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The Language of Vampyr

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posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: Bybyots

And the experiment shows that in order for you to obtain such a language, the system must, of necessity, include the speaker.


Hence why little purpose is served in probing dead languages. Take this post from Andryl...


Your question on how are they connected with language can now be answered: as we have records of, say, Old Welsh, Middle Welsh, and Modern Welsh, then we have a traceable history of how Welsh changed. This is our Welsh manifold M. The rules defining each state is given, roughly, by linguists (phonology rules, consonantal conservation, pallatization, etc.). Therefore, you can code the system to apply those rules to Modern Welsh and see what comes out. Of course, human brain is not a logical system: it is a highly complex and strange system. Nobody knows why a given change started operating in a given language, or why speakers gradually start modifying the language. Also, cultural and cognitive factors must be called for. This means we are facing a system that cannot be specified in an algorithmic way, neither using a rule-based approach. You need to use statistical mechanical maths.


lingvoforum.net...

Statistics won't do it either, because of that lack of a logical system at the core of spoken language. Written though...but without the other, you're out sourcing the administration of humanity to an algorithm. Which, ya know?

It's why it all seems to me more of a creative exercise, or some form of game play, not that that means either are not serious endeavours in those contexts, or that those methodologies aren't being used to develop controlling or invasive technologies. There is a lot up in the air from my perspective, and I am no-one to judge the oddness of others, and currently see no reason not to given them the benefit of the doubt...with the same reservations that I apply to everyone I give it to.

I've so far been more interesting in reading what they claim to be informed by. Some good papers in amongst the everything that isn't in English-stuff. The in-depth subject matter is kind of narrow, or focused would be another way of phrasing that...but not much to inform on context from across other disciplines. Pretty specific.

At this point, all I got is a shrug.


edit on 30-7-2015 by Anaana because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 05:02 PM
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originally posted by: ATODASO

originally posted by: Anaana

Alongside that, annealing of narratives? Developing a robust, adaptable, meta- or grand-narrative would be very useful. I should imagine.


and that's why they need public input.



Yep, that would most definately be a requirement. I was reading that the US state departments offering, in terms of "narrative disruption" was a social media campaign, "Think again, turn away." Hmmm? I think we can exclude them from having enjoyed the benefits of DARPA multi-million dollar research findings.

facebook, ran an experiment with it's face recognition technology to see whether it could recognise people even when their face was removed or obscured. It examined 40,000 photos and had a 83% success rate. Pretty powerful that. There is currently no code of conduct on the use of such technologies. Californian based Face First are marketing a system that uses face recognition software to identify customers as "good" or "bad" when they enter your store allowing for better targeting of those of "high-value" to your business. Our consent is not required (except in Texas and Illinois, I believe). Another company is claiming that it's product will allow you to point a camera at a stranger and access their name and dating profile.

The Smithsonian decided in 2010 to store all Tweet-er-ings, then a back catalogue of 21 billion, but now growing by half a billion a day. That is what is going to represent us to future generations? (assuming there are future generations that is, if not, to those who excavate us). While states are not behind all the hoarding of data, Tweets or biometric, it is all there for them should they need it...so, we have those who hoard it pushing to squeeze every last drop of profit out of this world before it implodes and therefore collecting every bit of info they can on the off-chance that there may be a buck to be earnt from it at some point in the future...(deep breath) and thereby facilitating a future of oppression by necessity.

Joy!



posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 06:50 PM
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originally posted by: Anaana
While states are not behind all the hoarding of data, Tweets or biometric, it is all there for them should they need it...so, we have those who hoard it pushing to squeeze every last drop of profit out of this world before it implodes and therefore collecting every bit of info they can on the off-chance that there may be a buck to be earnt from it at some point in the future...(deep breath) and thereby facilitating a future of oppression by necessity.





posted on Jul, 30 2015 @ 07:15 PM
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originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: ATODASO

All of humanity should have a vested interest in the narrative, or cultural story. Not only because we are all the author, but also its impact in the creation and propagation of bias.un

It happens regardless of whether or not we actively think about it, but perhaps it is time to begin consciously writing the story of our world.


That's a very cogent thing to say.

However top neuroscientists (Gazzaniga, Nobel Laureate Kahneman for example)
say that something like 95% to 98% of all thought is unconscious.

That's why smart people study mythology, as it's a doorway into the
unconscious mind.

This is the very reason I fear for this once beautiful planet..
that it's going to go completely to the crapper.. all because
we don't tell good stories CONSCIOUSLY as you say.

Kev



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 12:38 AM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: ATODASO

All of humanity should have a vested interest in the narrative, or cultural story. Not only because we are all the author, but also its impact in the creation and propagation of bias.un

It happens regardless of whether or not we actively think about it, but perhaps it is time to begin consciously writing the story of our world.


That's a very cogent thing to say.

However top neuroscientists (Gazzaniga, Nobel Laureate Kahneman for example)
say that something like 95% to 98% of all thought is unconscious.

That's why smart people study mythology, as it's a doorway into the
unconscious mind.

This is the very reason I fear for this once beautiful planet..
that it's going to go completely to the crapper.. all because
we don't tell good stories CONSCIOUSLY as you say.

Kev


I always thought mythology was a means of explaining away the unexplainable world around people. I wonder since neuroscience has statistical numbers and percentages into the unconscious mind what kind of numbers they got for the bare minimum ratio of cognition versus incognition? I mean I don't think 100% unconscious is really a thing because the mind still reacts to stimuli of a body I wonder what that natural balance is, if its known.

Its been awhile guys, hello
edit on 31-7-2015 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 01:21 AM
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originally posted by: Brotherman
I always thought mythology was a means of explaining away the unexplainable world around people.


That would depend very much upon the myths. They can't all be heaped into one pile or category. Creation myths largely serve the purpose of explaining the unexplainable by defining what is known and what provides a cohesive social framework, others provide more specific, occupational, frameworks and convey highly practical knowledge, as well as a moral/spiritual framework in which to operate that craft. Others, as KPB states, involve a more unconscious (or less conscious) approach and invoke the shamanic journey.



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 01:40 AM
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originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: ATODASO

All of humanity should have a vested interest in the narrative, or cultural story. Not only because we are all the author, but also its impact in the creation and propagation of bias.

It happens regardless of whether or not we actively think about it, but perhaps it is time to begin consciously writing the story of our world.


Ahhh. That is the essence of everything, right there. For whomever "wins" to write the history, spells the future. This is what it's all about. We all have a story…
We all have pain and pleasure and our experiences. The "history" is totally up for grabs, in a way. Whomever wins the battle gets to spell it, say it, the way they wish for it to seem. Perception is everything. Reality is nothing more than perception. Somewhere between here and there, is "reality" and "truth."

Perhaps…..



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 02:20 AM
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a reply to: Brotherman
Hey Brothernan! Good to see you!!

So, now that it's been awhile, how do you see FL these days? Has your viewpoint or breadth of knowledge changed much? Bro Hug!



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 02:39 AM
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a reply to: Anaana



At this point, all I got is a shrug.


All I can think to add right now is that you may as well go ahead and extend that shrug to the whole idea of artificial intelligence because thems the clunky-ass tools they are trying to teach it with.

Crazy, right? Try Googling "simulated annealing natural language processing".

*shrug*




posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 04:50 AM
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originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Anaana



At this point, all I got is a shrug.


All I can think to add right now is that you may as well go ahead and extend that shrug to the whole idea of artificial intelligence because thems the clunky-ass tools they are trying to teach it with.

Crazy, right? Try Googling "simulated annealing natural language processing".

*shrug*



Oy, oy, oy! That just spews out crazy gibberish talk.

It did occur to me last night, I can't remember the specific instances, but there is some preoccupation with silence amongst the FL corpus which brings to mind the type of Neural Networks being developed that are able to learn from our interactions on line, but at present it is not known how that learning occurs, it may be a good guess to place that activity in the nodes which activates synaptic like emergent properties? Annealing may work there, I suppose it could be applied at least, in a Schrodinger's Cat,Tranformational model kind of way.

I think we can punctuate that entire paragraph with shrugs though and maybe the odd raised eyebrow too.






posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 05:21 AM
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a reply to: Serdgiam
Yes, thank you. She's a loon with a mental disorder who thinks she's being gang stalked and she is struggling with an autistic kid, yet she has the time to criticize my vocabulary relating to the science of the mind. 
Like I said, I read the thread...
Yes, I find it simply amazing that you can use what is essentially magnets and electrodes to create the perception of speech via direct brain input. 
Yes, there are very dark aspects to the weaponization of such devices. Mk ultra, military mind control, "enhanced" interrogation techniques. I remember that supposed Al-Qaeda terrorist saying that while he was sleeping, Muhammad came to him and told him to cooperate with the US military.  I instantly thought, mind control. 
But, if we humans are ever going to evolve to get off this rock, we will have to use all of the technology at our disposal. 



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 06:25 AM
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originally posted by: SheepDipped
a reply to: Serdgiam

I remember that supposed Al-Qaeda terrorist saying that while he was sleeping, Muhammad came to him and told him to cooperate with the US military.  I instantly thought, mind control. 
But, if we humans are ever going to evolve to get off this rock, we will have to use all of the technology at our disposal. 


I think that could use a source.
First time I'm hearing it.



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 08:28 AM
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originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: Brotherman
I always thought mythology was a means of explaining away the unexplainable world around people.


That would depend very much upon the myths. They can't all be heaped into one pile or category. Creation myths largely serve the purpose of explaining the unexplainable by defining what is known and what provides a cohesive social framework, others provide more specific, occupational, frameworks and convey highly practical knowledge, as well as a moral/spiritual framework in which to operate that craft. Others, as KPB states, involve a more unconscious (or less conscious) approach and invoke the shamanic journey.


Well said!

Human minds have evolved (co-involved) with memes,
and these memes have had either survival value or not.
So those minds which carry memes with survival value
over the millenia have more offspring than those who
do not so in a manner of speaking, memes are molding
the human mind to be good habitats.

This is what folks at FL may be interested in, among
other things.

Also folks who work (or at least think they are working
with 'Djinn') might be involved, as (and here is a clue)
'Djinn 'know all languages'.

There is a reason that creepy people in cutting edge
research are fascinated by 'shaman' (including in
this case 'Sahir' or Islamic sorcerers) I'd wager.

But just an opinion.

Kev



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: Brotherman

Welcome! I haven't seen you in a while.

One of the 'great secrets' if you wish to put it that way,
is that we all are greatly influenced (to say the least)
by unconscious thought. In fact we are nearly helpless
in a tidlewave of it which moves human history where
it will.

The 'dudes in black hats' know this of course, as have
many so-called 'black magicians' and the like over
the centuries.

If you can control the 'unconscious pool' to some
degree, you can control the world.

Sound familiar?

A great race is on, IMHO by a collection of economic
groups (that was a nice input from ATO), governments,
power-mad individuals, and especially intelligence
agencies.

The intelligence agencies, especially ones in the middle
east take "Djinn" very seriously -- you might read up on
it, it saturates the Muslim world; just like the US
took (or takes) 'Shaman' (westernized mostly)
very seriously.

Of course Shaman are flaky, liminal, partly delusional
characters (I should know). But that doesn't mean they
aren't still involved. Any decent Shaman has SOME
conscious access to this layer we are discussing.

I have to run. Work is calling.

Kev



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

However top neuroscientists (Gazzaniga, Nobel Laureate Kahneman for example)
say that something like 95% to 98% of all thought is unconscious.

That's why smart people study mythology, as it's a doorway into the
unconscious mind.


It most certainly is one of the doors! Importantly though, the cultural story I refer to can only be known through submersion from birth.


This is the very reason I fear for this once beautiful planet..
that it's going to go completely to the crapper.. all because
we don't tell good stories CONSCIOUSLY as you say.

Kev


Some of the timelines.. everything works out wonderfully.


Not only must we write good stories, and write them well, but the very structure of the novel must be changed if we desire a different ending.

Tet and Dir touched on this with the predator and prey part of our story. Greed is another big player, and my focus right now. And like most things in our cultural story, it is to be accepted or rejected. Most do a bit of both, with assistance from our bias blind spot.

Perhaps the fruitful approach is to redefine the values that satiate this "hunger." If done properly, it can result in a higher quality of life for everyone involved.



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: tetra50

The cultural story is rarely, if ever, consciously written by anyone. It is what is lacking in the history books. It is the background hum, permeating our whole life. We dance according to its tune.

The Victor and the Loser.. are defined by the cultural story. Its not about changing such things, rather, its about understanding the value in each and how they usher in change.



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: Serdgiam

Would you care to speculate or
comment about the historical
role of high functioning autism
and other variant neuroligies
which prevent that person
from accessing the cultural
narrative like others?

Please tie in shamanism to
your reply if that makes
sense to do and interests
you!

Kev



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Brotherman
Hey Brothernan! Good to see you!!

So, now that it's been awhile, how do you see FL these days? Has your viewpoint or breadth of knowledge changed much? Bro Hug!




IDK bro, I've got my own ideas, thoughts, feelings, perspective are eternally changing. I've been on sabbatical from everything life ats, everything. I'm not sure any insight of my own applies here anymore, I've came to understand something I cannot explain, not necessarily because of fl or what ever but like I said I've been away for awhile. Lots of interesting things being posted here. There has been alot of things to read in that regard I've had lots to read. I missed u bro.



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 11:03 PM
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a reply to: Serdgiam

Hey Serdgiam:




The cultural story is rarely, if ever, consciously written by anyone. It is what is lacking in the history books. It is the background hum, permeating our whole life. We dance according to its tune.



Isn't this, respectfully, what "waking up" describes? We "wake up" to the cultural overall story of life, and our place within that, and begin a conscious exploration and "writing" of it, don't we? No, it isn't in history books. When you wake up, perhaps, you then realize, that history is just, in fact, another story…..

As far as that background hum and its permeations….
Have you ever had a memory, a deja vu moment, for lack of a better word, and in that instant, "remembered" that same moment happening fifty or so different ways, all at the same time? That is what the "background hum" you speak of means to me. Being conscious, as you describe, then becomes a challenge of living in this moment and all those other moments, and still having sanity and faith…..that there is some point to all that. In one life I experienced I was a physicist….in another I was homeless, etc.

To me, this is the background hum. This is the real story. It doesn't ever get told, mainly because the paradigm we live within defines this thinking as insanity, so we don't often discuss it, even if we're experiencing it. And sometimes when we do discuss it, understand it, it's the moment we are taken, move on, die and live again……

Enjoy your thoughts on this thread topic, Serdigam.
tetra



posted on Jul, 31 2015 @ 11:22 PM
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a reply to: Brotherman

Hello Brotherman:



I've came to understand something I cannot explain, not necessarily because of fl or what ever but like I said I've been away for awhile.


I welcome and am eager for you to share with us, if you would, that which you've come to understand…..
Missed you, too.
tetra




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