Citizens Receiving Food Aid from Federal Gov't Now Outnumber Full-Time Private Sector Workers

reply to post by BubbaJoe


Is that now, or in the long run? Edit: and how is it costing Florida more? I really do want to know this.

Second line

Originally posted by thoughtfuldeliquent
I hate to be a little volatile, but libertarians truly astonish me. You know what governments have done? They've sustained societies, created temples, landmarks, city planning, etc. Without the government it turns into chaos.

Chaos is a natural facet of existence. It always exists at all times, no matter how much planning or preparation you can make chaos will always surprise you.

Why did they build those "temples"? Ritual sacrifice and cannibalism? Indoctrinate into subservience?
City planning? It was to accommodate the slave economy, since in the ancient world in most areas more than half of the population would have been officially slaves.

Without government we wouldn't be able to plan and fund these huge global wars either. You need tons of money to wage war.

Plus cmon, governments and corporations are the same thing essentially but for different aspects of our lives. They govern people/employees, policy, worry about PR, etc.

Why were the Nazis "Fascists"? Because corporate and government powers merged and became indistinguishable. Where else has this happened recently?

reply to post by muzzleflash

Why were the Nazis "Fascists"? Because corporate and government powers merged and became indistinguishable. Where else has this happened recently?

Corporate and government mergers sounds a lot like social engineering programs like the topic of food aid.

As we work to support that corporate fascism.

reply to post by neo96


Bread and circuses Neo.

Without these hand outs our nation will collapse into complete tyranny of the mobs just like Egypt is.

What do you think these people will do when 100 million are cut off and need to find solutions pronto?
Dance in the streets with Molotov of course.

Mass widespread destruction of personal and public property, assaults, muggings, rapes, murders, you name it. Look at New Orleans circa Katrina for examples of how things play out. And remind yourself that is a limited isolated situation that only affected a small section of the country, imagine if the entire nation went that route!

That is the primary reason why things are as calm and stable as they are right now. Bread and circuses.
Just like in any other empire in history.

For real solutions to these economic issues : We need to educate people about what freedom and capitalism really are. Right now "capitalism" never existed in the real world, instead what we have are monopolization and cronyism. These are communist traits actually.

Capitalism is about every person being free and owning the fruits of their labors, and that means NO TAXES on labor itself. We could discuss the merits of tariffs and all of that which I do tend to support as an alternative for funding state operations. That is why I am against NAFTA and believe it's policies have strongly influenced the degradation of the US economy.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Why were the Nazis "Fascists"? Because corporate and government powers merged and became indistinguishable. Where else has this happened recently?

Corporate and government mergers sounds a lot like social engineering programs like the topic of food aid.

As we work to support that corporate fascism.

They got us in a bind.

We either support the communist policies, or eat tyranny for breakfast.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

We need to focus on finding the third door out of here.

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by beezzer

 

Your response would be for the government to step in and raise minimum wage?

My response would be that maybe employers should take a page from Henry Ford and pay employees a living wage. It would help the economy and promote business.

Do tell, what kind of taxes and regulations were forced on my Ford at that point in time in our nation's history?

That's a great place for you to start.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by beezzer

 

Your response would be for the government to step in and raise minimum wage?

My response would be that maybe employers should take a page from Henry Ford and pay employees a living wage. It would help the economy and promote business.

Do tell, what kind of taxes and regulations were forced on my Ford at that point in time in our nation's history?

That's a great place for you to start.

People should read this book by Upton Sinclair :
The Flivver King

It's about working for Henry Ford back in the day.

It is no where near the cupcakes and roses people make it out to be, read that book and find out what it was really like.

They couldn't listen to certain music or dance certain ways, they couldn't drink or party, had to dress certain ways etc. and Ford had gangs of thugs go check up on all his employees at home to make sure they were "living accordingly". At least these are alleged incidents of their practices, and it wouldn't surprise me considering the way things were throughout the late industrial era.

From the quote on Amazon:

Workers and bosses, flappers and Klansmen, war and depression, Prohibition outlaws and high-society parties, unions and anti-union gun thugs - few aspects of American life in the first four decades of the last century are missing from this small masterpiece. The Flivver King sustains the same sure grasp of working class life which characterized Sinclair's earlier classic, The Jungle, but much less sentimentally and with a steadier focus on how alienated work breeds not only degradation but also resistance and revolt.

Originally posted by Tazkven
reply to post by peter_kandra

 

I am a Union Maintenance Journeyman for a company that incorporates Six Sigma, you may have heard of them General Electric, we also use a process called Lean to increase our workers productivity. We make more with less people, less waste and less moves to manufacture a completed product. We use no automated robots in the process. All Union blood and sweat creating a quality Union product made in the U.S.A. We have taken products back from Mexico and China to be built right here in Louisville, Ky. Your damn right I am proud of that.

I make a good living and it would be easy for me to keep on keeping on, I feel like I am in a bubble almost, uneffected by the majority of issues most deal with but if I ignore the issues we face as a country because I am unaffected that would make me no better, in my eyes, than those who take advantage of the less fortunate.

I said that to say this ...

The graph I showed was to show stagnated wages over a period of time but the productivity line was just a bonus, it is not because of computers or robots our productivity has increased but because of improved work flow, better training and more intelligently well laid out, ergonomic production lines. We as a country can be competitive and still pay people fairly and provide everyone a better quality of life, regardless of their position on the totem pole.

There are models of successful service jobs paying fair wages. Costco being one, paying employees after five years $19.50 an hour and also giving a bonus of more than $2,000 every six months.

By comparison Wal-Mart pays employees after 5 years $12.50 an hour.

“Instead of minimizing wages, we know it’s a lot more profitable in the long term to minimize employee turnover and maximize employee productivity, commitment and loyalty,”

Having more knowledgeable employees results in better sales, Costco averages $814 in sales per square foot, while Sam's Club makes just $586 per square foot.

"Look at people as an investment and hire the best you can possibly afford,"

"Stretch to your limit to keep them excited about coming to work ... then watch as they actually perform."

Low paid employees like those at Wal-Mart are the ones using welfare to supplement their income to survive, it has to be degrading and embarrassing not to mention it is costing tax payers money.

The CEO of Wal-Mart makes more per hour than his employees do yearly, Michael Duke's $35 million salary, when converted to an hourly wage, is $16,826.92. Employees paid $8.75 an hour would gross $13,650 a year.

That is greed my friend not "investments", how can you possibly defend this?

If Costco can pay people fairly and keep them off of welfare why can't other companies?

The answer is simple, greed and that greed is what is killing this country.

I think you have the wrong perspective.....
Since when is a walmart job supposed to support anyone? Menial jobs have NEVER supported anyone. My grandfather worked three jobs to support himself many years ago because he was unskilled. The same is true now. You are paid what you are worth. A greeter at walmart provides very little and the wage reflects that. He does not deserve 20$ an hour, that ridiculous.

What you should ask yourself is where are the skilled, middle wage jobs? Forcing companies to pay more money will only hurt those still left in the middle class. While minimum wages are brought up, goods will costs more as costs are passed on to the consumer, affecting only the middle class as they will see no difference in their wages, just an increase in goods.

Instead of waging class warfare, you should be angry with government, the actual culprit. But that may hurt you seeing how chairman maobamas favorite corporate friend is GE.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by neo96

 

Bread and circuses Neo.

Without these hand outs our nation will collapse into complete tyranny of the mobs just like Egypt is.

What do you think these people will do when 100 million are cut off and need to find solutions pronto?
Dance in the streets with Molotov of course.

Mass widespread destruction of personal and public property, assaults, muggings, rapes, murders, you name it. Look at New Orleans circa Katrina for examples of how things play out. And remind yourself that is a limited isolated situation that only affected a small section of the country, imagine if the entire nation went that route!

That is the primary reason why things are as calm and stable as they are right now. Bread and circuses.
Just like in any other empire in history.

For real solutions to these economic issues : We need to educate people about what freedom and capitalism really are. Right now "capitalism" never existed in the real world, instead what we have are monopolization and cronyism. These are communist traits actually.

Capitalism is about every person being free and owning the fruits of their labors, and that means NO TAXES on labor itself. We could discuss the merits of tariffs and all of that which I do tend to support as an alternative for funding state operations. That is why I am against NAFTA and believe it's policies have strongly influenced the degradation of the US economy.

Couldnt agree more, true capitalism is dead. The corrupt banks and politicians have their hands so deep in things it seem impossible to ever get to something remotely resembling capitalism. Capitalism means true individual freedom as we are reliant to no-one, and I do not see the federal government wanting to return that power back to the people.

They(gov, banks) seem more interested in control and creating a serfdom for the population by creating an absolute reliance on the state to survive. I fear we have already reached that tipping point, and that eventually serfdom will be inevitable.

Originally posted by pyramid head


Couldnt agree more, true capitalism is dead. The corrupt banks and politicians have their hands so deep in things it seem impossible to ever get to something remotely resembling capitalism. Capitalism means true individual freedom as we are reliant to no-one, and I do not see the federal government wanting to return that power back to the people.

They(gov, banks) seem more interested in control and creating a serfdom for the population by creating an absolute reliance on the state to survive. I fear we have already reached that tipping point, and that eventually serfdom will be inevitable.

Good post thanks for the reply.

You cause me to wonder, did serfdom really ever die? Or did the slave owners just have to "go into hiding" for awhile and make up a bunch of complex frauds in order to "ease us back into it"? Over the course of centuries and with various fluctuations of course.

I have done a ton of research and it is true and factual that we can connect the vast majority of these tycoons and big wig politicos with actual royalty/nobility houses and they are way more related than any of us are.

The very fact that the medieval nobility (which is in fact the proven decent of Roman, Greek *Hellenic*, Egyptian *Kemetic*, Phoenician *Canaanite* noble houses etc.)

We could spend years connecting all the dots with legitimate research but few will even bother to care what any of it means.

For example the so called "Fabian Society". It's extremely corrupt and it's criminal in it's methodology. Heavily steeped in the occult and essentially a think tank for communist ideology as a crux by which global serfdom can be fully established. Their actual emblem officially is a Wolf in Sheep Skin....Totally mind blowing if you do some research on that group.

All types of very important voices in our modern history have come out of that society and they are extremely subversive admittedly in their own writings reflecting on the matter.

They don't care about "Communism" or any other "Ism" ideology, they just care about power actually and herding the sheep while feeding upon them. It's just convenient currently as per the structure of our lies and modern ideologies of fantasy for them to "use Communist ideals" as one of their key tricks to subvert freedom-civil liberty-Constitutional Republics worldwide.

I am not saying the Constitutional Republic is all that great either, it has been used equally for the same purposes but it seems they are wanting to rid of that system and just have a big world communist oligarchy outright through the UN.

But all things considered, I'd like to keep the Constitutional Republic until we can figure out a real viable alternative instead of having them hand over "their final solution" which usually smells of burning flesh and feels like cold hard steel. If anyone ever really researched the revolutions in history they would know they were unnecessary and extremely bloody and never actually solved the problem of tyranny to begin with. They opened a hell on earth of death, disease, poverty, ignorance, etc.

Everyone needs to check out this film/ book "Dr Zhivago". It shows the truth of what happens when people let government have 100% control of everything "for the people", it is a complete disgusting tragedy what happened in Russia. One of the most important periods in history to research along with Nazi Germany itself which was very similar in many ways despite their fraudulent propaganda claiming to be different and in opposition ideologically.

Now my post may sound like a crazy rant initially, but with all of the info I have here in my post anyone not understanding me or what truths I speak can do their own research on the keywords and find out for themselves and make up their own minds. I won't sound so crazy than I hope.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by pyramid head


Couldnt agree more, true capitalism is dead. The corrupt banks and politicians have their hands so deep in things it seem impossible to ever get to something remotely resembling capitalism. Capitalism means true individual freedom as we are reliant to no-one, and I do not see the federal government wanting to return that power back to the people.

They(gov, banks) seem more interested in control and creating a serfdom for the population by creating an absolute reliance on the state to survive. I fear we have already reached that tipping point, and that eventually serfdom will be inevitable.

Good post thanks for the reply.

You cause me to wonder, did serfdom really ever die? Or did the slave owners just have to "go into hiding" for awhile and make up a bunch of complex frauds in order to "ease us back into it"? Over the course of centuries and with various fluctuations of course.

I have done a ton of research and it is true and factual that we can connect the vast majority of these tycoons and big wig politicos with actual royalty/nobility houses and they are way more related than any of us are.

The very fact that the medieval nobility (which is in fact the proven decent of Roman, Greek *Hellenic*, Egyptian *Kemetic*, Phoenician *Canaanite* noble houses etc.)

We could spend years connecting all the dots with legitimate research but few will even bother to care what any of it means.

For example the so called "Fabian Society". It's extremely corrupt and it's criminal in it's methodology. Heavily steeped in the occult and essentially a think tank for communist ideology as a crux by which global serfdom can be fully established. Their actual emblem officially is a Wolf in Sheep Skin....Totally mind blowing if you do some research on that group.

All types of very important voices in our modern history have come out of that society and they are extremely subversive admittedly in their own writings reflecting on the matter.

They don't care about "Communism" or any other "Ism" ideology, they just care about power actually and herding the sheep while feeding upon them. It's just convenient currently as per the structure of our lies and modern ideologies of fantasy for them to "use Communist ideals" as one of their key tricks to subvert freedom-civil liberty-Constitutional Republics worldwide.

I am not saying the Constitutional Republic is all that great either, it has been used equally for the same purposes but it seems they are wanting to rid of that system and just have a big world communist oligarchy outright through the UN.

But all things considered, I'd like to keep the Constitutional Republic until we can figure out a real viable alternative instead of having them hand over "their final solution" which usually smells of burning flesh and feels like cold hard steel. If anyone ever really researched the revolutions in history they would know they were unnecessary and extremely bloody and never actually solved the problem of tyranny to begin with. They opened a hell on earth of death, disease, poverty, ignorance, etc.

Everyone needs to check out this film/ book "Dr Zhivago". It shows the truth of what happens when people let government have 100% control of everything "for the people", it is a complete disgusting tragedy what happened in Russia. One of the most important periods in history to research along with Nazi Germany itself which was very similar in many ways despite their fraudulent propaganda claiming to be different and in opposition ideologically.

Now my post may sound like a crazy rant initially, but with all of the info I have here in my post anyone not understanding me or what truths I speak can do their own research on the keywords and find out for themselves and make up their own minds. I won't sound so crazy than I hope.

Not crazy, the more you look at it the more you think no? really?

All of these aristocratic families have long bloodlines, and it makes sense. During feudal times they were obsessed with inbreeding and now (meaning last hundred years or so) they are obsessed with eugenics. These people are bred from birth to think they are better than normal people. Almost a different, privlidged species.

I think a constitutional republic like you said is still the best option considering its past success. But some improvements should be made if we can ever return like eliminating all or nearly all of the powers of the federal government and let the states have most or all of the power like the constitution intended. I think if the Constitution was ACTUALLY followed the way the founders intended, we would be just fine. The problem being that when they drafted the founding documents I dont think they could have imagined that the documents could just be blatantly ignored or perversed with no sort of repercussions or public outcry.

reply to post by pyramid head


Almost all Communist governments I can think of were originally Republics keep this in mind.

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
People's Republic of China
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
Republic of Cuba
Lao People's Democratic Republic
Socialist Republic of Vietnam

So as we can see the word "Republic" doesn't mean that much, other than that it's a good "cover story".

And I am sure many would love to gripe and say Communism, Socialism, or Marxism, or even Fascism are different, but really they aren't. They all suck and make life impossible for a self-determining responsible citizen.

Any government in history that someone can say was "A good freedom loving government" is wrong and can be shown factually as so. Government = Tyranny in itself, the goal is to "balance powers" and "limit each power" and "keep them in check". That was the goal of the US Constitution and why it should be built upon rather than scrapped as most tyrants desire.

Upholding the Constitutional principles of individual liberty is actually the solution to the vast majority of our modern problems, but it appears that it needs a fresh new set of teeth. That is something worth brainstorming about.

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by Im2keul

 

Really? That is so wrong.

Why? The spending on the military is more than the next 13 nations combined.

All for a bunch of socialists who have absolutely every single thing handed to them by the government and live off of the government dime and even after leaving the military they still get everything handed to them by the bucketload including free healthcare, housing, education and other perks.

But before YOU said high paying jobs is good ....

Now you criticize an area that produces many high paying hourly jobs.

And YOU criticize the military personnel who contribute to those jobs as well as their own.

The 'military political objectives' is as always, debatable, but the economics at home ain't all that bad.
:shk:

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by neo96

 

Why? Why did he EARN them? He volunteered. He got paid for that time. Why do I as a taxpayer have to CONTINUE to pay for a job he already did? Do I get paid for a job I have already gotten paid for after the job is done? No, its a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.

All the good jobs that YOU speak of probably have extended benefits and pensions right ?

reply to post by xuenchen


Again, why should I have to pay for their training? Why should I have to pay for their housing? Why should I have to pay for their equipment? Why should I have to pay for their travel? Why should I have to pay for their food?

And then after the service, why should I have to pay for their continued benefits? If they want these benefits they should pay for them themselves.

Isn't that the neocon/conservative/TEA Party way?

And it's not defense if they are in foreign countries in an illegal war now is it?

Originally posted by pyramid head

I think you have the wrong perspective.....
Since when is a walmart job supposed to support anyone? Menial jobs have NEVER supported anyone. My grandfather worked three jobs to support himself many years ago because he was unskilled. The same is true now. You are paid what you are worth. A greeter at walmart provides very little and the wage reflects that. He does not deserve 20$ an hour, that ridiculous.

What you should ask yourself is where are the skilled, middle wage jobs? Forcing companies to pay more money will only hurt those still left in the middle class. While minimum wages are brought up, goods will costs more as costs are passed on to the consumer, affecting only the middle class as they will see no difference in their wages, just an increase in goods.

Instead of waging class warfare, you should be angry with government, the actual culprit. But that may hurt you seeing how chairman maobamas favorite corporate friend is GE.

Mind = Blown

On one hand you want to blame the government and on the other you say these people should not be paid enough to keep them off of welfare, thus forcing them to turn to the Government for support.

Apparently you believe everyone should work 3 jobs just to survive, while the owners of these businesses live like kings. Brilliant!

Who are you to determine someones worth? That walmart greeter is working for a company that makes BILLIONS yearly and the CEO makes 35 million a year, who is it exactly that is being disadvantaged here if a walmart greeter or cashier shares in the success of the company and makes 20 bucks an hour, what the minimum wage actually should be now, and kept off of government assistance?

I know exactly where the skilled, middle wage jobs are going, they are being outsourced to countries with lower costs of living that pays people about a dollar a day. When those products are then imported back into the Country the savings are not passed on to the consumers, no ... They are pocketed by the company as profit.

Show me one outsourced product that used to be made in the US and is now imported back in that has dropped in price, you can't.

The whole "higher minimum wages will raise the cost of goods" argument is a myth, can you show any facts to support this? Again, no ... No you can't.

The cost of living has increased over decades even while wages have stagnated, according to you homes, cars, Gas, milk and eggs should cost the same as they did 20 years ago.

Lastly, You and another poster want to take pot shots about the company I work for. That is fine, I totally expected more to be honest. As I explained earlier I am Union. We fight the company daily, monthly and yearly and sometimes we even reach agreements via collective bargaining. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose but we have the right to stand up and fight back. Whether they are skilled or unskilled new hires on their first day walk in with full medical insurance, vacation days and a wage that keeps them off of Government assistance.

Now, allow me throw one more little wrench in your logic. Did you know Wal-Mart makes more revenue than GE does? How is it you can justify an unskilled employee of Wal-Mart be eliglble for Government assistance, while an unskilled employee of GE from day one has medical insurance, vacation days and a wage that keeps them off of Government assistance. All the while Wal-Mart makes more revenue?

No my friend, it is you who has the wrong perspective ...

I wonder what would happen if all these programs just vanished and the poorest set of people in the ghettos that are already dilluted in crime and violence stop receiving aid? I would be willing to bet that they will start leaving ghettos and coming to a house, buisness, near you and they are not going to be coming over to say hi. I would bet just with that subset alone we would see such an increase in violence and crime you would probably say wtf. IDK what a good solution is to the problems facing us in this department but I will say that there isnt enough jobs in America to support the working population off the get go, roll that up to those that shouldnt be in college go get into debt getting a degree in buisness management and then become managers at Target or whatever the case may be. Personally I would have liked to see instead of the bank bailouts to see that money go to older workers within the 5 year till retirement type deal get a million get full retirement benefits and with that money buy an American car or pay off an american car and pay off their homes. It always bites my ass when I see a foreign car with a I support my troops sticker on the bumper sticker, my point is, is that consumerism in America is the estranged wife of bad policy. Greed and the populations needs to buy cheap trinkets really is messing us up in this arena. If it was easy to do I think the population and country would benefit from living humbler lives and collectively work together in building and sustaining a responsible future, instead you get enerstar 60 in TVs that burn out after a couple of years and recalls on your cheap foreign cars that the fed can use to spy on you, conveinence and responsibilty are not the same and when I say responsibility i mean it collectively that means all of us.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I wasn't talking about working conditions. I asked what regulations and government taxes he had to account for to make his profit margin.

Originally posted by HauntWok
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Again, why should I have to pay for their training? Why should I have to pay for their housing? Why should I have to pay for their equipment? Why should I have to pay for their travel? Why should I have to pay for their food?

And then after the service, why should I have to pay for their continued benefits? If they want these benefits they should pay for them themselves.

Isn't that the neocon/conservative/TEA Party way?

And it's not defense if they are in foreign countries in an illegal war now is it?

NeoCons are progressive, big-government Republicans. Certainly not Conservative/TEA Party.

this is a ridiculous!! no one seems to consider the fact that a large portion of the people who work full time also get food assistance. There are not more lazy people who don't work, while getting SNAP benefits... This is just conservative garbage.

If you really think the problem is the Gov. is giving too much of the money we give them to poor people. your crazy!!!

Originally posted by Brotherman
I wonder what would happen if all these programs just vanished and the poorest set of people in the ghettos that are already dilluted in crime and violence stop receiving aid? I would be willing to bet that they will start leaving ghettos and coming to a house, buisness, near you and they are not going to be coming over to say hi. I would bet just with that subset alone we would see such an increase in violence and crime you would probably say wtf. IDK what a good solution is to the problems facing us in this department but I will say that there isnt enough jobs in America to support the working population off the get go, roll that up to those that shouldnt be in college go get into debt getting a degree in buisness management and then become managers at Target or whatever the case may be. Personally I would have liked to see instead of the bank bailouts to see that money go to older workers within the 5 year till retirement type deal get a million get full retirement benefits and with that money buy an American car or pay off an american car and pay off their homes. It always bites my ass when I see a foreign car with a I support my troops sticker on the bumper sticker, my point is, is that consumerism in America is the estranged wife of bad policy. Greed and the populations needs to buy cheap trinkets really is messing us up in this arena. If it was easy to do I think the population and country would benefit from living humbler lives and collectively work together in building and sustaining a responsible future, instead you get enerstar 60 in TVs that burn out after a couple of years and recalls on your cheap foreign cars that the fed can use to spy on you, conveinence and responsibilty are not the same and when I say responsibility i mean it collectively that means all of us.

here here!!!! add in the fact that the top 2% make 93% OF ALL THE MONEY!!! while the 98% all fight over the last 7%. Good luck ending welfare programs without fixing this first!! This poster is right there would be massive riots and prob revolution1! IMO most conservative policies fit this same mold....It ain't my job to pay for that!! While ignoring the way there policy would actually effect the country.