The Language of Vampyr

a reply to: Anaana

You need to define what do you understand by UAP. Not everything that glitters, glints, shines, sparkles, or glows is a UAP. The key element is whether it maneuvers or not in an intentional manner, and whether it can take decisions based on new information. The UAP can show collision avoidance behavior and react to stimuli, yet mosquitoes and seagulls do that, and any unmanned probe would do that. They all, life forms and robotic probes, do behave according to an algorithm. Humans too.

However, life forms do not glitter, shine, sparkle, or glow the way orbs do, so you can dismiss them as life forms. The only possibilities left are either they are unmanned probes, or they are manned spacecrafts. The possibility of they being just a physical phenomena is also dismissed as physical phenomena do not show intentionality and do not learn from new information. Elf, sprites, fireballs, etc. do not learn and they always behave the same.

Therefore, you are left with only two possibilities which reduce to just one: UAPs are artificial.

Now, if they are artificial, you need to explain how they work. Their behavior is easily replicated by your own robots and drones, so nothing new here. The evasion course, collision avoidance, and navigation and control are also easily replicated. You can hypothesize their are artificial devices consisting of confined plasma acting as a shield around the probe for whatever reasons, but this also is ruled out as plasma is highly affected by strong magnetic fields, which is not the case for orbs. So no plasma.

A reasonable hypothesis would be this: a probe surrounded by an anti gravity field. As photons sustain a tiny mass, they too are repelled by anti gravity, hence all photons hitting the field would bounce off and what you'd see would be, precisely, a ball of light. You can also assume the anti gravity field can be modulated to make it transparent to some wavelengths, but not to others, and this would explain the changing colors.

However, this poses a big problem: how to generate anti gravity for such a small probe or, in essence, how to generate anti gravity at all. I, for one, do not believe in anti gravity for philosophical reasons, so my view is that the mechanism involved must be simpler than plasma. If they were plasma-based, we would have downed many of them a long time ago.

a reply to: Direne

We had already, only a few posts back, established that I differentiated between a variety of UAPs, and in my question I qualified with "some UAPs". I am capable on learning. And of listening. Very, very important that.

I appreciate your reply, but it does not even attempt to answer my question. If you don't know something it is always better to say so rather than opine within the limits of your imagination.

Humility is key, both to intent and learning.

a reply to: Anaana

If you don't know something...

Anaana, isn't it equally arrogant to state that you do not know something than to state you do know something? And, more specifically, isn't it more arrogant he who accuses someone else of not knowing something, than he who states he knows something?

If it is difficult for anyone to know whether he knows or does not know something, wouldn't be even more difficult to know if someone else knows or does not know something?

Noh?

originally posted by: Direne
Anaana, isn't it equally arrogant to state that you do not know something than to state you do know something? And, more specifically, isn't it more arrogant he who accuses someone else of not knowing something, than he who states he knows something?

I wasn't accusing you of arrogance merely of skating away from the question that I asked with needless repetition, but in answer to both your questions, yes, I suppose it could be, that would depend on the something and the circumstances, I'd hate to make a blanket and absolute judgement, shouldn't all things be considered on a case by case basis? Sometimes people think that they are doing the right thing because that is what they have been told is the right thing to do, ignorance can be a defense for some, so surely it should be a defense for all? If ignorance can be overcome in some, surely it can be overcome in all, no?

I honestly don't know the whole answer, I only know my part of the answer, that is why I asked the question to see what others, you directly, thought, because I do not know and I accept that I cannot see the whole picture. You, however, while talking the talk of Systems seem to struggle at walking it, constantly slipping into referring to "you" in your responses to some, as though you are in some way above or removed from the situation, and after you and I had an exchange about being the observer and the observed. So if you are not part of us does that make you one of them and if you are one of them what does that make you in relation to we?

a reply to: Anaana

I see your point, Anaana. My apologies, for I did not get what you were up to when you posed your questions. No, I am not one of you . As for them , there are several theys involved. Intelligence (or ignorance) is not a matter of genotype, rather, it is a question of time. Given sufficient time, and under the same conditions, all civilizations evolve and are capable of reaching the same level of technological achievement. The decisions they take will determine how long they will walk the path of evolution, provided no high level event interrupts abruptly that evolution.

So yes, Anaana, learning is an evolutionary advantage. Learning to adapt to a changing environment is essential for the evolution of a species. It was a rapidly changing environment what triggered evolutionary changes on some species here. The appearance of Homo habilis was just that: a response to dramatic environmental changes.

There were once on this planet many them , coexisting. Then there were only four, later on two, and finally one: you. A new environmental change is ongoing, one that explains your migraines, those hard winters, those droughts, that increase in some neurological traits, and the increasing sensation that there is a change at the spiritual level. Brains are complicated structures, they fight to adapt to new scenarios, new situations, biological challenges. To understand this you need to stand in the Neanderthal's shoes, to see the world the way a Denisovan kid did in her latter days, or to feel what a modern North Sentinelese woman feel. You need to feel the soul of an Amerindian young who happens to be face to face with a bulldozer for the first (and last) time in his life.

A quickly changing environment has devastating effects on the brain and the soul. The closer you find yourself to such a change, the greater the anxiety. The greater the sensation of being lost.

Many of the questions people ask about them are already answered by looking at yourself, as a species. You are the aliens in Amerindia. You were the aliens in Denisova. If you wish to know if there is a pattern in UFOs visits (not just UFO sightings), try to remember where was the last time those other hominins were thriving and dying. Why a UFO in a school in Zimbabwe? Why in the Altai mountains? Why in Gisel? Why Arizona, New Mexico, Utah? Why the Anasazi? The answer to your question about some UAPs (theirs) is positive: yes, those ones are gathering data. Much as you measure the Antarctic ice sheet, the ozone layer, the extinction of birds, amphibians, and plants, they also measure the risk of your own extinction.

Let me know please if this answers your questions.

originally posted by: Direne
Let me know please if this answers your questions.

I will, but I need to think about it first. I liked it though. Cheers.

ETA...reading through it again...when I said I liked it, I meant in terms of comprehension rather than enjoyment...it's a bit grim but then the world does seem intent on going to hell in a hand cart...I just shovel # for a living, what can I do, my super powers are wasted on me...

Anyway, will sleep on it, but thoughts aplenty, thanks Direne.

originally posted by: Direne

they also measure the risk of your own extinction.

And do 'they' care? Does whether or not we go extinct matter to 'them'?

a reply to: Direne
Please then, Direne:

No, I am not one of you

What exacxtly does that mean? Are you not an ATSer, not a human, not an earthling, what, exactly? One of "you." For that implies you know what "we" are, and all of us are "you, we, etc…."

See, how tiresome this gets?
Just identify whom/what you are, already, and quit the arrogance of assuming to know already what/whom the rest of us are….for that's what this business implies.

You first. I, for one…..wink, wink, am not showing you what I am, till you show me yours.
LOL
tetra

a reply to: lostgirl

And do 'they' care? Does whether or not we go extinct matter to 'them'?

They care, in exactly the same way you do care for African people. A rainbow of feelings: from the "I don't care at all, for helping them is useless with all those war lords messing around", to the "Something must be done". From the "that's a remote place, anyway, and sure they've got what they deserve", to the "at least we could give some medical help, set up schools, get involved". Some do care, but do nothing. Some do care, and try to help. Others think helping is out of the question. They do care, just as you do care. Some do not care at all, just as you don't.

a reply to: tetra50

You are right, it is tiresome. You are wrong: you are already showing me whom you are. Actually, I am not interested in whether you believe in the existence of civilizations in other stellar systems and what you think of them. I think it is more helpful to know what you think about your own civilization. Do you care for others here? Is not arrogance from your side assuming you do? Tell me.

a reply to: Direne

they also measure the risk of your own extinction.

Extinction? pfft. Humans spread fast like a virus.

You first. I, for one…..wink, wink, am not showing you what I am, till you show me yours.

What's yours?

a reply to: Direne

They care, in exactly the same way you do care for African people.

Of course they care, Just like how muricans enslaved African people.

They do care, just as you do care.

Of course they care, it's just a feeling anyway.
Caring is just a feeling away... pfft.

You are wrong: you are already showing me whom you are.

Because he/she's naked right?

I am not interested in whether you believe in the existence of civilizations in other stellar systems and what you think of them.

For obvious reasons.

I think it is more helpful to know what you think about your own civilization.

It's helpful for her, so tell her what you think about our own civilization guys. Help her out.

Civilization?

I need a definition. I thought to respond to "human civilization" but that feels like "species" I am of a species but don't feel I have a common "civilization". I thought to respond to my national status but that's a politic or imaginary boundaries something "unreal" to me. Religion I was born to that.

I don't feel like I have a "Civilization" the word feels like it implies something more than we have a greater unity? I don't know.

Do dogs have romance?

How do I feel about my civilization? It's in process? Almost? Rudimentary?

originally posted by: Direne
Do you care for others here?

Though the question was not directed to me, I would like to share my answer:

(First you need to know that I have lived a very long time in my 51 years, so you must not take what I say here the least bit lightly)


I care. I care so much for this world - the Earth and all it's peoples - that I have had to form a 'shield' of sorts to protect myself from the world's pain...

Without that shield, I am in empathy to such a degree that quite literally -

- I can 'feel' this world dying all around me...

...and for a little while, the pain was killing me right along with it.


I think this is the worst part of being 'who I am'...or perhaps it is the best?


And this: Link
will take you to a post which gives my theory about why mankind deserves our compassion...

(the start of the post is more in response to that thread topic - it segues into my "theory")

a reply to: lostgirl

If you can feel it dying, can you also feel it living and giving birth?

Both are happening!

a reply to: lostgirl

It is the best part of you. Having compassion for others is being alive. We are talking about contact, about how they and you see each other. About being afraid. It seems my language shows deficiencies to express my arguments. I think a video will do a better job.

I will show you a video. it is the best video of a UFO sighting you'll ever see. You'll be able to see the interior of the UFO, the life forms navigating that UFO, and the people sighting the UFO above their heads. Please, pay attention to how people react, look at their eyes, how they move, how they stand petrified. Pay also attention to the UFO crew, their words, their faces. For a really intense experience, switch off the sound. Just read the subtitles. It is a very short video.

But it is the best video of a UFO sighting. Here, your video:

Contact

a reply to: Serdgiam

No, I do not feel that at all...

...but not a day goes by that I don't pray for a miracle of 'rebirth' to be visited upon the world -

...and I work very hard to carry on remembering - that I do, in fact, believe in miracles.

@Direne Hi, never formally introduced myself back there.

I just read this thread last night. The Vampyr title had led to me never opening it prior. I finally did and lo and behold all this interesting conversation kept me up we'll past dawn.

Staying with the topic at hand for now, it's going into the culture shock of sudden change. I just watched the last video you posted and i'm wondering, do you think the"mind" can be exposed young enough via intent to just not really suffer through these experiences?

Above Lost girl says she doesn't know if "it's her best or worst quality" and you responded that compassion was good. But by saying "worst" I believe she is referring to "the pain". Personally, reading from a ridiculously young age Science Fiction was a staple of my childhood. I'm talking about adult books from the library from the age of 4 to 5, children's books from around 2.

Don't get me wrong in saying this, I have compassion but I don't feel like I suffer from it, there was a time when the loss of one of my animals or human tragedy in the world would upset me but now... I don't want to use the word amusement, acceptance, detachment. It's very hard to pin the feeling down, like lacking a word in English sort of or lacking knowing the word... Worry, I don't worry about the Earth, people a bit sometimes, but it feels like process to me, stop pain and suffering when I can, appreciate what ever happens even when it's horrible. But the video the "shock" I think it would take a lot more than seeing an Orb or some similar thing, In truth I live in the Sedona/Flagstaff area and while never any kind of close contact I "see" odd things all the time, mostly I don't pay attention for more than a second and that's just hoping it's coming closer.

But I digress, do you think exposure to "content" particularly while young can create a "tolerance" to such things, make it easier for the human race to "handle" such experiences, is any one out there via intent dealing with the media to create such exposure, alien movies etc. Is that any part of your work with languages? Also what do you think of "emotion" you refer to her compassion as important, the best part. but is the pain healthy? Should it be experienced over and over is learning to have tolerance for catastrophe for lack of a better term a good thing or a numbness? I want to be honest, sometimes I see, people or read posts by people that are just flowered with sentiment, strikingly emotive and I agree with the sentiment but think to myself, "child get a grip" control that Empathy it's all over the place.

I guess the question is where do you stand on the Spock vs Captain Kirk views of sentience?

a reply to: Direne

Earlier on in the week I imagined myself in front of a control panel that represented points in time, evolutionary speaking, ideas down to forms of life. A series of levers that could take us back to where all the trouble started, so to speak. I worked by way back down, then ran restart, but we kept on making the same mistakes. By the time I got to that last lever, the one that took us back to single cell life forms, I realised that this was never going to work. We always end up at the same point. It doesn't matter how many times we rewind and restart, the consequence is always going to be the same. We either change or we go extinct. First we have to stabilise though.

So, if placed in a position of having to say anything to an Amerindian, given that we should not be cutting down any indigenous forestry and therefore we should only be making completely passive movements towards them in order to explain that yes we're the wankers destroying the Earth and we're not going to bother them, but if they would be so kind, we would appreciate it if they have any advice.

But, the bulldozer says it all. It is a devouring monster, and eater of trees. It takes away and puts back domesticated trees that are all the same...lots of rubber, so that we in the West can have rubbery things, like tyres. Another reason I don't drive, but I still consume some, I am in no way blameless, I do try to be mindful though. Same with everything that I buy, but I am not perfect. Domesticated trees don't talk the language that the Amerindians talk and the pesticides and other chemicals that are no doubt introduced shut down their other lines of communication with their ecosystem, which will eventually lead to the collapse of that ecosystem as it has everywhere else it has touched.

The tree canopy is the dispersal means for a variety of flora and maybe fungal spores that assist in creating precipitation patterns and transport elements into the atmosphere, possibly even involved in "building" the structure of the atmosphere given that some of these bacteria are associated with the formation of ice, it is reasonable to presume that those that reach a higher energy level would enable movement to the mesophere, for example, suggesting a role in the transportation of essential elements from the nucleus up through the layers of the atmosphere. Without a tree canopy, any self-regulating system, that has a memory of the time before trees, is going to have a back up system to get those minerals into the air. That is what volcanos are for.

originally posted by: Direne
a reply to: lostgirl

It is the best part of you. Having compassion for others is being alive. We are talking about contact, about how they and you see each other. About being afraid. It seems my language shows deficiencies to express my arguments. I think a video will do a better job.

I will show you a video. it is the best video of a UFO sighting you'll ever see. You'll be able to see the interior of the UFO, the life forms navigating that UFO, and the people sighting the UFO above their heads. Please, pay attention to how people react, look at their eyes, how they move, how they stand petrified. Pay also attention to the UFO crew, their words, their faces. For a really intense experience, switch off the sound. Just read the subtitles. It is a very short video.

But it is the best video of a UFO sighting. Here, your video:

Contact

I think I understand your point with regard to the fearful reactions of the people witnessing the 'UFO'...

But the same video illustrates my point - that humanity deserves the intervention of anyone 'out there' with the means to save this world...

The very purpose of the video was to gain help in 'saving' the 'world' of those being filmed...

In the video was the line, "Contact should be their choice."...

...Well, if they could know that they were in danger, wouldn't they choose to be contacted?

Or at least, might there not be individuals among them who would 'volunteer' to be contacted in order to be given awareness of the situation and knowledge that attempts at assistance were being made?

Perhaps there are even individuals among them who (by whatever means) understand the people's endangerment and would welcome being contacted personally in order to aid in gaining assistance by speaking to other 'UFO' 'crews' on behalf of the people...