The Language of Vampyr

originally posted by: lostgirl
a reply to: Direne

Well, my goodness, welcome back! Forgive my curiosity, but:

Prior to today, your last post was on July 17, 2013 (pg. 37 of this thread) -

- and your last words in that post being,"See you all tomorrow.", I just have to ask:

Why did you leave so abruptly? And why have you suddenly come back after nearly 2 years?

How do you know it is not already "Tomorrow" to Direne?

When last she was here, she went on about relativistic speeds and time dilation and said see you all Tomorrow...

Fast forward Earth time by nearly 2 years (holy cats has it really been 2 years???) the ship is slowing down and it is tomorrow for her...Or maybe I watched Interstellar recently...Hehe...

She also had this to say about the Sumarians...

This all means, switching back to Sumerian mythology, that we tend to measure time in a very funny way: the way we are used to. And we do this even when relativity theory is there for us to teach us not to take things for granted. So, yes, people "coming out" from Naama (we call it Nemma, it means "ocean") will come. The question is when?

Is this what the countdown is referring to Direne the people of Nemma returning?

No worries Murph I got yer message!

originally posted by: abeverage

How do you know it is not already "Tomorrow" to Direne?

Good point, although it begs the question (dare I ask?)...
...where has she been all night?

a reply to: lostgirl

Sleeping! Duh..

a reply to: Direne

That's the joke: we both cannot manifest all the information that is available to us.

It's a really good one.

Thank you.

Probably off topic now, but I saw someone ask about the countdown timer.

The counter has to do with this:

en.wikipedia.org...

If you look at the table on the right side of that page you'll see 2015 requires a leap second to be inserted. FL spread the insertion so that each day they introduce some milliseconds till we finally adjust the time by August, 5th, 2015.
Exact timing is required for their simulations to work properly. They use complex systems that need be minutely synchronized.

And still, deep down, I'd still like to believe this is a countdown 'til assimilation.

All hail The Borg...uh, I mean, Giseliens!

That we cannot manifest all the information that is available to both of us means this: the universe is so vast, and the speed at which information travels so limited, that data is just meaningful to those in the nearby of the information source. If an answer to a question takes so many ligh years to arrive, what is the point of posing questions at all? What kind of an answer is that one that by the time it arrives we have even forgotten what the original question was? If the universe is so vast, what's the point of trying to know it?

All theories about Reality do describe Reality as it was a long long time ago. Can you call that "a science" at all? One thing is to study your past, say, the pre-Cambrian era, and quite another is to study your present, using long ago outdated data. It seems the universe is like a jail designed on apartheid: vast distances, to keep them all separated; vast distances to preventing them from being in touch; vast distances, to make any exchange of information useless.
That is what the sentence "we cannot manifest all the information that is available to both of us" really means.

Photographs of deep space objects that ceased to exist long time ago, and measurements of objects that do not exist anymore won't allow you to gain any knowledge about your present Reality. At least it serves to study the effects of causes that do not exist anymore. You won't be able to change those causes at all, so actually any knowledge is useless in such a vast universe. By the time we discover we are all but bits of information on the 2D surface of a black hole, used to recreate 3D worlds, and by the time we discover we all live inside a blackhole, we will infer this: we once were outside the black hole, we fell inside, and now we are just bits of information on its surface. That's what the hologram is all about.

One day the black hole will explode (again), and the real Universe will be recreated. How it will look like we don't know. And even if we knew, by the time that information arrives to us it will be, again, too late. The Universe seems to be the perfect evil machine. A perfect jail: distance rules.

The countdown has two roles. One, it informs us of the time left for us to correct local time for us to keep pace with the leap second, the one-second adjustment that is applied to Coordinated Universal Time in order to keep its time of day close to the mean solar time, an adjustment required to be at pace with the atomic time. We spread this correction adding some millisecons each day, till we reach the date (August the 5th) in which atomic time is again
recovered. Two, it allows us to correctly align our systems to the local time where we happen to be. As time is quantized, it is important to get it right if you wish to correctly describe events. Controlling Time is one of the more important tasks any civilization gets involved in.

Any civilization is always worried with Time. The easiest way is to use your local star as a reference. All past civilizations on Earth did that, which means they were acting and reacting to events with an 8 minutes and 20 seconds delay. That's the time it takes for the Sun to communicate with you. This is key: we are all photobiological beings, so any delay means we are all photobiologically-delayed beings. This has profound implications.

a reply to: Th3D0Ct0R

Why do you still like to believe the countdown is a countdown til assimilation? Would assimilation be bad in any way?
There where you live you have a very nice example on what happens when two civilizations "collide". And there where you live you must agree with me... you are the Giselians, from the aboriginal point of view, I mean. Do you agree?

a reply to: Direne

Are you sure that you have factored in the Moon in all of this Direne...?

"His logical conclusion, having weighed the matter and allowing for possible error?

That it was not a heaventree, not a heavengrot, not a heavenbeast, not a heavenman. That it was a Utopia, there being no known method from the known to the unknown: an infinity renderable equally finite by the suppositious apposition of one or more bodies equally of the same and of different magnitudes: a mobility of illusory forms immobilised in space, remobilised in air: a past which possibly had ceased to exist as a present before its probable spectators had entered actual present existence."

Was he more convinced of the esthetic value of the spectacle?

Indubitably in consequence of the reiterated examples of poets in the delirium of the frenzy of attachment or in the abasement of rejection invoking ardent sympathetic constellations or the frigidity of the satellite of their planet.

Did he then accept as an article of belief the theory of astrological influences upon sublunary disasters?

It seemed to him as possible of proof as of confutation and the nomenclature employed in its selenographical charts as attributable to verifiable intuition as to fallacious analogy: the lake of dreams, the sea of rains, the gulf of dews, the ocean of fecundity.

What special affinities appeared to him to exist between the moon and woman?

Her antiquity in preceding and surviving successive tellurian generations: her nocturnal predominance: her satellitic dependence: her luminary reflection: her constancy under all her phases, rising and setting by her appointed times, waxing and waning: the forced invariability of her aspect: her indeterminate response to inaffirmative interrogation: her potency over effluent and refluent waters: her power to enamour, to mortify, to invest with beauty, to render insane, to incite to and aid delinquency: the tranquil inscrutability of her visage: the terribility of her isolated dominant implacable resplendent propinquity: her omens of tempest and of calm: the stimulation of her light, her motion and her presence: the admonition of her craters, her arid seas, her silence: her splendour, when visible: her attraction, when invisible.

Jmes Joyce-Ulysses

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Known unknowns, and unknown unknowns. Those are the unknowns, so far. I grant you that under the moonlight, some unknowns become beautiful. No matter how unknown they remain.

a reply to: Direne

A need to know basis, a tree cares little if a group of amateur photographers compare their snapshots from the previous year taken from varying perspectives and distances and realize they are no longer looking at quite the same tree, it is functioning perfectly adequately in it's current configuration following rules determined even before there was a tree.

The unreliability of dependence on light is such that one could be looking at a Christmas tree in the dark and seeing only the baubles, not even realizing that there was a tree, not even seeing the wires that facilitate the flow of electrons, eyes drawn only to the Fairy that bedazzles atop.

If one wishes to travel to a distant star the best method is to become as water and travel there through capillary action, a return to the great aquatic thoroughfare, or at least that's the traditional, don't let the scale of the thing put you off, or the Giselians.


Another option is to adopt the way of the Turtle and make contained space travel your natural environment, that's slow but steady.

a reply to: Direne



Information at the speed of light! It sounds so very fast, relatively speaking.

Interestingly, by merging several consecutive time frames, the potential increases beyond the perceived sum of the parts. Given the nature, less information is perceived in one time frame, and yet, more data is rendered available regardless. The choice between details or vectors then yields an actual increase in information quantity, and due to amplification, information quality. If one only has the lens capable of parsing the events in both real time and over time. Ideally, outside of time as well.

The accuracy of any time keeping, in this respect, is compromised by any anomalies in the rolling movement of spacetime because of a lack of a frame of reference. However, it is also in these moments that other threads can be woven and attached to the resulting loop.

Expanding the perspective beyond the medium of spacetime is a bit like a fish out of water.. But repeated movements over certain amounts of time can result in everything from the ability to walk on land, or fly through the air. Compressed (relativistic) time frames would appear to accelerate the process to an observer, even beyond expected measurements.

This concept, extrapolated, leads to the idea of information transfer that occurs outside of any time reference, as well as manifesting within the medium. I imagine it to be a bit like "what is on the other side of a hole in a donut?" And it is somehow just as delicious.

a reply to: Serdgiam

I see your point. However, you should bear in mind that what holds for information, it also holds for disinformation. Information travels at the speed of light, and so does disinformation. The repeated movements over certain amounts of time do indeed result in all kind of "miracles". The maximum speed at which you can cycle around your closed timelike is still the speed of light. It is true that time is just a measurement between two events and that, therefore, the quickest you perform that measurement, the more you freeze time, so to speak.

The problem here is one of observers and observed ones. The Universe, the set of all possible events, is always different for an observer than for the one being observed. For an observer, time freezes, time can be twisted, time can be contracted or expanded. For the observed one, time just flows.

It takes 3 light years to go to a given star, but for the one actually travelling the trip lasts just weeks. Communication is an exchange of ideas, views, and experiences. What exchange can be established between an observer for whom time just flows, and one observer for which time actually contracted? No communication at all. The very moment you travel at the speed of light anyone and anything outside your ship becomes "alien", strange, weird. And for the observers, you are alien, strange, weird. If you happen to meet a traveller from a distant world, the most stupid questions would be "where are you from?, how does your world look like?".

This is so because by the time he meets you, his world has totally changed, or even disappeared. He belongs to nowhere. There is no room for communication, I mean, for exchanging views, experiences, dreams, ideas. Whatever he might tell you relates to a world for which aeons have passed and that bears no resemblance to the actual world he left behind.

And if he happens to invite you aboard his spaceship for a ride, better for you to refuse, otherwise by the time you come back to Earth everything here would be so much different that now you are the alien yourself. You will be confronted to strange people in strange customs asking you... where are you from, and how does your world look like. You see, at that very moment you will feel totally alone, detached, orphan. The solitude of the space traveller tells about the solitude of the Universe itself. We are all one. Alone. Just like God Himself.

Aren't we all God, after all?

a reply to: Direne

Is that a story from personal experience? I had a similar journey, but I never left my house. It will happen again soon.

I actually view disinformation to be information. Perhaps more as a subcategory than anything else. Wherein, depending on the perceiver, any given piece of data can lead to valid, effective, and measurable growth.

In the train of thought outlined in my previous post, information exists outside of time altogether, but it permeates through it. Within the medium itself, from one point to another, it is a matter of movement through time. Outside, it exists in a form that connects to all points within the medium simultaneously, allowing for instantaneous transfer of any and all data to a given point in time and space. Note the word point, rather than "system" or "being." This allows for communication without boundaries other than those placed by the beings/systems involved. Here and now, such a concept does not have a chapter, paragraph, or even a sentence in the book of our cultural story.

Are we really alone? The question seems to contain its own answer. I see each of us as lenses that refract and reflect the information. Each a part of the grandeur of all that exists, no part itself omnipresent, but connecting to that which is and putting its own 'spin' on the artwork that is unfolding. In many respects, I see this as a great responsibility. The movements between observer and action as a dance, a song of the cosmos that can either destroy or nurture.

In my own journey, I found that home is a state of mind rather than a specific point in space and time. In that way, I am always home.. I just move around a lot.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Well yes, you are right Serdgiam, whether a piece of data becomes information or disinformation depends on the perceiver's ability to extract valid results from it. I also agree with you that information creates Time (this is implied in your statement). It exists prior to Time itself. Actually, Time is just a carrier.

Maybe consciousness is just a ripple of information. Consciousness is a state of information, much like matter, and energy. Ways in which information shapes itself in order to exist. Perhaps life forms are just containers of consciousness? Or perhaps life forms are just an excuse for Time to exist?

a reply to: Direne

Interesting that you perceive that I implied information creates time. I actually wasnt implying that intentionally, but it is something I must give some thought towards! I need to properly brain mangle it. Though, a part of me feels time (and it's resultant space) is only one medium, or carrier, among many. It is just the dominant carrier, or primal medium, here where we are.

I like that you used the word 'ripple.' I think it is a visually accurate word. We can see them in the surface tension of water, and perhaps even in filaments on the surface tension of stars.

I think "containers" is a tough word. It implies a disconnect between the container and the contained, but it might not be the case. I also like to use the concept of leaves on a tree, or, life forms are like leaves on a tree collecting energy through a photobiologocal process and transferring it to.. (?).

Thereis another state of being in this medium and these life forms as well. The best correlary may be light itself, but it does not describe the concept very well. Perhaps, in this, the idea is to fuse the light and the leaves into a self sustained process rather than the perception of s separation. I see that this could even apply to the "fall of man" into duality.

For as much as I am enjoying this discourse though, I feel like I am dominating your return to the board.. It might even be going off topic a bit! ( the dreaded OT!). I'd greatly enjoy others participating, as I am sure they have their own discussions. Perhaps others are simply enjoying the discourse, but perhaps it is otherwise.

Thank you deeply for the conversation, and your time. It has put a bit of a new spin on some things, and my appreciation could not be overstated.

-Upsilon, the Gardener

a reply to: Direne

One further point Direne with regards to your countdown and with regards to my asking if you had factored in the Moon;

The countdown has two roles. One, it informs us of the time left for us to correct local time for us to keep pace with the leap second, the one-second adjustment that is applied to Coordinated Universal Time in order to keep its time of day close to the mean solar time, an adjustment required to be at pace with the atomic time. We spread this correction adding some millisecons each day, till we reach the date (August the 5th) in which atomic time is again
recovered.

Two, it allows us to correctly align our systems to the local time where we happen to be. As time is quantized, it is important to get it right if you wish to correctly describe events. Controlling Time is one of the more important tasks any civilization gets involved in.

I just felt that if one wishes to see timelines converged then the Sumerian festival Ne Izi Gar provides the best opportunity, as a festival in which all ghosts are summoned forth from the Underworld and thus their timeline meets with the present, but that's a festival celebrated on a full moon between July-August, August 6th in 2013 but this year August 14th

The actual festival of ghosts occurred in the middle of this month during the first day of the full moon. It is at this time that spirits of the dead followed a special passage of light leading from the darkness of the netherworld back into the world of the living for a brief stay. The setting of fires and lighting of torches by each household would guide the spirits back to the ancestral home, where a ceremonial meal, called the be-IZI-gar offering, awaited.

A few days before the full moon of this month at around the eleventh day, it is customary to give offering to the gods associated with the underworld. This is to help the friendly dead find their way home, or to thank the dead for releasing the spirits from their duties in the underworld.

Nippur calendar

In theory using this method one could converge our entire history into a single moment...but maybe that's just me.

originally posted by: Direne

...information creates Time. It exists prior to Time itself. Actually, Time is just a carrier.

Maybe consciousness is just a ripple of information. Consciousness is a state of information, much like matter, and energy. Ways in which information shapes itself in order to exist. Perhaps life forms are just containers of consciousness? Or perhaps life forms are just an excuse for Time to exist?

I suppose it would be accurate to say that "information creates time"

Information could be defined as 'stuff that happens' - 'stuff happens' in a particular order at a particular rate - Time is the order and rate at which 'stuff happens'.

(Of course the word 'time' as people use it on a day to day basis is simply the 'measurement' of the rate at which 'stuff happens')

And though I agree that "life forms are containers of consciousness", I don't agree that "Consciousness is a state of information"...

Consciousness creates, observes, and assimilates information. Consciousness is a state of 'thought', and thought is the container of information -

- Consciousness cannot be a "state of information", because information can exist without the existence of consciousness...

For example:
If the cosmos was made up of only the 'nuts and bolts' of reality (so to speak) with nothing conscious (no life forms) in it - there would still be information ('stuff that happens')...stars would still burn, space would still expand, Time would still carry on - there just wouldn't be any consciousness to 'see' the information 'happening'.

So, (excluding the 'time as measurement' context) not only are life forms (therefore consciousness) 'not' merely "an excuse for Time to exist", they aren't even necessary to it's existence...just as they are not necessary to the information which "creates Time".

Of course the above then begs the question: If consciousness is unnecessary to the existence of information, why does consciousness exist?

Could the constituents of reality (information and time) be constructs of consciousness? Could it be that consciousness or 'a' Consciousness created the information which created Time?

And since life forms are a product of information and Time, could it be that 'a Consciousness' created life forms to be 'containers' in which It could immerse Itself in order to experience the information It had 'constructed' from the inside out?

a reply to: Kantzveldt

I always found the Sumerian belief system extremely complex, to be honest. A given culture can be better understood by understanding the relation they establish with both the Sun and the Moon. This relation, for Sumerians, were always odd to me. I guess living under a sky with, say, three moons, or two suns, produce belief systems that become really interesting. It is key to investigate how a given culture considers itself in relation
with its moon. A civilisation that talks about "conquering the moon", and whose calendar allows oddities such as July, 2015, with two full moons (July, 1st, and July, 31st) makes me feel they have completed a total divide between their souls and their skies. A dangerous path to walk, in my opinion.

I always found Sumerians nostalgic of their home world, which according to their psalms and chants and festivals, does not seem to refer to this one. As if they were a seeding civilisation, adapting to the local environment which is not totally felt by them as theirs. Actually, it is interesting to do the exercise to reconstruct Sumerian skies that best match their belief system, and you'll come to the conclusion that a sky with two moons matches their axiology in much a better way...

a reply to: lostgirl

Your statement that Consciousness cannot be a "state of information", because information can exist without the existence of consciousness needs be read with caution. I see your point, but I think you refer to "data", rather than "information". Data can exist without anyone processing that data. You get information when you process data, when you interpret data, and when you react according to the result of that processing. You gather data, to create
information. And you make decisions based on that information. This means obviously that there could exist a Universe consisting of data. But if you want to create information out of that data, you need life forms to process data. As a crude example, I would think of signals (waves) and a TV set. There can be waves, and no TV set to turn those waves into images (information).

However, lostgirl, could there be dreams without a dreamer? Quantum Mechanics paradigm states that reality does not exist, until you measure it. This has fascinating implications: there is no disease, unless you believe there is. There is no UFOs, until the very moment you believe in them. Actually, there is no objective reality, unless there are observers. Problem comes when two independent observers do not agree on what they observe. That's when Reality turns really complex. A very sad situation happens when one observes something that no other observer experiences. That's the abductee anxiety. That's too the UFO believer trap: he/she needs other "witnesses" for his/her sighting be real. This have a perverse implication: let's have all observers to observe one and the same thing, and they will "believe", even when what they perceive is clearly unreal. NSA and propaganda makers know a lot about this mechanism. So do builders of realities. And hologram makers.

You pose two interesting questions:

If consciousness is unnecessary to the existence of information, why does consciousness exist?
Could the constituents of reality (information and time) be constructs of consciousness?

My view is that consciousness is a state of information, highly ordered, in order for Reality to exist. I will even go further by stating that dreams do need a dreamer, desperately. Or, if you feel religious, I would say that God needs believers, desperately, up to the point of create a Universe with believers. So, I would answer like this:

consciousness is certainly unnecessary to the existence of data, but it is essential to the existence of information. The constituents of reality (information and time) are clearly constructs of that particular consciousness. Not that you invent reality, actually, reality invents you.

a reply to: Direne

We can look at that, of course they had two lunar Deities, Nanna and his consort Ningal, Nanna differentiated between bulls and cows;

The cows are driven together in herds for him. His various types of cow number 39600. [His young cows and calves] His fattened cows] number 108000. His young bulls number 126000. The sparkling-eyed cows number 50400. The white cows number 126000. The cows for the evening meal are in four groups of five each. Such are the various types of cow of Father Nanna.

His wild cows number 180000. The …… cows are four. Their herds of cattle are seven. Their …… herdsmen are seven. There are four of those who dwell among the cows

The Herds of Nanna

The numerology of the seven herdsmen lends itself to 1 x 2 x 3 x 4 x 5 x 6 x 7=5,040, a simple formulation over seven stages that can also relate to the lunar week or indeed entire creation.

...x12 (Hours).......x 60 (Minutes)

7 Days.............84....................5,040

7 Nights..........84....................5,040

.................=168..................=10,080


We can also recognize this in terms of the diameter of the Earth and Moon combined 2160+7920=10,080 in terms of units of miles, so 3960 would be the radius of Earth consisting of various types of cows, there are 220 units of 36" in a furlong of 7,920" also, so it can be established then that the cows are of the Earth...as one might expect.

They also concern themselves with 126 and 252, were 252"=7 yards and 2520 miles=Mean Earth/Moon radius, 5040 being the mean diameter, the bulls are concerning themselves with the mean, 18 and 36 is the wild cow factor.

Nisaba has taken their grand total; Nisaba has taken their count, and she is writing it on clay.

So Praise be to Nisaba... and one must conclude that she taught well and also that the cultic numerology of Nanna relates only to the relationship of the Earth and the Moon, distance and time.

originally posted by: Direne
The countdown has two roles. One, it informs us of the time left for us to correct local time for us to keep pace with the leap second, the one-second adjustment that is applied to Coordinated Universal Time in order to keep its time of day close to the mean solar time, an adjustment required to be at pace with the atomic time. We spread this correction adding some millisecons each day, till we reach the date (August the 5th) in which atomic time is again
recovered. Two, it allows us to correctly align our systems to the local time where we happen to be. As time is quantized, it is important to get it right if you wish to correctly describe events. Controlling Time is one of the more important tasks any civilization gets involved in.

Any civilization is always worried with Time. The easiest way is to use your local star as a reference. All past civilizations on Earth did that, which means they were acting and reacting to events with an 8 minutes and 20 seconds delay. That's the time it takes for the Sun to communicate with you. This is key: we are all photobiological beings, so any delay means we are all photobiologically-delayed beings. This has profound implications.

I understand the why, but again I ask for what purpose?...why does Forgotten Language need such an accurate clock? What event are you hoping to record or predict?

Once I spoke the language of the flowers,
Once I understood each word the caterpillar said,
Once I smiled in secret at the gossip of the starlings,
And shared a conversation with the housefly in my bed.
Once I heard and answered all the questions
of the crickets,
And joined the crying of each falling dying
flake of snow,
Once I spoke the language of the flowers. . . .
How did it go?
How did it go?