Citizens Receiving Food Aid from Federal Gov't Now Outnumber Full-Time Private Sector Workers

Originally posted by HauntWok


Actually I'm working on the mentality that paying your employees enough so that they don't have to get food stamps and other government assistance will help the economy.
Not exactly you per se (Cause honestly I don't know how well or poorly you treat anyone employed by you) But if companies with employees actually paid them a living wage, a lot of problems with the deficit and taxes would ease up.

This whole living wage crap is just that.....crap.
As you raise the wage, the company raises their price.
Sales taper off and then the business lets people go.
This is not that difficult to understand.

Originally posted by HauntWok
But hey, why not just hire part time employees, and replace them every 5 months 29 days so that they don't qualify for unemployment insurance and you can keep hiring people for less and less and less. See how well that works out of the economy.

I don't own or operate a business to assist the economy. Nor do I do this to "employ" people. I run and own a business to make money.

If you don't like those business practices that you stated, then why not work to keep Govt out of MY business.

reply to post by macman


In many ways, I could not agree with you more.
My grand father worked for 25 cents an hour. That was plenty for everythng they could ever want. This was at a time when men got really rich also. You know like Carnagie and Westinghouse and Rockafellow. All of these guys got rich and they didn't need no "social safety net" or "nanny state" watch out for them.

reply to post by macman

As you raise the wage, the company raises their price.

You don't have to, you want to.

Sales taper off and then the business lets people go.

It's not the employees fault that you haven't set your prices to match market value for the product or service. Do more business, and you will get the money you would have "lost" to the raises your employees get.

This is not that difficult to understand.

Apparently it is, because you just aren't getting it.

I don't own or operate a business to assist the economy. Nor do I do this to "employ" people. I run and own a business to make money.

Shouldn't you be in business to sell a quality product at a reasonable price and therefore make money by being better than your competition? Oh right, no one cares about quality in this country anymore (see Detroit) they just want a quick buck.

Giving your employees a living wage increases their morale, thereby increasing their productivity, and as an extension generates you more revenue and higher profits.

If you don't like those business practices that you stated, then why not work to keep Govt out of MY business.

Because without it, companies (not necessarily yours) would destroy the environment, pay employees next to nothing, employ child labor, rob employees pay, make working conditions unsafe just to save a buck, basically creating a slave caste in society and destroying liberty in exchange for the almighty dollar.

The economy would suffer as a result because not enough people would be in the position to buy products or services (including products or services from your company) and more businesses would fold as a result.

The only way to get out of this horrible economy is if business owners like yourself take it on the chin a little bit and make it your business to hire people at a decent wage, thereby ensuring that they don't have to take food stamps or government assistance in order to survive.

Doing this, recharges the economy, creates a stronger middle class, increases your prospective customer base, thereby giving you more opportunity to turn a greater profit all while increasing tax revenue from your employees higher wages shrinking the deficit allowing the government to ease YOUR tax burden.

This is not that difficult to understand.

Want a stronger economy? (you really do, because as you stated yourself, you are in business to make money) Every single small business owner must take it upon themselves to fix this economy by hiring two people each, and paying their employees a real living wage. Doing that will be returned to you 10 fold in time because those people will now be middle class and able to buy from each and every one of your businesses, earning you more profit.

In this way, the economy grows, not just a little, but by leaps and bounds. Slowly at first, but much more quickly over time and not a long time either. Everyone including you wins.

Originally posted by Maluhia
Yes they should be working on improving the economy and providing jobs, if that's what they're intersted in, but it seems they truly do have a different agenda and it's playing out quite well. The Cloward Priven strategy?

www.discoverthenetworks.org...

edit on 9-7-2013 by Maluhia because: (no reason given)

I don't think I have ever read anything as frightening as that. It is the blueprint for what is happening in our country.

Originally posted by beezzer
Interesting spin.

So it is the fault of business for not paying people more; that there are so many on food stamps.

Your response would be for the government to step in and raise minimum wage?

edit on 10-7-2013 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

It has been shown in the past that when people are able to earn a wage that gives them disposable income that they will dispose of it. It is very good for the economy and for the growth of business.

Big business is consistently failing Econ 101, and that is one of the things that is destroying our economy and country.

reply to post by Tazkven

I totally agree with you that we have to leave partisanship out of this. We need to fire all the lawyers in DC and start putting some statesmen in instead of politicians. Unfortunately, with the debacle that our modern electoral system is, that is something that is unlikely to happen. They will just make a law that you have to be a lawyer to be a lawmaker, worst idea ever, BTW.

Looking at the world's recent economic history, the initiation of FTA's heralded the downfall of the middle class.

In the 60's, 70's, and most of the 80's being middle class meant that you had money to put away for your children's education, your retirement, and, wonder of wonders, vacations. It has reached the point now where the middle class is virtually nonexistent in the US. The last time I took a vacation was when I quit a job so that I could be by my dying mother's side, in 1994.

I have not had time to read all the replies, but I just came acroos thies and thought it deservered to be noted here.

thinkprogress.org...

A little of the text reads:

We want to do a better job of raising up the disadvantaged and the poorest in this country, rather than saying ‘Oh, we’re just fine now.’ We’re not saying that at all. What we’re saying is, we need to analyze all these additional policies, these subsidies, this cronyism, this avalanche of regulations, all these things that are creating a culture of dependency. And like permitting, to start a business, in many cities, to drive a taxicab, to become a hairdresser. Anything that people with limited capital can do to raise themselves up, they keep throwing obstacles in their way. And so we’ve got to clear those out. Or the minimum wage. Or anything that reduces the mobility of labor.

Maybe he is on to something. How do you think he got rich.
Maybe he saves a lot of money by not paying large wages, so he has more money to put into the bank.
If poor people would just do the same, they could be rich too

Originally posted by HauntWok
You don't have to, you want to.

Incorrect.

It's not the employees fault that you haven't set your prices to match market value for the product or service. Do more business, and you will get the money you would have "lost" to the raises your employees get.

You are woefully unaware of how little markup there is in products made and sold in the US versus products made elsewhere and sold in the US.

Apparently it is, because you just aren't getting it.

You have avery poor grasp of economics, so I wouldn't be so quick to judge others.

Shouldn't you be in business to sell a quality product at a reasonable price and therefore make money by being better than your competition? Oh right, no one cares about quality in this country anymore (see Detroit) they just want a quick buck.

In theory, yes. In practice, there are limitations. Do you think quality dropped first or price? It is chicken and egg.

Giving your employees a living wage increases their morale, thereby increasing their productivity, and as an extension generates you more revenue and higher profits.

Incorrect.

Human production has been grossly over valued for a while now. Equipment (which is owned by the company) now accounts for the vast majority of performance, and performance gains.

It doesn't matter how much I pay any human, they will never come close to the equipment that I have. They would, literally, require a minimum of 8 arms with two independently controlled hands on each arm. And enough eyes and computational power to coordinate all of it at the same time.

The office staff would require who knows how many heads to keep up with the speed and accuracy of the computers they us (also company owned).

Technology has killed the employee, what we see today is a fall out of that.

Because without it, companies (not necessarily yours) would destroy the environment, pay employees next to nothing, employ child labor, rob employees pay, make working conditions unsafe just to save a buck, basically creating a slave caste in society and destroying liberty in exchange for the almighty dollar.

BS. Almost all of our greatest 'alternative' progress has come through independent research.

Companies do one thing, sell product. They do not dictate the product or the future path of products. Consumers do.

The economy would suffer as a result because not enough people would be in the position to buy products or services (including products or services from your company) and more businesses would fold as a result.

Again, BS.

You are completely oblivious to how economics work. Entertaining? Yes. Relevant? No.

The only way to get out of this horrible economy is if business owners like yourself take it on the chin a little bit and make it your business to hire people at a decent wage, thereby ensuring that they don't have to take food stamps or government assistance in order to survive.

Doing this, recharges the economy, creates a stronger middle class, increases your prospective customer base, thereby giving you more opportunity to turn a greater profit all while increasing tax revenue from your employees higher wages shrinking the deficit allowing the government to ease YOUR tax burden.

This is not that difficult to understand.

Want a stronger economy? (you really do, because as you stated yourself, you are in business to make money) Every single small business owner must take it upon themselves to fix this economy by hiring two people each, and paying their employees a real living wage. Doing that will be returned to you 10 fold in time because those people will now be middle class and able to buy from each and every one of your businesses, earning you more profit.

In this way, the economy grows, not just a little, but by leaps and bounds. Slowly at first, but much more quickly over time and not a long time either. Everyone including you wins.

The only way out of this mess is to suicide the US economy by withdrawing from globalization, or holding out long enough that income equality moves around the globe.

Both, are currently unattainable.

reply to post by macman


This argument about businesses not meant to provide jobs, has always puzzled me. I understand that the owner is suppose to be rewarded for his work, but I don't know why shareholders hold sway over jobs. I can't speak for everyone, but in my world, everyone has stopped spending money except on the basics. There are no more camping trips, buying that extra vehicle, buying a better house, things like that the middle class use to do. That is no progress for anyone. Without jobs, what are we to do? People cannot afford to hunt or even fish anymore for food because of the cost. Most people can't afford to buy farms and there "no trespassing signs" everywhere, no free areas for hunting and fishing for most people anymore. When businesses and shareholders discount the importance of jobs, they should think about Zombie movies, with the hungry being the zombies.

I work in a general store. It's said that our taking food stamps saved the company. It's now in the upper half of the Fortune 500. From what I see, It seems that mostly junk food is bought with EBT. I frequently see see large purchases consisting only of packs of different candy bars and a variety of 2 liter sodas. Thank you Snack Food Association for your lobbying.

I'm a socialist, but I'm no fan of the US welfare system. It's so wrong, it can't be an accident.

My huge company pays me minimum wage and keeps me part time. However, I've recently turned down the position of manager twice. The time I did accept, I was working so many hours on salary, I was making less than the hourly help. Managers are required to work at least 48 hours a week and are allowed 1 day off

Where's that life of leisure automation and computers were to bring? Oh, the CEO's kept it all for themselves.

Originally posted by HauntWok
You don't have to, you want to.

Yes, I WANT to if I want to actually make a profit from MY company, and if I WANT to stay in business.

Originally posted by HauntWok
It's not the employees fault that you haven't set your prices to match market value for the product or service. Do more business, and you will get the money you would have "lost" to the raises your employees get.

Again, spoken by someone who comes across with no clue as to how a business is run. My prices are set at market value. If my costs rise, then the business turns less of a profit. SO.....Less profit, means less ability to pay wages. This is basic stuff, and I understand that most posters here really have no clue to how things actually work, but this is pretty basic stuff. MY business is there to provide me an income. It was not created to employ people.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Apparently it is, because you just aren't getting it.

Says the person not running a business.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Shouldn't you be in business to sell a quality product at a reasonable price and therefore make money by being better than your competition? Oh right, no one cares about quality in this country anymore (see Detroit) they just want a quick buck.

Yes, that is the business model of most companies. I don't see it where the business was opened to create employment opportunities for people.
And, where oh where did I state anything about the quality of my product. Have you purchased anything from me??? I think not.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Giving your employees a living wage increases their morale, thereby increasing their productivity, and as an extension generates you more revenue and higher profits.

At the expense of what??? If I do end up hiring people, it will be a competitive wage, with the profit/loss index reviewed as well. Why would I pay employees more then other companies, if my company will not operate at a profit?? That thought process is about a Y Generation Hipster as it gets.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Because without it, companies (not necessarily yours) would destroy the environment, pay employees next to nothing, employ child labor, rob employees pay, make working conditions unsafe just to save a buck, basically creating a slave caste in society and destroying liberty in exchange for the almighty dollar.

Yeah, okay then. Because you know me and my company personally. A company is there to make a profit for an owner. Period. If people don't want to work for lower payer, then go somewhere else. Or are you and others too dumb or lazy to do this?

Originally posted by HauntWok
The economy would suffer as a result because not enough people would be in the position to buy products or services (including products or services from your company) and more businesses would fold as a result.

Oh, you mean like company A producing their widget and selling it at $10 instead of an over inflated price of $50. Where the worker is paid $10 an hour instead of $50. Because the widgets and such aren't over inflated.
Your lack of understanding of these things is mind boggling, as it is very basic at best.

Originally posted by HauntWok
The only way to get out of this horrible economy is if business owners like yourself take it on the chin a little bit and make it your business to hire people at a decent wage, thereby ensuring that they don't have to take food stamps or government assistance in order to survive.

Oh, so because people like YOU want to tax businesses, regulate them and force them to have lower profit margins is the only way out of the recession, that was created by Govt in the first place??
Yeah, sorry. It ain't going to happen. First off, I have no plan in the next year of hiring people. This is due to the burdensome regulations and taxes I will have to deal with, along with the wonderful 0bamacare. Why would I hire anyone? It consumes too much money. I will just continue to work my day job, and my company and keep MY profits.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Doing this, recharges the economy, creates a stronger middle class, increases your prospective customer base, thereby giving you more opportunity to turn a greater profit all while increasing tax revenue from your employees higher wages shrinking the deficit allowing the government to ease YOUR tax burden.

No. It will only take money away from myself and my company.
You truly think that the Govt will shrink MY tax burden??? Now that is laughable. The same Govt forcing new and larger regulations and taxes each year?? Yeah, I don't live at the boots of Govt,


Continued.....

Originally posted by HauntWok
Want a stronger economy? (you really do, because as you stated yourself, you are in business to make money) Every single small business owner must take it upon themselves to fix this economy by hiring two people each, and paying their employees a real living wage. Doing that will be returned to you 10 fold in time because those people will now be middle class and able to buy from each and every one of your businesses, earning you more profit.

No, it doesn't work that way.
I am not going to suffer, nor will my family, so your college based idea can be worked out.
My product, at 208 units a year, is already sold out before half the year is done. I don't need more people buying, because demand is so high. I will not hire someone, until 0bamacare is gone and taxes come down. I have no need to. I can work with contractors to do small jobs, avoid the taxes and everything else associated with it.

Originally posted by HauntWok
In this way, the economy grows, not just a little, but by leaps and bounds. Slowly at first, but much more quickly over time and not a long time either. Everyone including you wins.

No, it grows by people getting off the Govt handout, requiring less taxes stolen from MY paycheck.
It grows by business doing better, because their profit to loss margin grows more distant from each other.

Your economic view is very quaint, and scholastic in nature. Maybe Bernake needs an assistant.

Originally posted by MOMof3


This argument about businesses not meant to provide jobs, has always puzzled me. I understand that the owner is suppose to be rewarded for his work, but I don't know why shareholders hold sway over jobs.

No, you are not reading what I wrote.
Businesses were created to make a profit for someone. They were not created to provide jobs.
The owner is the boss. I am the boss of my company. What I state goes. I am not doing to to make workers happy, provide them a job or anything else. I do it to make money, period. Employment is a side effect of not meeting production demands of sales.

Originally posted by MOMof3
I can't speak for everyone, but in my world, everyone has stopped spending money except on the basics. There are no more camping trips, buying that extra vehicle, buying a better house, things like that the middle class use to do.

Maybe move to where the jobs are. Where I live, things are doing great. My state has not really been hit with a recession. I see people that depend on the Fed Govt taking a hit, but what is expected. When you rely on funds from a Govt that steals its funds from others, I have no tears when those dependent upon it are hurting.

Originally posted by MOMof3
That is no progress for anyone. Without jobs, what are we to do?

Oh, the "progress" word. That says it all.
Without jobs?? Like the people of older times, when the area ran out of resources, they moved.

Originally posted by MOMof3
People cannot afford to hunt or even fish anymore for food because of the cost.

Thanks to Govt is creating hunting laws and such. Not my doing.

Originally posted by MOMof3
Most people can't afford to buy farms and there "no trespassing signs" everywhere, no free areas for hunting and fishing for most people anymore. When businesses and shareholders discount the importance of jobs, they should think about Zombie movies, with the hungry being the zombies.

Thank the Fed Govt for all of that.
What do you want me to do about it?

reply to post by gentledissident

WOW. So you are working minimum wage, have turned down a management position because it required too much work, and you complain about the CEOs lifestyle???

Maybe go and look at what was done by your CEO to obtain that position in life.

Your statements have you coming across as lazy. Very lazy. And very envious of those that have what you don't.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
So if a child is receiving breakfast and lunch at school, what happens to all the food stamps being provided to the parent(s)? It's obvious the system is ripe for abuse.

in this area many parents sell their food stamps, as do individuals.
mostly to buy drugs.

the schools, playgrounds, the food kitchens and pantries then feed the poor.

reply to post by macman


I'm just an animal enjoying the sunshine. Death is too final and life is too short to spend it working. If working your life away gives you pleasure, you have fun.

No, I'm not lazy, I contribute to my community. I'm a socialist, I feel we should all contribute. I'm not envious of the CEOs. My socialist technological utopian vision looks nothing like their lives.

reply to post by gentledissident


Yet you still complain about someone that has put in there time.

Unless you are willing to do what he has done, stop complaining about what he has amassed or achieved.

Envy is a nasty shade on those people that refuse to work for what they want.

reply to post by macman


No, sorry, I will continue to complain about the greed, lust for power, selfishness, militarism, and a multitude of other wrongs. You'll have to do more than tell me to shut up if you want me to stop.

BTW, your "You're just jealous" routine is adorable.

reply to post by gentledissident

Continue to complain, as it just shows that you truly are envious of what others have.

And again, lazy because you are not willing to work to obtain those things that the people have, that you hate so much.

I am forced, by theft, to share what I have earned for my hard work, while people like you just "enjoy the sun".

Funny, as you want more of that forced "sharing", because you are again, lazy and unwilling to work for it.

reply to post by macman


You're not paying me by theft. I'm on no assistance.

Does being relaxed, to you you, mean being lazy? If so, you might want to have your heart checked out.

Dude, there is no way you can understand me. You have never seen and will never look at life as I have and do. You can only attempt to insult me due to your lack of understanding.