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America's dawn

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posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 09:11 PM
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While I feel many people do desire a change for the better, not so many present any sort of solutions. Or, when they are presented, they are shot down since so many thrive on destroying others ideas without building their own.

I made up a series of threads that are meant to open a discourse on how exactly we can change things for the better, for everyone, but very few have participated at this point. Those that have though, have not only humbled me, but forced me to rethink a lot of things. And that is what it is all about; learning and growing together as a team.

I am beginning to think that while many speak of wanting change, and waiting for someone to lead, that they are more interested in making excuses than anything else.

That said, change over a large scale happens in small steps. Small grassroots-type movements that start actively demonstrating how a different approach to the same system can yield better results across the board. I believe that is where our hope lies.




posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by Helious
 


I certainly agree that it is intensely confusing, a real who's on first kind of deal and it all started way back in the 1880s. Before that, actually. And shoot, if we can't even get our own history straight, how are we supposed to understand theirs?

Ron Paul had it right when he said we need to stop ALL foreign aid. That's the only thing that makes any sense.



It is confusing! It can be mind boggling but that is the exact reason that we need a federal government, to enact a responsible, sensible and transparent foreign relations program that doesn't involve getting tied up in every single military conflict across the globe at all it's citizens expense.

I know that we need a federal government, I am no anarchist but I also know that, that federal government should be extremely limited in scope, jurisdiction and duty and should exist to ONLY perform the functions that it was instituted to perform.

As it stands, they have made gross and overstepping interpretations of the interstate commerce clause for decades and have been effective in increasing federal power well beyond it's intended scope and it has come into conflict many times in issues of states rights and separation of powers.

The core problem with the government we face is largely on a federal level. The citizens ability to approach local government and address grievances is necessary and change should be accessible on a local level if needed and agreed upon, county and state wide. The federal government has overstepped it's bounds, it has transformed America into something that is fast becoming something that resembles a monarchy where the executive branch is acting and treated like royalty.

We have lost accountability on the federal level while in most forms it remains on the state level. This is a huge problem because the federal government refuses to prosecute itself and no one else can do it.
edit on 11-7-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 09:35 PM
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Wasaka:

Thank you for your insight, I'll definitely be picking up a copy of "None Dare Call It Conspiracy."

Dukesy:

I think you're right, Obama and the rest before him are puppets, pawns behind the greed, evil, and corruption of big corporations. The corporate CEOs, if indeed they are the ones controlling lawmaking with their "too big to fail" mentality, SHOULD be the ones targeted. But what then? There's just another bloodthirsty leech just below them ready to take the reigns. And another. And another.

The more I think about it, the more I WANT to do something about it. It is our responsibility to do something about it.

As above posts stated, this can all get confusing. There appears to be layers upon layers to this big picture, much like an onion. If those in power are so greedy, so corrupt, who's to say those who replace them are not? Or won't become so? To win a revolution like this would require eliminating greed from the human persona in order to maintain the standard our forefathers created. Good people exist, but they're seemingly more and more few and far between.

IF it really happens, IF we FINALLY get to our breaking point before it's too late, hoping it's not too late already, which I don't think it is, what will happen?? It must happen before our right to bare is abolished.

Will our own military fight against us? Will they stand up for the citizens who want their country back? Will they fight their brothers and sisters for the government?



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by Helious
 


I certainly agree that it is intensely confusing, a real who's on first kind of deal and it all started way back in the 1880s. Before that, actually. And shoot, if we can't even get our own history straight, how are we supposed to understand theirs?

Ron Paul had it right when he said we need to stop ALL foreign aid. That's the only thing that makes any sense.



It is confusing! It can be mind boggling but that is the exact reason that we need a federal government, to enact a responsible, sensible and transparent foreign relations program that doesn't involve getting tied up in every single military conflict across the globe at all it's citizens expense.

I know that we need a federal government, I am no anarchist but I also know that, that federal government should be extremely limited in scope, jurisdiction and duty to should exist to ONLY perform the functions that it was instituted to perform.

As it stands, they have made gross and overstepping interpretations of the interstate commerce clause for decades and have been effective in increasing federal power well beyond it's intended scope and it has come into conflict many times in issues of states rights and separation of powers.

The core problem with the government we face is largely on a federal level. The citizens ability to approach local government and address grievances is necessary and change should be accessible on a local level if needed and agreed upon, county and state wide. The federal government has overstepped it's bounds, it has transformed America into something that is fast becoming something that resembles a monarchy where the executive branch is acting and treated like royalty.

We have lost accountability on the federal level while in most forms it remains on the state level. This is a huge problem because the federal government refuses to prosecute itself and no one else can do it.


Yep, the biggest challenge is on a federal level and the constitution gives us no remedy to deal with the corruption therein other than the ballot box which is itself corrupted. And here we go round the mulberry bush.

But even on a state and local level there are thousands of non governmental organizations doing their level best to push UN mandates on counties and cities and remove the power of the legislatures and city councils. You probably already know about that and this isn't the best article on it, but .... www.thedailysheeple.com...

And although it may seem impossible, this is also one of the things that had been/is going on in Egypt. Actually its happening worldwide. But shortly before his "ousting", Morsi had thrown around 30 of these ngo folks in jail for operating in Egypt illegally. I don't know for certain, but that's a powerful bunch to buck and I really think that might have been the straw the broke his presidency. Well, and there was also the fact that he had just rejected an IMF loan and was in talks with Putin about getting a loan from Russia. That couldn't have been popular with other powerful people.

There's just too much going on behind the scenes that the media doesn't whisper and I mean that's on an international level right down to the local dog catcher's pickup truck. How does a guy even come up with a first step to ratchet it back down?



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by whyamIhere
I am getting more hope everyday.

I think America's finest hour is coming.

Look at the group of people trying to steal our Country.

They will never get away with it.

We need just one courageous leader.


With all due respect, I must humbly disagree.

A leader implies followers.

If we are to have any chance, then the time to look for a savior is gone. We must all become examples.

A single leader can be bought, killed, slandered, defamed, blackmailed, removed.

But 100 million?

200 million?




posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:15 PM
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Very good thread, thank you. It's come as a disheartening feeling when you find that those who would understand most have given up a long time before. If people who claim they knew all this before did nothing, well....probably couldn't cause we all know how the conspiracy minded are treated, and there's nothing that can be done now, why even care about anything at all? Stop the "care" about the Trayvon Martin case, Gay Marriage, and abortion issues... Benghazi, what is that? IRS acting against those Tea Baggers is irrelevant!

I'd assume the best advice anymore is watch out for your family and friends and yourself. Prepare to what you see best, If TSHTF does happen you may have a chance. Do the best you can, even if you want to still alert people who may have no idea what is going down.

All of it, is a hard path, Snowden, if the real deal and one believes he did infant alert many to what is happening, is going through a lot. Many people have too much to lose to take that kind of action, but then again not everyone has CIA connections. If they do what percent, minus him, are willing to do anything? I'm off the grid as much as possible(I get a lot of slack for it from family and friends too), I've been more fully off of it but life was really difficult, very depressing as well. More depressingly so, is when you are on that path, as others are probably beyond their choice, but the general public is not, what can change?!
edit on 11-7-2013 by dreamingawake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


I agree with everything you express in the OP, I want to know why we of like mind aren't organizing and formulating plans for our neighborhoods to survive and cooperate/share resourses when TSHTF?

I've stocked up on the normal stuff but could probably get more food.

It sucks the USA is about to implode during the time I'm raising kids, wouldn't mind so much if I were single. They will learn to shoot earlier than I did.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by whyamIhere
I am getting more hope everyday.

I think America's finest hour is coming.

Look at the group of people trying to steal our Country.

They will never get away with it.

We need just one courageous leader.


With all due respect, I must humbly disagree.

A leader implies followers.

If we are to have any chance, then the time to look for a savior is gone. We must all become examples.

A single leader can be bought, killed, slandered, defamed, blackmailed, removed.

But 100 million?

200 million?



Exactly right. What is needed to change course is the recognition by the critical mass that what is happening in this country is criminal and is being perpetrated by federal authority not only against the average citizen but also largely state government.

Egypt swiftly and effectively dealt with the tyranny they perceived was in place in the exact way it should be done, they amassed by the millions and demanded it, they did not need to take up arms, guerrilla or terrorist tactics, they did it in the true spirit of the will of the people.

America is a ways off from that at this point but every day, through awareness, through intelligent discussion and through whistleblowers and those that are willing to risk their own safety to out the criminal elements of our government, we could achieve the numbers needed to effect change in a positive way without plunging the nation into chaos and anarchy.
edit on 11-7-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


countries rise and fall.. i am not sure why you believe the USA would be any different. in the future some person will be saying the same thing about the next great nation/society that is in decline.

don't squander your time lamenting something you cannot stop nor change.

the people currently living in this country do not deserve what the founders of this country fought for. so it is taken away from them.. when they die out and new blood shows up they will fight for what was lost by their ancestors.

rinse repeat.


I think history is a testament to that.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by votan
reply to post by Helious
 


countries rise and fall.. i am not sure why you believe the USA would be any different. in the future some person will be saying the same thing about the next great nation/society that is in decline.

don't squander your time lamenting something you cannot stop nor change.

the people currently living in this country do not deserve what the founders of this country fought for. so it is taken away from them.. when they die out and new blood shows up they will fight for what was lost by their ancestors.

rinse repeat.


I think history is a testament to that.


I think you make a wise post because you are absolutely correct about nations rising and falling and also in your statement that history reflects as much.

Where I would interject an opinion that may be conflicting is that a nation does not have to dissolve completely to evolve. Many countries have been formed, reformed and adjusted as needed when the criminal elements of their government have taken hold.

I don't deny on any level that it is sickening in this day and age that we are forced to relive the history that has been going on for hundreds of years and even more so because we are aware of it. With that said, at this current juncture in human evolution and human nature, it is something that must be done and with that being the case, it should be approached and executed in the most responsible way possible, something that transitions of power have not always been in the past.

If what ever revolution we seek only lasts another 200 years then you and I and, our children and grand children have that much more time to teach our future generations about liberties, freedom and the importance to protect them, actively and if they are in danger of losing them, then as we did once, they must fight to restore the principles upon which they were born and raised, even if it means that they will have to tirelessly teach their children to do it as well.

Until human nature changes in a fundamental shift of compassion in place of greed, this is the cycle we are destined to repeat. I, much like you, wish it were different.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 11:21 PM
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eloquent, articulate and sadly all to very true.. i wish there were something we could do but their master plan to dumb us down and fear of disrupting what little we have put us in a stranglehold.. we missed our chance when the snowden thing jumped off but he went about it the wrong way and by missing that chance we proved to be the cowards we really are and that's exactly what we are.

we're all talk.. where were all the "patriots" when it went down?

..now, the toilet has been flushed and we're just on for the downward spiral.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 11:33 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to write that. It's the truth.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by firemonkey
 


Originally posted by firemonkey
tell me one right I no longer have


Let's just go down the bill of rights - one by one

1st: www.washingtontimes.com...
2nd: Please, this is under constant attack. Do I really need to provide a link?
3rd: Not yet
4th: One word - PRISM
5th: Supreme Court says Silence = Guilt
6th: soitgoesinshreveport.blogspot.com...
7th: lawsquawker.blogspot.com...
8th: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." - When has the government not required excessive bail, imposed excessive fines, nor inflicted cruel or unusual punishments?
9th: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." - HAH, the Government believes that the only rights we have are those they allow us to have...
10th: We fought a civil war over this - and lost it.

Oh, you only wanted me to name one right you no longer have... Sorry, I had 9...but I'm sure they're working on a way to violate the 3rd.

edit on 11-7-2013 by stutteringp0et because: fix formatting



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by stutteringp0et
 


Good post my friend. I could have gone on and on about every right that has either been seriously hamstrung, eroded or been rendered invalid but it's just too easy to do at this point and it's a labor not needed. The violation of our rights has moved from the back rooms of clandestine court houses to FOX news.

The questions is no longer if they are violating our rights because they are now doing it publicly and just claiming it's to keep us safe and for national security purposes, the question is, what are we going to do about it?

That post was a troll post anyway, if it had held any merit, I would have addressed it in much more complete and rigorous fashion. Thanks for caring about our rights, and for your post.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by Helious
 


I like the spirit of your thread Helios. I have been visiting ATS since 2008. I have literally seen thread after thread on this very topic.

It never seems to do any good though. You would think on a site like this cognitive dissonance would not play as large a role as it does with the "sheeple". That does'nt seem to be the case though.

Thread after thread man. Things haven't gotten bad enough for the average person to care I guess. People are gonna wait until they have nothing and then wonder what happened.

S+F anyways for a well written thread.




You said things haven't gotten bad enough for the average person to care. I highly disagree. I think things are much worse then they were when I was growing up in the early to mid 90s. I also think more people care now than ever. I think a more accurate expression would be that things haven't gotten bad enough yet for the vast majority of Americans to take actions that actually require a major sacrifice on their part, such as actually taking the time of their lives to participate in some form of revolution, whatever expression that revolution might take.

I think it is entirely far too easy to classify the average American as a "sheep", a term which I so often see on conspiracy theory sites, and among circles critical of the US government or establishment in general. Teenagers often times don't have the personal power, will, and means to actively work on change (or don't realize they do), and adults are often consumed fully with providing for a family, and even that becomes too much of a burden for many Americans.


I don't think revolution (and I don't mean a violent one really, I mean more or less a conscious collective who have set their minds on changing this country, and TRULY dedicating their waking hours to working towards the goal, something like that) is something that comes about easily.

In most countries where revolution sparks....it is often in poorer countries...where people have nothing left to lose. Take away the LAST few things they have....their LAST efforts at earning a few pennies to feed their families....and watch how quickly a revolution of sorts starts.

In America, even though there is a shrinking middle class.....it is still possible for a majority to earn enough to get some food in their stomachs, some shelter over their heads...and for many of us...even some entertainment like tv and internet.

Until things get bad enough to where close to HALF of the people in this country can't even afford to stay fed all the time...or have shelter all the time.....then I think that will be a turning point. I also think it is quite possible we are heading that way.

On a related note....I have noticed our country becoming more and more of a police state....and I think this is EXACTLY why. I think they realize how bads things are getting, and how easy it could all go from bad to TERRIBLE in a few weeks. That is why I think we have the massive build up of ammo stockpiles....why we have homeland security beefing up all the police forces around the country....why we see whistleblowers being attacked harder then ever before....why our government is seemingly behaving in ways that are over the top, even for THEM.

I hope I am wrong.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by CaticusMaximus
reply to post by Helious
 


A good recap on the whole situation.

I think we have passed the event horizon as a nation by this point in time, and theres nowhere left to go but straight into the abyss.

Short of a military coup with someone in command who has the nations best interests at heart and knows exactly the game being played here, I see not even a glimmer of hope.

This is definitely a dawning, as your title suggests; an old era has passed, and another is rising to prominence. But this new day and era in American history will be darker than any night the nation has ever experienced before.

edit on 7/10/2013 by CaticusMaximus because: grammar



I honestly don't think our current political and governmental bodies even have the ABILITY to turn the course we are on around, and avoid the possible disaster we are headed to.

In order to avert a crisis, and not simply apply bandaid after bandaid....I would think our government would have to do almost a 360, and I honestly don't see it happening without many of our current infastructeres crumbling.

Many people are familiar with the concept of changing things for the better from the inside. I think this is a noble idea, one of compromise, and yet I think we are beyond that point right now.

I think in order for this country TRULY to reach a great state again, not just appearingly so....then large parts of our current infastructure will have to collapse and be rebuilt.


Say for instance Obama was being honest about the change he promised everyone. Thinking logically for a second.....could he have done what was needed? Does the presidency really even afford him that option (if he really wanted to do what he promised?)



Sometimes the thought occurs to me, that we might actually be beyond the point of no return. I sometimes think only one of two possibilities are really here....either A) a major collapse of sorts, and hopefully eventual rebuilding of America...or B) America becomes a totalitarian state, complete police state...where the government has to seize property, marshal law comes into effect in major cities (or something similar), and the only thing holding the economy up is the government itself (not the markets) artificially. It just seems like one or two of those realities are going to happen within my lifetime. A sad thought, indeed.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by supermarket2012
 

It isn't entirely leaderships fault. The U.S. has experienced increasing measures of extraterrestrial mental influence since the early 80's.

Difficult to believe but all to real.
We've built FEMA prison camps for ourselves.
That isn't human.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by stutteringp0et
 


Homeowners Sue Police Over Violation Of Their Third Amendment Rights

And you would be correct in that assumption.




“At 10:45 a.m. defendant Officer Christopher Worley (HPD) contacted plaintiff Anthony Mitchell via his telephone,” the family’s complaint states. “Worley told plaintiff that police needed to occupy his home in order to gain a ‘tactical advantage’ against the occupant of the neighboring house. Anthony Mitchell told the officer that he did not want to become involved and that he did not want police to enter his residence. Although Worley continued to insist that plaintiff should leave his residence, plaintiff clearly explained that he did not intend to leave his home or to allow police to occupy his home. Worley then ended the phone call.” The family then claimed that David Cawthorn, Worley and Waller “conspired among themselves to force Anthony Mitchell out of his residence and to occupy his home for their own use.” The complaint continues: “Defendant Officer David Cawthorn outlined the defendants’ plan in his official report: ‘It was determined to move to 367 Evening Side and attempt to contact Mitchell. If Mitchell answered the door he would be asked to leave. If he refused to leave he would be arrested for Obstructing a Police Officer. If Mitchell refused to answer the door, force entry would be made and Mitchell would be arrested.” - See more at: www.thedailysheeple.com...





They banged on the door commanding Anthony Mitchell to open the door and let them in. As Anthony Mitchell called his mother on the phone, the officers “smashed open” the front door with a metal ram. These tyrants then allegedly aimed their weapons at the young man and shouted obscenities at him ordering him on the floor. Obviously frightened, he dropped the phone and prostrated himself on the floor. The police then addressed the young man as “a**hole,” shouted conflicting orders at him. The complaint then stated, “Although plaintiff Anthony Mitchell was lying motionless on the ground and posed no threat, officers, including Officer David Cawthorn, then fired multiple ‘pepperball’ rounds at plaintiff as he lay defenseless on the floor of his living room. Anthony Mitchell was struck at least three times by shots fired from close range, injuring him and causing him severe pain.” - See more at: www.thedailysheeple.com...



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


American's dawn.
What will come of all this.......NOTHING. We will grumble and write threads pointing out all the crap the PTB are doing day in day out. But nothing will come of it. We will not even protest that is how far we have fallen.



The only way people will finally wake up is if the food and entertainment stop for more than a week. I bet they could even take away all the guns at this point. As long as people are feed and entertained all is well. The scariest part about this is TPTB have finally figured this simple pathetic fact out.


Heck in other countries they come out in mass of bus prices.
It goes in one ear and out the other. You can buy into the pipe dream all you want that change is coming......... It will never come.
edit on 12-7-2013 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-7-2013 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 01:06 AM
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Well done Helious, a flag, star and a penny for your thoughts.
After having read the existing three pages of this thread the usual demographics
of futility and hope predictably sit at loggerheads. One can expect no less with
the subject matter this obvious and prolific. Your thread as usual stands somewhat
above and apart... affording for more of our needed debate over remedies. My thanks.

I read somewhere all that can kill evil is a greater evil-- in that and every case in
history evil therefore inevitably wins. It's basic unswerving human nature for the
revolutionaries if victorious to become exactly what they fought as younger men...
a new and improved status quo.

Will Peterson (as a different profiler a long time ago in the Red Dragon prequel)
gave the basic cancer of any civilization legs and a voice. I believe his rendition
of Hannibal's description got under my skin long before psychology became a
religion... "We called him a psychopath. We didn't know what else to call him."

Well, object of my old avatar: let's just call evil what it is. Acqiesence to it is
to embrace it, to combat it as a decent population is folly... and the results of
"putting it back in the box" allows it to well scheme the next caper.

Caper, you ask? Yes, by all means-- evil can know joy in only destruction.
It's how they roll. And don't think for a minute any of the evil ones don't worship
their 'lord of this world", or sacrifice to him or for him... even their own flesh and
blood.

The objective is simple. It seems the evil ones think that killing all creation until
there can be no handiwork of their enemy remaining is gonna matter to Him.
"Ya done yet? Ya tired boys and girls? Well go on ahead, I'll be back in another
five whatevers ... and don't mess with the oil or wine, nobody likes a greasy drunk"
LHAO

With all that, and the enemy's said resolve, what could constrain them from US?
A piece of paper proclaiming those constraints... insert W's proclamation here.
So much for the rule of law or even decency. We and the world are presently, say
a lot of learned men, about 70% evil. What we notice as one or the other, good or
evil is irrelevant compared to what we do or do not about it.

Personally I've paid for my principles to the extent that all left to me may be soon
gone, specifically death with a little dignity. After that, who will take up this sword?
Was he another scripted antihero, this Christopher Dorner-- and hundreds if not
thousands unmentioned before him even during our short lifetimes? He and they
became in maybe only one respect the examples we occasionally require to stay
put and shut up... and never question power much less resist it.

We need no dawn or sunset to awaken. I hope it's in time-- but sudden mass infusion
of a viable conscience is a rare miracle. History regrettably shows it for a whole nation
state almost an impossibility.They don't have to be out to get you if you don't even notice
you've always been had
.

Maybe we've all become so flaccid and pliable the United States will just melt into its
own fault lines like some quasihuman Silly Putty over time. Was it goo for you too?
Well welcome to the new abnormal, and more goo for you. Run.Repeat.Replace. Every
time it comes out of the egg, it's a little darker from the removed ink from the kids playing
with documents that used to matter to mom and dad. Nobody notices the gradual darkening
until a buddy shows up with a new egg.

Remember Iceland already had a collective conscience, to unilaterally reject evil.



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