What if Jesus is the DECEPTION?

reply to post by vethumanbeing


"Big chance for rethinking of thread title missed should have been a second responder might have had time. No medals for losers, just a huge unwieldy blood soaked legacy left in his name. The victors write and profit from books (greatest story ever told I hear). If that was the intent all along, someone did some fine market research." Quote VHB

Empires take planning...ducks have to be in a row...90,000 in the Colloss. must have been an impressive aide memoire for any who thought of dissent...and the news of human food spreading through an empire of that power built it its own momentum...forget renditioning or Gitmo...just permanently remove any semblance of aberrant thought...that absolute power knows no bounds...men lashed and nailed to crosses is still an abhorrent thought, but only really by degrees (especially when set against waterboarding)...

The empire design studio was 'market-researching' on the fly...literature as the dissemination of concept followed (if even/and also adapting earlier versions)...there ain't nothing like a tightly packaged concept proposal, albeit built while running...

Å99

Originally posted by colbe
Jesus is real, He is God and man.

The world has the evidence of His Resurrection. The latest Italian study of the Shroud of Turin states, science cannot yet produce the UV rays that made the markings on the Shroud.

In an instant, isn't it beautiful, Our Lord went from being so tortured, not one part of His person free of cuts and bruises to His glorified body. Alleluia! Remember too...

The face cloth of Oviedo matches the blood type and markings on the Shroud.

That is kind of funny. Let's talk about the Shroud of Turin for a moment. It is a really bizarre case.

In 1988, 3 pieces of cloth from the Shroud of Turin were sent to 3 different universities in 3 different countries for independent Radiocarbon Dating. None of the universities were told what the cloth was from. All three universities got the same results, placing the origin of the shroud somewhere between 1260 and 1390 A.D.

The red stains on the shroud have long been believed to be blood stains from wounds that matched the historical description of Jesus' crucifixion. However, the red stains on the cloth were tested a number of times since 1979 and found to be tempera paint tinted red with hematite. No traces of blood were found on the shroud.

Let's look at the description of the shroud in the Bible. In John 20:6, it describes the shroud as several strips of linen. Not a sheet covering the entire body.

Historically, the Shroud of Turin did not surface and come into the possession of the church until the 14th century, which is the same time that radiocarbon dating places it.

reply to post by Logarock

And just what cult preacher would that be? Maybe the same one you listened to for years?

No. I was not ever taught dispensationalism in church. I did read Late Great Planet Earth back when that was a bestseller, which was my first exposure to that way of thinking, when I was about 18 years old.
That was the sort of thing that I was referring to, this big profundity ascribed to the so-called state in Palestine, calling itself Israel. The way this idolatry is normally justified is by misquoting Paul in Romans using a tree grafting analogy where for some reason, the believers in this scheme have a blindness that is settled over them to where they are not capable of reading the verse and understanding it the way that it is actually written, as if they were under a spell.
The actual text says that the believers in Jesus, the church, are grafted into the source of goodness, the same place as where Israel was growing from, the root. But people in this cult always read it as if it says that the church was grafted onto one of the branches, and that 'of course it could not have been cut off, otherwise what would the church be grafted onto?'
No matter how many times they read the verse, they always come back thinking it says exactly what they were told in their cult meetings.

Originally posted by akushla99
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

"Big chance for rethinking of thread title missed should have been a second responder might have had time. No medals for losers, just a huge unwieldy blood soaked legacy left in his name. The victors write and profit from books (greatest story ever told I hear). If that was the intent all along, someone did some fine market research." Quote VHB

Empires take planning...ducks have to be in a row...90,000 in the Colloss. must have been an impressive aide memoire for any who thought of dissent...and the news of human food spreading through an empire of that power built it its own momentum...forget renditioning or Gitmo...just permanently remove any semblance of aberrant thought...that absolute power knows no bounds...men lashed and nailed to crosses is still an abhorrent thought, but only really by degrees (especially when set against waterboarding)...The empire design studio was 'market-researching' on the fly...literature as the dissemination of concept followed (if even/and also adapting earlier versions)...there ain't nothing like a tightly packaged concept proposal, albeit built while running...Å99

This one only 2000 years, within the civilization gauntlets of say the last 400,000 yrs, luckily for the creator they crumbled to dust and very little remains of the bold/brash hairy mistakes. Akkadian, sure, some pottery/figurines, Pre-columbian sure same ol same old pottery/figurines that dont exactly explain the civilility of blood sacrifice. Oh the foul up, leaving ancient languages in tact clayform cuni niblets larger than a communal wafer (sumarian oops). Human food = human emotion for consumption by the 'gods'. The more strife and fear the better the meal, those cagy ones cannot understand the 'love frequency', its too high in vibration. Maybe that is why we must cloak/soak ourselves in love so as not to be eaten. This planet could be called a sort of Club Gitmo (morgue attached off site), then try to hide the fact of its 'powers in charge' are really running a fast track torrid and exteme health spa to reguvinate its citizens (sometimes killing them in the process of rebirth and reguvination clay masks turned into deathmasks quite by accident). The Empire design studio, was this reverse engineering from Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer in presenting the features 'Sparticus', or 'The Robe' or 'Ben-Hur' as in: did those in power time travel into the future and learn from us how to augment their made up civilizations, say, they looked at box office returns first and decided for civilization building; warning do not use any of Alfred Hitchcocks SCARE TACTICS. Too obvious, not sure he would go for the graffic crucifixion of a male prophet, would have to be a blond engenous Mary Magdeline type in their twenties named Tippi Hedrin, tasty morsel naked and writhing on a T form torture device.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Logarock

 

And just what cult preacher would that be? Maybe the same one you listened to for years?

No. I was not ever taught dispensationalism in church. I did read Late Great Planet Earth back when that was a bestseller, which was my first exposure to that way of thinking, when I was about 18 years old.
That was the sort of thing that I was referring to, this big profundity ascribed to the so-called state in Palestine, calling itself Israel. The way this idolatry is normally justified is by misquoting Paul in Romans using a tree grafting analogy where for some reason, the believers in this scheme have a blindness that is settled over them to where they are not capable of reading the verse and understanding it the way that it is actually written, as if they were under a spell.
The actual text says that the believers in Jesus, the church, are grafted into the source of goodness, the same place as where Israel was growing from, the root. But people in this cult always read it as if it says that the church was grafted onto one of the branches, and that 'of course it could not have been cut off, otherwise what would the church be grafted onto?'
No matter how many times they read the verse, they always come back thinking it says exactly what they were told in their cult meetings.

Well that's the sort of response I was looking for.

Well you certainly know there are a lot of problems here and the issue is a bit more complicated. We have promises made to Abraham concerning his decedents, as nations and tribes, that have not been vacated. We have prophesies that cant be used for the church, not yet fulfilled or vacated, that remain in effect for the decedents of Jacob. Looks like we have two clear dispensations running like two computer programs, at the same time, concerning the Church and the decedents of Jacob both culmination at the end of the gentile age.

Originally posted by allenidaho

Originally posted by colbe
Jesus is real, He is God and man.

The world has the evidence of His Resurrection. The latest Italian study of the Shroud of Turin states, science cannot yet produce the UV rays that made the markings on the Shroud.

In an instant, isn't it beautiful, Our Lord went from being so tortured, not one part of His person free of cuts and bruises to His glorified body. Alleluia! Remember too...

The face cloth of Oviedo matches the blood type and markings on the Shroud.

That is kind of funny. Let's talk about the Shroud of Turin for a moment. It is a really bizarre case.

In 1988, 3 pieces of cloth from the Shroud of Turin were sent to 3 different universities in 3 different countries for independent Radiocarbon Dating. None of the universities were told what the cloth was from. All three universities got the same results, placing the origin of the shroud somewhere between 1260 and 1390 A.D.

The red stains on the shroud have long been believed to be blood stains from wounds that matched the historical description of Jesus' crucifixion. However, the red stains on the cloth were tested a number of times since 1979 and found to be tempera paint tinted red with hematite. No traces of blood were found on the shroud.

Let's look at the description of the shroud in the Bible. In John 20:6, it describes the shroud as several strips of linen. Not a sheet covering the entire body.

Historically, the Shroud of Turin did not surface and come into the possession of the church until the 14th century, which is the same time that radiocarbon dating places it.

Hi,

You have to get with the times, 1979 and 1988 are a long time ago, the newest scientific studies done on the Shroud, there are two of them. The one I mentioned, the findings were released in December of 2011. Again, this Italian study shows the UV rays that made the marks on the Shroud 2000 years ago, still can't be produced by science.

The linen cloths, wrapped or thrown over, the marks are still there and were tested. The face cloth called the Sudarium is kept in a Cathedral in Oviedo, Spain. Blood type and marks match the Shroud.

Everyone, remember when the prophesied worldwide Great Warning takes place. Only God can show all souls on the earth every moment of their life (NDE like). He wants you to believe and find Him.


God bless you allen,


colbe

From the Douay-Rheims Bible ~

John 20:7
And the napkin that had been about his head, not lying with the linen cloths, but apart, wrapped up into one place.

To me the fundamental external practice of religion as an "outward looking thing" is the deception, and it really makes Love into something its not, for the metaphor is not like what we're being spoon fed. The cross, and a God who demands blood sacrifice for sin and sacrifices his only son.

But the inner metaphoric message is about perfecting self and awakening, opening the connection to our Source, the inner eye, and Love, Growing Up, Progressing.

Here is an example and I just saw more into it, and know it will help my sons, who tend to argue, and have lots of energy, so my youngest reacts quickly. This is a wonderful message.

www.spiritofthescripture.com...

Here Paul is speaking of baptism, but its not the same thing as the Church,and he speaks of Moses and the crossing of the red sea, with an army chasing.

The red sea bespeaks of turmoils, war, aggression, anger, harm, tendencies to react within us, but also, should we be in dangers, and targetted by the reactions of others, or dealing with hard relationships, family problems, and arguments amongst others. The red sea means alot, and can be tailored to anyone's life. And to anger and arguments.

We are pursued by impulses to give into our natural instincts or animal instincts even.

Yet it says:

“And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord…The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace” (Exodus 14:13-14).

Keep in mind that Moses is commanding the Israelites to stand still even as they are supposed to be walking across the Red Sea floor!

This aspect of standing still and holding our peace is the very act of meditation itself. This is the way to salvation!

The Psalmist reiterates this truth much later when he states:

“Be still and know that I am God…” (Psalm 46:10).

Can it be any plainer? The Bible is not a literal book. It’s a profound spiritual tool that teaches us how to transform individual consciousness.

To stand still and fear not, for Love and God/Goodness/Family is with us. To stand still and hold our peace, ie, to have calm trust and faith, and trust in Goodness watching over, and to meditate, to gain the Spirit of Peace and Love in all things.

reply to post by Logarock

Looks like we have two clear dispensations running like two computer programs, at the same time, concerning the Church and the decedents of Jacob both culmination at the end of the gentile age.

This is to me dispensationalist terminology, where I don't think that there is a such thing as a "gentile age" and that is something only made up to serve as the bases for their main theory, the one that supports the whole scheme.
There is a "time that the temple is trodden underfoot by the gentiles" but I take that as something that referred only to the amount of time that it took to actually "trod" it down, and that it wasn't an "age".
What we are living in now is the new age that started with the wider proclamation of the Gospel, the one that Paul said was now coming onto us.
From an Old Testament point of view, we are in the apocalyptic age, the one that they saw coming, where the boundaries of what is Israel was are expanded so as to accommodate the bringing in of the gentiles, but like the term "apocalyptic" implies, they did not know exactly how that was going to happen. And also as the term "apocalyptic" implies, there is no end to it, itself being the culmination of all things proceeding it.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
There is a penalty when we do wrong, both in the eyes of Man AND the eyes of God. For God, that penalty is death. A truly just God cannot simply pretend that sin didn't happen. Thus, a death is due. His death made ours (eternal, i.e. separation from God) not needed. It's like someone stepping on and being put to death in the place of another, but on a worldwide scale. That's LOVE.

God said he was forgiving but he obviously doesn't forgive. In his eyes, If sin happens then someone MUST die, no forgiveness. No letting it go.

A least a Judge will show Mercy. God doesn't have mercy at all. A punishment is due (death).

reply to post by wildtimes


I believe Lee Strobel's documentation can stand up to any fair-minded scrutiny.

I've never been very impressed with the rebuttals I've read to Josh McDowell or to Lee Strobel.

I'll try and check out your refs. I suspect they are built, as usual, on quicksand.

. . . or hanging from fantasized sky hooks.

reply to post by Jusvistn


Nice. Remember how he's shown in familiar paintings of his holding up his three fingers? that should tell people something,. Good job. I was wanting to start a similar thread, so now don't have to lol

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
There is a penalty when we do wrong, both in the eyes of Man AND the eyes of God. For God, that penalty is death. A truly just God cannot simply pretend that sin didn't happen. Thus, a death is due. His death made ours (eternal, i.e. separation from God) not needed. It's like someone stepping on and being put to death in the place of another, but on a worldwide scale. That's LOVE.

God said he was forgiving but he obviously doesn't forgive. In his eyes, If sin happens then someone MUST die, no forgiveness. No letting it go.

A least a Judge will show Mercy. God doesn't have mercy at all. A punishment is due (death).

edit on 13-7-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

I've wrote this so many times here however it bears repeating because of the extreme falsity of what the many that "believe" propagate.

Man is NOT a sinner BECAUSE they sin they sin because they are sinners....and this is the crux .The root of the meaning of sin is "to miss or fall short of the mark" the mark is perfection...translated from the word for maturity in most scriptures.
The creator God made Adam (which means man). in imperfection..immaturity..The wages of sin doesn't mean the penalty or payment punitively..it is the what happens to something that is not matured.Seeds are a good example of that process.They are potential trees.However to become a tree a seed must die or it will not mature.

When the scriptures say Yahoshua(Jesus to the religious) died for our sin means something completely different than punitive. The religious mind is obsessed with punishment and revenge.It seems to be all they can talk and think about.THAT is their GOOD news!Since "they" are not going to be punished it means nothing to them.They casually act as if whomever doesn't believe their doctrines of hell(and a multitude of other false doctrines) that will be their sentence.They will not lift ONE finger to help anyone.They act as if they are "loving" by warning you but if you don't listen they gleefully exclaim.... YOU will get what you deserve in HELL!

This is the most heinous blaspheme there is.To believe this is what GOD will do.They neither know the scriptures nor know God.They are of their father the devil as Yahoshua said.Yahoshua IS the savior of all whether anyone believes it or not.There are ZERO strings attached... no goofy prayer to say or abomination of desolation church to attend.The religious carnal mind is interested in only one thing. ..themselves.

That is one of the reasons Yahoshua ONLY railed on the religious.He never said a nice word about them..Not one.When a women was proved to be caught in the act of fornication he didn't condemn her but he railed on religious pharisee who did. The great "evil' of this world is religion and everything connected to it....EVERYTHING.The "many are called" religious are completely blind to this so they accuse everyone else that doesn't "believe" as they do.They condemn them with their false doctrines of men .They think they can become sinless by being religious!!... complete insanity.

All I'm saying is what Paul said.Have NOTHING to do with them .All they do is cause strife and division.They are always learning but cannot come to the know the Truth.Their path is wide(immaturity... sin) and the gate it leads to(belief in the doctrines of men) is destruction and their desire is to take as many with them.They are blind men leading blind men that will both fall into the ditch.They are clueless that Yahoshua was talking of Them when they think it was the "heathen".

Sin abounds in the religious mind..and fortunately for them they will also be cured and will not be condemned to the hell they judge others to be condemned to.

reply to post by Rex282

Man is NOT a sinner BECAUSE they sin the sin because they are sinners.and this is the crux .The root of the meaning of sin is "to miss or fall short of the mark" the mark is perfection...translated from the word for maturity in most scriptures.

I'm sorry...why do we want to be perfect? So I can paint a van Gogh on my first try? Play major league baseball and hit a homerun every time? Play in the NBA and singlehandedly take home the trophy without breaking a sweat? Read a book and rehearse it verbatim three weeks later without missing a word?

Wait, what do we mean by perfect? Absolute mastery of the physical universe? Or mastery of ourselves? Abstinence, chastity, purity, what? And why is that our goal? Are we just so sick or disappointed in being humans that we can't stand to behave like human beings? I don't get it.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Rex282

 

Man is NOT a sinner BECAUSE they sin the sin because they are sinners.and this is the crux .The root of the meaning of sin is "to miss or fall short of the mark" the mark is perfection...translated from the word for maturity in most scriptures.

I'm sorry...why do we want to be perfect? So I can paint a van Gogh on my first try? Play major league baseball and hit a homerun every time? Play in the NBA and singlehandedly take home the trophy without breaking a sweat? Read a book and rehearse it verbatim three weeks later without missing a word?

Wait, what do we mean by perfect? Absolute mastery of the physical universe? Or mastery of ourselves? Abstinence, chastity, purity, what? And why is that our goal? Are we just so sick or disappointed in being humans that we can't stand to behave like human beings? I don't get it.

perfect in the scriptures means maturity not PERFECTION..no one will ever be perfect.I say this in the same sentence

Man is NOT a sinner BECAUSE they sin the sin because they are sinners.and this is the crux .The root of the meaning of sin is "to miss or fall short of the mark" the mark is perfection...translated from the word for MATURITY in most scriptures.

God is repenting(changing us) we can't repent ourselves.Yahoshua never said that .He is making proclamations not giving orders.As I've wrote before this "perfection/maturity is a relationship..a ratio....that is signified perfectly in how EVERYTHING is made to grow...The golden ratio..Phi...
1:0.618...... or ..1:1.618.....to infinity..

.it is an infinite process that never resolves to perfection on the 1.618... side .God is unity ..ONE..all is in a ratio with God.
man is immature and still a beast..the beast of man.Its number is 666
1:0.666

that is the early stages of the calculation of Phi "through" the Fibonacci sequence.
2/3=0.666.....
5/3=1.666.....

It is the "mark" of the beast of man..falling short of perfection(The Golden ratio)

This only "signifys" what is happening.Numbers are Not God just as words are not God however NUMBERS cannot lie just as God cannot lie.They ARE the PERFECT language...and is common knowledge EVERYTHING can be calculated through numbers.It is figuratively what EVERYTHING is made from.God is not asking anyone to believe math nor even know it to calculate.GOD is doing it ALL.Everything is part of the equation that only God can sum.He has shown us in perfection what he is doing in a ratio(relationship) by irrefutable fact AND function.

1:1.618......

These equations are all through the scriptures ....hid in plain site.Not to "decode" but as a fingerprints left by God on the evidence.God doe not have to prove anything.and seems very adamant most times not to.I doesn't matter one bit what anyone believes ....God will do what he is going to do and nothing can or will stop or impede him.Not mans false "free will" or a satan or anything.This is Gods universe and God is 100% in control of everything.That is mans worse fear that THEY have ZERO control...the fact is ..resistance is futile.

My suggestion is as always.Try to enjoy this very short trip and drop the baggage at the door.

Jesus is the antichrist.
his name should be Emanuele.

and people worship a cross.
a symbol of pain and death.

Originally posted by buddha
Jesus is the antichrist.
his name should be Emanuele.

and people worship a cross.
a symbol of pain and death.

"People worship" Jesus Christ on the "cross." It is God's greatest sacrifice for His creation. We must remember.
The crucifix reminds you. An empty cross is empty.

Satan believes, a crucifix is used in the rite of Exorcism. The power of the Crucifix.

God bless you,


colbe

reply to post by colbe

Satan believes, a crucifix is used in the rite of Exorcism. The power of the Crucifix.

"Satan" does? So, now you are the spokesman for both Jesus AND Satan?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by colbe

 

Satan believes, a crucifix is used in the rite of Exorcism. The power of the Crucifix.

"Satan" does? So, now you are the spokesman for both Jesus AND Satan?

No... he is the spokesman for only one of them.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

There is a penalty when we do wrong, both in the eyes of Man AND the eyes of God. For God, that penalty is death. A truly just God cannot simply pretend that sin didn't happen. Thus, a death is due.

That was the Medieval way of viewing things based on influences from the Roman Imperial justice system.
Even in the Old Testament law, there were refuge cities established for wanted criminals, and there was plain banishment.
Also in connection with the Day of Atonement, there was the scapegoat that took sin guilt away from the habitation of men.
The sort of thing that you seem to be supporting by this presentation of logic is the substitutionary penal atonement theory that was originally written about by Augustine, a trained polytheist "pagan" who later in life took on the Christian nomenclature.
According to the New Testament, God can forgive sins simply by forgetting them.
What this theory you are espousing does, essentially, in my opinion, is to superimpose an unnamed authority higher than God, that must be appeased in its demand for payment for sins, where God has no choice other than to offer his son in order to meet the payment due.

edit on 12-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

No, that is the Biblical way of thinking. Death as payment for sin. That is why He provided a way that we don't have to suffer that death. This is all Biblical. You can do the research. There are many online sites available. Just be sure that whichever you choose, they are accurate in their Bible verses.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
The simple fact is that Jesus IS God. We aren't worshiping a person instead of God, but God Incarnate, come to die for us, in payment for our sins. The deception is people not understanding that simple truth. It's common, so understandable how you could ask the question.

Jesus is God in the same way I am you are, everyone is, an expression of itself. He was in the 'business' of prostlitizing just as as you may be a lawyer/politican, lunchlady, or panhandler. Jesus never proclaimed himself god, just "aspect", and I dont have to read scripture to know this.

You are totally, 100% incorrect. You most certainly have to read the Scriptures to see the proof of this, and it's clear you haven't done so. Your claims are completely invalid.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Heres the thing, he did this for all sins, does that mean only past sins of ones parents, ones being committed now by ourselves, including potencial sins of our children. Was it just a one time thing: I forgive Roman Overloards, draught, poverty, famine, the fact that the goats got out and ate the neighbors newly shirred wool, is this ongoing forgiveness, because if it is, I GET A FREE RIDE for any atrocities, murder or wanton behavior (all well described in the 10 Commandments) Id like. Does this act not nulify those commandments in TOTALITY?
Is that how any power religious or political justifiies its inhumanity to man (Jesus saves regardless of your intent, its on paper documented).

edit on 12-7-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

Jesus, being God, died to pay the penalty for ALL sins, past, present, and future. This is not an excuse to sin, however, as we are supposed to try and be obedient. We can and do make mistakes, which are forgiven, but the forgiveness isn't an excuse to deliberately sin, or a justification to be other than loving to one another. Those treating it as such will be held accountable. There is forgiveness, in regards to eternal destination, and there is reward, based on what we do. Plus, those that truly repent, and accept Jesus as Savior, don't do out willing and gleefully sinning. yes, they can sin, but there is a certain knowledge that they do so. Hope that answers your question.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Rex282

 

Man is NOT a sinner BECAUSE they sin the sin because they are sinners.and this is the crux .The root of the meaning of sin is "to miss or fall short of the mark" the mark is perfection...translated from the word for maturity in most scriptures.

I'm sorry...why do we want to be perfect? So I can paint a van Gogh on my first try? Play major league baseball and hit a homerun every time? Play in the NBA and singlehandedly take home the trophy without breaking a sweat? Read a book and rehearse it verbatim three weeks later without missing a word?
Wait, what do we mean by perfect? Absolute mastery of the physical universe? Or mastery of ourselves? Abstinence, chastity, purity, what? And why is that our goal? Are we just so sick or disappointed in being humans that we can't stand to behave like human beings? I don't get it.

Perfection would be a ho-hum/booring proposition. Everyone is Einstein, Picasso, Tesla all in one. Where is the challenge to strive for something unique, imperfection is what drives invention and creativity (problem solving). If there is no problem, there is no invention/creativity. The sweating thing, that would be a challenge for any glandular specialist/dermatologist; wait, Im not sure where my next door neighbors genious lies.