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What if Jesus is the DECEPTION?

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posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by arpgme
God said he was forgiving but he obviously doesn't forgive. In his eyes, If sin happens then someone MUST die, no forgiveness. No letting it go.

A least a Judge will show Mercy. God doesn't have mercy at all. A punishment is due (death).

edit on 13-7-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)


Reading comprehension matters. I stated that a penalty is due, and that God paid the penalty for us. That is forgiveness. Picking and choosing one portion of a comment, and pretending to not understand what else is said, is disingenuous. Mercy is what He showed in dying for you. If you want to mock that, be more honest about it.


Originally posted by Rex282
I've wrote this so many times here however it bears repeating because of the extreme falsity of what the many that "believe" propagate.


*blink blink* - What??


Originally posted by Rex282
Man is NOT a sinner BECAUSE they sin they sin because they are sinners....and this is the crux .The root of the meaning of sin is "to miss or fall short of the mark" the mark is perfection...translated from the word for maturity in most scriptures.


Wrong. Look at Romans 3:23
The number reference is 264. Click that, and you see this: the actual meaning
That says nothing about "maturity" as you falsely claim. The word is "hamartanō", meaning:

1) to be without a share in
2) to miss the mark
3) to err, be mistaken
4) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
5) to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin



Originally posted by Rex282
When the scriptures say Yahoshua(Jesus to the religious) died for our sin means something completely different than punitive.


Romans 6:23 - "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Ready to be accurate or honest yet?


Originally posted by Rex282
That is one of the reasons Yahoshua...*snip*


Who? The Hebrew for Jesus is Yeshua.


Originally posted by Rex282
All I'm saying is what Paul said.Have NOTHING to do with them .All they do is cause strife and division.


Paul spoke of non-Christian Pharisees, who spoke about being right, but acted badly. That has nothing to do with Christians witnessing to others, which he encouraged. It's clear that you have no idea of what you speak.


Originally posted by Rex282
Sin abounds in the religious mind..and fortunately for them they will also be cured and will not be condemned to the hell they judge others to be condemned to.


Christianity is about a personal relationship with Christ, not a religious practice. Any Christian witness can, and will, tell you this. All you do is toss out insults, with no basis in facts.


Originally posted by buddha
Jesus is the antichrist.
his name should be Emanuele.

and people worship a cross.
a symbol of pain and death.


No, people worship the Savior, Jesus Christ, who is God. The cross is simply a symbol, and a sign to others that we believe. It reminds us of the cost He paid for our sins, of how very much He loves us. Emmanuel means "God with us". One cannot be the Christ and the Antichrist. Your statement holds no logic.




posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


You know neither the scriptures nor the power of God.Your carnal mind is full of the foolishness of religion(belief which is what Christianity IS.It is not a relationship with God.There are millions that would disagree with you.You are the one who belittles folks .Telling them they will go to HELL if they don't believe the false doctrines of your religion.You have no substantiation of any of the doctrines you claim to be true just like the majority that believe IN Christianity....religion.Just as the pharisees believed in religion.

You don't even know what the scriptures mean.You are just parroting your church theology the same as the pharisee did.You condemn just as the pharisee did.You are ignorant of God just as the pharisee.Your only source is the Bible.Yahoshua accurate spoke of them and you when he said ."You search the scriptures Thinking that in them you have life YET you fail to come to me whom they are written of that you will be saved".

It is YOU that don't know the scriptures or Yahoshua(God IS salvation) at all.Always learning and never coming to know the truth.God has sent you a strong delusion that you would believe a lie...religion.You think you have a personal relationship with Yahoshua yet you don't even "know" his name(and I don't mean a spelling).As he said he didn't come to judge the world and neither do I judge you.You have judged yourself with your foolishness of religion.Your path is wide and the gate you enter through is wide and MANY will follow it.The mirror is in front of you but you are blind.However your eyes will be opened but not in this age or the one to come.It is truly a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God...not the one you worship that is only words in a book.



edit on 13-7-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by vethumanbeing


Jesus is God in the same way I am you are, everyone is, an expression of itself. He was in the 'business' of prostlitizing just as as you may be a lawyer/politican, lunchlady, or panhandler. Jesus never proclaimed himself god, just "aspect", and I dont have to read scripture to know this.



logarock
You don't have to read scripture to know this? However if you had read scripture, just to find out, you would know you were not dealing with a lunch lady or panhandler. So yea you haven't read His history.
By the way if we are all God in the same way does that mean we are all.....whatever/


No I do not have to read another mans interpretation of a Godform as you define 'scripture'. I am human and do not need the words/works of others to determine my own confidence in who and what God is concerning me, my path and continued enlightenment. However, I do use bound scripture (Bibles and I have 4 versions) as an Oracle and find it hilarious, the answers to my questions. The only true scripture is that of the NagHammadi, the Gnostic texts. By the way if WE ARE ALL Gods expression (heres the clue ITS children) we are all part and parcel of God, and need no primers to explain ourselves to ourselves. I see scripture as a banal attempt to reign in the unwashed masses, as if we could not think for ourselves--the whatever part? What is the point of the 'Book of Standards and Operating Proceedures'. vol.1 (still no appendages/updates) year 2013.
edit on 13-7-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 

No, that is the Biblical way of thinking. Death as payment for sin. That is why He provided a way that we don't have to suffer that death. This is all Biblical. You can do the research. There are many online sites available. Just be sure that whichever you choose, they are accurate in their Bible verses.
It is not Biblical that every sin requires that a person be put to death.
One example of someone not being killed for his sin is the murder of Abel by Cain, where is was actually a crime to kill him even thought it was known that he was guilty of murder.
So you are just making something up and then just saying it is "biblical", without giving any example from the Bible to show that is the case.

Jesus, being God, died to pay the penalty for ALL sins, past, present, and future.
It nowhere says that in the Bible.
There is an Old Testament verse that says that sort of idea of substitutionary death does not work,
Ezekiel 18:20
The one who sins is the one who will die.
edit on 13-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Maybe she meant in the sense that any and all unrepentant sinners will not have eternal life, but suffer the eternal death. That is in the bible.
edit on 13-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Maybe she meant in the sense that any and all unrepentant sinners will not have eternal life, but suffer the eternal death. That is in the bible.
That wasn't the point being made, it was this supposed principle that all sin incurs a debt that can only be paid for by death.
That was set as an axiom in order to go forward to the conclusion that this debt has to be somehow paid for. Then that is set as a new basis to go to further steps of logic.
edit on 13-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Isn't that why Jesus died? To atone for the sins of all who accept his sacrifice, sins that would otherwise invalidate their claim to eternal life? Jesus is the only reason that we don't reap death as our rightful reward.
edit on 13-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Maybe she meant in the sense that any and all unrepentant sinners will not have eternal life, but suffer the eternal death. That is in the bible.
edit on 13-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

AI

That is NOT in the scriptures.

1st how can someone "suffer" eternal death.Dead is dead..... no suffering.

2nd eternal means aion(eon)...age lasting.What most call eternal is without time.

3rd and most important as you already know.There is no eternal punishment of hell.

the religious have twisted words to fit their doctrine instead of knowing God.It is much easier to point to a "book" and say Thus says the Lord.....the bible.However to hit them over the head with the same book upside down is futile.

I don't believe any of the above statements I made are true I know they are true.Just for brevity sake and cutting to the chase.It is very obvious you don't believe the bible and for that you are correct.However your insistent bagging on the religious with snide comments is getting real old.You lose credibility ever time you do because it's potshots with no content of Truth.

There are very definitive reason the religious are wrong about what they believe.Misquoting the scriptures as a defense is a very poor strategy.I know you are much more intelligent than that.I don't see this as a war with them.They are this way for a reason.They need to hear the Truth before they can believe it then know it.

Personally I could care less what they(or anyone) says to me.I'm not against anyone I am only FOR the Truth.What drew me here to ATS was the motto .Deny Ignorance...and there is a helluva lot of ignorance here to deny.However attacking without Truth content is not denying anything.I am not trying to tell you what to do just pointing out what isn't working.Misquoting the scriptures or Anyone is always bad form.
edit on 13-7-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-7-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 


Yes it is in the bible. All sinners will eventually be burned to ash and be no more, as they have no place in God's kingdom. Read your revelations again. They will burn for a while, but they will be destroyed.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 


I'm pretty sure that the problem with Christian belief and as you have pointed out twisted the words is that you haven't actually read the bible fully . Most Christians spend a lot of time reading the bible . There is one things that Christians twist as you say and that is Pretrib Rapture .



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Rex282
 


Yes it is in the bible. All sinners will eventually be burned to ash and be no more, as they have no place in God's kingdom. Read your revelations again. They will burn for a while, but they will be destroyed.


AI

I KNOW that book inside and out.There is no such nonsense in it.First it is written in symbols and signs.None of it is a prediction or prophecy of past, present of future historical events.It is about one thing and one thing only.Yahoshua ....God is salvation...deliverance from the valley of the shadow of death.ALL written in symbols(metaphors) and signs(numbers).Why you keep quoting from books you don't believe in is illogical and useless...ESPECIALLY the Book of Revelation.The most misunderstood book ever written.

And not because it's complicated or some bad shroom trip hallucination but because the religious mind is attracted to it like flies to crap.(I am not saying it is crap though)..My suggestion to everyone is stay away from it...far away from it and all who try to teach from it.It will definitely be wrong.....VERY wrong...but of course that won't help.The religious mind thinks it can crack the code and know the mystery of Gods plan for the universe that of course has the majority of everyone BURNING to ashes in eternal Hell!!!.That or some wacked out "lightbeing "BS.

The bible will help no one be enlightened.It will only further confuse them in Babylon.That means those that believe it or don't.God is not words in a book..ANY book.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 


I will look it up tomorrow and get back to you on that.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Isn't that why Jesus died? To atone for the sins of all who accept his sacrifice, sins that would otherwise invalidate their claim to eternal life? Jesus is the only reason that we don't reap death as our rightful reward.
Here is a verse we can look at,
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
(2011 NIV)

The transliteration from the Greek is,
kai autos ilasmos estin peri tōn amartiōn ēmōn ou peri tōn ēmeterōn de monon alla kai peri olou tou kosmou

with the literal translation in English reading,
and he propitiation is concerning the sins (of) us, no concerning the sins (of) ours but only, rather and concerning all the world

To me, it seems clear that it is not saying that Jesus died for every sin, but that he did whatever this verse is describing, for the world. Did he die for all the world, or is the word propitiation here meaning a gift? (which is the original literal meaning) Think of the word, propitious, as in "this day is propitious to start your journey", meaning the gods are gracious to you on this day.
It depends on which direction the gift is going, where if you were a human offering a god something, you might place it on an altar and burn it. If it is God giving the world a gift, then He doesn't kill it, He gives us a living person, Jesus, to lead us from sin.
edit on 13-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 

There is no eternal punishment of hell.
It's going to be a big shock for you when one day you suddenly find yourself in Hell.
Do you have any idea what you might do in that situation?
Most people in Hell have no idea why they are there, or even where they are.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 11:36 PM
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Text





Dewey! Dewey ! Dewey! Did not Isaiah 53 mean anything to you ? Or did Revelations chapter 7 verse 14 just bounce off you ? Even those who are agnostics are trying to tell you your wrong about your interpretations . reply to post by jmdewey60
 



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

Did not Isaiah 53 mean anything to you ? Or did Revelations chapter 7 verse 14 just bounce off you ? Even those who are agnostics are trying to tell you your wrong about your interpretations
Do you mean as in A I?
He is repeating what he sees other people posting, not saying I'm wrong, just not in conformity.
Isaiah predicts The Lord's servant being killed.
"they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" means that they died a martyr's death rather than sin to save themselves from the tribulation.



posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Those are people who no man can number from verse 9. They have partaken of the Blood Sacrifice which Jesus himself did offer for intercession for sin .



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

They have partaken of the Blood Sacrifice which Jesus himself did offer for intercession for sin
I think that you should explain what you mean by this, since you made a very mean post against me on another thread, about how I was not accepting some "gift".
How do you "partake" of something where someone not supporting your cult doctrines does not "partake", and what difference could it possibly make, unless you believe in salvation by "correct" doctrine, which to me is the mark of the beast (accepting the words of men over the word of God).
edit on 14-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Lets see the Blood of Christ is the Mark of the Beast to you ?



posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



unless you believe in salvation by "correct" doctrine, which to me is the mark of the beast.


that is an interesting idea... considering a third of the world is Christian yet there is a "narrow path"

Could you explain a little further?




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