What if Jesus is the DECEPTION?

I wish some of you guys would explain things to the OP without using scripture.

When I was an Atheist and people were convincing me about Christ, I did not care that they quoted a book written by Men, inspired by God. What is like 40-some-odd authors total.........

Backing up what Christ was, meant, did, represented ....using scriptures to an Atheist/Agnostic type, doesn't mean anything ...considering you have other religions doing the exact same thing saying only they are right....

When Jesus said that he and the Father are One, he was talking about an experience......he was merged with God, but also still man ....a blueprint for others.

......On top of that, he's not the only one to say that. Quite a few different and various Saint's have also said that they experience being One with God.......

That would be the god/Father of this world... And considering the horrifying stuff one can read about in the OT... We can safely assume this god is a false God... and likely a fallen angel. Perhaps THE fallen angel... The god of the dead... As Jesus spoke of...

reply to post by Akragon


Humor me. To what are you referring to?
2nd line.
And 3rd line to be polite.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


It's been said that a fanatic

is someone who

[color=6699FF]believes something more strongly than YOU do

Labels hypocritically applied have a way of returning to bite one in the rear.
.

Perhaps THE fallen angel... The god of the dead... As Jesus spoke of...

reply to post by Akragon



Should I quote you as saying you were misquoted, or do you have some way of connecting those tenuous and unscriptual/non Jesus expressed opinions to the matter at hand?

reply to post by dominicus


Scripture annoys lots of folks . . .

--particularly those wanting to make Jesus over in their image . . .

--particularly those who chafe at the requirements of Scripture for an intimate relationship with Almighty God. . .

--particularly those who want to do their own thing in their own way--whatever feels good--and hang the details . . .

--particularly those who want to shred Christ's Deity, Resurrection, Position of King of Kings and Lord of Lords that the Father gave Him . . .

--particularly those who fail to understand that THE SCRIPTURE WILL OUT LAST THIS MULTIVERSE AND ALL IT'S STARS, PLANETS and what have you.

--particularly those who fail to understand that individuals will either build their lives on the FOUNDATION of the LIving Word and the printed Word

or

they will be crushed under the weight of the truths in it.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by dominicus

 

Scripture annoys lots of folks . . .

--particularly those wanting to make Jesus over in their image . . .

--particularly those who chafe at the requirements of Scripture for an intimate relationship with Almighty God. . .

--particularly those who want to do their own thing in their own way--whatever feels good--and hang the details . . .

--particularly those who want to shred Christ's Deity, Resurrection, Position of King of Kings and Lord of Lords that the Father gave Him . . .

--particularly those who fail to understand that THE SCRIPTURE WILL OUT LAST THIS MULTIVERSE AND ALL IT'S STARS, PLANETS and what have you.

--particularly those who fail to understand that individuals will either build their lives on the FOUNDATION of the LIving Word and the printed Word

or

they will be crushed under the weight of the truths in it.

When I was 3, I 'crushed' a kitten with the truth of my love for it...

2nd line...
3rd line...

Å99

Originally posted by Lucius Driftwood

That would be the god/Father of this world... And considering the horrifying stuff one can read about in the OT... We can safely assume this god is a false God... and likely a fallen angel. Perhaps THE fallen angel... The god of the dead... As Jesus spoke of...

reply to post by Akragon

 

Humor me. To what are you referring to?
2nd line.
And 3rd line to be polite.

All ye have to do is read my friend... Even Paul knew there was a god of this world...

The so called "god" of the OT is that entity...

you asked exactly who the god of the OT was God/father of.... the answer is "those who haven't realised they are children of God"

The true ONE that is...

Should I quote you as saying you were misquoted, or do you have some way of connecting those tenuous and unscriptual/non Jesus expressed opinions to the matter at hand?

Quote me any way you wish... Misquote me if you must...

it seems to be a trend lately...

In the old testment GOD judged mankind for his sin but in the new testment times after JESUS paid for our sins on that roman cross,believers can live their life as members of GOD'S family as sons.== 1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

reply to post by BO XIAN

Scripture annoys lots of folks . . .

When I was an Atheist (then eventually Agnostic), I wasn't annoyed by Scripture. I was annoyed by people who treated the Bible as if it was God himself. That the words were all written by God.

--particularly those wanting to make Jesus over in their image . . .

As many denominations as there are, they're all doing that

--particularly those who chafe at the requirements of Scripture for an intimate relationship with Almighty God. . .

What are the requirements again? For me, it wasn't enough to believe & have Faith considering I came from a background of logic/reason/science.

--particularly those who fail to understand that THE SCRIPTURE WILL OUT LAST THIS MULTIVERSE AND ALL IT'S STARS, PLANETS and what have you.

Before Abraham was, "I AM." ...before scripture was, "I AM", after scripture's gone, "I AM" The words and books about God, are not God

Ultimately what convinced me to give it all a go, was that there were Saints and various persons who were saying that they were experiencing God ...the details of which were just about Universal across the board. It was too hard for me to dismiss experience, since we all live life through experience....

....it was never words or books that convinced me.......

reply to post by NewAgeMan

But just to be clear, I don't think that Jesus "twinned" at the cross only to exit the tomb into a life of debauchery. It just wasn't in his character.

reply to post by GISMYS

THERE IS ONE "TRUTH" ETERNAL NON CHANGING! GOD is truth,light and love and there is no other,however there are are thousands of false gods most are demons. BEWARE!

Take your own warning.
Of course there is a God and there has been all along.
That does not mean that you just take the oldest book that you can find and say that this description of God is the only "real" one.
If you look at that verse in the so-called Timothy letters about scripture being 'inspired', you should notice it is talking about Paul's writings, not the Old Testament.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

But just to be clear, I don't think that Jesus "twinned" at the cross only to exit the tomb into a life of debauchery. It just wasn't in his character.

If he "twinned", as you so eloquently put it, then there's obviously another side to him that the Bible never told you about. And that kinda removes you as a reliable authority of Jesus' character, don't you think? I mean, if you ever were one to begin with.

reply to post by GISMYS

In the old testment GOD judged mankind for his sin but in the new testment times after JESUS paid for our sins on that roman cross,believers can live their life as members of GOD'S family as sons.== 1 John 1:9

It doesn't ever say anywhere in the Bible that "JESUS paid for our sins".
No matter what, we are still required to not sin, once we accept membership in the church.
There is a future judgment pending for everyone.
1 Corinthians 11:32
Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

The writer of the John letters was dealing with people who thought that their real self was somehow detached from their bodies so that they could not be held accountable for what "it" does.
It is not John telling his own group to sin all they want and that they will always be forgiven.
He is saying that Jesus can make them clean of sin, meaning being cleansed from the inside so they don't commit sins.

reply to post by jmdewey60

It doesn't ever say anywhere in the Bible that "JESUS paid for our sins".

Are you sure about that? Maybe you should look again.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

You do realize that he was talking to Jews in that instance right? He agreed that they were descendants and children of Abraham. Abraham's god was Yahweh, so him calling their father the devil was him calling Yahweh the devil.

I don't think that Jesus goes quite as far as that. I think that he recognizes that if people followed the commandments properly about loving God and others, they would be OK. Rather than that, they had made themselves as gods, as if they were born with a divine right to be part of God's kingdom. They were not to be ultimately part of the kingdom coming onto the world because the people that Jesus was addressing had only taken hold of the bad parts of the OT that instructed people in the legendary past to take an earthly kingdom by violence.
As for the person, YHWH, I think that Jesus saw that as a title for a person, whether divine or not, who purported to be representing God, with himself being the ultimate example of that type.

The god of the OT is not the God or Father of Jesus. We all share the same Father in an esoteric way, but some adopt others as a father from false teachings. We are all children of God, but some, knowingly or unknowingly, oppose him and adopt false gods as their father.

Jesus redefined God in such a way as to make any earlier explanation of Him obsolete.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Are you sure about that? Maybe you should look again.

You are referring to my claim,
"It doesn't ever say anywhere in the Bible that "JESUS paid for our sins".
You could look at this web site that Deetermined posted a link to, today, in the thread on "Why believe in a God who chose . . ."
www.openbible.info...
"126 verses on Jesus Blood"
See if any of those helps. Dee and SimonPeter seem to get some sort of comfort from that list.
The New Testament does not recognize a blood-for-sins transaction, and sees Jesus' sacrifice as being one by God, leaving us out of the loop as having any leverage to have our sins forgiven.
The way that you are forgiven as described by the NT is to stop sinning.

reply to post by jmdewey60


You are pushing your own private little war against the crucifixion of Christ . Have you ever read about Jesus offering Grace and Mercy through his own death and resurrection . As far as your future sin goes John 15 will lay in the rest of the story .

And yes I do benefit from the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for my sins . Even though he shed his own blood for my sins almost 2000 years ago I am partly responsible for his crucifixion . Some will let his act of love go for naught as far as they are concerned .
Truly there is only one sin that will send you to hell and that is to let his blood sacrifice come to naught and Not partake of the Gift Jesus offered us .

reply to post by Akragon

All ye have to do is read my friend... Even Paul knew there was a god of this world...

The so called "god" of the OT is that entity...

These were the people who practically beat Paul to death, and were his bitter enemies, who were zealous for something, but obviously not the real God who wanted everyone to demonstrate their loyalty to Him by believing in His son.
They were worshiping an obsolete system that was now operating basically as a business.

Originally posted by akushla99
When I was 3, I 'crushed' a kitten with the truth of my love for it...

2nd line...
3rd line...

Å99

When I was 3 I killed my pet canary to death. It pecked at me, and bit; hated me and so I loved it into oblivion, think I squeezed its life out one day (still feel badly about it). Somehow the final story was, my cousin gave it a bath and it caught cold, dead on the bottom of the cage. Whats going on with the three year old mindset? Godly power enforced at such a young age already. Off topic but does in a sense combine Jesus "greatest of all used shills" with innocent 3 year olds and their lacking of the understanding of what "animals Major" are. Jesus was not a deception, he was USED royally as a distraction, posterboy for Christianity. When he was ministering there was no term "Christ" Paul invented it, Jesus was not Greek, he spoke it, yes, but never claimed himself to be the Christos. This was a political manuvuer to elevate a common Rabbi into a messiah, (without the jurisdiction or sanctions of the Judiaic traditions). Who was behind it all. Just another free thinker becomes the clothing/bloody dressing for an upright and cross bar. NOT A CROSS, a T form. Who was running the show at the time. We know the bible was written afterfact. What was the point, and why are so many jumping on the 3rd rail to believe this guff that the human invented (the NOT SO TRUE) as has become very good story telling apparently.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

You are pushing your own private little war against the crucifixion of Christ . Have you ever read about Jesus offering Grace and Mercy through his own death and resurrection . As far as your future sin goes John 15 will lay in the rest of the story .

And yes I do benefit from the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for my sins . Even though he shed his own blood for my sins almost 2000 years ago I am partly responsible for his crucifixion . Some will let his act of love go for naught as far as they are concerned .
Truly there is only one sin that will send you to hell and that is to let his blood sacrifice come to naught and Not partake of the Gift Jesus offered us

You speak as if Jesus was the only one ever crucified..that was the common mode of death with the Romans at the time. I have trouble with the idea of Calgary, I would imagine he was crucified just like any commoner along one of the Roman roads; why make a speck-ti-cal out of some misanthropic lame brained prophet (never defended himself lamb to slaughter for mankind indeed). Who does that and why did not his God come to his rescue. That would have been/shown a kindness.