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America's dawn

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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 02:13 PM
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Great post.
It may have started already. How would you know?
They control the news.

They will just make it sound like some thing else.
So they Bomb them with a Big bomb.
Then tell you a Oil Train blows up!

Did you see this in the news?
No evidence left. How would you know???




posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


Well ofcourse there is a false dichotomy there. If you believe youre being victimized by someone, youll naturally want to get up and do something about it. Reality is, no body is victimizing you, but yourself. You are the enemy and you are the hero all rolled into one.

Revolutions and counter revolutions arent necessary, unless you want to live in the lie...



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by Serdgiam
 


Well ofcourse there is a false dichotomy there. If you believe youre being victimized by someone, youll naturally want to get up and do something about it. Reality is, no body is victimizing you, but yourself. You are the enemy and you are the hero all rolled into one.

Revolutions and counter revolutions arent necessary, unless you want to live in the lie...


Correct, so instead of continue to just talk, what change are we prepared to make ourselves?

I actually see the exact opposite of what you propose, that the victimization felt results in little more than talk about violent revolution. No one actually does anything (which in the case of a violent revolution, is a good thing).

Building systems to control or building systems to enable has nothing to do with being a "victim," but everything to do with how we design our inventions, regulations, and even our lifestyles.

Perhaps you were echoing my sentiments, or perhaps you have no idea what I am talking about.
Regardless, it seems that more of the road needs to be built before anyone is actually interested in even visiting the concept.



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by ThreeBears


Uh, Hate to break it to ya but the attacks on pamphlet printing and zines began Years ago. Feds harassed, put publishers of press (zines, etc) on terrorist lists or spy files, busted down Several printing shops, harassed and even jailed several zine and Book publishers, harassed small grass roots independent media outlets, etc. in Several key cities, sent moles to spy and break up printing Groups or have them harassed on other petty things, such as a Bike Shop, in one area I know of. Several small printing presses were forced out, arrests when the zines were handed out, etc., forced out by buy outs to silence radical voices (radical in that they were of no party affiliation and were strictly For the people or issue they represented) and then year or two later the original paper or zines were not even recognize able. I know of Several independent homeless/poor people's activism and printing, or anti war efforts that were shut down this way. One homeless paper was an independent collective of poets, artists, writers who had a press/shop donated (time share type thing) so they could get their story out and heard etc as well as raise money to assist in job training, etc., it was hijacked, harassed and taken over to Silence Political Dissent. That's just one example,

Several independent media folks were harassed, jailed, censored. This has been going on for quite some time...maybe no one pays much attention because these were grass roots groups, with little power. If any...but what Truths they had to say we're deemed a "threat" ...so much for freedom of the press. Which really is Ironic in that Now that these programs are more widespread and targeting the Mainstream NOW people are upset,

But hey, they were doing this YEARS ago, spying, false arrests, even some "mysterious" murders here and there. Beleive me when I say, what you see now is simply an Escalation of policies of authoritarianism theyve been practicing on the marginalized for Years and they've mastered the craft quite well.

They Know how the Populus will react, and how, how to pacify, how to divide, and how to rid of. they didnt call it Friendly Fascism for nothing...


Yea that was my point. The real war against free speech ect isn't going on with the big media outlets like it is down in the trenches. We had a local case where a lady had some flyers made up, passed them out in large scale. Local "authorities" took her to court but the judge ruled that she has a constitutional right......however the important thing here is that we have people in positions, low and high, that have to be taken to court to learn that certain actions are constitutional.
edit on 14-7-2013 by Logarock because: n



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by EternalSolace
reply to post by Logarock
 



reply to post by Helious
 



With respect, don't take my post out of context.



I was basically agreeing with you and just expanding the list of excuses for not getting involved.



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 



first off, I am impressed by your concise summary of a complex subject, and agree with you in all you said, from the similarities of Patriot act to Nazi Germany´s pre war policies and its probable date of conceptualization long before 9/11, to the every detail you listed of our governments criminality.

That said, I must say that I think we all know this on some level. The more you interact with the government, the less noble they seem to you and the more obvious their flaws are. I see a nation led by small men. I look almost everywhere though and see the same.

Small and insignificant men in positions of power for which they are grossly undeserving.

When greed and pòwer are all you can have in your mind as far as "security and prosperity", you become a sort of grimy little gremlin inside. A trollish and vile thing.

When you mask your flaws for the sake of keeping a charade going that you know to be an empty lie, you seem like a sort of child man full of insecurity and ignorance of life.

That sadly is the caliber of men leading our species.

It is not that they dont know greatness, its just that it seems like an imposing mountain to them and they know that they are not even a pebble from it. Their pile is smaller and of a smellier nature.

IF you have ever lived in the shadow of someone, you know how terrible and unattractive it is take on their legacy. "Be a prince in hell or a servant in heaven" sort of dilemma. They know they will never be the titans of old.

They know that as much as they can own, influence and yield, that they will always come short to a true person.

The power of a just and morally strong person is uncountable. There literally is no enemy that person will fear or pain that will reach his core. He is a Titan. Chest full of heart, mind full of the universe´s secrets and wonders, and soul as brilliant as a multitude of blazing suns.

Heroes of old, kings of true kingship, Gods amongst mortal monkey men.....that is who they know they will never be. So they childishly revert to acting and thinking like monkey men. As if those things were somehow inferior to scared half primates looking for shiny things to oogle and show off, and fighting over the banana stash.

There are great men still. They defend us, work for us doing thankless jobs, and sacrifice more then any of us will know....they are just outnumbered and kept too busy change their ground.

But dont worry. This has happened before and it will happen again until we learn to move past our flaws and embrace something...MORE. Until then these fools will be responsible for our fall over and over again from the grace our titans give us.

Eventually it all ends one way or another. Titans dont die though....they sleep, and every slumber has an awakening.

Be well bud. Thanks for this and remember to hold it down.


edit on 14-7-2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:21 PM
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So let me get this straight. You're suggesting that some noble officer launches a coup?



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by AngryCymraeg
 


Is that directed to the OP or me?

I´ll answer anyways though.

I think the OP (and I´ll include myself) are simply saying.....out last them. Become more then them. Stay true.

That sort of thing. That is much more difficult and is also much more purpose oriented and useful then trying to use a bigger stick then them.

That sort of mind is exactly what got us in this situation. Violence is the animals way out.


edit on 14-7-2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 



Building systems to control or building systems to enable has nothing to do with being a "victim," but everything to do with how we design our inventions, regulations, and even our lifestyles.


I love the idea, but who controls the patent office that controls inventions? Who issues licenses for pre-approved building systems? Who writes regulations on business and lifestyles?

That would not be us and as long as we remain in that matrix it will never be us.



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by Serdgiam
 



Building systems to control or building systems to enable has nothing to do with being a "victim," but everything to do with how we design our inventions, regulations, and even our lifestyles.


I love the idea, but who controls the patent office that controls inventions? Who issues licenses for pre-approved building systems? Who writes regulations on business and lifestyles?

That would not be us and as long as we remain in that matrix it will never be us.


I would agree that the patent office is a very effective way to control the flow of ideas and inventions, as well as a good source for current industry titans to retain market domination.

However, I am not so quick to give up my power. We have open source, and if the Arduino board is any indication, it is a new way to actually approach the economy, manufacturing, and ideas. They offer a manufactured product, but at the same time educate their market on *exactly* how it operates and is built. They want people to hack their product and improve on it, and the advancements that have been made are truly mind-blowing for such a short time. They have little need to go through typical avenues to make a living off of their product.

I also have many inventions, ideas, and even books that I will be releasing in the same way. This type of economy focuses less on the value of the product itself, and more on the knowledge and understanding that motivated and formed the product. It also allows for significantly greater degrees of growth and advancement of said product. When it has such a diverse distribution (anyone with a connection to the internet), we can grow an entirely new economy outside of the auspices of the current systems. And yet, it also abides by them at the same time. This type of "free" exchange is the basis behind science itself, however, it (the industry of science) has also succumbed to the modus operandi of market domination for more extensive personal profit. At least once it hits the application design phase.

Going too far into this goes off topic, and I do not wish for that. However, there are threads out there which are open source discussions on how exactly to approach some of the core issues that create the societal interactions that so many of us complain about.
edit on 14-7-2013 by Serdgiam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 



We have open source, and if the Arduino board is any indication, it is a new way to actually approach the economy, manufacturing, and ideas. They offer a manufactured product, but at the same time educate their market on *exactly* how it operates and is built. They want people to hack their product and improve on it, and the advancements that have been made are truly mind-blowing for such a short time. They have little need to go through typical avenues to make a living off of their product.


Wow, I had to look Arduino up. That's what's so good about this place, always learning about stuff I'd never heard of before.



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


Ugh, dupe.
edit on 14-7-2013 by frazzle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 02:27 PM
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Many countries have - at some point in history or the other - taken serious wrong turns due to bad politicians being in charge of the country at that point.

Consider the case of Nazi Germany for example. It doesn't get much WRONGER than that.

A lot of countries that have gone "in the toilet" manage to recover and improve once better politicians are in charge.

Modern Germany, again, is a good example.

Modern Germany has nothing in common with old Nazi Germany anymore.

It is a prosperous, tolerant, democratic country where people live well.

The same could be true for America - America may be headed "into the toilet" at this point in history.

But the America of the 2020s could be "back on track" to be a good, free, ethical and prosperous nation again.

My 2 Cents...



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by Lada2000
But the America of the 2020s could be "back on track" to be a good, free, ethical and prosperous nation again.

My 2 Cents...


Haha.. are you joking? Unless there are seriouse "changes" made- as in you know what.. this country is going to go completely down the #ter (as are most other "developed" countries).. that's the plan, make everybody completely desperate, and have a few elite living in a few of the global cities living high-off-the-hog.. while the rest of us watch TV shows about their lives.. or TV shows about how it's great to be rich.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


Oh I know what youre talking about but the problem isnt how people just behave on their own little lives, its how they behave as a group.

Thats why i dont see the point in talking about making changes on the personal level, when those changes mean absolutely nothing if you take said person and plop them in the midst of a group.

The pressure to follow the heard is very strong, especially when youre actually physically in that heard.

I mean if people would reject suggestion, influence, and charisma of those who lead us, and instead make their own educated opinions rather than copy pasting someone elses opinion en massem cause it feels right, I think we may get somewhere.

If they cant, they will be the target of people who want to control them because 1. The stupid need to be controlled, 2. They just make it too easy not to.

But Id like to bring you back to the subject at hand which is the breaking down of society as we know it in the US. Now every 'empire' has an up and a down. Maybe its just inevitable that it breaks down into something resembling the previous empires like England and Russia? At that point, your best bet will be not reversing the inevitable, but salvaging whatever you can.



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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Before I make my point I would like to acknowledge the OP's very well written and concise summary of what we are facing in America.

As I've read through this thread with a heavy heart a few things occurred to me, and it scares me a lot. How was Nazi Germany ultimately defeated, it took other countries bringing them down. God I know what I'm saying sounds so awful, I Love America and grew up believing one of the things that made our country so wonderful was our diversity and foundation of freedom and opportunity for all.

Probably one of the biggest patriots of recent times, IMHO, Snowden has had to flee everything he is trying to protect, how ironic. and if somehow he reads ATS and sees this post I would personally like to tell him what he did was beyond selfless and as an "awake" American I understand why you never had a chance to use the "proper" channels here at home...


War is not the answer we should seek, call me an optimist but information is powerful....why was the story of Paul Revere so powerful ( lol, even it it was a "tale" ) because he risked his own safety to warn others. When we talk about WHAT can we do, I say flood every type of media that reaches the average public with truth, or at least facts....as "truth" is subjective I suppose...IDK...



posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by nusnus
 


You still arent getting the point that my posts are also directly appealing to the "controllers," and I am saying they arent doing it as well as they could even for their own benefit. I havent gone into much depth on it, but I have written threads about it.

Regardless, it seems you have already made your decision, so I do not expect you to change your mind. I have not given up, and I probably wont until my last dying breath. Just kind of who I am!

IMO, its best to plan for the best but prepare for the worst. If we just prepare for the worst, then that is the only thing we will ever get. However, if we make plans that can work before, during, or after an economic-based collapse, then I think we can either avoid such a thing entirely or, at worst, be able to build a new system from the rubble of the old.

The best scenario is obviously working it out before, which is what I am giving my all to do. Will people respond much? Absolutely not! Threads that focus on the complaints are imminently more popular than the ones that focus on solutions. But, all of these things happen so very slowly, even over generations. Planting and sowing the seeds now may lead to a nice harvest down the road, or it may be taken out by metaphorical "hail." Either way, nothing will happen if we just give up and dont try to plant the seeds in the first place. Then, if the harvest is great, you will have many more people jump on the bandwagon since they dont have to do anything at that point.

Thanks for your perspective! Even though we are taking different approaches, we both contribute directly to the world as it is.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


No I see it, I see it believe me. Your input has been registered and will not go in vain.

And I agree fully on the wholehearted attempt to sow seeds into the midst of chaos. Just by being here and trying to have a civil conversation about it is a seed sown. Now Im no controller, I just listen. And when you sit and listen you hear the voices that want change, drown out the voices that want stability. They want it so much, the thought has taken shape and formed a kind of forest fire, threatening to engulf and destroy all that has been made before hand. There is a lot of love, and a lot of hope invested in this fire. Its sort of like a cleansing, a cutting of an infested wound so it may bleed further, then heal.

I just dont want to be among the good cells that gets cleaned out in the process.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


Awesome post. Though I feel there are a few things to clear up. First of all, a Republic is never synonymous or compatible with a Democracy. Somehow these terms are used interchangeably in our nation. A Republic is a form of Aristocratic rulership. A Democracy is direct governance by the people, of the people, and for the people. What we had, up until the beginning of the 20th century, is a Representative Republic. What we have now is some messy combination of a Plutocracy and State Socialism.

Democracy, in its modern unfolding, is nothing more than a guise to manufacture consent for the status-quo. Democracy, in its legitimate meaning, is a revolutionary force that calls for the continuous destruction of the status-quo, in order to adapt to the demands of the times. Further, Democracy cannot be a governmental system or body. Rather, it is the process of revolutionary change. Every action of Democracy in our nation has been dealt from the hands of the oppressed and disenfranchised who organized uprisings against the status-quo of the times.

In conclusion, the very idea of supporting and upholding a governmental body or instrument, particularly as an agent of change, is counter-intuitive to freedom. Government is a managerial function, meaning it is intent on maintaining the status-quo. Leaders and managers, as anyone in business knows, are two very distinctly different things. A leader promotes change for adaptation, while a manager maintains the functioning of the system or organization. As you've so astutely stated, we need leaders not managers.



posted on Jul, 16 2013 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by openlocks
 



Government is a managerial function, meaning it is intent on maintaining the status-quo. Leaders and managers, as anyone in business knows, are two very distinctly different things. A leader promotes change for adaptation, while a manager maintains the functioning of the system or organization. As you've so astutely stated, we need leaders not managers.


Which puts me in mind of Dr. Ron Paul. When a potential leader arrives on the scene it is the manager's function to make sure that individual is summarily demoted to janitorial duty. Or in his case, forced retirement.

Do you have a solution for that dilemma since it has become clear that elections are nothing more than a management style with a few bells and whistles attached. So how does one make that understood to people who insist elections are our only tool for change simply because that's how it was set up in the company policy manual (constitution)? The very people being harmed by the rules say there must be NO changes in that manual.

I'm stumped.




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