What if Jesus is the DECEPTION?

reply to post by Specimen

Aren't all Gods the deceptions? Especially with Abraham based religions, they are some what dual sided.

Especially gods stolen from thousands of years worth of pagan mythology and culture...

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The middle is where the beginning and end meet. If we are the middle then we are both beginning and end, the Alpha and Omega because the middle is where they both meet.

Gospel of Thomas
18 The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"

Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

There is no end if the beginning is the end and vice versa, which must mean that out spirit is eternal.

edit on 10-7-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Truth is Aleph, Mem, Tav. In the middle of the beginning and end is the water (mem). Baptism is our immersion into the water. At the end of the Matrix movie, they said, "For everything that has a beginning, it also has and end." In reality (as you suggest), it also has a new beginning. You must be born again.

reply to post by Jusvistn


Good question OP, if you think you are confused about who Jesus was don't be surprised to hear your not the only one, the early church fathers had a few different ideas that changed through the centuries .' At the first Council of Nicaea (325 AD), Jesus Christ was declared as God, "consubstantial" with the Father. At the Council of Ephesus (431AD), Jesus Christ was declared as only one person, though divine as well as human. At the Council of Chalcedon, almost twenty years after Ephesus, Jesus Christ was declared to be two complete natures, one human and one divine.' and of course at these early stages of Christendom the Bible was created into the book we have today, and a few Gospels did not make the cut (the Gospels of Thomas, Mary and Judas for example. The book of Revelation got in by the skin of it's teeth. ). Some of these Gospels have been rediscovered (there is still debate of there validity or their date of writing) but who knows what information has been lost to the ages. maybe some day an ancient parchment will be discovered which will clarify who or what Jesus was. To me he was a teacher to be admired, but I always go straight to the big fella with my prayers.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Truth is Aleph, Mem, Tav. In the middle of the beginning and end is the water (mem). Baptism is our immersion into the water.

The sanctity of water is most decidedly not a "Christian thing". Why do Christians have to have the monopoly on this stuff?

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Kody27

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Kody27



Christians like to think that they are monotheistic, when in reality they are very much polytheistic. They're basically doing the same thing that the ancient Greeks did, and assign different gods to different aspects of nature. Satan is the god of the underworld and evil, Jesus is the god of love apparently, and also God in general who made everything, including Satan (?), Gabriel is the god of death, etc...

There is a good deal of dozy headed nonsense that goes on in the church. Just a great deal of poorly explained ideas and concepts.

As far as polytheism there should be no misunderstanding here from anyone that has studied the issues whether they believe it or not. Jesus was given all authority, buy His father, after His resurrection over all things below the earth, on the earth and above the earth. All realms. Even in the unseen realm He demonstrated total authority. That's the proper teaching there whatever one may believe. There should be no misunderstanding.

....Yeeeah except that everything you just said causes way more misunderstandings.

How could Jesus have been given authority, "by his father" ? I thought Jesus was his own father? I thought that Christians believed that Jesus and God were as one? That there was no separation?

So the act of God giving Jesus "total authority" over "all realms" (very vague) means that Jesus had authority over God, given to him from God, who is also himself?

Nothing you say could ever possibly make sense out of Christianity.

Yea its all in there. The idea that Jesus and God Almighty are the same person is not supported by scripture. And yes there are those that are confused and perpetuate the confusion.....why that is may be another issue.....however scripture is clear that Jesus and the Almighty are not the same person but are father and son of the same nature.

As far as being one they are one in nature as far as a father and son go. Scripture is clear here as well.....why the confusion? Dumb azzes that don't know how to read and spew confusion because they cant wrap their brain around what they make hard for themselves anyway.

Now as far as Jesus having authority over God.....scripture is clear here.....God Almighty granted Jesus this position and that Jesus will give it back in the future. That's how much trust they have between themselves. It is part of Jesus showing that flesh can obtain without corruption. This grace is then extended to man in kind and reality through Jesus. This was part of the salvation of man process. Mans standing was very high before the fall, higher than the arch angles. When God took a form it was the from of man made in His image. Man was restored this way however the full measure of it will not be shown until the future but for now we have Jesus in His glorified human form to mediate for man.

Wow. It's scary how some people will go so deep to justify blatant contradictions and plain rubbish to suit their opinions.

So God made the universe and man, and all that jazz. Much later he manifests a "son" in the flesh through immaculate conception. Then he just tells Jesus to rule the universe, while what? God goes on vacation? Are you saying that God doesn't have supreme authority over man right now? I'm really not following you here.

So Jesus literally inherited authority over the entire universe and beyond from God? What the hell is God doing at this time? Is he just like floating around making other universes to rule and making other Jesus's to rule them and then expanding his inter-dimensional army in a bet he made with the Devil? Oh wait, I forgot he made the Devil too. Because before Lucifer's fall, evil was just random, or it didn't exist, or it was ruled by some, other, force. God himself maybe? Hmmmmm Idk, the idea of dualistic properties existing in one being has never been thought of before (Yin-Yang, Yo-Ga, etc...) God has always been both and will always be both, and will never, "pass down" his authority to a man in the flesh. That's just complete rubbish. In fact, the idea of God being this entity that feels the need to even satisfy humans in their own form is ridiculous. Grow up dude, the concept of "God" should include everything that exists in the universe, not a separate entity, but the pervading consciousness within everything.

reply to post by Jusvistn
[m================== BOTTOMLINE= Do you believe GOD'S HOLY INSPIRED(GOD BREATHED) WORD or do you allow satan to blind you?

I read something last night talking about 'the great deception' that stated the Grays made Jesus Christ.


(Somewhere on www.beyondweird.com)

reply to post by Jusvistn


How about how you can interchange freely the Archangel Michael with Jesus and God in several passages of the bible.


To simplify this, god could not fight, he reigned as Michael, when he decided to fight back he had to make himself human (jesus) and die in order to be resurrected as some sort of BA in red robes that can freely fight back against the serpent. (super saiyan god???)

Seriously



If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine....


Now where have I heard that before.......

reply to post by Jusvistn


The only deception is not "Jesus" is those that created Jesus to gain power and control of the masses, in other words is human need for an idol and to believe, in order for others to control, that is the biggest deception of all.

Repeat a message over and over for long enough and people will believe it.

Add guilt (pain), that we are all sinners and can never be anything but sinners, lowly humans idiots......

Sounds like brainwashing to me (bible), gives me a headache to read it, or any religious texts.

....I can't sleep because I have guilty feelings and feel uneasy (Sleep Deprivation), I feel this uneasiness because I can be nothing but a sinner, ever (Pain)........I don't understand how it is more people can't see religion for what it is, and then we have those who try to make us feel guilty for not thinking and believing the same BS they do....

The wishful thinking that is this supposed "Afterlife", and being told we will be forgiven no matter what, sounds more like permission to do whatever one wants and getting away with it.

We have permission to do anything we want with some guy in the sky giving us his blessing to do so.

Gee, sounds more like the Devil to me, and looking around this world it seems there is excuse to allow it to be the way it is cuz things will be better after we die if we just lay by our dish and allow the unrighteous to be unrighteous.

Religion is big business, just like the business it protects.

Man made religion, to control other men, if there is a "God", that entity really needn't comment because we could just as well never have showed up at all.

If there is a God, the only thing that God had to do was allow you to show up, the rest is up to you if you can get past the fact everyone else in the world in any position of power is fighting for control of you and your mind, and eventually your body, as you are a "HUMAN RESOURCE".

What a bunch of crap.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Truth is Aleph, Mem, Tav. In the middle of the beginning and end is the water (mem). Baptism is our immersion into the water.

The sanctity of water is most decidedly not a "Christian thing". Why do Christians have to have the monopoly on this stuff?

I am not simply quoting the Hebrew here. This is actually the Phoenician pictographs that originated the Hebrew. Find an older source if you don't think Abraham's language is sufficient.

reply to post by Jusvistn

For what it's worth, my two cents.

Jesus never claimed to be God. I believe the idea that he claimed to be God was a later interpretation or misinterpretation. Three of the four gospels claim Jesus said, "I am the son of man, the son of David." When asked if he was the Messiah he says, "What do the people say that I am? That is what I am."

That's some profound philosophy right there in my opinion. It is what other people believe you to be that makes you what you are to them. It therefore is philosophically incorrect to proclaim oneself a prophet or Messiah. These are titles that only other people can give, not a self proclamation.

So the question becomes, what is Jesus to you? If you believe that he is some nice old dude that had some fantastic philosophy and a beautiful outlook on life, then wonderful! That was the intended purpose. Follow his philosophical teachings and you will find much peace and love in your life. The same pretty much goes for the belief that Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God or God in the flesh. Follow his teachings and you will find much peace and love in your life.

The problem arises, however, when other people attempt to tell us what they believe Jesus is/was. This is one of those paths that we must take on our own. It is wrong for someone to make a claim of belief in your name, or to tell you who you need to worship as God. A common question I ask myself is, “What would Jesus do?”

reply to post by Jusvistn


You are correct. The new testament with the story of jesus was written as myth to control and influence the population, much like other ancient myths.

Jesus claimed that God was like a father. This analogy can be obviously understood as fathers are the creators of sons. And an artist could be seen as the father of his work. There for if God created this universe, he is our father, he allowed us all to be born, and we are aspects of his work. This I believe is how jesus would have claimed his relationship with God. He would have called himself God, because he believed he stumbled upon the mindstate the creator of the universe would want, he believed he saw the world and existence as a God would, and behaved accordingly.

Originally posted by Jusvistn
I honestly do not want to start a holy war or all out religious cyber fight, but am looking for real input.

I believe in GOD, I believe that there is an intelligent design to our planet, our environment and our species, but I truly struggle with the concept of Jesus as GOD.

I'm not saying that Jesus never existed, and I'm not saying that Jesus wasn't a great inspiration bringing GODS will and knowledge to us, but I find it difficult to worship a man when GOD says you "will put no other GODS before me." Essentially, is that not what folks are doing when they are praying and worshiping Jesus INSTEAD of God?

And though Jesus teaches these things, and then tells us to worship him..... what if he is the true deception in the grand scheme of things?

To me, Jesus is separate from God, and I have a hard time calling them one in the same, and I have difficulty with the God made flesh aspect that brings us to the whole Son, Spirit, Holy Ghost thing..... For me, to believe in the "one true God" means that Jesus would be no more than a teacher as what you would find preaching from the front of the church today. So I ask again, could Jesus be the Deception, and in his "teachings" be pulling the people away from God and into his own agenda?

I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around this. I appreciate your civil insights.

No. Jesus and God are one in the same but distinct at the same time. Here's what I mean. Picture God as this huge spirit or soul or whatever. Just a ball of soul. When he created Jesus to come down to Earth to save humans, he had to make Jesus human. So, he made a human and then took some of his "soul" and put it into this man (i.e. Jesus' soul was God making him God). Thus, once Jesus died and rose then ascended into heaven, he was still God but still in human form (as he went to Heaven in his physical body).

reply to post by Ryanp5555


I still don't understand. "God" is all-powerful. Omniscient. Omnipotent. Utterly infallible and incorruptible. Am I correct so far? The most powerful and pervasive and comprehensive force in the universe.

But then comes the catch: he's created a species with a few flaws. Why? Because he's a good businessman. He's a wonderful businessman. And what's the point of creating a product that doesn't need its producer? So he needs to give his creations a reason to lean on him for support. Turns out, their flaws are a little more extensive than he had originally planned. Or maybe he had planned them to be so extensive. Who knows? Either way, he's decided that he has the perfect opportunity to pull a little gambit he's had set aside for a while. It's best not to go himself, otherwise the story just wouldn't sound so smooth coming from someone who obviously shouldn't want or need such a pitiful species as the human beings. It just wouldn't look right. So he needs something that they can connect with, something that can infiltrate their ranks and hit them where they are weakest. He clones himself, sends the copy to earth, and convinces him that he is their rightful master and only wants what's best for them. And then his "product", the human race, decides to destroy his clones. They fell for it. They fell right into his trap. In killing his clone, he convinces them that he has made a sacrifice necessary to unlock the greatest gift of all - freedom from fear. They need only do one more thing to complete the process: surrender their souls, one and all.

My, my, what a marvelous little business plan. And it worked. Oh, did it work! There's the great deception for you. And you all fell for you because you WANTED to fall for it. Always looking for a reason to not be afraid or ashamed of yourselves, so you do everything you can to dissociate yourselves from everything in this reality that displeases your immature understanding. And your god serves as your anchor for that security blanket, keeping everything out, everything that frightens you, everything you don't understand. And you keep not understanding it.

And so, you keep being deceived. But not by a god, no. Not by any messiah. No, the beauty of this little magic trick is that YOU are the magician. My good people, you have deceived yourselves. And you will continue doing so until you stop being afraid. Of the world, of the unknown, and of yourselves.

TA-DA!!!

reply to post by IamJewish


Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.

What if...

What if our species was either created or manipulated (by DNA) by a race/being/species other than our own?

What if this race/being/species other than our own understood the intertwining of natural drives and the intelligence gifted to it, and approached said resulting species? Would they be considered anything but gods? Moreover, to guide these creatures, wouldn't deity worship be the correct choice?

What if there was an empire (Imperial Roman) that was violent, ruthless and on the verge of leading mankind down a darker path? Would not then a representative of the creator (choice of words here may be your own) be a good idea to correct said path?

Over two thousand years later, this same hybrid species cannot, for some reason, associate the deity concept with that of a higher order of intelligence. For example, there are aliens and we could grasp them as being smarter but by simply changing the name on the door to god or deity, we toss them out.

Even though Christ preached peace an global brotherhood, we set this aside because we fear the idea of someone being smarter than we are... or think we are.

A war against any concept of deity-based faith is a war against possibility... a battle where humanity denies itself an open window to possibilities for the sake of the questionable value of a self-pride we have never really earned.

If the entity we refer to as "God" created us and all things, that entity realized it made a really big boo boo when it witnessed what we do to one another and everything else in his/her name.

And that is why we never hear much from him/her anymore, he/she realized that a mistake was made and went someplace else where he/she would be safe from us and what we do.

He/she said Ooops, looks like I messed up, y'all are on your own, I'm outta here, Cheerio.

The reality of this reality is that it's always been up to us all along.

There is no "God Willing" or whatever necessary, it's whether we are willing to stop hiding behind imaginary beings who are supposedly going to save us from ourselves, and save ourselves from ourselves, ourselves.

All alone, all by ourselves......Scary!.

I think I've said that before in another thread.....

jesus was just a very wise and caring, spiritual man, who wanted to make the world a better place..
people went crazy and turned him into something he wasn't because that's what people do when you start talking about God..
if i was to say, "God told me to do this", i wouldn't be lying, but i'd be considered insane. it's weird, the universal mind talks to everybody, but you can't talk about it, wtf?


good morning by the way.