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What Whistle?!

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posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Samuelis


It's almost like your a conspiracy hipster.


Oh, I gotta remember that one!

And I know exactly what you mean... Lol.




posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 





Not only that. Snowden revealed a bunch of other stuff; including the methods of which the British use (spying on civilians through Optic Fibre cables).


By fiber optic cables I assume you mean capturing the upstream communications?

There's two types of spying going on. You've got the government getting companies to share their data, giving the government access to whatever data that company has on you.

Then you have stream tapping. This "whistle" was blow years ago by a TECH working at AT&T who informed us all that the NSA had built a data center, and working with AT&T and god knows what other telcos, now had direct access to the network traffic.

facebook gives them access to your timeline, messages, tracking cookies, etc. Capturing the traffic right on the network, which would essentially be a tap on the fiber connections that link the world, making the internet global, gives them everything. By working with the telcos, tapping those streams could be more useful than having you carbon copy every email you send straight to the government.

This is why when you are talking about any form of communication, you've got to be thinking end to end encryption. If the traffic isn't well encrypted, anyone listening can decrypt it.

Put it into context, HTTPS sites use encryption, certain messaging apps use encreyption. Guess what? Those major sites/ companies are the ones the government approached to get access to the data, because the stream tap isn't enough.

The people saying Snowden didn't really reveal anything new are wrong, he's put a face and name to at least some of the players, but anything beyond that is in fact, old news.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 12:38 PM
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1) The Freedom act was chock full of we are spying on you yummyness, that was my point. That's what I mean by what's new. We all knew this as fact but go on if you want to ignore that part.

2) WTF is a hipster?



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by ValentineWiggin
 


There is a book I read during my second deployment called Body of Secrets. It is actually quite an amazing book about the NSA but includes much more than just them. I think it came out in 2002 and had even mentioned in there that they mass collected data even before 9-11. Im kind of like you....I felt like we already knew but there was something about it....something about seeing how they reacted....then more leaks about that they are spying on everyone regardless and spying on other countries citizens.

I guess in my head I always felt they were looking for bad guys, but after a recent incident of my own I could see how they could manipulate any data. Think of every conversation you have ever had...imagine them taking one sentence of one of your conversations and taking it out of context. They could easily make you look like a fool or manipulate things to discredit you.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 03:23 PM
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I guess a person would have had to be familiar with the Freedom Act to know that it was true all along. The idea that most people have an interest in reading government documents in depth is remarkable to me.
Even so, I suspect that 'known the whole time' is just a retroactive term for not being surprised at the official confirmation of a conspiracy.

edit on 10-7-2013 by EllaMarina because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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People that pay attention to the world around them know these things, but alot of ordinary folks don't.

Snowden proved that Stuxnet was unleashed by the U.S. That was something nobody really had proof of, but many people suspected. Also countries like germany are pissy about Snowden proving that the U.S. is keeping tabs on a fair number of its citizens and politicians.

I think everyone knew it was going on to some degree, but nobody really knew the methods they used or the scope and scale of the intelligence monster alive and well in the U.S. As another poster said, others have come forward but Snowden actually had tangible proof. What was in the realm of "conspiracy" before in most people minds is now a proven fact. Just like so many other "conspiracies".

Even though your husband is obviously married to an ATS junkie, you said he had just gotten off work. Probably some regular guys (that pay no attention to these kinds of things) at work were discussing it with him and they were excited about it. That excitement wore off on him a little bit and then when he got home and you blew him off he probably felt dumb. I would'nt be surprised if he never wants to discuss any "conspiracies" with you ever again.






edit on 10-7-2013 by Cancerwarrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by ValentineWiggin
 


My turn to look at him funny. "I think you read this wrong wherever you read it, we already knew all that" and go back to my book.

The older people get the more they know that already. My reaction is the same. I went back to what I am doing.

No Chicken Little here. Thats what they want us to do though is run around and shout it from the roof tops. That way everybody is scared to talk openly.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by cosmicexplorer
reply to post by ValentineWiggin
 


There is a book I read during my second deployment called Body of Secrets. It is actually quite an amazing book about the NSA but includes much more than just them. I think it came out in 2002 and had even mentioned in there that they mass collected data even before 9-11. Im kind of like you....I felt like we already knew but there was something about it....something about seeing how they reacted....then more leaks about that they are spying on everyone regardless and spying on other countries citizens.

I guess in my head I always felt they were looking for bad guys, but after a recent incident of my own I could see how they could manipulate any data. Think of every conversation you have ever had...imagine them taking one sentence of one of your conversations and taking it out of context. They could easily make you look like a fool or manipulate things to discredit you.



I will have to find this book. Thank you for contributing to the thread, I see what you mean here



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by ValentineWiggin
 


My turn to look at him funny. "I think you read this wrong wherever you read it, we already knew all that" and go back to my book.

The older people get the more they know that already. My reaction is the same. I went back to what I am doing.

No Chicken Little here. Thats what they want us to do though is run around and shout it from the roof tops. That way everybody is scared to talk openly.


Exactly! No Chicken Little here either, I like that analogy.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by Samuelis
I'm always a little suspicious of people who don't see it as a good thing that this subject has been brought out into the light of day.

It's almost like your a conspiracy hipster.
And I'm always a little suspicious of people who are ready to deify someone who breaks a revelation that's already known. He never broke anything that wasn't already known. These systems, or the intentions of these systems, have been in place since the Clinton years at the very least. Snowden told you something without actually telling you anything, and that should , at the very least, raise some eyebrows. Ya know.... Question the nonsense that's being shoveled in your face. The mental gymnastics consistently being performed by the conspiracy crowd is quite interesting to watch at times. One moment the MSM is in on this subversion of public understanding. The next they're the beacon of journalistic integrity. If Snowden had anything of substance you would've heard very little about it. If he had anything worthwhile he would've made a little noise, and then there would have been nothing, a little blip on the radar. Much like that FBI Agent Stephen Ivans or Chris Dorner. A small bump in the road, but nothing that can't be fixed.Do I know for certain that Dorner or Ivans had anything substantial? No, but that's the beauty of it. Dead dogs don't bark.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by ValentineWiggin
 


Reality is an illusion dictated by the masses,its meant to nullify them into a false sense of sercurity.
People only want to believe what they do.Nothing more and nothing less.Therefore it has to be IN THEY'RE FACE,before they can see what others take for granted.You know that saying 'seeing is believing' ? Don't believe it,I've seen people witness something then deny it over and over till they convince themselves they didn't see it.My life has been more like the little boy in the Emperor's new clothes.People get mad at me because I stand up and am the one to say 'but the Emperor doesn't have any clothes on,look!' They don't want to see that.Instead they would rather act silly going along with others nonsense.'shrug' You know,whatever.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by ValentineWiggin
 
hopefully if anything it'll shut that guy Phage up for once



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by ValentineWiggin
 
hopefully if anything it'll shut that guy Phage up for once


Why would you want to shut up Phage? He knows everything about everything and is never wrong. Why would you ever want someone like that to be quiet?



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by GD21D
 





And I'm always a little suspicious of people who are ready to deify someone who breaks a revelation that's already known.


"known" != "officially confirmed"

by now...I would expect from you people to know the value of something being officially confirmed. There is no greater prize for a conspiracy site.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by Cancerwarrior

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by ValentineWiggin
 
hopefully if anything it'll shut that guy Phage up for once


Why would you want to shut up Phage? He knows everything about everything and is never wrong. Why would you ever want someone like that to be quiet?

this isn't phage's venue. he isn't concerned with small things like humans squabbling over trivial matters upon earth.
what happens upon this smote of dust suspended in a sun beam isn't enough to deserve commentary.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 03:12 AM
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reply to post by new_here
 


Well... While many already knew what was going on, there was no documentation proof nor certified witness, heck they even lied to congress in the related hearings. Even what Snowden told is only the tip of the Iceberg, why do you think that NATO nations are mostly ignoring the "new" evidence, because they already were in on part of it. The French have long been in a cold war regarding the US corporate espionage (mostly like the US is with China and Israel). What this does is prevent the US from claiming to be a good guy in public forums regarding how he collects intelligence from "allies".

I'm still waiting from the UK citizen and the US citizen to make something out of all that is now validated that the intelligence services of both nations scratch each-others backs to "legally" bypass national laws.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 05:09 AM
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I forgot who said this but "It's not what you know, but what you can prove."
Seems relevant to this. I know plenty of people that "know" all kinds of crazy #



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 05:10 AM
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You've defiantly summed up how I also felt when this news first came out. I was a milatary intelligence analyst and this was common knowledge to the every soliders who were not in the intelligence community. When it first broke I thought there was going to be more to it then was released becasue I felt everybody already knew this was going on. I actually felt relieved that I never said anything because I could have gotten in trouble! The only thing that I felt was knew about that information was the sheer scope of it all.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 05:20 AM
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Wire tapping is nothing new and began long before 9/11. My phone was tapped back in the 80s. Every time I would use the phone, you could hear the 'click' and knew what was happening. Had a friend who worked in the phone company and he said Ma Bell listening for years. I think 9/11 may have brought 'listening' to light. I have nothing to hide, but dadgum it, I will have my privacy!!



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by Bcs8484
You've defiantly summed up how I also felt when this news first came out. I was a milatary intelligence analyst and this was common knowledge to the every soliders who were not in the intelligence community. When it first broke I thought there was going to be more to it then was released becasue I felt everybody already knew this was going on. I actually felt relieved that I never said anything because I could have gotten in trouble! The only thing that I felt was knew about that information was the sheer scope of it all.


I question then why they tried to keep it "secret". Why not just tell everybody "we're watching everything you do" and then maybe people would behave and nothing bad would ever happen again









 
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