The Language of Vampyr

a reply to: ATODASO

Following a link at the bottom of your link, I'd opine that the politics are consistent with the personality waxing techno-philosophical here. I should probably say now, that you do not come across as totally soulless, Direne. And I somewhat apologize for dissecting you. However, this is an FL thread and, as far as most of us are concerned, you are at least the voice and ATS incarnation of FL.

Hey, did anybody else catch the interesting post by ATS moderator/member Kandinsky in this thread:

Question: To what extent are disinformation agents active on ATS?

…However, you might find this intriguing and I can only say so much about it. A certain, credible member made a series of popular posts and threads and did it all without leaving a trace. Maybe they were a 'paid disinfo agent' or an independent mischief-maker? We'll probably never know because they executed it all without so much as a fingerprint left behind.

That's all I can say about it.

I can think of another one: Researchers with a back door. I'm guessing Kandinsky was referring to the breakaway-dream-stealing-civilization mythos/meme testing thread. Just a guess.

a reply to: ATODASO

I'm "fascist" if I don't wish to follow the criteria and language limitations of a classification system which isn't actually meant to do or define things for the intended purpose? Fascist if I feel that "Species" in regards to communication isn't as cut and dry or determined by the capacity to reproduce together? Nice of you. With Billions of species on the planet, on a planet that likely is among Billions with life and utterly different Biology and Chemistry than anything on this planet entirely, it makes me a Fascist to say we could likely include all mammals as a "species" in regards to communication?

Bravisimo. I'll start lining up the army immediately! I stand corrected by name calling! Man who sits on an order of creatures that by itself represents maybe 1% of the planets biomass on a planet that likely represents .000001% of the Galaxies biomass, which in itself that Galaxy represents a fraction do a degree I would have to waste a few hrs trying to give a remotely plausible and page consuming number to of the biomass in the Universe. In a universe that exists within a Multiverse... I am Fascist for saying that we might not be particularly distinct and so very "original" in regards to communication than a mammal from the same place and environment on a speck of dust that also happens to sleep at the foot of the bed every night and has been a welcome free loader to our species for 10's of thousands of years maybe... Cool

I am of the opinion that you are way too assured of our importance in the scheme of things, I think, to be so assured that we as a certainty would be more important than collecting samples in the manner we sometimes gather seeds or fish or rodents to classify later or specimens to be sorted. I'd wager that in some cases the only way it would matter is if after several times doing so they noticed one portion of the sample was consuming the other. But arguing is futile, get back to me in 5 and then in 10 years then again in 20 after increments of improvement in AI and we can chat about "how vast" an intelligence might be in comparison to us and if we could be of utter insignificance or not.

For the record. While my mind remains open to all possibility, I don't believe that woman was "reading pictures" from the cat. I think she or anybody would have to have a "way" with animals to pull it off, But I could do it. Not going to go into my background other than to say i've hustled some illusions. I could do it she's using misdirection to cover real world skills.

And please, from the get go, People here contacted Direne, the thread is what she is "allowed" to say given the parameters of her group. There are a lot of threads dedicated to beating people up and squashing people based on "you being right" regardless in any event the thread is what she is allowed to give on their parameters. You can think her group is run by the Girl Scouts or She is from outer space or a fallen angel... that doesn't matter. The thread basic is her/their thoughts on these matters and how she/they chooses to communicate and wants you to look at it. Frankly your lauding over a video of a woman that you never met and didn't produce nor were you there and you have a dead pan call me a fascist thought process going on over it when honestly she's (video lady) got a bit of side show going on.. I don't see anything there I couldn't do with much more than a call to the company that originally delivered the animal and a "Guys" obvious inability to do it himself. I acquire information all day long, as a professional aspect of my life. I could convince him of anything because he has to ascribe to the mystical in order to rectify his discomfort with his own failure, with certainty I could turn him into silly putty on that issue. Direne's peeps are actually demonstrating some very complex skills, I'll take the benefit of the doubt on her thoughts. "I THINK" you are practicing anthropomorphism here on the animal and in fact the way the woman chooses to convince her audience of her abilities preys upon exactly that tendency, not saying she isn't getting it done, just there is a side show aspect to her gimmick.

There is nothing in it, that actually invalidates the assumption that we can't do more than communicate basic things with other species.

There has been nothing I have seen that says as a definitive a "Panther"is by absolute definition far along the range of what Direne refers to as "another species" I DO see a lot of work with bugs which says to me when those statements are made we are talking about creatures that are "Truly another species" alien in nature to our emotions and communication, removed by a genuine evolutionary step, Mammals might well be a Grey area and I don't want to be told i'm a fascist for attempting to see it from the POV of "The Model" in question and make sense of it.

originally posted by: criticalhit
a reply to: ATODASO

I'm "fascist" if I don't wish to follow the criteria and language limitations of a classification system which isn't actually meant to do or define things for the intended purpose? Fascist if I feel that "Species" in regards to communication isn't as cut and dry or determined by the capacity to reproduce together? Nice of you.

yes, that is literally the only definition of species: that which can reliably reproduce with its own kind. your odd refusal to adhere to that definition seems tied to equally odd ideological constructs. make up your own language, there seems to be a market for that kind of thing, but don't expect it to get anywhere if it doesn't accurately describe the world and its contents. /shrug

I am of the opinion that you are way too assured of our importance in the scheme of things, I think, to be so assured that we as a certainty would be more important than collecting samples in the manner we sometimes gather seeds or fish or rodents to classify later or specimens to be sorted.

outrage has fritzed your reading comprehension. i have at no point written anything even remotely resembling that.

"I THINK" you are practicing anthropomorphism here on the animal and in fact the way the woman chooses to convince her audience of her abilities preys upon exactly that tendency, not saying she isn't getting it done, just there is a side show aspect to her gimmick.

the cognitive dissonance here is giving me an ulcer. according to you all mammals are essentially the same as one another, including us, and I'M somehow anthropomorphizing?



how do the vast differences between phylla nullify the smaller differences between classes? one critter is very different, one is less so. that some are more different doesn't dissolve the boundary between those that are less different.

you're feeling angry and i get that. i'd like to point out that i didn't call you a fascist, that i acknowledged the weaknesses in that vid in the post in which it was embedded, and that a second, more careful reading of the last few pages might settle you down a little.

a reply to: ATODASO

yes, that is literally the only definition of species: that which can reliably reproduce with its own kind. your odd refusal to adhere to that definition seems tied to equally odd ideological constructs. make up your own language, there seems to be a market for that kind of thing, but don't expect it to get anywhere if it doesn't accurately describe the world and its contents. /shrug

But it isn't. It is the standard used for a a filing and learning system adopted by man in the 20th century and it was not designed to study "communication between species" I'm just willing to operate from "her model" which is not in that particular box and be plastic of mind and eliminate my own language because it can be a limitation to understanding things, seeing them from other angles. In this very particular case the word "species" is perhaps a limitation in regards to what she is describing. Remember this Begins with "an attempt to understand alien species" It isn't all about Leopards, we are in the end, I would say with sureness, going to need to find ways to communicate with "things" that do follow her parameters... or in short absolutely virtually no common grounds of emotion with us or expression. I know a Leopard fairly well, I probably wont know something that for example has a silicon outer shell uses neon as a form of internal gas and lives in temperatures 1000 degrees higher than me. In these sorts of scenarios I think the term "species" is exceptionally narrow. I have everything in the world in common with the Leopard in that scenario, it is from my "grouping" in a very select place and time.

outrage has fritzed your reading comprehension. i have at no point written anything even remotely resembling that.

I'm not outraged, it's just that ats is a debate forum usually, about arguing points, I read the "critiques" and "potentials" you guys raised in regards to her methods, I feel this isn't a typical debate threads, I know well and good the methodologies people use to manipulate, i'm interested in hearing "her take" I am a big boy, my mind is very plastic I derive pleasure from adopting "other world views" and assimilating what works into my own and discarding what doesn't or recognizing when i'm being manipulated. I understand your thoughts, I just don't share the concern in this instance. In fact... I have no issue with "data gathering" of my thought process... I like it. It's returning information, it's polite. I hope they are using it to a purpose that matters.

the cognitive dissonance here is giving me an ulcer. according to you all mammals are essentially the same as one another, including us, and I'M somehow anthropomorphizing?

No, use my Pleco example... I am saying all my fish are fish no matter how much smarter one is from the other, it's intelligence is insignificant next to mine, but certainly ALL FISH would have better capacity to understand each other than I would a Fish, they "smell" each others hormones which I can never do, their vision is adapted for water as is their hearing, mine is not. As examples. When I think inter-species communication in regards to her opinion or the groups opinion that it is very limited between species, I can say she is likely correct in regards to Fish to Mammal or Mammal to Bird much more so from Mammal to Octopus or Octopus to Spider. Remember, this is About contacting Aliens. For the purposes of the argument and maybe i'm not being clear and explaining my thoughts properly, it might not be correct to harp on the topic of "Species" and what it means to us.

you're feeling angry and i get that. i'd like to point out that i didn't call you a fascist, that i acknowledged the weaknesses in that vid in the post in which it was embedded, and that a second, more careful reading of the last few pages might settle you down a little.

yeah, I know.

I just like the ball she's running with here. It's Fun, It's genuine stimulation for the mind, it's relaxing. I don't find the method threatening at all, don't care who actually dissects my thoughts. It is... superior to the confrontational approach most threads on ats use. It stretches the brain to think instead of locking it in. One very real aspect of their site is "language and understanding" from a very basic place I don't like the way language sometimes constrains the mind, it is an area where we limit our senses, blind man grabbing an elephant sort of thing, I enjoy looking at things while eliminating words or replacing things on my neural net, it is Vision that way. You can only "think" by a picture or representation that means something to you replace that meaning and you can jump from the tail to the trunk. If reality is an outcome of the observer that is a very powerful way to do things. Like I said, it's fun.

a reply to: The GUT

GUT, really, don't you think your deep readings about those secret and obscure agencies have had a devastating effect on your ability to discern reality around you? So, after accusing me of being a vampyr, an alien, a NSA agent, or an AI algorithm, what's next? A terrorist? Don't you think you are looking for weapons of massive destruction there where there is just a dusty desert?

You need to stop for a while and think about whether you are approaching the entire thing from a very narrow perspective: the American one. It is as valid as, say, the Eskimo one, or the Tanzanian one, or the Tongan one. I mean: your NSA and CIA, and your three football-field sized UFOs only holds in your society, which happens to be the American one (more exactly, the post 9/11 American one, fading away as a superpower since the 80s). It does not apply at all to, say, the Moldavian one. Your NSA/CIA is just a domestic issue which affects, deeply, Americans, one of the many peoples on this planet which look as alien to the rest as the rest looks alien to you. I call that UFOlogical Provincialism.

That you live on a permanent state of anxiety seeing NSA agents everywhere is a symptom of how deep the disease has extended in your society. It tells the story of those policemen under permanent terror who see armed black people everywhere, and who shoot readily projecting their fear onto them, a fear turned into bullets.

If everything you do not understand you call it disinformation, how would you ever learn? If day in day out you label truth as "mere opinion, just a view", what does that mean? Soon you will be living in a society where the individual won't dare to dissent, lest he be accused of being "a disinformation agent". What would be next? Ku-Klux-Klan? A witch hunting? Who's the guru here? You?

a reply to: Direne

What a bunch of hooey. I'll address that fact when Im off this tablet. You sound a little shaken there, Direne. I can't blame you. Your facade is showing signs of stress. How un-guru.

a reply to: The GUT

I thought AI machines were immune to stress... In the meanwhile, you should think about opening a new thread. I suggest you to call it the weaponization of the other

a reply to: Direne

My personal opinion revolves around "what's the difference" say you were NSA (don't think you are) why should that bother me, my data is available to a large degree and it's troublesome to go through lengths to avoid it. Those guys "run scenarios" for a living, role play of any kind is a key to finding innovative solutions to problems in any scenarios. If you were let's say trying to discern how people would react to contact or even if you could convince them of a fake one and how they would react... That would still be a cool thing to participate in. The whole thing is "interesting" from any angle. The topics are stimulating. You guys have put thought into "it" irregardless of the "It"

Ever see "after the dark" a HS teacher asks his students to role play who is worthy to survive after a nuclear war and only 10 of 20 of them can. Good mental exercise, same sort of debate in the movie "who are you to control the parameters" but it's a way better method of teaching or learning then the chaos of the students having equal say in the curriculum so to speak like most threads. The teacher learns things too. The suspension of disbelief can be a great tool in creating urgency and realism to the scenarios being worked on I think. Makes for more honesty too. Think tanking and collecting data vs conflict of ideas and soap boxes.

a reply to: Direne

You're gonna be easier than I thought.

a reply to: The GUT

Easier to what? troll?

Ats went to their website not vice vera, the thread asks what is this?. Some of their videos have 50 views on you tube, unless the OP arranged this and for whatever really unlikely reason they made complicated videos, wrote tons of stuff and then "only" did this in regards to ats, these are just people together working on ideas that the OP discovered randomly, people here thought what they were doing was cool and asked...

Realistically I don't see them asking to be "found", which would be the main criteria if there was an agenda... frankly I'm not sure how you only get "50 views" on you tube, how does one make that happen? Your not trying to be seen that's how.

So if your going to probe for an agenda there are 2 options only. The OP is part of it and they did all that work for a thread talking to maybe 20 atsers the whole time... pretty elaborate stuff for an incredibly limited audience.

Or, we asked them questions and they are giving us their take on it their way... In which case, let her answer it's her think tank we asked... it's not a requirement to "like" "believe" or "follow" what is being said but when "we" ask, respect the answer rather than make accusations.

I lean to the latter sir, which means your kind of being a bit of a jerk for no reason.

I work with what I know, I Know this thread was posted by person X, I know almost no one outside Direnes website has seen those videos, so either we are the first place shown this and the OP is part of it or just happened to be the first to find what your implying is some giant "plot", or... we stumbled upon them and they weren't and aren't asking for attention... I could drop a vid onto a single facebook page and send more people than have viewed the videos at rapid speed there is far too much "stuff" here for them not to understand basic "search"

I just glanced at "Negativity" it has 53 views and was made in 2014 around 18 months ago... in fact, there are a lot of videos, the biggest I saw had 1000 views and that's "After", well after being shown and linked to here. Many seem to be 40-50 views, 9 pages of vids on one search alone. Completely not ad supported btw that's a whole lot of work for one person eh? don't you think? And not being "shown" anywhere but here... and no financial motivations evident.

So "what are you seeing through" in your head? She could ask me right now and if I wanted I could show this to 70,000 or so followers tomorrow if they had a goal (me and thousands of other people who play computer all day)

Hear her thoughts her way, we obviously asked, they obviously weren't attention seeking.

a reply to: The GUT

Stay on topic. This is a thread about vampyrs and secret societies. You can discuss about that Nosy Security Agency, but your testosterone levels are of no interest here.

a reply to: Direne

Is that what you would say this thread is about?

Vampires?

Doesn't feel that end of it has been deeply touched.

a reply to: criticalhit

No, I wouldn't say it. But we need to start from scratch in order for GUT to catch it on. Otherwise he will soon get lost again entangled in that mess of local nosy agencies that conspire and confabulate nobody knows why or against whom. In the end, I am sure his analytical capability will find a connection between vampires and the men in black. Who knows?

a reply to: Direne

Actually... I have a story line i'm working on in which the Vampires are up against various govt agencies in an attempt to escape earth before the aliens arrive en mass and those agencies are in the end controlled by the Aliens. In the context the Vampires aren't Vampires in the classic sense but rather the remaining results of the genetic experiments of a previous visitation by a different group of aliens who had given some humans the Dna of yet another group of Aliens who are the enemies of the group arriving in numbers now many eons later. The huge distances between arrivals not being unrelated to what you were talking about earlier in the thread in regards to "time" and near speed of light travel.

a reply to: Direne

So, what is the real motive of your site Direne?

You know, you've shown different angles about your site.

So as you've shown different angles about yourselves.

What is real, and what is not?

a reply to: joshint

If it's aliens attempting to anonymously give human beings a turing test of sorts to determine if they should make contact or wipe most of us out...

I'm going to home depot there's some stuff I need.... lol

a reply to: criticalhit

I like how you think.

a reply to: Direne

You need to stop for a while and think about whether you are approaching the entire thing from a very narrow perspective: the American one.

Could i also ask the same of yourself...?

The Cultural Modeling Research Group [CMRG], 2008, 2009.) The simulation software described in this early working paper is now complete and is being released on a limited basis to cultural researchers. In its final form specialized cultural simulations can be built with the software without formal programming, using a graphic user interface [GUI]. At present to use it you need knowledge of at least one scripting language . Key participants to date: W. Zaumen, S. Farmer, R. Sproat, J.B. Henderson, M. Witzel, and B. Farmer, with others in a broad range of research fields soon to be added.

Inquiries are currently invited from professional researchers with a background in Java, Javascript, or Python interested in using the software to develop advanced cultural simulations in archaeology, anthropology, historical linguistics, philology, and related fields.

Cultural Modeling Research Group, a network of researchers in cultural history, philology, computational linguistics, and related fields founded in 2008 by me, Richard Sproat, Michael Witzel, and the physicist Bill Zaumen. Part of our work involves new simulation software applicable to modeling cultural evolution in general.

CMRG

The origins of Cassini Diskus

CMRG was founded in 2008 and is as far as i'm aware ongoing, I'm not saying you're American but the overall project seems to have originated there.

Our original models focused on evolutionary growths in the relatively "closed" (and often bizarre) world of manuscript traditions, resulting in the familiar hierarchical or correlative forms of so-called scholastic systems. On the model, the main "engine" behind such growths was the repeated application to "authoritative" traditions of small sets of exegetical methods, aimed at reconciling conflicts that piled up in those traditions over long periods. This iterative process resulted in the appearance in all premodern literate societies of exaggerated correlative models of the world, which in later forms ncreasingly mirrored the fractal structures of the topographic or analogical "maps" the brain uses to effect such reconciliations


Talking to the Gods: Neurobiology, Auditory-Visual Hallucinations

Even though the project originated in America however the global contacts are impressive.

Link to the Indo-Eurasian_Research List, moderated by Steve Farmer (comparative history, cultural neurobiology), Michael Witzel (Harvard: Indology, comparative mythology, linguistics), Lars Martin Fosse (Oslo: Indology, linguistics), and Benjamin Fleming (University of Pennsylvania: Indology, comparative religion). The List focuses on premodern studies globally. Core members are located in South Asia, Iran, China, Russia, Eastern and Western Europe, Australia, Japan, and the United States.

It's noteworthy that CMRG concerned itself with the impact of archaeological hoaxes and how these can influence the direction which a particularly society takes, as in Horeseplay in Harappa, from an experimental perspective would it not be interesting to perpetrate such a hoax?

The dangers in such research and who might be interested in getting on board with it are obvious, the understanding of what needs to be fed into a society in order to direct it's future development as one see's fit, the means to control.

It does not apply at all to, say, the Moldavian one.

Yay for Moldavia...

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Is that your latest theory? Let me see if I can state it plainly: so, you state that FL is a CMRG group whose evil goal is to direct the future development of society. And they do that by manipulating the archaeological record, all over the planet.

Obviously, you assume the vast majority of the society is interested in archaeology. And you assume entire societies can be manipulated by manipulating archaeological sites. Interesting.

Tell me something, Kantzveldt, in what parallel world do you live?