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Infrastructure Reform AZP

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posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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Interesting conversation, thanks for bumping this in another thread Charles.

I was reminded immediately of a story I read this morning about a man in Jackson , MS who has taken it upon himself to fix over 100 pot holes.

Pot Hole Robin Hood

I bring this up because if you read the comments from the link you will see people mention several things like the safety regulations for the crews who work on these projects, the cost of supervision, supplies, transportation, and about 10 guys to stand around watching 1 guy do the job which inflates the price. Some mention pet projects for city staff members, councilmen, mayors etc that prevent workers from doing the jobs most needed. Then there were other comments from people concerned about the man from the article being responsible for any damages from his repairs.

This all speaks to the ridiculous bloat of any Govt project as well as the legalese which prevents people from doing these things themselves. Not to mention the pettiness of people who want to point fingers when something goes wrong and expect compensation but refuse to do anything to help resolve the problem.

I agree with OP the money for a lot of these projects gets siphoned off the top and then put on the back burner. If they fixed all of the pot holes then they would be out of a job. It is insane to think that the world functions this way now.

Remember the road in China a few years ago that was built in record time because they threw something like 1 million people at the project? This reminds me of some of the public works projects during FDRs time addressing infrastructure.

Unfortunately I feel this is being done either

1. Out of greed.
2. Out of a desire to hasten privatization or
3. A means of Govt to keep people reliant on them for basic services.

Then again this could be an Atlas Shrugged kind of deal and the elite are hoarding everything for themselves. There is also agenda 21 to consider where its possible infrastructure is going to be left to die except in the mega cities and everything outside of those areas will be off limits or something akin to the reservations from Brave New World. In the mega cities the new wireless energy and other suppressed or emergent technologies will be used because they will all tie into the grid of the internet of things which will be used to surveil everyone.

I know you two are going in different directions but the OP brought that article to mind and I wanted to put it out there while the thought was in my mind.
edit on 11-7-2013 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
Tell me, should I be changing my focus to see this as a prototype or demonstration project? Have I been wrongly stressing the world when what you want is a small town where it can be shown that your ideas work?


You were already along all along


And, I think it would be appropriate to label it as both a prototype and demonstration. The prototype, however, will likely change as time goes on. "Perpetual beta" in software terms! And yes, using an existing small town, or building one anew is, I think, the best way to actually go about this. It is relatively "low risk," easier to accomplish, and can be a fantastic demonstration. One of the key aspects is the new outlook on housing, which will also be shared open source as well as a manufactured product.



^&%%# I'm starting to tear my hair out. Have you got a staff of 20 brilliant grad, or even post-doc assistants working with you on this project?

Every time you produce a thought, I see five different directions to go. Energy. Produced locally, or centrally with transmission. If transmission, physical or beam? (Microwaves guided and kept from dispersing by laser guides? I love science-fiction, but who knows?) If by physical intermediary, above or below ground?


I am not alone, but all of these ideas are of my own creation. What I really want to see is what other minds do with it all.


What is the summum bonum, the greatest good, for the various peoples of the world?


I would love to hear your answers to these questions as well.
I think the "greatest good" is how best to utilize the power of the people.


What attitudes and beliefs do we want the people of the world to have ingrained in them?

"Through competition we grow stronger, but not if we destroy each other in the process."


What method do use to instill those beliefs, and reinforce them through life?

I think it would be best to just do it with like minded people in a small community, and then let others also make the choice for themselves.


What social and governmental structures do we need to establish to provide protection, freedom, and resources, for the people involved?

I think that we essentially have a lot of the government systems "right," but how we use them is to control society rather than encourage and enable it.


Do we consider a pilot project first, with limited goals, and resources available? Or, do we plan for the world then introduce communities to the GUS?

I think that planning for the world is a bit much. Each community knows what is best for itself and I think different regions have different strengths. I think that showing how the core concepts work, and then letting everyone implement in their own way is less tyrannical, and it also would yield greater growth of the ideas.


Now, if we're looking at a smaller scale project, I can understand devising a better school system and persuading a state to try in a district. Or, a local energy network which is more efficient and accessible?

I think that each aspect, like education, could even be implemented without the other ideas. However, when used in unison, they become much stronger. I think constructing and maintaining the energy system would come with the construction of houses, but this is an area that requires further thought.


I'm sorry to be wasting your time


You are as much a part of this as I am and it requires teamwork to pull off. Every one on the planet is "in this together," but if we cant do this even in small communities, how could we hope to do it the world over? It has to start somewhere, and maybe, that somewhere is right here. Presenting ideas is one thing, but what is done with them is what gives them value. Something which I think all of us have our part in.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 11:52 PM
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This opens up for good conversation indeed. The priorities of the country are way out of whack to say the short of it. I hope your threads get more attention. In the meantime I'll be looking into the information provided.


www.abovetopsecret.com...
Good for promoting the thread.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 11:59 PM
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Serdgiam, might I suggest posting links to the other parts of the series in your signature? I would be interested in reading the rest.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by NihilistSanta
 

If you want to do a search, use the identifying letters AZP, he puts those in each title.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by NihilistSanta
I bring this up because if you read the comments from the link you will see people mention several things like the safety regulations for the crews who work on these projects, the cost of supervision, supplies, transportation, and about 10 guys to stand around watching 1 guy do the job which inflates the price. Some mention pet projects for city staff members, councilmen, mayors etc that prevent workers from doing the jobs most needed. Then there were other comments from people concerned about the man from the article being responsible for any damages from his repairs.


Thank you for joining Mr. Claus
And your contribution is awesome! Its amazing what one person can do when they realize it actually does benefit them, but perhaps not in a direct monetary way (save the cost of blown tires, I suppose).


Unfortunately I feel this is being done either

1. Out of greed.
2. Out of a desire to hasten privatization or
3. A means of Govt to keep people reliant on them for basic services.

Then again this could be an Atlas Shrugged kind of deal and the elite are hoarding everything for themselves. There is also agenda 21 to consider where its possible infrastructure is going to be left to die except in the mega cities and everything outside of those areas will be off limits or something akin to the reservations from Brave New World. In the mega cities the new wireless energy and other suppressed or emergent technologies will be used because they will all tie into the grid of the internet of things which will be used to surveil everyone.


I think greed has quite a bit to do with it, and even ties into the other two options. I think the question is; does it really satisfy that greed to the greatest extent possible? Like I have said, I dont think it does at all. All of these technologies are not inherently bad, but how they are used is a completely different story. Things like Agenda 21, Codex Alimentarius (sp?), etc are attempts at how to "best utilize the power of the people." But not only do they only benefit a few, I dont think they even benefit the greedy as much as it could!


I know you two are going in different directions but the OP brought that article to mind and I wanted to put it out there while the thought was in my mind.


Its not easy to stick on topic
I ended up splitting one "document" into several different threads, but they were all written as a single presented idea with many facets. Anything with the "AZP" in the title was originally one piece, and I remain unsure if splitting them up was the best idea.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 

Dear Serdgiam,

I hope you don't mind that I did a little advertising, this is too good to keep to myself.

And you're timing is impeccable. Here's a Washington Times article from January of this year mentioning three different experimental communities. From what I've seen, you might find Beck's particularly interesting.


Drawing inspiration from objectivist author Ayn Rand and Mickey Mouse godfather Walt Disney, Mr. Beck recently announced plans to build Independence, USA, a $2 billion, self-sufficient, libertarian city-cum-theme park that would mark “the rebirth of our nation through its own principles.”

When it comes to utopian visions, Mr. Beck isn’t alone.

PayPal co-founder and venture capitalist Peter Thiel already has pledged $1.25 million to the Seasteading Institute, a group that plans to establish sovereign, libertarian-minded nations on giant mobile platforms floating in international waters, a kind of “Octopus’ Garden” for the Gone Galt set.

Meanwhile, renewed national debate over gun control has brought media attention to the Citadel, a proposed walled community — think medieval stone castle, not suburban mechanical-arm security gate — of up to 7,000 residents centered around a firearms factory and inspired by survivalist philosophy and the writings of Thomas Jefferson.

The city of Independence, Mr. Beck said, would include a working farm, a downtown marketplace, a multifaith house of worship and a front gate modeled after the one on Ellis Island.

Perhaps most importantly, Mr. Beck also plans to build a film studio where his production company can create movies and television shows that stand apart from popular Hollywood fare by not “constantly assaulting all the things that we all stand for.”

www.washingtontimes.com...

And here's a link to Beck's site where it is described and a virtual tour provided.
www.glennbeck.com...

Lord knows, the country has billionaires, and our government is always read to throw a couple of billion at a good idea. (Or, unfortunately, even a bad one.)

If you don't mind, I'll call it quits for a while at this point to let other minds jump in. See you tomorrow.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by NihilistSanta
Serdgiam, might I suggest posting links to the other parts of the series in your signature? I would be interested in reading the rest.


Do you think its better as "Part 1,..." or using the actual thread names?



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:26 AM
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Glad to join the conversation. I will begin reading the other parts here soon. I have to warn you though I am a bit pessimistic for someone who is supposed to be so jovial.





I think greed has quite a bit to do with it, and even ties into the other two options. I think the question is; does it really satisfy that greed to the greatest extent possible? Like I have said, I dont think it does at all. All of these technologies are not inherently bad, but how they are used is a completely different story. Things like Agenda 21, Codex Alimentarius (sp?), etc are attempts at how to "best utilize the power of the people." But not only do they only benefit a few, I dont think they even benefit the greedy as much as it could!


I agree greed is the unifying factor here between the options I listed but I think at the top echelon of the societal structure there is a communal view of things. Greed is used on the low level minions to draw them in and control them either with profit incentive or blackmail. The very top of the elite pyramid is not concerned with wealth but with power and with some ideology that is causing them to put aside any differences to achieve a common goal. They put on a show of competition to divide and manage their populations. These people get to operate free of distractions while we run around like chickens with our heads cut off having to worry about things like necessities and jumping through the hoops they put before us.

If only we could get people on the ground levels to achieve that kind of unity. I think Charles was on to something when he mentioned religion. To me I see someone like Christ as being a socialist/communist and the downside to those philosophies or models is that you need a benevolent "dictator" to run the operation or it will only be a tyranny and become co-opted thru greed. Religion seems to be the only force that can unite people in a selfless manner. It is almost a cruel joke that the perfect system for distributing resources based on need is impossible to attain without an incorruptible figure running the show. Not that I am endorsing a socialist theocracy.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Serdgiam
 

Dear Serdgiam,

I hope you don't mind that I did a little advertising, this is too good to keep to myself.


I dont mind at all. In fact, that is exactly how I felt about it too, which led me to spend a lot of time thinking and then a lot of time typing.



Lord knows, the country has billionaires, and our government is always read to throw a couple of billion at a good idea. (Or, unfortunately, even a bad one.)


Thats an interesting link there. It does seem like there are people out there who may find these ideas appealing, which is very heartening! It doesnt sound like Glenn Beck has the actual structures in place to make it a truly different thing, more of an anti-product of sorts. That said, I think we all have a similar idea in our heads? If we were to actually step out and share how we might actually get there, I think we can achieve our dreams in a most literal sense.

Ill be plopping in bed soon as well
It has been a very long day.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 


The numbered parts are fine for me me thank you.

You may want to add a name to the first parts link to allow others who are unfamiliar to know what the parts are referring to.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:31 AM
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As an outsider, I have to say this is exactly what the USA needs to focus on.

While she is out in the world pursuing her empirical dreams, the land from which it all sprung is rusting, rotting and decaying away.

It all reminds me of terrible old Nero playing his fiddle in his palace while Rome burned really.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Interesting Charles, I was aware of Thiel's idea but not Beck's. This is a sign that something is wrong when people are trying desperately to isolate themselves from the rest of a failing society.

I have been pondering this for sometime but I foresee several initiatives along these lines and even expect that before the full global government is instituted we will undergo a period of isolationist and protectionist policies which is what will lead to a WW III style conflict to coerce the world into a global system.



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by NihilistSanta
 

Dear NihilistSanta,

I share your surprise that even in the US, people are rejecting, at least conceptually, the idea of this country as it exists. Add to this the survivalist movement, and there are quite a few people wanting out.

A global war? Maybe, but I think the takeover might very well be based on an economic collapse. As we sw in Greece, countries will sign just about anything to get the funds needed to keep their people from rioting and destroying the country.

My guess is that from here we go to zones of control, where maybe four or five countries or groups effectively control the world. Then we play the game of "Risk" on a global scale. I hope you and Serdgiam find the solution in a hurry, the future of mankind is on your shoulders. (Not that I want to put any pressure on you.
)

With respect,
Charles1952
edit on 12-7-2013 by charles1952 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 01:37 AM
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Interesting thread fellas. S+F.

Has anyone ever read about How Germany became so powerful after being crushingly defeated in WWI? I thoroughly believe that this country is headed for total economic implosion/depression soon. I also believe the only thing that caan really turn it around is another Hitler. Let me explain, I've learned quite a bit about this lately because I never understood how Germany became so powerful and how Hitler got everyone to view Jews as the enemy.

Germany was very broke when Hitler came to power. The treaty of Versailles dictated that the German people must pay every nations cost of the war and that amount was 3 times the value of all property in Germany. The German market plummeted because of private currency speculators and caused runaway inflation on a massive scale. Countless homes and farms were lost to speculators and to private (Jewish controlled) banks. Germans lived in hovels. They were starving.

On top of this there was a global depression. Germany was a total debt slave to the international bankers until 1932. That is when the National Socialists came to power. Hitler began a national credit program by devising a plan of public works that included flood control, repair of public buildings and private residences, and construction of new roads, bridges, canals, and port facilities. All these were paid for with money that no longer came from the private international bankers.

The cost of these various programs was fixed at one billion units of the national currency. To pay for this, the German government issued bills of exchange, called Labor Treasury Certificates. In this way the National Socialists put millions of people to work.

Germany did not have a gold standard in this manner. For every single mark that was issued, there was a marks worth of goods delivered or work done. This is how Germany got itself out from under the thumb of the International bankers. It took less than two years for the unemployment problem to be solved. Germany was doing quite well for itself. with no debt, and no inflation, at a time when millions of people in the United States and other Western countries (controlled by international bankers) were still out of work. Within five years, Germany went from the poorest nation in Europe to the richest.

Not too many people are aware he did this. TPTB and the banks don't want most people to know about this either I would imagine.

What America needs for things to get any better (in any domestic department) is a leader willing to cut ties completely with the banking cartels and do as Hitler did.

Sadly, I don't see this happening anytime soon. The banks, corporations, and politicians are so intertwined together thta they are almost the same thing.

Just my two cents on how to modernize/repair a failing infrastructure. Take a page out of history where it worked and implement it.



edit on 12-7-2013 by Cancerwarrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by markosity1973
As an outsider, I have to say this is exactly what the USA needs to focus on.

While she is out in the world pursuing her empirical dreams, the land from which it all sprung is rusting, rotting and decaying away.

It all reminds me of terrible old Nero playing his fiddle in his palace while Rome burned really.


You know, this nation of the United States was founded on some truly impressive principles. They also had the foresight to acknowledge things that would destroy it from the inside out, which is exactly what many feel is happening right now.

We fight wars for individuals profit that is never seen by the nation herself. I can understand the motivation to grow ones own bank account at the expense of others, but I certainly do not agree. I also think (as I have said, I know!) that doing it this way does not satisfy the greed to the greatest extent possible. In some poetic fashion, I think that by addressing these things, we can actually satisfy selfish greed by enabling others.

And as many on ATS know, all roads lead to Rome!



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by NihilistSanta
reply to post by charles1952
 


Interesting Charles, I was aware of Thiel's idea but not Beck's. This is a sign that something is wrong when people are trying desperately to isolate themselves from the rest of a failing society.


I think the way you worded this is very important, because that is exactly what is happening isnt it? People see issues, but their solutions involve becoming even more insular and divided. I think to truly realize our strength as a people (as humans), it is imperative to create an approach that can apply to every societal construct out there and one that only requires participation.

As it inevitably evolves, those societal constructs may change, but by coming up with one core principle that is timeless, we can continue to grow and prosper even when current systems would say there is no where else to go.


I have been pondering this for sometime but I foresee several initiatives along these lines and even expect that before the full global government is instituted we will undergo a period of isolationist and protectionist policies which is what will lead to a WW III style conflict to coerce the world into a global system.


This is the type of thing I am trying to avoid. Conflict may be inevitable, but I dont see many coming up with ways to avoid it.. they only put it off to a slightly further point in time in the future. By having an open source type of exchange though, it is something that can be carried out in *any* current society if only people would participate.

I think a global system is going to happen, but as with all things, what edge of the sword will it use? Will it be used to control society, or enable it?

ALL of us decide where this is all going to go on a constant basis, whether it is through action or inaction. I think that by fully realizing this for ourselves, we start to see that every single one of us has our responsibility for the state of the world (for better or worse)..



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


There are already "plans" in place to create exactly what you are talking about. Like many things, they are extremely verbose and use coinphrases to increase public acceptance. Agenda 21 is one of these things. It is supposed to be all about sustainability, but it doesnt actually address the issues at hand. It only controls the majority of the population while those at the top continue to do what they do even more freely.

That said, I think an important aspect of what I propose is that it also shows that satisfying personal greed in this way is not the most "profitable" way to carry it out.

And sadly, it seems your thread was closed and deleted Charles.
I have also asked ATS staff if they would like to participate in this, but have yet to receive any sort of response.. I hope that some are at least able to see the value in the possibilities that are presented, and ATS could itself become the "home" of where this all started. A home to the idea of replacing "my way or the highway" with "which road will get us to where we need to go, regardless of who thought of it?"



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
Has anyone ever read about How Germany became so powerful after being crushingly defeated in WWI?


I do not think it is any coincidence that when our economic system is backed by actual items of usability, that the economy tends to prosper. When it is fiat currency, and the value is more based on arbitrary assignment, then small groups who decide these things are able to rake in massive amounts of personal profit by marginal, almost unnoticable, adjustments to small interest percentages, derivatives, etc.


What America needs for things to get any better (in any domestic department) is a leader willing to cut ties completely with the banking cartels and do as Hitler did.


I think the strength of what I am suggesting is that it can be successful even within the current paradigm! As more and more individuals give their input, then its efficacy will continue to grow and eventually might result in a drastic change to banking "cartels."

Doing this directly, much like trying to change the entire world overnight, would likely not have the desired results. I am also not sure that involving hitler will be of benefit to the ideas presented, for various reasons. The main one being that while he might have been against the banking cartels, he only seemed to replace their systems of control with his own.

I think that by changing the way we use all of this technology and societal constructs is the best way to start, simply because every single one of us has the power to do that. There is no overthrow, or violent revolution. Simply using the tools available in a different way, that is consciously chosen by those involved and not imposed as a means to control



posted on Jul, 12 2013 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by Serdgiam
 

Dear Serdgiam,

One of the difficulties in putting human "systems" in place is dealing with the human emotions.

I know I should be rationally considering and contributing, but my mind is clouded by emotion at the moment.

And sadly, it seems your thread was closed and deleted Charles. I have also asked ATS staff if they would like to participate in this, but have yet to receive any sort of response.. I hope that some are at least able to see the value in the possibilities that are presented, and ATS could itself become the "home" of where this all started. A home to the idea of replacing "my way or the highway" with "which road will get us to where we need to go, regardless of who thought of it?"


I have asked for an explanation of the deletion, after reviewing the Terms and Conditions, but I have to admit I'm a bit miffed. I might even go so far as to say "peeved." (I'm trying to make it funny, but I take this more personally than I perhaps should. For some reason it hurts.)

With respect,
Charles1952




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