What if Jesus is the DECEPTION?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

What do you mean by this?

The "war in heaven" may be a human invention. The Sky has been the Sky long before humans started naming. The name changes were a result of human wars and cultural changes. The gods weren't really fighting for supremacy of the Sky.

reply to post by GISMYS


GOD ALMIGHTY is FATHER,SON AND HOLYSPIRIT=three but one just as man is body,soul and spirit=three but one man.

reply to post by GISMYS

JESUS says He is GOD!

The Gospel of John says that Jesus said that he and the Father are One. I don't see the word "GOD" in that verse. Are you injecting your own god into the verse?

If I said that Jesus personally appeared before me and offered me an alliance, would you believe it, or even care?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

God took full responsibility for the larger framework by which sin entered the fray, and we are also responsible for our own choices don't you think? What's extended by God through Jesus is an invitation to participate at a whole new level and enter into a life of new possibility. When our own hearts desire becomes synonymous with the will of God then we are truly happy and tend to reap a harvest of good things, but when we try to work apart from God, it's not so good and the evidence for this is all around us. Also, God knows us and accepts and forgives us even in our sins. As to "change" where "change" means something different from or better than, what went before, that's not what God has in mind I don't think since the goal is nothing less than a new creation, and for ourselves a change of heart.

We don't need to defend against the love and mercy of a Just God in order to protect our own sinful behavior, no the only thing to do is to accept responsibility, like he did, as a role model, pick up our "cross" (there's always something to work out) and follow him into the resurrected life, which is a life of joy, peace, satisfaction of the lasting kind and everlasting happiness, even life meeting life, progressively where the best is still yet to come.

And that God's love contends with the will and pride of man and has as it's goal the "treatment" of our sinful nature, to the core isn't something to be blamed on God. After all, why start a project if it's only half funded.

Jesus said to measure the cost of discipleship, because there's no half measures.

It's not for the faint of heart or for those who cherish a certain type of lifestyle and who are not willing to allow anything to encroach upon it, even if the intent is to make us truly happy and joyful and fulfilled even to the nth degree and to overflowing.

reply to post by SimonPeter

Kolbrin Bible ... I don't suppose you saw that .

No, I missed that, a link may have been helpful, maybe a quote? The Alexandria Library was burned down long after the Old Testament was written, AD wasn't it? Not exactly a source from 1400 B.C. See, I'm just ignorant of it, a quote about dating at least would have helped.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kolbrin Bible

The result was Delete. Consensus is that there is an insufficient amount of independent reliable source material to support the article. There also is consensus that the material is original research.Jreferee t/c 02:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Non notable fringe theory, not discussed in any mainstream reliable sources. Should be deleted per WP:FRINGE. Many google hits, but all from fringe sites and the like. Texts of over 3,000 years old without any scholarly interest are rather dubious. Similar article Kolbrin was deleted through ProD previously. Fram (talk) 12:46, 21 November 2007

Maybe I didn't look at the right fringe webpages.

reply to post by Jusvistn


Jusvistn.. liking the username. I wrote Justin at first

There comes a time when all of us struggle with idea of Christ. Faith at times is no more, or just so so so little. You end up asking God 100 questions, then you start to stumble over many other issues. You start doubting God in certain ways. You start doubting all that is hope.

Those whom causes us that doubt are the deceiver/s. That's their plan and game, and they can play a good game. But, they are not the best players.

Easy to talk, but I have walked my own extremely difficult path in faith. Love, the joy of the salvation of His Son saved my soul. I know I will still stumble, but I know through Him I will get up and not look back. Not this time around.

You are His child. He will test you, seems unfair at times. But, He will never put you through a test you cannot handle.

Armor of God (Eph 6) ..

reply to post by pthena


Just Google it .They also believed that the water receded because of a planet orbiting on a Nibiru like orbit that passed close to earth . There is a raised plateau where they crossed that was revealed and after the crossing covered again with enough water to drown those that tried to cross after them . That is where the Chariot wheels were found . You can also google them .You first have to want to know .

Originally posted by technomage1
i have a theory that kind of answers the deception question. what if Jesus was one of many that came to share knowledge and truth of self and god. One curious detail is the 666 number of the beast especially when the
"coincidence" is that about 600 years before Christ was the life and teachings of Buddha and about 600 years after Christ was the life and teachings of Muhammad the fact that the core teachings of each are more than similar another "coincidence"
a spoiled rich kid, a lowly carpenter and a military general all with a similar message each killed in the end.
the "coincidences" are looking more like a connect the dots picture as for the deception that comes not from the core teachings but the organizations that formed around them the culture of the communities have laws outside the life and teachings of these great men and that is where the deception lives

Gautama Buddha was born in 563 BC and is believed to have died in about 400 BC (give or take 20 years). This is NOT 600 years. Buddhism embraced the poly-theistic faith of the Hindu's.

Muhammad's message is perhaps similar to Christianity because his brother in law was a Christian. His faith, however, was based upon elevating one god (the rain and creator god) out of a number of gods worshiped at the Kaabah, to the 'one god'. A reading of the Koran and the Jewish Torah reveals that they are of a different nature and not the same god.

The 666 reference (from The Revelation of Christ) cannot be construed in the manner you describe, as it is specifically "the number of a man" i.e: used to identify a particular individual. The 666 number also was not mentioned by Jesus, but was penned by St John many years after the crucifixion.

You may believe that there are similarities between these faiths but they are all very different in significant ways. The message, its delivery and its implications are different in all cases and the opinion that they are similar perhaps pertains to generalizations made rather than actual study.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Where does Jesus call us to worship Him,. or even pray to Him?

Other issues I will question after an answer to this

edit on 9-7-2013 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

Matthew 15 8:-9 "This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men".

John 14:13 "You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father."

Originally posted by superluminal11
Jesus never said he was God.


He said it was the father in him that did the works.

Matter fact he would have told you not to worship him.

When he said to see him was to see God...he meant his nature.
Kindness, Forgiveness, Love, Compassion.

John 20: 28-29 "And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God. Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

It doesn't sound like Jesus was denying that He was God, does it?

reply to post by pthena
[mo====aRE YOU SAYING YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO JESUS is talking about when he says HE and the father are one? REALLY?

Originally posted by ganjoa
Apologies for not reading the ENTIRE thread, you may consider these remarks to be off topic.

The concept of Jesus as God was promoted in the fourth century and expressed in the Nicene Creed - as far as I understand the concept of the Holy Trinity, both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are considered as much "god" as "God the Father". We were taught the "Apostle's Creed" in Catholic School when I was a kid, along with the now-defunct concept of limbo, the "sin" of eating meat on Friday, praying for the dead, and a host of other concepts that couldn't be resolved thus inducing a great degree of cognitive dissonance.

Further, is it not a pre-requisite to affirm the Nicene Creed and the Holy Trinity for ALL Christian sects?

On cursory examination, Paul of Tarsus was never an Apostle, although all the Roman Catholic services refer to his Epistles as being from "Paul the Apostle". This has always irked me somewhat, being as Paul's teachings are the most misogynistic writings in the New Testament, especially if one includes the concept of a celibate clergy as a result of applying Paul's writings to the inner workings of the Church . In my view (admittedly not a widely held one) Paul of Tarsus is most aptly described as "Paul the Apostate" not "Paul the Apostle".

Again, in my view, Jesus is NOT a deception - BUT - many of the biblical writings in the New Testament ARE quite deceptive and ultimately dilute the teachings of Jesus as represented in the Holy Bible.

With respect,

ganjoa

edit on 10-7-2013 by ganjoa because: spellin'

edit on 10-7-2013 by ganjoa because: (no reason given)

Paul was not misogynist!

You have read the so called misogynistic passages out of context.

He explains that sponsor/mentor and teacher in the faith was a woman called Salome and uses that to establish his authority to address the particular issues which some interpret as a misogynistic response.

Please re-read the passages in context and think further of the implications of little 'ignored' details.

reply to post by chr0naut


BELIEVE GOD'S WORD or you will believe satan's lies=your choice!===JOHN 14:9-11Jesus said unto him, “Have I been so long a time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, ‘Show us the Father’?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself; but the Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works.

11 Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the very works’ sake.

Originally posted by Kody27

Originally posted by Jusvistn
I honestly do not want to start a holy war or all out religious cyber fight, but am looking for real input.

I believe in GOD, I believe that there is an intelligent design to our planet, our environment and our species, but I truly struggle with the concept of Jesus as GOD.

I'm not saying that Jesus never existed, and I'm not saying that Jesus wasn't a great inspiration bringing GODS will and knowledge to us, but I find it difficult to worship a man when GOD says you "will put no other GODS before me." Essentially, is that not what folks are doing when they are praying and worshiping Jesus INSTEAD of God?

And though Jesus teaches these things, and then tells us to worship him..... what if he is the true deception in the grand scheme of things?

To me, Jesus is separate from God, and I have a hard time calling them one in the same, and I have difficulty with the God made flesh aspect that brings us to the whole Son, Spirit, Holy Ghost thing..... For me, to believe in the "one true God" means that Jesus would be no more than a teacher as what you would find preaching from the front of the church today. So I ask again, could Jesus be the Deception, and in his "teachings" be pulling the people away from God and into his own agenda?

I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around this. I appreciate your civil insights.

Yeah I think you're pretty much dead on about Jesus's teachings being meant to pull people away from what "God" really is (yourself). Jesus's teachings tells us that God is outside of us and needs to be worshiped and sacrificed for. God is inside of us, not outside. We need not make offerings and sacrifices except to ourselves. When we pray, our we not talking to ourselves? Our own inner voice that tells us what God is? Because it is us.

Christians like to think that they are monotheistic, when in reality they are very much polytheistic. They're basically doing the same thing that the ancient Greeks did, and assign different gods to different aspects of nature. Satan is the god of the underworld and evil, Jesus is the god of love apparently, and also God in general who made everything, including Satan (?), Gabriel is the god of death, etc...

And even within the polytheistic gods, there is more division. Within "God", there is Jesus...Father and son are the same person, simultaneously inhabiting a human form and being everywhere else at once, while calling out to himself from his human form....yet he is himself and also God but he needs to pray to himself in heaven...Does anyone else feel like the Christian concept of the Jesus-God is just a schitzophrenic psycho?

You cannot redefine what someone clearly means when describing their belief and then damn them by your stuffed-up redefinition.

There may be conspiracies and scandals perpetrated or inspired by organized religions but you will find no such thing in GOD'S ETERNAL WORD.==JOHN 1:1-4==

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.

4 In Him was life, and that life was the Light of men.

5 And the Light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not.

Originally posted by Kody27

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Kody27



Christians like to think that they are monotheistic, when in reality they are very much polytheistic. They're basically doing the same thing that the ancient Greeks did, and assign different gods to different aspects of nature. Satan is the god of the underworld and evil, Jesus is the god of love apparently, and also God in general who made everything, including Satan (?), Gabriel is the god of death, etc...

There is a good deal of dozy headed nonsense that goes on in the church. Just a great deal of poorly explained ideas and concepts.

As far as polytheism there should be no misunderstanding here from anyone that has studied the issues whether they believe it or not. Jesus was given all authority, buy His father, after His resurrection over all things below the earth, on the earth and above the earth. All realms. Even in the unseen realm He demonstrated total authority. That's the proper teaching there whatever one may believe. There should be no misunderstanding.

....Yeeeah except that everything you just said causes way more misunderstandings.

How could Jesus have been given authority, "by his father" ? I thought Jesus was his own father? I thought that Christians believed that Jesus and God were as one? That there was no separation?

So the act of God giving Jesus "total authority" over "all realms" (very vague) means that Jesus had authority over God, given to him from God, who is also himself?

Nothing you say could ever possibly make sense out of Christianity.

That quote "I and the Father are one" could be better translated as "I and the Father are in unity".

Jesus is a separate person to God the Father, they are just in total unity and agreement. The person of Jesus is part of God.

Think of it this way, you are using the internet for posting to this forum. The internet is made up of computers and networking equipment, including the computer you are using now. One thing can also be many. Every thing in existence that you know of and can sense is made of many parts. There is no logical problem with that in the syntax of any human language. If you have a problem with that...

The issue of Jesus Christ in very interesting because the Romans, Egyptians and Greeks all had gods that they claimed could raise the dead. Being able to raise the dead is a big deal as in relation to this soldiers in battle under the protection of such a person can be brought back from the dead, if killed in combat.

Either the Romans killed him because he would not cooperate or because they felt they could trust him because he was not Roman or Greek. In relation to any referent to the Romans making such an offer that is not in the Bible. So an interpretation of what happened is that Jesus Christ who was destined to be killed in respect to the old testament was killed because he was an Israelite.

After all Jesus supported the idea of one God and his culture acknowledged that position. His ability to raise the dead meant that he was an aspect of God and in relation to the vision of multiple gods?

That simply was a bunch of baloney and again to be clear. That he could do what he could do was evidence of that the Romans were wrong

In so far as Jesus being God that is related to the Mystery of the Holy Trinity and one way of interpreting that is to present that fundamentally human emotions are not subjective.

Any thoughts?

reply to post by GISMYS


See even in the beginning his first act was division. His nature was divisive from the start. Light and dark were incompatible, even as they were inseparable. Sounds like an eternity of struggle right there. But if he created everything doesn't that include the darkness? Or is the darkness something beyond his control?

Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by Kody27

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Kody27



Christians like to think that they are monotheistic, when in reality they are very much polytheistic. They're basically doing the same thing that the ancient Greeks did, and assign different gods to different aspects of nature. Satan is the god of the underworld and evil, Jesus is the god of love apparently, and also God in general who made everything, including Satan (?), Gabriel is the god of death, etc...

There is a good deal of dozy headed nonsense that goes on in the church. Just a great deal of poorly explained ideas and concepts.

As far as polytheism there should be no misunderstanding here from anyone that has studied the issues whether they believe it or not. Jesus was given all authority, buy His father, after His resurrection over all things below the earth, on the earth and above the earth. All realms. Even in the unseen realm He demonstrated total authority. That's the proper teaching there whatever one may believe. There should be no misunderstanding.

....Yeeeah except that everything you just said causes way more misunderstandings.

How could Jesus have been given authority, "by his father" ? I thought Jesus was his own father? I thought that Christians believed that Jesus and God were as one? That there was no separation?

So the act of God giving Jesus "total authority" over "all realms" (very vague) means that Jesus had authority over God, given to him from God, who is also himself?

Nothing you say could ever possibly make sense out of Christianity.

That quote "I and the Father are one" could be better translated as "I and the Father are in unity".

Jesus is a separate person to God the Father, they are just in total unity and agreement. The person of Jesus is part of God.

Think of it this way, you are using the internet for posting to this forum. The internet is made up of computers and networking equipment, including the computer you are using now. One thing can also be many. Every thing in existence that you know of and can sense is made of many parts. There is no logical problem with that in the syntax of any human language. If you have a problem with that...

With that logic then I'm just as much God as Jesus is. And that's what I already believed in the first place! See we believe in the same thing just in different ways.

No I'm just kidding, I don't want to be associated with your beliefs since they're batshlt crazy. But seriously, if you think a blonde haired blue eyed man from the middle east is God, then there's not much more I can do for you.

reply to post by Kashai


Any thoughts? Yes, that they couldn't kill him, and that he survived the ordeal even if only by a thread. Why couldn't they kill him? Because the God"conspiracy" was too powerful by which he was to see the resurrected life on the other side of the cross and tomb. In other words that Jesus perpetrated a type of reverse-sting, double bind / hoodwink on his enemies to confound them all, while at the same time taking upon himself the sins of the world as a ransom for many, and completing an ancient ritual prophesied from ancient times and yes even one that was mythologized in relation to the helliocentric system of moon and sun worship whereby Jesus can be seen enacting the ritual, and pulling it off, quite literally, to a t.