One Soul, Many Bodies: The Case for Reincarnation

reply to post by Akragon


Of course you would say that because you are blind to it's true meaning. I'm not scared to talk about the born again topic, but we have been through it before. Your stuck in your own thought. I guess I'm stuck in mine as well.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
reply to post by Akragon

 

Of course you would say that because you are blind to it's true meaning. I'm not scared to talk about the born again topic, but we have been through it before. Your stuck in your own thought. I guess I'm stuck in mine as well.

Funny I was just thinking the same thing about you.... but no need for insults...

Perhaps you could tell me how one returns to the womb?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


First off, my interpretation of what? I don't recall posting my views on the "born again' topic in this thread. Or did I miss something. And where in this thread did I say I was raised Christian? Maybe I did say it, if so, please remind me where.

You underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit. I won't accuse you of not knowing it's power, maybe you do, but abuse it.

It's not my fault that the only thing you have to back up your theory is your own interpretation of what Jesus meant when He said "you must be born again" .

I bet you would say the following verse also means you must be reincarnated huh.

2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

Luke 10:21
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

Now tell me if those verse are literal or symbolic?

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


Akragon asked IF you weren't exposed to Christianity, what you interpretation of "born again" would be. You answered saying that you couldn't answer because you were exposed to it. That may not mean you were raised a Christian (which I still assume you were, if you can excuse that), but it does mean your interpretation is based on Christianity's teachings, meaning you interpretation is based on what someone else has said.

Here's another version of that same passage:

Matthew 18
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

He says you must "change and become like little children", that's a nod to reincarnation as well. How does an adult change into a child? By being born again literally.

It is literal.

As for Luke 10, I thought you said the HS didn't hide knowledge? Jesus says otherwise apparently.

It is literal as well.

If I were a bird, and you were a fish

What would we do? well I guess we'd wish for reincarnation.- Roger Miller

I envision us as more of a math problem, or perhaps solution

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I could easily refute this, but I'll let it go for now. It's clear to me that you are blind to the overall message of Christ teachings. Things which are symbolic you want to be literal, and the things that literal you will say is symbolic. May the Holy Spirit remove the scales from your eyes one day. God Bless.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


Refute away.

That's what debate and discussion is all about, stating your case. If it's easily refutable then it shouldn't take that long should it?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Born again is a pretty straight forward nod toward reincarnation, and was only kept in the bible to induce a type of reverse psychology on followers in my opinion, if that makes sense.

This is partly what I was trying to show on my “Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven” thread. When you use a concordance on those key words, especially the word “Again”, you find that it means the following…


”AGAIN”
G509
anōthen

Which means…
1) from above, from a higher place
a) of things which come from heaven or God
2) from the first, from the beginning, from the very first
3) anew, over again


Which is from this word:
G507
anō
Which means…
1) up, upwards, above, on high
2) of the quarters of the heaven, northward
3) of countries, inland, up from the coast
4) of time, formerly


Which I mentioned in this post

Which means, being “Born Again”, is to be born from the TOP, or from the ABOVE/God...or from the BEGINNING...in order to see/enter the Kingdom of God. So its really about being reborn spiritually IMO and not about being reborn physically i.e. reincarnation

Think about this. From what we discussing on my other “Seek ye first” thread, Earth is part of the Kingdom of God, right?…So technically, everyone is already in the kingdom, in a sense…they just don’t know it yet. If you become reincarnated, then you’re back in a part of the Kingdom again, but you’ve now lost all memory, of where you came from before…your essentially back to square one, and know nothing etc…

Remember, Jesus says, “that know man can see/know the kingdom of Heaven/God” unless he becomes “born again”…so it has to be something which you come know, in this life time!

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
He says you must "change and become like little children", that's a nod to reincarnation as well. How does an adult change into a child? By being born again literally.

When you connect with Gods Spirit, (become born Again) you become a child in a literal and spiritual sense. In other words, you find the Father and no longer walk in darkness, and essentially become a child of God, because you have received Gods Spirit, and become spiritually aware. Which leads to a spiritual change within…a new creation.

Just going of off your own posts, you have become “Born again”, in a way, through the knowledge that you are a spiritual being, and knowing that you are more than just your flesh etc…But being “born again” is something which is also meant to be experienced, when you become reborn spiritually, by receiving the Holy Spirit.

Btw - I don’t completely disagree with you, and should probably throw this next part in lol…

I believe that the Gnostic Christians were right, in that there is both a reincarnation (where a Spirit will go through constant death and rebirth) and a spiritual resurrection, where you become united with God in Spirit.


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


I agree it has a double meaning and I think Jesus meant it in more than one way. To be "born again" does mean to become spiritually aware in more than one way, and it also means to be reincarnated.

When we are reincarnated, we become like little children again and become spiritually aware once more. You cannot experience death, only life, meaning the time in-between incarnations you are not spiritually aware, only once you are born do you become aware again.

The world and society around us separates us from this awareness over time through cultural, societal, and religious conditioning. We are all spiritually aware at birth in my opinion, meaning we are all born with the Holy Spirit, only with time do we lose it because of certain conditions, but we can attain that awareness again in this lifetime.

When Jesus said you must be born again to reach the kingdom, he meant it in two ways. The first is that Earth is no longer a part of the kingdom because of all the war, famine, lies, etc., so in order to reach heaven, you must become like a child again and be reincarnated onto another planet that is still "Eden". He also meant it in the way that you are saying as well, and what you are saying IS becoming One with God again.

He meant it both spiritually and physically in my opinion, but I don't think Christians truly understand its meaning.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I agree it has a double meaning and I think Jesus meant it in more than one way. To be "born again" does mean to become spiritually aware in more than one way, and it also means to be reincarnated.

Hmmm…I wasn’t aware you saw it both ways…interesting…so why do you believe it means reincarnation as well as…?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
When we are reincarnated, we become like little children again and become spiritually aware once more. You cannot experience death, only life, meaning the time in-between incarnations you are not spiritually aware, only once you are born do you become aware again.

Well, the Gnostics believed in reincarnation, but they believed that if one achieved a spiritual resurrection, in this life through uniting with God spiritually, then that person would no longer have to go through the constant death and re-birth here on Earth. Which I personally see as a moving up into a higher level of Gods Kingdom, most likely a non-fallen world, that is similar to Earth.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The world and society around us separates us from this awareness over time through cultural, societal, and religious conditioning. We are all spiritually aware at birth in my opinion, meaning we are all born with the Holy Spirit, only with time do we lose it because of certain conditions, but we can attain that awareness again in this lifetime.

When Jesus said you must be born again to reach the kingdom, he meant it in two ways. The first is that Earth is no longer a part of the kingdom because of all the war, famine, lies, etc., so in order to reach heaven, you must become like a child again and be reincarnated onto another planet that is still "Eden".

Yes, but in order to achieve, or be aloud to enter into this, “being re-born on another planet” and reach Heaven (non-Fallen world)…I believe one must become “born again” spiritually first…perhaps you see it that way too…?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
He also meant it in the way that you are saying as well, and what you are saying IS becoming One with God again.

Thanks.

But what do mean by “IS becoming One with God again”…?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
He meant it both spiritually and physically in my opinion, but I don't think Christians truly understand its meaning.

Yes, I’m very much against any form of indoctrination. Everyone must seek the truth from God, on their own.

Truth is understanding, and faith is a double edged sword IMO…

I see a huge parallel between Christianity and what Jesus states in the following verse…

Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

My personal belief is that Jesus was trying to get people to move away from religion, and bring them into a relationship with God, by allowing the Spirit of God to be the one True teacher, through the Spirit. And All knowledge and understanding, comes by flowing in the Spirit of the Lord.


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

Hmmm…I wasn’t aware you saw it both ways…interesting…so why do you believe it means reincarnation as well as…?

Because born again is a reference to reincarnation, and I believe Jesus meant reincarnation first and foremost when he said that. He could have chosen a better phrase than "born again" to describe spiritual rebirth, and I think he chose that phrase for a reason.

Well, the Gnostics believed in reincarnation, but they believed that if one achieved a spiritual resurrection, in this life through uniting with God spiritually, then that person would no longer have to go through the constant death and re-birth here on Earth. Which I personally see as a moving up into a higher level of Gods Kingdom, most likely a non-fallen world, that is similar to Earth.

I'm not sure I believe that, but it could be possible. Maybe they meant forgetting when they said that? As in being born and re-born means forgetting?

I think those who are spiritually aware as Jesus was are One with God already, which is why Jesus said he and his Father were One. The spirit could be that incorruptible place and higher level that you're talking about.

Yes, but in order to achieve, or be aloud to enter into this, “being re-born on another planet” and reach Heaven (non-Fallen world)…I believe one must become “born again” spiritually first…perhaps you see it that way too…?

In a way I guess.

I think everyone reincarnates, but only a few can remember it. Those who are spiritually aware are the ones who remember where they came from, so they are the only ones who "get" (remember) to reincarnate.

Thanks.

But what do mean by “IS becoming One with God again”…?

As in knowing God is within you and always has been, hence being One with God.

Yes, I’m very much against any form of indoctrination. Everyone must seek the truth from God, on their own.

Truth is understanding, and faith is a double edged sword IMO…

I see a huge parallel between Christianity and what Jesus states in the following verse…

Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

My personal belief is that Jesus was trying to get people to move away from religion, and bring them into a relationship with God, by allowing the Spirit of God to be the one True teacher, through the Spirit. And All knowledge and understanding, comes by flowing in the Spirit of the Lord.

I agree.

Originally posted by azza5540

Originally posted by Binkus
reply to post by soulpowertothendegree

 

I really like the reincarnation debate

My own personal experiences are from my parents who said when i was very young about 3 years old, after driving past a hospital, i claimed to have died there after a motorcycle accident

I was very young and the injuries i sustained were round about the birthmarks i had, birthmarks disappeared as i got older

My name was John, and i was travelling with my Girlfriend

this always fascinated me, and it freaked my parents out. I was a pretty imaginative child so i kept one foot in both camps about reincarnation

I recently saw a program where it claims we are every person is every life to have ever to have existed as the meaning of time is really just a human concept, which means i am you and you are me under different circumstances. interesting stuff

reincarnation and jumping energy/soul is really nice concept

Wierd, My Second youngest child when 2 "He could speak very clearly at that that age" who was born some 20 years after his grandfather died, told us that he used to float above us before he chose us and he was friends with another named Barry ( His Grandfathers Name), When we moved into Barries old place of residence he would always say Barry is here with us, one day the wife got a photo out of her dad Barry and showed him, he said thats Barry he watches over you all the time. Sadly Barry died from Cancer of the Kidneys, even sader is our son has been diagnosed with PKD, Polysistic Kidney Disease, which is usually passed on because of genetics, nnone of it on either side of our families

edit on 11-7-2013 by azza5540 because: stuffed up

Thanks for the account, there is some reassurance in this that we can look over our loved ones and family when we pass

however incredibly sorry for the diagnosis of PKD wishing you all the best and a load of luck