having no touch of madness in his soul comes to the door and thinks he will get into the temple by the help of art - he, I say, and his poetry are not admitted."

That's what I'm talking about.


this is probably what plato was talking about.




posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: Bybyots

i just made a KILLER batch of banana bran muffins, and it kicked me into a headspace only really outstanding baked goods can get you to. so lemme see if i can offer you guys a synthesis that incorporates a lot of the ideas here which have proven resistant to coherent expression.

if we look at the kind of art i think beebs is referring to, we’ll find that demons are often represented as birds. here’s an example:



this jives with the arabic sources those guys mighta been drawing from, as djinn are also ascribed an airy nature, and are often represented as birds. let’s take biblical evil and hell out of the equation, and just look at how these entities are said to behave. they are servants. they confer knowledge. a more apt word for what i’m getting at is “daemon”.

the vallee version of the control system was developed according to his understanding of computer science. taking that analogy and running with it, daemons might be akin to a programming layer, a bot to whom queries can be submitted, if you’re able to bypass the encryption. our delightful host, kantzveldt, is of the opinion that fl are trying to do just that, achieve communication with daemons. the “language of vampyre” and the “language of the birds” might be one and the same.

perhaps the reason a purely visual vocabulary is used to impart the method for communicating with daemons is because doing so requires a non-linguistic approach. i can’t think of a better way to keep grubby ape paws out of the works than to use an encryption method that denies them the use of their primary cognitive engine, language. and certainly that seems to be the way fl is going about it.

if any of the resident demonologists/programmers on this thread wanna weigh in on this, that’d be badass.



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: ATODASO

Well there ya go: A great batch of muffins.

Why do you find it necessary to kick me in the jibs before agreeing with me? This is becoming a weird tradition between you and I.




posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: ATODASO
i'm sure you do just fine.







originally posted by: ATODASO

the fms used an adulterated version of the eleusinian mysteries to bind the 1% together through a shared secret, but the original progenitors of the mysteries used them to bind the 99%. meaning what you're looking for would require rudimentary education on the part of the initiate, conceptual simplicity, and a symbolic vocabulary with mass appeal.

maybe you already knew that, but just weren't inclined to share, lol.





Other than the proportions, Freemasonry is/was not quite as elite as that, but bearing in mind that 50% of the population, give or take, are automatically excluded...I generally agree but there is a slight perspective shift when taken in terms of the operative rather than the purely speculative that presents opportunity.

The Eleusian too selected, hence the quote, everyone was welcome up to a point. Hence why I wondered whether it was less of a question of leveling the field and more about improving access.


edit on 16-11-2015 by Anaana because: emoticon overload



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: ATODASO
this is probably what plato was talking about.



I was told a story yesterday about those taken as a suppository as a way of beating the nausea, it involved a cardboard tube and sounded very painful. Anywhooo...in part, possibly, the fasting suggests that some kind of alkaloid was taken as part of the festivities but there are better candidates, in my opinion, opium too is a contender, the plant was a key to the Minoan culture and economy, it gave light, food, freedom from pain and escapist dreams.

I agree but with reservations, it is a part but not all of what Plato is referring to that is indicative to me of a series of processes that make up a complete system. What was "The Mystery" essentially remains The Mystery. In systems theory, just to jump Bybyot's bandwagon there, what I am proposing, or attempting, is in lines with Geoffrey Vickers' work on developing Appreciative Systems in that the Eleusian can be appreciated as an Appreciative System.


Vickers coined the term "appreciative system" in his 1968 article "Science and the Appreciative System" to refer to "the activity of attaching meaning to communication or the code by which we do so".[18] In "Human Systems are Different" (1983) Vickers explained:

I find it surprising that we have no accepted word to describe the activity of attaching meaning to communication or the code by which we do so, a code which is constantly confirmed, developed or changed by use. I have for many years referred to this mental activity as ”appreciation‘; and to the code which it uses, as its ”appreciative system‘; and to the state of that code at any time as its ”appreciative setting‘. I call it a system because, although tolerant of ambiguity and even inconsistency, it is sensitive to them and tries to reconcile them.[19]

In a 1978 interview Vickers added:

I'm interested in Systems from the personal up to the very large, human, social systems, I'm also interested in systems of concepts and values through which we see all the others which I call appreciative systems.[20]

A response by Peter Checkland in his "Systems Thinking Systems Practice":

Vickers argues that our human experience develops within us 'readiness to notice particular aspects of our situation, to discriminate them in particular ways and to measure them against particular standards of comparison...' These readinesses are organized into an 'appreciative system' which creates for all of us, individually and socially, our appreciated world....The appreciative settings condition new experience but are modified by the new experience. Such circular relations Vickers takes to be the common facts of social life, but we fail to see this clearly, he argues, because of the concentration in our science-based culture on linear causal chains and on the notion of goal-seeking.

Vickers suggests replacing the goal-setting and goal-seeking with feedback models in which personal, institutional or cultural activity consists in maintaining desired relationships and eluding undesired ones. The process is a cyclical one which operates like this: Our previous experiences have created for us certain 'standards' or 'norms', usually 'tacit' (and also, at a more general level, 'values', more general concepts of what is humanly good and bad); the standards, norms and/or values lead to readiness to notice only certain features of our situations, they determine what 'facts' are relevant; the facts noticed are evaluated against the norms, a process which leads to our taking regulatory action and modifies the norms or standards, so that future experiences will be evaluated differently.[21]


en.wikipedia.org...

That's where I am as of this minute and obviously, that is subject to change.
edit on 16-11-2015 by Anaana because: stuff about Vickers etc



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: Bybyots
And also, as you know, as I have aged (matured?) it is all mulched down under a deep appreciation for Systems Science; I think you'll find that in my Chinese 5 Elements thread.



Gadzooks!

Yeah, I'm gonna have to read that through...I get a huge kick out of going back to things with new eyes and ears but the forehead can get awfully sore.




posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: Anaana

i'm pretty sure you're more of a wolf than a mouse, but either way, i trust you'll find a worthy companion.



but there is a slight perspective shift when taken in terms of the operative rather than the purely speculative that presents opportunity.


if this is true, the only way to find the answers you're looking for is through an intermediary. even if such a person was sworn to secrecy upon penalty of great pains after death, the answer would have already been leaked. or is lost in the dustheap of forgotten oral tradition. i don't accept that, and i doubt you do either, so intuition it is. it must be simple enough to be gotten at through just looking at it right?







 
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