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The Language of Vampyr

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posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 04:42 PM
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I am sure that you know that face to face, even when two people are from totally different cultures and neither speaks the other's language, that communication can be established. Words become irrelevent and we seek different cues. We examine each other's faces and body language until a framework of understanding can be acheived. That is a poetry in itself, and particularly for someone like me, who stumbles, bumbles and mumbles their way through verbal exchanges, refreshingly liberating to be brought into using my whole being.


That's precisely my point, generally we don't need verbal auditory communication to express oneself, yet there is an agreed upon set of rules we all apply which permits Queen Elizabeth's words to have such profound meaning.

Often times however, words have more than a single meaning when spoken and I don't mean one word being used interchangeably but more in line with double speak. The same argument can be made with art with a general meaning and one for the "enlightened".

So although we are fully capable of expressing ourselves to one another without words, we choose instead to use words defined by someone else. Who was this artist and was there any hidden our double speak incorporated? How does this impact the users?

Curious example found so often on ATS. Someone uses the incorrect grammar or pronunciation and you have those quick to call them out, like its taboo to use improper grammar. You know, there's this itch that persists in me that makes me want to pry back the layers of every taboo. I wonder why that is *tongue in cheek*

Another thing, my vocabulary is limited in scope compared to several of you in this thread. I was far worse as a student and probably didn't even grasp proper grammar (still learning) until I began posting on ATS back in 2004. So being able to see my own growth and the empowerment those words give me in expressing and articulating isn't lost on me. If one can become empowered by understanding language, if only not to let others take advantage of your ignorance shows a direct correlation to language and power/control.
edit on 1-11-2015 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: Rosinitiate
To be honest I think when 2 people fall in love is the best example of true communication. Verbal, non verbal, kinesics, telepathy?, something happens there, it even happens to people both blind and deaf. I think that it is a hard thing to explore, science cant be there when strangers fall in love to study it but I do think something behind it is relevant. And before I get smart ass questions no I didn't meet anyone new grrrr jk.



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: Rosinitiate
To be honest I think when 2 people fall in love is the best example of true communication. Verbal, non verbal, kinesics, telepathy?, something happens there, it even happens to people both blind and deaf. I think that it is a hard thing to explore, science cant be there when strangers fall in love to study it but I do think something behind it is relevant. And before I get smart ass questions no I didn't meet anyone new grrrr jk.



So oddly enough for how little I watch TV, the wife downloaded or recorded the movie "Innerstellar" if you haven't seen it, curiously (defunded) NASA scientists travel to another star system via a wormhole. However, after many issue with space travel the premiss comes down to "love" on a scientific level, in that the bond of two people are so strong it not defies, but encompasses all physical laws.

After having two children I can absolutely relate to there being a connection that defies space/time or at least redefines what space/time is.



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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And to the thread that wouldn't die: I'd flag you again for your sheer persistence.

As they say, "life finds a way".



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 06:11 PM
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This thread is about Forgotten Language and its premiss is Anti-Language and by and large we have a general shared agreement what that means. Why would it be so important to communicate anti-linguistically, simply to avoid detection from an outside source? Or....to not be controlled by an existing set of rules that enslve you by agreeing to the contract without ever knowing that is what happened. The very definition of the perfect control system. Why? Because we don't question it.



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 08:19 PM
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originally posted by: Rosinitiate
This thread is about Forgotten Language and its premiss is Anti-Language and by and large we have a general shared agreement what that means. Why would it be so important to communicate anti-linguistically, simply to avoid detection from an outside source? Or....to not be controlled by an existing set of rules that enslve you by agreeing to the contract without ever knowing that is what happened. The very definition of the perfect control system. Why? Because we don't question it.

Pure communication between people and everything else brings new truth and knowledge. If people cant lie anymore then no more need for other forms of social control. Privacy exists yet but individuality would probably be on more like art and not a big secret.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 04:14 AM
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originally posted by: Rosinitiate
That's precisely my point, generally we don't need verbal auditory communication to express oneself, yet there is an agreed upon set of rules we all apply which permits Queen Elizabeth's words to have such profound meaning.

Often times however, words have more than a single meaning when spoken and I don't mean one word being used interchangeably but more in line with double speak. The same argument can be made with art with a general meaning and one for the "enlightened".

So although we are fully capable of expressing ourselves to one another without words, we choose instead to use words defined by someone else. Who was this artist and was there any hidden our double speak incorporated? How does this impact the users?

Curious example found so often on ATS. Someone uses the incorrect grammar or pronunciation and you have those quick to call them out, like its taboo to use improper grammar. You know, there's this itch that persists in me that makes me want to pry back the layers of every taboo. I wonder why that is *tongue in cheek*


I love the English Language, and I am very good with it, but I don't know the rules. I cannot tell you the difference between a noun and a verb (without looking it up), I just like the words and the various rhythms of it's usage. I can listen, happily, without understanding a single word someone is saying in another language, loving those same kind of rhythms of intonation, breath and emphasis. And that is what language, natural language is all about, being said out loud. Written language is designed to communicate over distance and time, it was not meant to be spoken, but over time it has sought to capture what is spoken so that too can be communicated over distance and time. Early efforts at that were limited, and I am convinced represent a very poor reflection of the world they were attempting to describe, but you must be able to see that we're getting better at it, collectively we are nearing understanding and that we are witnessing the death pangs of centuries of allowing too few to initiate contact and (mis)represent us.

The correct grammar, punctuation, following the rules, only demonstrates that you can follow the rules. The other thing that I love about English is that it was created with a unifying, not homogenising purpose, and that doesn't make it a vampire, it doesn't eat other languages or suck them dry, it accommodates and amalgamates them. Greek, latin, Angle, Saxon, Jute, French, German and Dutch...to name but a few lend words to the construction of English. It has a lingua franca quality to it, intentionally, but that requires it to be used innovatively, both bending and breaking the rules, in order to strengthen that bridge.


originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Another thing, my vocabulary is limited in scope compared to several of you in this thread. I was far worse as a student and probably didn't even grasp proper grammar (still learning) until I began posting on ATS back in 2004. So being able to see my own growth and the empowerment those words give me in expressing and articulating isn't lost on me. If one can become empowered by understanding language, if only not to let others take advantage of your ignorance shows a direct correlation to language and power/control.


I think, you have answered Bybyot's question about how we level the field, through interaction. That's it right there.

I came to ATS in 2007, joining is one of the best decisions that I have ever made and it continues to be the place where I centre my learning because of the minds, in diversity, that meet here.

And the rules are simple enough even for me to grasp and (roughly) follow



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 04:54 AM
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originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Another thing, my vocabulary is limited in scope compared to several of you in this thread. I was far worse as a student and probably didn't even grasp proper grammar (still learning) until I began posting on ATS back in 2004. So being able to see my own growth and the empowerment those words give me in expressing and articulating isn't lost on me. If one can become empowered by understanding language, if only not to let others take advantage of your ignorance shows a direct correlation to language and power/control.


Thinking more on this, I'm going to cobble a thread together about the monument I've been talking about, kind of an attempt at us taking a walk around it and read it using my photos. I'll give it a go anyway. I'm not an art buff, I can only contribute to history/esoteric usage of symbolism, and then, I am not sure how completely (that being the nature of the beast)...nothing fancy, but might demonstrate that power to exclude others using imagery as language and we can use that to apply it to other stuff and the such like.

Would that help move things along, leveling wise, do you think? Bearing in mind, I don't do bells and whistles, it's not going to blow anyone's mind, I don't want anyone's expectations up that it is anything other than what it is, a monument, but it could be a tool for us to use. I could just post the pictures here, if you wanted to speed things along, I ain't fussy. Either way, I am counting on your contribution, so if that doesn't sound as though it'd help...ya know, think what would. I am happy to share but time is never on my side





posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: Anaana
I know you were not addressing me in your last post however I would very much like to see this monument. I think it would be a great experience.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 10:53 PM
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originally posted by: Rosinitiate
This thread is about Forgotten Language and its premiss is Anti-Language and by and large we have a general shared agreement what that means. Why would it be so important to communicate anti-linguistically, simply to avoid detection from an outside source? Or....to not be controlled by an existing set of rules that enslve you by agreeing to the contract without ever knowing that is what happened. The very definition of the perfect control system. Why? Because we don't question it.


Hey Rosinitiate: Interesting you just coalesced all the "off topic" stuff most of us have been accused of while we tried, heartily, to zero in on just what you've observed, here, and you got less stars for this post than any other anyone's made, when this seems to be the "on-topic" issue of the entire thread.

Hmmmmm.
tetra

ETA: Maybe my post isn't filled with enough "esoteric" seeming ideals and big language to be valued here, but there it is….what it appears the thread is really about. Why, indeed, would anyone need a language, a code, not detected by others, to be used in the presence of "others" (which then begs the question who are the "others" and who are the rest?) There is much, attendant, here, to be discussed, that has been dislodged, so to speak.

edit on 2-11-2015 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 06:52 AM
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originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: Anaana
I know you were not addressing me in your last post however I would very much like to see this monument. I think it would be a great experience.


That's excellent, as long as I know there'll be at least one other person to bounce off. Pointless otherwise. It's my day off tomorrow, so I shall have a think and see how we might go about it. I'll drop you a line when I have something together.

Funnily enough, when I was down in London, at the British Museum, you came to mind. You posted something about using a Kinect to scan objects a while back, I really liked that idea. It is such a nightmare, as a lay woman, photographing in a museum, the pros are allowed to take the stuff out of the glass cabinets, I get glare and reflections and maybe a glimpse of the objects somewhere in between. Or the bit that you want to detail is at the back and obscured by another object. I even have a Kinect lying dormant somewhere around here...only any good if you can get hands on though.


I need the keys to the cabinets





posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 07:19 AM
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originally posted by: tetra50

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
This thread is about Forgotten Language and its premiss is Anti-Language and by and large we have a general shared agreement what that means. Why would it be so important to communicate anti-linguistically, simply to avoid detection from an outside source? Or....to not be controlled by an existing set of rules that enslve you by agreeing to the contract without ever knowing that is what happened. The very definition of the perfect control system. Why? Because we don't question it.


Hey Rosinitiate: Interesting you just coalesced all the "off topic" stuff most of us have been accused of while we tried, heartily, to zero in on just what you've observed, here, and you got less stars for this post than any other anyone's made, when this seems to be the "on-topic" issue of the entire thread.

Hmmmmm.
tetra

ETA: Maybe my post isn't filled with enough "esoteric" seeming ideals and big language to be valued here, but there it is….what it appears the thread is really about. Why, indeed, would anyone need a language, a code, not detected by others, to be used in the presence of "others" (which then begs the question who are the "others" and who are the rest?) There is much, attendant, here, to be discussed, that has been dislodged, so to speak.


Well I suppose an argument could be made I'm simply confused and equally off topic.


It's genuinely hard to remember who said what. Did I make up its meaning as anti-language or did someone from FL say anti-language? Or was it someone from ATS? Or someone originally from ATS now FL? ......Or, someone from FL but on ATS?

Either way I distinctly remember if nothing else, FL isn't about forming a new language it is anti-language. To me that means to be against something, like a set of rules. Language is a set of rules they're against. Their site is inundated with esoterism, they chose to communicate without the use of "language" in the context we understand it and their sense of rebellion comes across loud and clear.

T1: Are the against the rules of language? Yes

T2: Are they against aliens traveling through walls? No

So if T1+T2=TT

The answer becomes obvious does it not?

edit on 3-11-2015 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 07:30 AM
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originally posted by: tetra50
ETA: Maybe my post isn't filled with enough "esoteric" seeming ideals and big language to be valued here, but there it is….what it appears the thread is really about. Why, indeed, would anyone need a language, a code, not detected by others, to be used in the presence of "others" (which then begs the question who are the "others" and who are the rest?) There is much, attendant, here, to be discussed, that has been dislodged, so to speak.


Now surely, you haven't thought that through...you're on a conspiracy site and you can't think of reasons why communication may take place in that way? Taken from both extremes, freedom fighters and oppressors, secret/private modes of communication litter history. You know about the slave road, and how song was used to communicate routes and safe houses? There are a myriad of reasons, including legitimate and justified ones, for being able to communicate in public privately. You seem only ever to be able to see the negative or the worst case scenario, but that is only a partial picture.

If you're in any minority, how do you find others like you to communicate and collaborate with?

I'm reading a couple of books at the moment, one about Victorian Sexuality and another about the Elizabethan underworld. When something is taboo, frowned upon, or outside of the normal bounds of social morals or conventions, it either allows itself to be consumed by those demands by punishment, or conforms, seeks fresh pastures in which to pursue those somethings that others disapprove of, or it adopts a mask of conventionality, conducting those activities and somethings in private. It depends on which side of the fence you sit on as to whether you think that privacy, at risk of punishment, exclusion or conformity, is a legitimate reason for having a mode of communication that both conceals and advertises fealty. That those same means can be employed nefariously goes without saying, they can both exclude and intrude upon others privacy and choices.

How hard is that to understand? It's not, is it? Had you thought it out I am sure that you would have reached that conclusion yourself. The why, generally, is obvious, specifically less so...and, what has consistently interested me about this discussion is just how different our experiences of FL have been. It's kind of freaky and surreal, and I do like a bit of that.

I don't intend to diminish your input or perspective, but I, and everyone else, Direne included, is entitled to their's too, and I don't see any great necessity that we should all agree on everything. That'd be terribly dull if nothing else.



edit on 3-11-2015 by Anaana because: messes

edit on 3-11-2015 by Anaana because: tenses all asunder with an over abundance of sssssssssssss



posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 09:04 AM
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This thread if broken down and analyzed can probably shed more light on language and communication than 3 lifetimes research FL's website.

Watching and categorizing the varies archetypes present within this thread and that influence on the discussion. Correlate that as the microcosm to deity worship.



posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: Anaana
You need a Kinect for a CPU with a USB plug not the BS one that is with the newer Xbox 360 Kinect (not be confused with Xbox one) a free program called Breckels and a decently powerful laptop. Then some time learning how to make it all work together... Enjoy



posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 06:18 PM
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edit on 3-11-2015 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2015 @ 03:37 AM
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originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: Anaana
You need a Kinect for a CPU with a USB plug not the BS one that is with the newer Xbox 360 Kinect (not be confused with Xbox one) a free program called Breckels and a decently powerful laptop. Then some time learning how to make it all work together... Enjoy




I've been checking out You Tube tutorials, I am reserving this as a holiday project for me and my son to learn together...it being his Kinect after all...he's totally impressed with the whole idea. Cheers!

Still working on thread, washing and ironing had higher priority, but should have something by the weekend, or end of.



posted on Nov, 6 2015 @ 09:03 PM
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FL is a social experiment. Testing all communication limits.

Thank you for your participation.

/case closed.
edit on 6-11-2015 by boozo because:




posted on Nov, 10 2015 @ 01:09 AM
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originally posted by: Bybyots
After long and careful study of the same two books for 24 years I am left with the impression that part of the key to getting F's message is to try as hard as one can to share his vision of how the "Low-Brow Art" of the medieval era reflects some truth the public (the vulgar) understood, and lampooned, but could not be expressed in plain language.

I'm not sure what it might have been. Might have just been a bunch of sour-grapes on the part of a load of Mithraists that liked to write. Might have been something important. Not sure.



originally posted by: Bybyots
Yeah but for me the key point in your post was "nutrition".

It's not a level playing field.

What levels the field?



You know, this has turned out to be a HUGE question for me. A quandary no less. Largely because I suspect that the field shouldn't be level, necessarily. It's access to the field itself that I think is really the issue. And, a finite mentality that imposes limits and restrictions of access, creates competition and self-righteousness. Or that defines the nature of what the field is and how it should be approached or navigated and in doing so negates everything that fails to conform to that model, or indeed contradicts it, as well as dictating acceptable outcomes through suggestion and the prescribed linguistic framework. One size does not fit all.

Playing hard after working hard toward that common end together, and the benefits thereof, socially, spiritually and nutritionally, form the basis of many a Mystery. Derivations, such as the Mithraists are attempts to tap into that power, perhaps...but formalisation defeats the object...doesn't it? Does it? I'm kind of leaning it that direction. At this point. Formalisation = standardisation...and that's just not natural.




posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 03:28 AM
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a reply to: Brotherman

I have decided that this is as good a place as any, and that it is on-topic (unless the OP disagrees in which case I shall respectfully concede it’s modular removal and place it elsewhere). We are though, in the context of forgotten languages, talking about information hidden in plain sight and what that might tell us about the intended audience, or something along those line. We are also alluding to control systems. This (kind of, or could do...the proof will be in the pudding) ticks all those boxes.

The monument in question is the Victoria Memorial which stands between Buckingham Palace and the Mall.



We kept passing Green Park station, on the tube, on our way back and forth between places, and the tannoy always announces that that is where you alight for Buckingham Palace. I’ve been driven past a few times, but I’m not big fan of royalist idolatry, they’re a necessary evil, that’s all. I have never been inclined to take a closer or more detailed look, it’s not old enough to really get me excited, but my son asked if we had time to have a look, and I saw no reason why not to. Apart from the armed Police, he found it wasn’t all that interesting after all, but then we spotted the memorial...not that you can miss it. It’s massive and gaudy, much like the palace, and as you’d expect, truly monumental. The light that day didn’t half bring out the gilding, but it was when I saw this chap, that my radar went “Aye Up”.



Looking to our left, I started to get increasingly thrilled.



I verily hopped, skipped and jumped my way around the other two sculptures confirming my suspicions.





The centre piece which these four statues enclose was no less insightful, although not as immediately apparent to me, the choice of imagery is very powerful and ties the whole monument together as a complete cosmology.







This is the exoteric description of the monument from wikipedia...

At the top of the central pylon stands a gilded bronze Winged Victory, standing on a globe and with a victor's palm in one hand. Beneath her are personifications of Constancy, holding a compass with its needle pointing true north, and Courage, holding a club. Beneath these, on the eastern and western sides, are two eagles with wings outspread, representing Empire. Below these, enthroned statues of Queen Victoria (facing The Mall) and of Motherhood (facing Buckingham Palace), with Justice (facing north-westwards towards Green Park) and Truth (facing south-eastwards).[39] These were created from single solid pieces of marble, with Truth being sculpted from a block weighing 40 tonnes.[25] Brock described the symbolism of the Memorial saying that it was devoted to the "qualities which made our Queen so great and so much beloved."[40] He added that the statue of the Queen was placed to face towards the city, while flanked by Truth and Justice as he felt that "she was just and that she sought the truth always and in circumstances",[40] while the Motherhood was to represent her "great love for her people".[40]

At the four corners of the monument are massive bronze figures with lions, representing Peace (a female figure holding an olive branch), Progress (a nude youth holding a flaming torch), Agriculture (a woman in peasant dress with a sickle and a sheaf of corn) and Manufacture (a blacksmith in modern costume with a hammer and a scroll).[41] The self-bases of the last two groups are inscribed THE GIFT OF NEW ZEALAND.[5]

The whole sculptural programme has a nautical theme, much like the rest of The Mall (Admiralty Arch, for example). This can be seen in the mermaids, mermen and the hippogriff, all of which are suggestive of the United Kingdom's naval power.
The memorial is placed in the middle of an architectural setting of formal gardens and gates designed by architect Sir Aston Webb.

At nearly 25 metres (82 ft) tall, the Victoria Memorial remains the tallest monument to a King or Queen in England.[42]


en.wikipedia.org...

It does illustrate and represent all that. It is a highly potent symbol of Britain’s naval power and domination of the seas. It says that expressly, but it uses symbology that reiterates that and gives that power and domination divinity. It is the state as not just religion, but under divine rule and ordination. Chosen, if you will and the symbolism that it uses has been used in that way for millennia which suggests that someone, somewhere along the design process knew what else was being said.

What I suspect is that there is a potential here to illustrate how you can differentiate between The Control System from A control system and how language correlates to that.

That’s my idea anyway...thoughts?







 
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