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Roswell crash : New whistle-blower (or hoaxer?)

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posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 03:07 PM
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The only issue I have with the notes is that the content of them seem to be all over the place. For someone who was allegedly good at writing notes down surely would have been even better at putting them in order. I'm not one to totally discredit a story and look forward to reading more (possibly) from the member who submitted these documents until such time the documentation is proven to be fake and the story a hoax. What we really need is actual, tangible evidence an alien spacecraft did crash in Roswell in 1947.




posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by freddieb
 


I don't.
Roswell is still very significant in my eyes. Sure, we seem to be chasing our tails there a bit, but all one needs do is take a quick glance at what was going on around the country in the days immediately before and after Roswell to see we had a lot of crazy stuff in the skies at that time.

Lots of good sightings all over the country right around that time.
SOMETHING happened. It is worth looking at, IMO.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

I purchase hazardous chemicals in glass winchester bottles and never had an issue with couriers breaking them.
I also purchase fragile laboratory glassware and never had an issue with it breaking during transport.
So I don't see transporting things in glass as an issue.


Have you ever had a glass container filled with fluid that could contain a 4ft tall body delivered to you in a wooden crate labelled as something else that doesn't require fragile handling, stored in such a way that if someone opened the crate, there'd be no intermediary packing peanuts, foam, styrofoam, newspaper,sawdust, hay, human hair, or whatever they used to back in the dark ages 70 years ago to prevent fragile items from breaking during transport?

Were you able to open up your hazardous chemicals and laboratory glassware and have it just sitting there ready to use without any packing material to obscure your view of it?



In regards to Glass Dessicators, yeah they are often shipped without any packing material and many glass bottles are packaged in a way that as soon as you lift the lid you can see the contents inside.
Another point worth mentioning is glass can be made extremely tough (eg bullet proof glass) or just by making it thick it is no longer fragile eg glass dessicators are extremely robust.

Another point which is important, is that glass is an inert cheap material which is the common material used to store biological specimens. They don't use steel or other materials because of contaminating the specimen they are trying to preserve. So glass is the logical material to use if they intended to preserve these bodies for further study.

Regarding personally seeing aliens: I have never seen an alien or heard rumours of Alien bodies (wasn't even born in 1947).

Do I believe this story? Not really, but it is worth looking into
edit on 10-7-2013 by BullwinkleKicksButt because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by AllenBishop

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

Originally posted by AllenBishop

Originally posted by Druscilla

a,) I have no direct military experience, so, one question I have is; Are personnel without security clearances allowed to handle material(s) above their security clearance, as in this supposed case for manual labor?


No. Absolutely, positively, NO. You have access to what you are authorized to have access to...



Maybe that is your experience, but I have personally seen classified materials/equipment being transported by people at lower classification levels.


And, I assume, the folks WITHOUT a security clearance, get free-reign to inspect, finger-foddle, and tag in Facebook posts, classified materials, with absolutely zero oversight?

If so, I'd let someone know. Always practice safe 'SECS...


edit on 10-7-2013 by AllenBishop because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-7-2013 by AllenBishop because: (no reason given)


I got no idea what you are on about.
Truck drivers usually don't have Top Secret security clearances in fact I don't know of one truck driver that does have a Top Secret clearance.

The guys at that base have already proven they are stupid beyond belief, I wouldn't discount the possibility of someone else at a lower classification than TS being able to view these bodies.
edit on 10-7-2013 by BullwinkleKicksButt because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by JayinAR... old men often like to tell tall tales. My grandfather is one such old man.
Now, if my grandfather told me this, and I brought it here where it was shown to be inconsistent front to back, I personally would laugh it off as a prank.


Logic???

Old men often like to tell tales.
My grandfather tells tales.
Therefore, if my tale telling grandfather told me this, I'd laugh it off as a prank.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 08:17 PM
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isaac, thank for posting

my personal observation in the roswell mania is that its pure theateric and filled with huckster and hoaxster milking everything connected to roswell and trying too hard to tie everything to roswell..

roswell incident happened im sure but the massive blowout and hype surrounding it and getting larger with eqch retellling indicates that the truth and fact already discarded and only the campfire stories left.

im sure everyone who serious in researching UFO phenomena and reading massive documented case all around the world will be rolling their eyes on thr massive focus on a single insignificant incident while forgetting others.

today, anything or anyone connected with Roswell are tainted and should be flagged as potential scammer/hoaxer immediately



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 08:23 PM
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I will never know why people thought cursive was a good idea.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by milomilo today, anything or anyone connected with Roswell are tainted and should be flagged as potential scammer/hoaxer immediately


Oh dear
I'm sorry this has received such a negative reception. I agree much is tainted connected to Roswell but my suspicion is that Corso had to have access to intel (whether based on fact or fiction) to write much of the early content of his book. In a live interview Corso openly admits he only studied the body 10 - 15 seconds but writes an extensive account of his detailed observations in his book. It is my contention that Corso had access to notes related to "Pats" versiion of events. Corso names this person Sgt Bill Brown.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by votan
I will never know why people thought cursive was a good idea.


It's a faster way to write. Non-cursive writing requires lifting pen from page for every letter.



posted on Jul, 10 2013 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by IsaacKoi
 

Why would anyone call an obvious living being a "Biologic"? That term is reserved for microscopic analysis, mostly. Chemical vs Biological? Anything bigger than an amoeba we can tell with our eyes if its "living" or "dirt". Theres no need to label it "biologic".

And why "Entity"? If its dead its a body, not an "entity". If its alive its called something else.

Terms used by intelligence are also typically vague and misleading, anyway. Hearing the code "extraterrestrial" muttered in back rooms won't turn any heads...

I call that reference (EBE) made up civilian or intel bunk to tickle our intellect.


Frank writes in notes: I was living in Hawaii at the time but we read a lot about UFO or US Government called - EBE. Extraterrestrial Biological Entities.

EBE is actually a very precise expression. (as oppossesd to UFO which gives no information about object)


Extraterrestrial: of or from outside the earth or its atmosphere

Biological: Relating to living organisms (as opposessd to inanimate objects)

Entity: A lawful or legally standing association, corporation, partnership, proprietorship, trust, or individual. Has legal capacity to (1) enter into agreements or contracts, (2) assume obligations, (3) incur and pay debts, (4) sue and be sued in its own right, and (5) to be accountable for illegal activities.

Law Dictionary: What is LEGAL ENTITY? definition of LEGAL ENTITY (Black's Law Dictionary) thelawdictionary.org...



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by Druscilla
Granted, the Army isn't renown for mental gymnastics or intellectual fortitude by any means, and there could conceivably be basis for argument on that point alone that they were indeed so stupid, they'd ship the most valuable discovery in human history inside a glass container.
Where, however, did they just happen to come across such a glass container? Are aquariums that could hold a 4ft alien body just sitting around Army bases just in case aliens happen to just fall out of the sky?
It's doubtful.

Compared to simply welding a steel box together or using something already readily available that could suitably be put to use for the purpose and secured, thick glass aquariums for transporting aliens in such a way that anyone can open a box and see an alien body floating around inside are likely in short supply such one would have to actually go out of their way to procure such a stage prop item.



May not happen often but I agree and was thinking the same - which led to me thinking what would you actually use if the need did arise.

Best I can come up with that would seem to work and fit in with the period and descriptions (vaguely) would be a drinks fridge with a glass door at the front and filled with a preserving liquid.

The crating may conceal what it actually was and certainly later descriptions may be coloured by what has been seen in media since (aliens in glass tubes) but in a hurry they would do the job. Obviously it is a bit of a stretch to try and explain why a common object could be misinterpreted but then it is out of context and someone could suppose that something a little less mundane was being used for the transportation.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by Bwise2

Oh dear
I'm sorry this has received such a negative reception.


You shouldn't be, at the end of the day you have brought what you had, warts and all, to the table FWIW and in such a way that you have provided a well respected member with what corroborating info you have.

Of course you could be hoaxing or the storytellers could be, but you would have been aware of that so don't be surprised if some call it that way.

Taking the circumstances described at face value then better that this stuff gets brought forward in this manner for whatever dissection / dismissal / validation can occur than the alternative.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by chunder

Originally posted by Bwise2

Oh dear
I'm sorry this has received such a negative reception.


You shouldn't be, at the end of the day you have brought what you had, warts and all, to the table FWIW and in such a way that you have provided a well respected member with what corroborating info you have.


Yes I'm grateful for Isaac's help in this matter. Sadly, the one thing that would change the whole perception o Frank's notes is providing original diary 1952. Comment's like 'convenient for a hoaxer' are not helpful. It's sad that these (historical) books have been destroyed about 2 years ago. I wish I had the foresight to ask to view them when they still existed.



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by JayinAR
 



And William Moore.


Well, you pretty much have to assume that all members of the "Aviary" were in cahoots or at least piggy-backed off one another, if you accept their claims and documents as a hoax. There's no doubt some of the info was falsified...but even from multiple sources, the main storyline and timeline is really consistent, with logical choices for personnel, and contains some info that was never before known and later verified (like the IPU for example). So, we're left with trying to figure out how MUCH of the story is fake, and if any of it is real.

I'm still cool with the aliens liking strawberry ice cream. (given the stated biology, it makes perfect sense).



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 10:25 AM
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What bothers me with the whole Aviary thing is WHY?
Why build such an elaborate hoax to hide something mundane?
Let us for example put two and two together and suppose that the Aviary hoax was designed to shield the testing of advanced aviation by the big military contractors. Again WHY?
Everyone including the Russians know we build secret aircraft. The Russians probably know more about the capabilities of these aircraft than the average US citizens because they track them with Radar and other means. So the Russians would be able to guess that based on the aircraft in service already (U2 and SR71,A12) that we would be working on aircraft that were only a generation better.
But if the Russians never saw anything more advanced than the U2 and SR71 overfly their airspace they would know that our development had not gone into service. Even the Blackbird and U2 came to light within 20 years of going into service. So why would we build a hoax to shield a technology that we did not have?
The logical conclusion is that we either do have the technology which is VASTLY superior and we have managed to keep hidden in spite of the prior leaking of aviation secrets, or that we know of the technology and that the Russians have seen it in action and we want them to think its ours even though its not!



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by The GUT
Hiya, Isaac!

What is the historical precedent for the term EBE or Extraterrestrial Biological Entity? When does it first show up in the ufological realm?


edit on 9-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

This was my thinking as well, I am pretty sure that this is only a recent terminology, as in.the past 10-15 years.... maybe i aam wrong, but I don't think I am somehow.
PEACE!!!

edit on 11-7-2013 by DARREN1976 because: spelling mistake...



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


Page two, directly before the description of a supposed body;

"There was about thirty wooden crates nailed shut. I open the the box, the contents enclosed in a thick glass container, submerged in blue liquid, almost as heavy as yelling(?) solution, the body was floating in the fluid."

I've a few problems with this:

1. We have 30 wooden crates reported. At the top of the page, not quoted, it's described that the crates are reported as being Top Secret.
a,) I have no direct military experience, so, one question I have is; Are personnel without security clearances allowed to handle material(s) above their security clearance, as in this supposed case for manual labor?
b.) If no, then, "Pat" would either have had a Top Secret clearance, This is all a fabrication, there was a mistake in allowing non-approved personnel access to sensitive material, or people without security clearance have access to materials above their clearances all the time.
c.) If this material was SO important, the body of an extraterrestrial at that, wouldn't there be a security detail guarding this shipment? The biggest threat concern to any security conscious agency or enterprise is the threat concern from within. With such a supposedly important shipment, one would think there'd be a security detail present at all times to prevent unauthorized opening of crates out of curiosity.

2. We have 30 crates, and the one with a supposed alien body just coincidentally happens to be the one that gets opened out of mischief for curiosity's satisfaction?

3. There's a body in a glass container filled with a heavy blue fluid?
a.) Who ships anything in glass cases? Glass can crack, or break regardless of how thick it is. What would happen if there was an accident, or the wooden crate got dropped?
b.) Who ships anything supposedly Top Secret in a container (albeit inside a wooden crate) that anyone can essentially walk up to, open and see the entire contents?
c.) A sealed and locked against tampering, and insulated against physical shock like a dropped crate steel casing would make more no-brainer sense for shipping such high-value perishable material.

4. There was a blue liquid?
a.) Did preserving agents like formaldehyde come in different flavors and colors at the time?
b.) What preserving agents were available at the time as well as being tried true that could be reliably counted on as a suspension and preservation agent.
c.) Any colored preserving agent would likely contain a risk factor for staining any material held in preservative suspension. It doesn't stand as credible that an alien body would be handled so haphazardly as to risk having it stained blue.

5. Shipment of biological materials, possibly a biohazardous risk in a crate along side other crates with other materials non-biological as if all of it requires equal rough handling, and peek a boo opportunities from every curious serviceman on the planet.

These are just a few problems found on page 2.
I've yet to read the rest, but with this many problems on just page two, I'm of the opinion this story is just another story.


edit on 9-7-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

Not to mention how heavy that crate would have been filled with liquid, have you ever tried moving a standard sized fish tank when you are cleaning it out? Extremely heavy, and that's just 4 foot wide, 1 1/2front to back and 2 foot deep?



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 05:24 PM
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The Roswell incident becomes diluted with more mystery and confusion with each passing revelation or new witness testimony. In truth, there are a myriad of explanations with their own separate variations; we don't know anything other than something crashed. Despite being the most iconic incident, we haven't come any closer to a universal agreement as to e.g. how many discs crashed, how many bodies, what happened to them etc.

There are better case studies than Roswell. There is just too much misinformation surrounding it



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by DARREN1976

Not to mention how heavy that crate would have been filled with liquid, have you ever tried moving a standard sized fish tank when you are cleaning it out? Extremely heavy, and that's just 4 foot wide, 1 1/2front to back and 2 foot deep?


Believe it or not they had forklifts in those days. See image from Clark Equipment brochure 1948



edit on 11-7-2013 by Bwise2 because: correction



posted on Jul, 11 2013 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by Shino
The Roswell incident becomes diluted with more mystery and confusion with each passing revelation or new witness testimony.... There is just too much misinformation surrounding it


But this is my point. Frank's notes, if we accept they were derived from 1952 Diary, give us some clue to sources of disinformation. Corso has given 'validity' to much disinformation and Pat is undoubtedly Sgt Bill Brown in "The Day after Roswell'. The problem is which came first: Frank pilfered his notes from Corso story OR Corso pilfered his notes from Pat's story. I have asked this several times to all you researchers:

WHO IS SARGENT BILL BROWN "BROWNIE" mentioned in Chapter 2 page 16 of TDAR M. Sgt. Bill Brown

Why does Corso make a big deal about how he met him through Bowling?

Before too many months had passed, M. Sgt. Bill Brown - the men called him “Brownie” - stopped me when I was changing out of my bowling shoes and said he wanted to talk. “Major, sir, “ he began, more than a little embarrassed to address an officer out of uniform and not on any official army business. He couldn’t possibly have realized that I was a draftee just like him and had spent the first few months in the service taking orders from corporals in boot camp. “Sergeant?” I asked. “The men at the post want to start up a bowling league, sir, have teams to bowl against and maybe come up with a team to represent the base, “ he began. “So we’ve been watching you bowl on Saturdays.“

According to Frank he also got to know Pat through Bowling (see notes page 5)

"....and it was 1952 when Pat was at Tripler Army Hospital, work in, Motor Pool. We became friends because he was on Tripler Bowling team and I had a team from Port Eng (Engineers) Tripler"


edit on 11-7-2013 by Bwise2 because: spelling




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