The Language of Vampyr

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

The only God to count on to do what all gods do... Absolutely nothing.

Yes, but we are still waiting for that Crom to at least have the decency to do something: committ suicide.

As for the rest of gods and goddesses, we will help them... to hang themselves.

Only then you will be real humans.

BTW: hang with them some of those technopaths who talk about uploading minds and transhumanism. There are still lots of trees available.

a reply to: Direne

Fine if this thread wants to fall into the ridiculousness of a banter so be it!
CROM!
Crush your enemies,
See them driven before you,
And hear the lamentation of the women....


Now back to reality or this poor substitute of it...Dirine you never answered my questions...
And please you have enough of a grasp of English to discern what I am asking to answer without riddles or vague and elusive responses.

Thank you.

a reply to: abeverage

No, no, no - please, I beg you - no more banter...

...Join with me in pleading that everyone cease and desist feeding the troll!

Note to Thread followers:

I see a lot of great and vague ideas being expressed but not being communicated. Quoting myriads of ancient texts, philosophical or scientific papers only shows the incomprehension of proper communication.

Hijacking the thread with deriding, retaliatory and trolling comments meant not in fun or jest for one's own personal agenda or ego only shows again a lack of understanding.

True communication only occurs when both listener and speaker can relate with comprehension.

Einstein one of the greatest, if not the greatest human minds put it simply just like his equations...
“If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.”

Not grasping the conversation is not due to the comprehension of the listen/reader who relies upon the speaker/writer to convey their ideas properly. The lack of expressing ideas to a level of understanding without ridicule is a complete breakdown of communication.

When this failure occurs we're essentially communicating nothing...perhaps that is truly the language of the vampire.

originally posted by: Direne
a reply to: abeverage

Mr. Mack collected stories of abductions and experiencers. He found them to be coherent and telling one same story. The most baffling part is that about a light filling the room, and the experiencers being transported, slowly, going through walls and solid objects.

Mr. Everett claimed that the formalism of quantum mechanics, taken completely literally, describes a reality where every macroscopic superposition of quantum states is really a splitting of the universe into parallel copies.

He did not explain how to jump from one copy to the next. Abductees know nothing about Mr. Everett's interpretation of QM. Mr. Everett knew nothing about experiencers and abductees. Yet, it seems someone knows about quantum states and the splitting of the universe into parallel copies... and how to jump from one copy of the universe to the next. During such a jump, you can go through a wall of concrete. You cannot remember what you experienced while being in a copy of the universe. Memories belong to the universe where you are at a particular moment.

Current physics makes many-worlds quantum theory compulsory. This means it makes the possibility of going through solid objects compulsory.

If Mr. Mack would had written down the dates at which most reported abductions occur, he would had concluded that they peak from November to December. This pattern needs be explained.

Most wars on planet Earth break out from July to August. This pattern needs be explained.

We are running an experiment and we have set August, 5th to be the date on which a high level event should happen in the Middle East, with 99.9999% certainty. We do believe in Mr. Everett's interpretation of QM, so we know we will be correct in at least one of the copies of the universe. We wish to know if this is the copy of the universe in which that event will happen. If it happens, then we will know how to go through a wall of concrete whenever we wish. And we will be the ones abducting. To their surprise.

So, the above is where we were before the (self-admitted) troll took us off track -

Direne, I read a work of fiction once where they described making an opening in a wall by pushing the molecules closer together...

...example: imagine a 'wall' made of many strings of beads which you push to the sides in order to make an opening to step thru...

Is this something like you were trying to express in the post where you were using the analogy of being in the 'wall building business'?

a reply to: abeverage

Yes, you are right. I am sorry. Please accept my sincere apologies. I'll need to go back to your latest posts to recall what were your questions. Now, I promise I'll answer them if I can give you an answer. About whether we ever met or not, yes, we did. People seeking answers to fundamental questions always meet each other. Seekers walk the same path.

lostgirl, yes, the issue about going through walls is this: we need to prove or disprove the weirdest part of a story in order to judge the story as plausible, probable, possible, unlikely, or impossible. My view is that we need to stick to both physics, and metaphysics. The question on whether you are alone, as a planetary civilization, or on the contrary, whether there are other worlds out there equates to asking whether there is anything that violates the laws of physics, as we know them, that completely rules out that scenario. So far the answer is clear: no, there is nothing ruling out that scenario.

The question whether there could be intelligent species on those planets is also clear and adheres to the laws of physics, as we currently understand them: no, there is nothing preventing the existence of those species.

The question on whether those species could cover the distance between your world and theirs is also positive: they can cover that distance without violating any law of physics.

The question on whether there could be a civilization that for whatever reason is devoted to abduct specimens of another world is also positive, though this time the answer comes from History, and not from Physics.

However, the question on whether is it possible to abduct a biological entity by projecting a beam that allows that entity to be transported aboard a ship crossing through a wall needs be investigated. We need to first understand what laws of physics would be involved in such a deed before ruling out that scenario. I think this is the debate.

Obviously, accepting that physics does not rule out the existence of extraterrestrials, it is obvious that their existence is time-independent, that is, they can exist now, tomorrow, or yesterday. Time is irrelevant.

Now, whether those guys are grays, ancient, or NSA employees is not relevant. The relevant thing is whether you can use a beam to bring an apple to my desk, assuming the apple is 200 meters away from me, and that between the apple and me there is a thick wall of concrete. That is the question at hand. Do you agree?

a reply to: Direne
Ya well the whole of human histories is just a long list of bad ideas upon bad ideas. I think somewhere along the lines people forgot that these things ideas, believes, ideologies, religions, code of conducts, the whole thing. Well they all have an expiration date, just like the fruits at the supermarket do, at one time they may have worked, at another time... Not.

And transhumans are just another group who are overcompensating for something, kind of like the people who believe colonizing other planets is the cure to all there problems when they can even life in harmony with a planet which was practically tailor made for them, now how stupid is that, they to are overcompensating for something.

Who knows so many religious people around, one group even believes that one person can represent millions and millions of people as well, of all the bat # crazy ideas, yet they believe it, so its there reality. Its hard to keep track of them and all there believes, and I am quite sure that all they believe will come to a reality. Look the effects of that are being played out now...Which is good, because if it was all played you later, they would not likely survive there believes and ideologies, same as the Sumerians did not survive theirs.

a reply to: Kantzveldt
Sorry I dont believe you, what prof do you have any of it existed outside of its time? I see very much less of this make happen thing. And just so you know today the god of agriculture is Monsonto, people pray and make things happen for it, and they do happen, and they do exist. What you describe may have happened at one point in time in some long lost history, but its also likely that it has nothing to do with anything today.

And crom is yet still the most real god out there, though he is followed by Odin, and Odin to has kept one promise at least, he has promised to slay all ice giants if people elect him. And well you see no ice giants around today now do you.

All gods are parodies of the existence of human minds.

originally posted by: Direne
a reply to: abeverage

Yes, you are right. I am sorry. Please accept my sincere apologies. I'll need to go back to your latest posts to recall what were your questions. Now, I promise I'll answer them if I can give you an answer. About whether we ever met or not, yes, we did. People seeking answers to fundamental questions always meet each other. Seekers walk the same path.

Direne,

No apology necessary, perhaps only some courtesy?

My main curiosity stems from this...Why are you suddenly back to ATS after nearly a 2 year absence? What purpose does it serve? Recruitment, curiosity, an experiment or other reason? You seem to be only really drawn to this thread in particular, yet are still vague to FL's purpose? Or am I wrong?

As far as us meeting do you mean here a few years back on ATS? Or do you mean in person or on another site...have to admit you have me at a disadvantage so please refresh my memory?

Thank you for your time.

a reply to: Direne
What makes you think that disproving wall beams has anything to do with potential for extra terrestrial life out there? For all you know the gray dwarfs may not be that much more technologically advanced then humans, they just may be more aware of the working of the inner mind and how we perceive reality.

So technically they dont need to abduct humans through a wall, they need to infiltrate there inner psyche, once yo do that you can pretty much make them see what you want to see, for instance like you walking through a wall and kidnapping them. Really a wall beam would be less effective, now a dream beam or a perception modifier beam may work much more better if you really wanted to study a foreign species.

So it could be instead of saucer flying by zapping house with wall beam, its saucer flies by zaps house with go through walls mind beams which effect the human biological and mental process, it would be like if you had access to the cloud system today's computers and companies use for various reasons. And the rest is history and well, its not that hard to make humans see what they want to see, even today we have wars because one group of people holds similar but contrary believes in there heads. So if a species which is more familier with the inner workings of the mind/body system comes along. How hard do you think it would be for them to do what they wanted in this place called earth?

So many variables really that its basically pointless to even think about it. Though some can be reasoned out, however all just depending on what reason your using.

originally posted by: Direne
To understand a belief system you need to understand the social processes within which that system is embedded.
...

Language is more than just a set of grammatical rules: it embeds culture. What would have we learned about, say, Sumerians, if we were to just scan the cuneiform tablets and get a translation? Would we be able to grasp the deep meaning of those words? Would we be able to learn about their cultural values and religious beliefs? What about the English language? Haven't the native speakers lost more than what they've gained in terms of identity?

I'm finding this thread absolutely fascinating. Especially this part ^ recently posted.

We see isolated cultures being contaminated and dissolved even today. Have you seen the 2012 documentation "The Grammar of Happiness" about the Pirahã people of Brazil?

www.smithsonianchannel.com/shows/the-grammar-of-happiness
wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirahã_people

For an ancient (and dissolved) civilization like the Sumerians, we don't really understand how language shaped their culture. We have what's written, sure, but it seems as if they had and understanding of the universe which we can't totally grasp.

Looking forward to seeing what human or universal patterns FL and Direne can explain.

originally posted by: Direne

lostgirl,
yes, the issue about going through walls is this: we need to prove or disprove the weirdest part of a story in order to judge the story as plausible, probable, possible, unlikely, or impossible. My view is that we need to stick to both physics, and metaphysics. The question on whether you are alone, as a planetary civilization, or on the contrary, whether there are other worlds out there equates to asking whether there is anything that violates the laws of physics, as we know them, that completely rules out that scenario. So far the answer is clear: no, there is nothing ruling out that scenario.

The question whether there could be intelligent species on those planets is also clear and adheres to the laws of physics, as we currently understand them: no, there is nothing preventing the existence of those species.

The question on whether those species could cover the distance between your world and theirs is also positive: they can cover that distance without violating any law of physics.

The question on whether there could be a civilization that for whatever reason is devoted to abduct specimens of another world is also positive, though this time the answer comes from History, and not from Physics.

However, the question on whether is it possible to abduct a biological entity by projecting a beam that allows that entity to be transported aboard a ship crossing through a wall needs be investigated. We need to first understand what laws of physics would be involved in such a deed before ruling out that scenario. I think this is the debate.

Obviously, accepting that physics does not rule out the existence of extraterrestrials, it is obvious that their existence is time-independent, that is, they can exist now, tomorrow, or yesterday. Time is irrelevant.

Now, whether those guys are grays, ancient, or NSA employees is not relevant. The relevant thing is whether you can use a beam to bring an apple to my desk, assuming the apple is 200 meters away from me, and that between the apple and me there is a thick wall of concrete. That is the question at hand. Do you agree?

I absolutely agree...
...You've done an excellent job communicating your point here

I also think you are correct in that the question may be a matter of both physics and metaphysics...

It's been a couple of years since I visited this thread. What are you all you guys talking about? I went on that ForgottenLanguages website and could not tell you what I was looking at.
I saw some strange videos on that site that to this day I can't debunk or decipher. Very strange stuff. So after 118 pages of esoteric comments, posts and arguements....what is the final answer?

a reply to: Kratos40

There is no final answer -

Go to at least page 80 and start reading - try to avoid the troll posts, they only waste time - if you read at least the past 39 pages carefully you should gain an idea of everything we have 'ruled out' as to what is going on with the Forgotten Languages website...

Sorry, summarizing the thread is impossible - but some posts within those pages may explain bits and pieces...

a reply to: lostgirl

Thank you! I will try that.

Case Closed.

Doublepost

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Direne
"What makes you think that disproving wall beams has anything to do with potential for extra terrestrial life out there?"

Ruling out the possibility of wall beams does not necessarily means ruling out the potential for extra terrestrial life at all. It simply rules out one aspect of the alien abduction narrative that seems to be common to an important part of that narrative. If an abductee insists in that she or he was transported aboard a spaceship by the projection of such beams, and if we prove this violates fundamental laws of physics, it follows wall beams is just a figment of the abductee's brain and that this mechanism of abduction he/she tells about must be formulated on different grounds. I am not ruling out neither the existence of extra terrestrials nor the existence of abductions: I am ruling out the existence of wall beams.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Direne
"they dont need to abduct humans through a wall, they need to infiltrate there inner psyche, once yo do that you can pretty much make them see what you want to see"

Agree. However, the question is not whether they need to abduct humans through a wall, but rather, that even if they wished to do so, they wouldn't be able to do it as this is impossible for both them and us, according to the laws of physics.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Direne
"a perception modifier beam may work much more better if you really wanted to study a foreign species."

Sure, but this means you already have a knowledge about your target: that they are affected by your perception modifier beam. This also requires previous analyses of the brain of those targets, and a previous knowledge about their neurological arrangement, plus a lot of knowledge about their physiology. How did you get that knowledge? The reasonable way is to capture some "samples" and analyze them, much as we do when we study other life forms on our own planet. The use of perception modifiers means (drugs, beams, etc.) requires a thorough knowledge on how human brains work, and this knowledge requires sampling and experimenting. You just cannot assume your abduction kit will work on all and any species.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: Direne
"So if a species which is more familier with the inner workings of the mind/body system comes along. How hard do you think it would be for them to do what they wanted in this place called earth?"

That's it: for that alien species to be familiar with the inner workings of the mind/body system of a human they need to have performed previous analyses and physical research on that species. There is no other way. This means that, all in all, it is simply easier to perform the sampling the usual way: kidnapping some humans and subjecting them to the very same procedures you would follow were you to be the one studying those humans. Studying humans is no different from studying bugs or worms in the Costa Rican jungle. No need for wall beams.

a reply to: joshint

Our site is up and running, joshint. As for Kerysse and the YouTube channel, we silence them from time to time. The reason is there are a lot of third parties sites using our content and getting money out of it, so we close our channels from time to time for them to get the message.

a reply to: Direne
Who the grays?

They have there ups, they may be able to skip timelines, and some can even shift universes, and even the most advanced can travel far distances in space, but in some things there just slow. For instance it took them thousands of years to figure out that if you prick a human or drill a hole in there head and they make some funny sound vibrations, it may not be a good thing to do. There still arguing amongst themselfs of the veracity and reality of that information and if they should continue it, some will, some wont ect, they may be arguing about that for the next few hundred thousand years or so.

Now was any of that real or just more things I made up.

We can postulate all day about creatures which may or may not exist, flip it upside down and inside out to better understand it. However it may all just be nothing but mental gymnastics. And if you believe that your theory that if you somehow prove and show that by all laws of nature and the universe its impossible to transport somebody through a wall using a beam. Well what can I say. Even that is only assuming you know everything there is to know about nature and the laws of the universe. Which is assuming quite a lot once again.

Besides using a go through wall beam to abduct or examination or any purpose is kind of redundant because there are likely much more easier and more effective ways of achieving the same thing, one of which is what I said in the other post. After all it would be much easier and much more effective, you dont even need to go through any walls, the walls literally would not exist in that way, and really even today with our technology we have plenty of things that can go through walls, and its highly likely those reading this thread is using something like it, even WiFi would be considered go through wall technology. And here we are using such simple tech to communicate to each other without all the fuss that sound-waves bring with them.

Now what is the one consistent thing about these abductions? Somebody saw a light or saw a weird ship in the sky, it got closer and they could not tell what it was, suddenly it was getting closer and closer and then?... They wake up next day or a mile down the road and go on there way and only latter remember that time seemed to have missed a beat when they think about it, and none of it makes any sense, but there they are late to that party, or even on the wrong side of town for some reason and not even concerned about it...But hey life goes on in the day to day routine.