America's dawn

Originally posted by firemonkey

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by firemonkey
Here is what kind of cracks me up.

You are preaching to people like me...people who don't think America is going down in flames, people who don't think the government is taking away our rights (because they're not, tell me one right I no longer have), people who don't think Obama is the antichrist. And you are preaching to us to wake up, or something, and to do something about it.

And yet, people like you, you claim to have your eyes open and "know" all these things you are saying are true...and yet you are doing exactly nothing about it.

So how are you going to preach to me to do something about this when I think it is a bunch of bullocks while even the people who think all these things are true sit on their hands and do nothing?

You asked for "one right" you no longer have, I'll start there. You no longer have the expectation of the 4th amendment. It has been violated on record as a matter of public fact. That's, just to start with.

I haven't been unwarranted searched or seized.

Now if you are talking about Prism, that really has nothing to do with me. My phone records, my emails, my internet activity...I don't own those things...the companies that provide the service to me own them. If those companies make agreements with the government to share THEIR data....I have no say in that when I voluntarily use their services.

The problem is that people don't understand what the government is doing with Prism...and their anger is directed at the government when it should be directed towards the companies that are handing their data over to them. I'm not angry at all...I know everything I put on the internet is not mine...not even this post...after I hit submit, this post is legally ATS's property...not mine.

My basic premise still applies. It is YOU who thinks they have lost their 4th amendment right, I don't believe I have. So why preach to ME to do something about it when it is you who believes it and sits there and does nothing???

edit on 11-7-2013 by firemonkey because: (no reason given)

You have lost your fourth amendment, the issue at hand between you and I is that you don't care about it. I make no effort to "preach" to you, if you are content with the nation and it's government as it currently stands then God speed to you. Your choices are your own.

Prism isn't about information pulled from the internet by the way though, it's about private cell phone records and meta data gathered by the NSA approved by secret courts that we can not obtain any information on because it violates "national security". These types of courts were very prevalent in Germany when the Nazi party took over and in fact, most of the courts that dealt with political dissidents were handled in "secret courts".

They take, filter and browse your data at will without your consent or a legal court order in direct violation of the 4th amendment and demand that the companies they receive the data from not disclose any information by the process of National Security Letters. They spy on you and then forbid anyone in an informed position from saying anything about it. That is not American by my standards and in any shape of thought is a gross and blatant violation of Constitution rights.

reply to post by firemonkey

And yet, people like you, you claim to have your eyes open and "know" all these things you are saying are true...and yet you are doing exactly nothing about it. So how are you going to preach to me to do something about this when I think it is a bunch of bullocks while even the people who think all these things are true sit on their hands and do nothing?

Seriously?
Just getting the apathetic indifferent masses to acknowledge these things is a pretty good accomplishment I would say.

I haven't been unwarranted searched or seized.

Good for you. Over here in America we have had little girls, old ladies, and everything in between strip searched and molested by law enforcement and TSA workers.

Now if you are talking about Prism, that really has nothing to do with me. My phone records, my emails, my internet activity...I don't own those things...the companies that provide the service to me own them. If those companies make agreements with the government to share THEIR data....I have no say in that when I voluntarily use their services. The problem is that people don't understand what the government is doing with Prism...and their anger is directed at the government when it should be directed towards the companies that are handing their data over to them. I'm not angry at all...I know everything I put on the internet is not mine...not even this post...after I hit submit, this post is legally ATS's property...not mine.

Wow, seems like an obvious troll post to me, but I'll bite.

Maybe you don't have a dissenting view of the government now. Maybe later on you will develop one. And just maybe all of your phone calls, emails, web history etc. will be used against you to prove that you are an enemy of the state. Maybe you don't care now because you just look at porn or whatever on the internet but what if such an activity becomes illegal in the future and your web history is distorted or used against you?

My basic premise still applies. It is YOU who thinks they have lost their 4th amendment right, I don't believe I have. So why preach to ME to do something about it when it is you who believes it and sits there and does nothing???

It is not just the OP. There are many people who think this.

And statements like yours is why things will never change.

"I'm not doing anything about it because nobody else is doing anything about it."

And you do know that the American Bill of Rights does not apply to Brits, right?

Originally posted by Ex_CT2

Originally posted by Carreau
Someone has to be first in the stack, first through the door. Until that person leads the charge nothing will happen. So far no one has.

The very thing I've been waiting to happen for a long time. Sooner or later, just the right person is gonna take it up the butt just one goddamn time too many, and it'll be on....

Same here. And I imagine that if I were in a position to be that person, I might wait a little longer for the public to be ready for it, before I make my move. Look at Snowden. He drops a bombshell (ok, that's debatable) and look how the public reacts. Most likely, the right time will be when the economy bottoms out, which I hope happens sooner than later.

The American people took a fair bit of crap before they decided enough was enough against the UK but i don't see that the population is currently annoyed enough to do much more than sit on its arse....theres no one actively going through texas collecting guns or taking AGT of the TV so the population is not roused enough to do much more than murmur a bit and go back to sleep....it has more guns than people so in theory if it wants to reset it back to some point all it needs is a few good leaders and job done....but the problem is who's going to pop their heads up and risk getting their heads dangling from the longest yard arm in the British fleet (using revolutionary thought)

Sadly, I think it's too late.

There is such a war on success, on individuality, personal responsibility.

There is a creeping apathy, a movement towards nanny-ism where people will gladly sacrifice their freedoms for free cable and government food vouchers.

What is more important?

Taking responsibility for you, your family, your success (or failure)?

Or free cable and free food and free housing and free phones?

Somewhere along the way, many people made a deal with the devil (metaphorically speaking) and signed away their soul (freedom) for some "free" stuff.

Now if you can get the rest of your country to see it as you do the usa will become the wonderful place the founding farthers meant it to be.

All i can see is take south africa from the 1960 or 70 the beginning of apartheid and fast forward to current time in the usa and you pretty much have the same. A whole country held hostage by crazy, mindless freaks with no respect for their own people.

reply to post by Helious


Forgive me for butting in as I am not American but America is not it's government or agency's there of, it is it's people and constitution that ties the states together, so is someone trying to tear America apart and for what reason, divide and conquer, Maybe it is time for that bald eagle to become a rising phoenix, We all (THE WORLD or at least the people whom want freedom and justice) need the REAL good old US of A back with us.

I'd star and flag this a thousand times if I could.

It's really too bad that so many people are either willfully ignorant, or blissfully so, that they refuse to acknowledge the state of affairs in this country and their responsibility to do something about it.

It would take a large diverse group, (of patriots) to try to make a forceful change. If its only one person or a smal group. They will just kill you and use the media to spin it and make you look like lunatics. I`ve tried to speak to my friends and acquaintances, and most don`t want to hear it. All that people talk about is the DUMB tv shows, or who`s sports team is winning. Its pathetic!!! So I don`t believe anything will be done by the people until its way to late.

reply to post by Helious


We provide aid to Egypt as a whole, not to the Muslim Brotherhood. I don't know if you noticed but they just got thrown out of office by their military which we give millions in aid to every year.

I'm really getting sick of this site. So many ignorant opinions and diatribes from people who are undoubtedly doing little in life to make real change, from a system that can work. You focus on stupid trumped up fantasies and ignore the real problems that can be fixed with real means.

That and you all use those stupid emoticons all the time. I just can't take you people seriously. It makes you look and sound like children. I have a strong desire for a real adult site that discusses actual problems with black government projects and conspiracies, but all I can find on the web are children with silly fantasies.

It's people like you that make me feel like maybe all the conspiracy stuff is just crazy nonsense.

Originally posted by beezzer
Sadly, I think it's too late.

There is such a war on success, on individuality, personal responsibility.

There is a creeping apathy, a movement towards nanny-ism where people will gladly sacrifice their freedoms for free cable and government food vouchers.

What is more important?

Taking responsibility for you, your family, your success (or failure)?

Or free cable and free food and free housing and free phones?

Somewhere along the way, many people made a deal with the devil (metaphorically speaking) and signed away their soul (freedom) for some "free" stuff.

I hope your wrong but I very much fear your right. I think the bottom, the place where change starts to creep into the minds of the apathetic is when they are forced to eat ramen noodles 3-5 times a week for dinner and that time could be coming.

I am no economist by any stretch of the imagination but all of this money that the government is spending on socialist hand out programs has to come from someplace and I think I know where when I look at the national debt ticker. For the love of God, people are afraid of losing pensions, 401ks and there is talk about social security bankrupting the country yet we have more people on food stamps then we have working in private sector jobs.

Add Obamacare and the increases on the drag to economy when they inevitably don't have the membership needed to pay for itself, then a dash of immigration "reform" and your looking at what could be the worst personal financial crisis America has faced in a long time.

The scary thing about all of that is that the poor will be fine, they will have government assistance to help with housing, food, phone and the essentials but it will be the middle class in America that suffer and lose there houses.... Again and before long what you have is rich and poor and it is extremely easy for the rich to manipulate the poor because not only can they not afford the resources to protect there own rights, they rely on government assistance just to eat!

Of course, none of the above makes much difference, it's largely speculation anyway and when you take a look at the FACTS coming out of Washington and around the country regarding our state of leadership and federal government, we see a fundamental and terrifying threat that is escalating every day towards stipping us of our basic Constitutional protections and rights so that not too far off in the future, there won't be much we are empowered to do about if these things should come to pass.

Originally posted by evictiongnostic
reply to post by Helious

 

We provide aid to Egypt as a whole, not to the Muslim Brotherhood. I don't know if you noticed but they just got thrown out of office by their military which we give millions in aid to every year.

I'm really getting sick of this site. So many ignorant opinions and diatribes from people who are undoubtedly doing little in life to make real change, from a system that can work. You focus on stupid trumped up fantasies and ignore the real problems that can be fixed with real means.

That and you all use those stupid emoticons all the time. I just can't take you people seriously. It makes you look and sound like children. I have a strong desire for a real adult site that discusses actual problems with black government projects and conspiracies, but all I can find on the web are children with silly fantasies.

It's people like you that make me feel like maybe all the conspiracy stuff is just crazy nonsense.

You should probably get your facts straight. Up until the military coup in Egypt, the civilian government (The muslim brotherhood) controlled military forces in Egypt. That is where the BILLIONS not millions was given, in military aid, along with state of art fighter jets. The money we sent during that time was not sent too a general of the army, it was sent and appropriated by said civilian government.

The only reason there was a coup to begin with was that the largest protests in human history were taking place and highly destabilizing not only Egypt but the entire region and when that happened, regional politics took over and hard decisions were made. Furthermore, if you think the Egyptian army is overly friendly to the United States, you are dangerously mistaken. It's not a country we should be allowing military aid too in first place, much less to the recently former terrorist government.

Your words are weak, lacking in both substance and merit and your insults against me personally and to the members of this website are juvenile and baseless. Words often reflect a persons character and I would recommend you work on that.

Well said Helious. Also well said by Carreau.

We as a nation have a RESPONSIBILITY to remove those who would undermine the interests of this nation, and as Carreau put it, we need that leader. I know I'd be right there with him, just give me the time and place. Until then, I'm just me, and I don't know enough to lead that type of revolution.

A question though: if big banks and big corporations are becoming our government and basically dictate law, where does that put Obama? Is he just the face of the nation? What exactly does he control if it's all under the big banks/corporations?

Originally posted by oldetimehockey4

A question though: if big banks and big corporations are becoming our government and basically dictate law, where does that put Obama? Is he just the face of the nation? What exactly does he control if it's all under the big banks/corporations?

As America enters twilight, the reality is just starting to dawn on some people.

Forget Obama, he's done... and he was no different than the puppets that came before him.

JFK got shot because he thought he had the power to changes things, but like John McCain
once said, they did an "intervention" on his arse. Obama works for Wall Street and everything
he has done falls in line with the Grand Plan of the Hidden Hand.

"None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was first written in 1972, and it could have been written yesterday.
Substitute the politicians then with Bush or Obama today. Wealthy families continue with their
younger generations, and some players like Kissinger and corporations live on and on.

After reading about political events, wars, speeches, justifications, denials, ridicule,
lies, co-opted media, etc. written 41 years ago and comparing them with eerily similar
circumstances today, I find it impossible to deny behind-the-scenes planning going on
by and for the benefit of a powerful elite group of bankers, industry, media, foundations,
NGO's etc. I read the book as a teenager and couldn't put the book down.

It answers the seeming contradiction of why wealthy capitalists are pushing socialism
and world government on the rest of us. If you've been skeptical about todays accusations
of conspiracy within our government, read this book and just remember what kooks these
folks were considered for speaking out but history has justified the content of the book.
I suggest those who have not, read "None Dare Call It Conspiracy." Then you'll get it.

You'll be able to view current events with a whole new perspective so things finally make
sense, and you can actually distinguish fact from fiction; it isn't a pretty picture. In the
introduction of the edition I read, it mentions that over 4 million copies sold the first
year and it was priced at an affordable $1.00 (even less for larger quantities). People
were buying multiple copies like hotcakes and sharing with friends and family attempting
to expose and stop the conspiracy. It must have been the "Common Sense" of 1972.
But apparently the evil empire is smart, several steps ahead, and never quits. One
of the reasons for this is explain below (just follow the link in my signature).

Gary Allen said the Insiders helped create the Soviet Union. It was to give the West
(and particularly America) an enemy, thereby justifying increasing federal control,
higher taxes, and internal surveillance. After 70+ years of having to heavily subsidize
the economically backward Soviets, the Insiders decided they were no longer needed.
Other "enemies" could be created -- and now, guess what? The West once again has
an enemy -- international terrorism and Islamo-fascists. And it's far, far cheaper for the
Insiders to fund Al-Queda than it was to fund Marxism in Russia and China. "The more
things change, the more they stay the same."

reply to post by oldetimehockey4

Agreed - My thoughts are this - we are blaming Obama for a lot of our dysfunctions, past and present. I have recently starting thinking that he is just a distraction for all of us. Do you know that a lot of the new laws are literally written by the corporation lobbyists first before our actual elected people pass them? It is the tail wagging the dog sort of speak. Maybe we have all wasted our time concentrating on Obama. Maybe we should start thinking of the corporate CEO's that need their heads handed to them - ya think? Like I said - maybe Obama is just a distraction and a pawn and keeps in the air on vacation out of fear and inexperience.

I am thinking we need to concentrate on the real problem and squish them with a fly swatter - maybe - our government won't - so maybe it needs some new thinking with some new direction.

reply to post by Helious

We supply military aid, equipment and funding to the tunes of billions of dollars a year to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, a known and dangerous terrorist organization, the same people our government is raping our rights to "protect" us from.

While I agree with the thrust of your post, there's one little thing ....

The lion's share of the billions sent to Egypt by the US goes to the military, the very same military that has thrown hundreds of MB in jail without charges, including their duly elected president. Very little aid gets to the government.

Military aid — which comes through a funding stream known as Foreign Military Financing — has held steady at about $1.3 billion since 1987. Economic aid, on the other hand, has fallen by more than two-thirds since 1998.

www.propublica.org...

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by Helious

 

We supply military aid, equipment and funding to the tunes of billions of dollars a year to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, a known and dangerous terrorist organization, the same people our government is raping our rights to "protect" us from.

While I agree with the thrust of your post, there's one little thing ....

The lion's share of the billions sent to Egypt by the US goes to the military, the very same military that has thrown hundreds of MB in jail without charges, including their duly elected president. Very little aid gets to the government.

Military aid — which comes through a funding stream known as Foreign Military Financing — has held steady at about $1.3 billion since 1987. Economic aid, on the other hand, has fallen by more than two-thirds since 1998.

www.propublica.org...

I agree with you and in fact the following is a quote from a post I made a couple above yours.

You should probably get your facts straight. Up until the military coup in Egypt, the civilian government (The muslim brotherhood) controlled military forces in Egypt. That is where the BILLIONS not millions was given, in military aid, along with state of art fighter jets. The money we sent during that time was not sent too a general of the army, it was sent and appropriated by said civilian government.

I understand that it is military funding but what I fail to understand is why we would continue to fund a regimes military when that regime has been demonstrably linked to terrorism in both threats, ideals and actions. The United States actively endorsed Morsi while turning their back on long time supporter, Mubarak. That kind of political flip flopping is nothing new but none the less troubling.

You see, all of the specifics of Egypt are interesting but I am not concerned about them outside of a basic humanitarian position. My main concern with Egypt is the United States government funding known terrorism groups at the exact same time as they willfully and actively engage in criminal conduct against US citizens in the name of keeping us safe from terrorism, the same type of terrorism they were actively sponsoring by funding capital and weapons to the Muslim Brotherhood who at the time, was in control of the Egyptian army and intelligence services.

I am getting more hope everyday.

I think America's finest hour is coming.

Look at the group of people trying to steal our Country.

They will never get away with it.

We need just one courageous leader.

reply to post by Helious


I certainly agree that it is intensely confusing, a real who's on first kind of deal and it all started way back in the 1880s. Before that, actually. And shoot, if we can't even get our own history straight, how are we supposed to understand theirs?

Ron Paul had it right when he said we need to stop ALL foreign aid. That's the only thing that makes any sense.