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Roswell crash : New whistle-blower (or hoaxer?)
page: 3share:
Originally posted by eso322
ETA: Self censored.
edit on 9-7-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Bwise2
The body is in a crate market "Belly Tank". Belly tanks were made from fiberglass developed during WW11. It can be surmised that the tank containing body was made from fiberglass not glass.
If we surmise the purported tank containing the supposed body was made of fiberglass, then, we'd have an issue of opacity.
Raw, unpainted fiberglass composite does not present any appearance beneficial to optics such that someone looking at an unpainted fiberglass tank filled with any fluid with anything suspended in the fluid would have difficult time enough telling what color the fluid is/was, much less the viscosity of the fluid and even further less any details of any thing that might be suspended within the fluid.
Details on page 2 clearly state "thick glass" preceding a head to toe description of a body such that even the number of digits on hands and feet have been tallied. The viscosity of the reported suspension medium is even commented on.
Thus, injecting fiberglass into the story over "thick glass" as reported and written would only complicate things all the further.
Either way, the story doesn't hold water on several of the points I've made, as well as others.
I suspect "Frank" got told some tall ones by whomever this "Pat" was, if indeed there ever was a "Pat" and your neighbor wasn't selling you wolf bait regardless his credentials. The wizened aged like to tell their stories, and oft enough there's some liberty with embroidery and revising personal history to include the exploits of others, and/or deeds that can't be verified or disputed except for supporting evidence like a service record that could mean anything and serve basis, backdrop, and filler for any sorts of kinds of fantasy.
reply to post by Druscilla
Speaking of Pat and Frank, Frank seems to get himself and Pat confused on a few occasions as well.
From what I quoted in my last post: "When Pat went on duty that night, they told ME about the crates or boxes."
I think Frank is an outright fibber.
Speaking of Pat and Frank, Frank seems to get himself and Pat confused on a few occasions as well.
From what I quoted in my last post: "When Pat went on duty that night, they told ME about the crates or boxes."
I think Frank is an outright fibber.
reply to post by Druscilla
You can get crystal fiberglass resin which set as clear as glass. That's the one that they set insects or whatever inside.Its very clear.
You can get crystal fiberglass resin which set as clear as glass. That's the one that they set insects or whatever inside.Its very clear.
reply to post by anonentity
Certainly, yes, now, but in the 1950s?
Over the course of the development and advancement of composite 'technologies', various polymer resin solutions have been experimented with over time.
Some, like the one you've mentioned are more for aesthetic projects, while other resins will give greater rigidity, strength, flexibility, or other properties to the composite.
We've also several options in choice these days between fiberglass, carbon fiber, kevlar and other fiber cloths for additional properties such as very high thermal tolerance, strength, and weight savings with CF, or ballistic resistance with kevlar, or whichever property is most advantageous for the application.
Additionally, there's vacuum chamber processes which further enhance the composite not only aesthetically through removal of air bubbles in the resin, but also in strength through elimination of air bubbles that could contribute to a material failure under stresses, or sooner over time.
Yes, there's a number of sundry options in composite materials available now.
The X prize winner that was later purchased by Virgin to later be rebranded as Virgin Galactic was a company named Scaled Composites. Composites are everywhere now.
Then? The technology was still in its infancy.
Certainly, yes, now, but in the 1950s?
Over the course of the development and advancement of composite 'technologies', various polymer resin solutions have been experimented with over time.
Some, like the one you've mentioned are more for aesthetic projects, while other resins will give greater rigidity, strength, flexibility, or other properties to the composite.
We've also several options in choice these days between fiberglass, carbon fiber, kevlar and other fiber cloths for additional properties such as very high thermal tolerance, strength, and weight savings with CF, or ballistic resistance with kevlar, or whichever property is most advantageous for the application.
Additionally, there's vacuum chamber processes which further enhance the composite not only aesthetically through removal of air bubbles in the resin, but also in strength through elimination of air bubbles that could contribute to a material failure under stresses, or sooner over time.
Yes, there's a number of sundry options in composite materials available now.
The X prize winner that was later purchased by Virgin to later be rebranded as Virgin Galactic was a company named Scaled Composites. Composites are everywhere now.
Then? The technology was still in its infancy.
Originally posted by mirageman
....... I myself am of the opinion that Roswell has been used for psyops purposes and that we have no crashed craft.
Yes - that could explain more than just Roswell. The UFO phenomenon provides a great cover story for all sorts of clandestine operations.
Do you want to imply that the UFO phenomenon was "invented" to serve as a cover story?
I like that possibility...yet...I feel it would mean giving our earth leaders...waaaay too much credit. Also...there are written records of a UFO phenomenon....way before we invented flight.
back to the subject at hand...I'm having a hard time even clicking on threads about UFO's. It's always the same thing. No evidence is good enough. No video is good enough. No whistle-blower is credible enough. If a gray alien came and bit us in the ass...we would yell....fake teeth !!!!!
The thing is...our culture is a culture of lies and fakes...makes sense we would call anything out of the ordinary...fake. Takes one to know one....
Anyway...thanks Isaac for making an effort about this...though I feel the material is, for all the above mentioned reasons, worthless.
p.s. cursive also doesn't help the issue.
Originally posted by Druscilla
a,) I have no direct military experience, so, one question I have is; Are personnel without security clearances allowed to handle material(s) above their security clearance, as in this supposed case for manual labor?
No. Absolutely, positively, NO. You have access to what you are authorized to have access to...
Originally posted by AllenBishop
Originally posted by Druscilla
a,) I have no direct military experience, so, one question I have is; Are personnel without security clearances allowed to handle material(s) above their security clearance, as in this supposed case for manual labor?
No. Absolutely, positively, NO. You have access to what you are authorized to have access to...
Another member would seem to disagree:
Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt
1a) It has definitely happened where I work.
Thus, we've one person saying that security clearances are ignored, and another saying that security clearances are absolute.
Either way, we've no records to confirm the security clearance level of this character "Pat", or any means to determine whether "Pat" is even a real person, or just a convenient fictitious vehicle for the perpetuation of some story telling by this "Frank" character.
Even taking question 1 and subsets out of the problem question pool, there's still plenty other issue to dispute this story as having much basis in reality.
reply to post by Druscilla
While they could hypothetically be ignored, there are repercussions for non-compliance.
That being said, a civilian janitor, working in a restricted environment would have to have a previously issued clearance in order to enter said restricted space.
Security clearances aren't handed out just for the party of it; these days access-control systems are well established, and are set up on an as-needed basis.
I am speaking strictly in terms of 2013. I don't know what kind of security measures were in place in the mid 20th Century.
While they could hypothetically be ignored, there are repercussions for non-compliance.
That being said, a civilian janitor, working in a restricted environment would have to have a previously issued clearance in order to enter said restricted space.
Security clearances aren't handed out just for the party of it; these days access-control systems are well established, and are set up on an as-needed basis.
I am speaking strictly in terms of 2013. I don't know what kind of security measures were in place in the mid 20th Century.
Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by Druscilla
Speaking of Pat and Frank, Frank seems to get himself and Pat confused on a few occasions as well.
From what I quoted in my last post: "When Pat went on duty that night, they told ME about the crates or boxes."
I think Frank is an outright fibber.
Problems are more related to punctuation. Edited version:
When Pat went on duty that night: "They told me about the crates or boxes....".
Please do not call Frank a liar -- he is only relating what he was told.
Originally posted by Druscilla
"There was about thirty wooden crates nailed shut. I open the the box, the contents enclosed in a thick glass container, submerged in blue liquid, almost as heavy as yelling(?) solution, the body was floating in the fluid."
I've a few problems with this:
1. We have 30 wooden crates reported. At the top of the page, not quoted, it's described that the crates are reported as being Top Secret.
yelling = gelling solution
I spoke to Frank about these issues today. The crates were not classified as "Top Secret" they came via road while actual classified "Top Secret" stuff was being airlifted. These were supposedly just ordinary old plane parts being delivered. The drivers put two and two together because they knew cargo came from Roswell crash site.
Now at the risk of inviting more cries of Hoax I asked Frank today how Pat could give description of crash site when he was at Fort Riley. Pat was at crash site and observing clean-up from a distance.(see page 4). Then after the clean up all military personnel were dispersed to other locations i.e. within 2 days. Pat sent to at Fort Riley.
Deleted duplicate post
edit on 10-7-2013 by Bwise2 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Druscilla
Originally posted by Bwise2
The body is in a crate market "Belly Tank". Belly tanks were made from fiberglass developed during WW11. It can be surmised that the tank containing body was made from fiberglass not glass.
If we surmise the purported tank containing the supposed body was made of fiberglass, then, we'd have an issue of opacity.
Raw, unpainted fiberglass composite does not present any appearance beneficial to optics such that someone looking at an unpainted fiberglass tank filled with any fluid with anything suspended in the fluid would have difficult time enough telling what color the fluid is/was, much less the viscosity of the fluid and even further less any details of any thing that might be suspended within the fluid.
Details on page 2 clearly state "thick glass" preceding a head to toe description of a body such that even the number of digits on hands and feet have been tallied. The viscosity of the reported suspension medium is even commented on.
Thus, injecting fiberglass into the story over "thick glass" as reported and written would only complicate things all the further.
I purchase hazardous chemicals in glass winchester bottles and never had an issue with couriers breaking them.
I also purchase fragile laboratory glassware and never had an issue with it breaking during transport.
So I don't see transporting things in glass as an issue.
Originally posted by AllenBishop
Originally posted by Druscilla
a,) I have no direct military experience, so, one question I have is; Are personnel without security clearances allowed to handle material(s) above their security clearance, as in this supposed case for manual labor?
No. Absolutely, positively, NO. You have access to what you are authorized to have access to...
Maybe that is your experience, but I have personally seen classified materials/equipment being transported by people at lower classification levels.
Another point, if these guys are stupid enough to tell the media they recovered a crashed flying saucer, then they are stupid enough to allow guys below top secret transport this stuff
Originally posted by anonentity
reply to post by Druscilla
You can get crystal fiberglass resin which set as clear as glass. That's the one that they set insects or whatever inside.Its very clear.
Yeah that is true.
Also, surfboards are made from fibreglass and the transparency is virtually identical to glass.
Once again a great thread Issac, thank you..
My take on this is simple...Hoax..
The reason, maybe I misread something but Frank was described as being senile or certainly getting there and now suddenly he's answering questions that seem clear as day yet he had even forgotten he had passed on the details in the first place.
If I've misread something (I'm very busy here) then apologies to Bwise, if not then its too fishy and contrived..
My take on this is simple...Hoax..
The reason, maybe I misread something but Frank was described as being senile or certainly getting there and now suddenly he's answering questions that seem clear as day yet he had even forgotten he had passed on the details in the first place.
If I've misread something (I'm very busy here) then apologies to Bwise, if not then its too fishy and contrived..
reply to post by Bwise2
Sorry man, but this story just doesn't add up.
I don't know if Frank is lying or you are, but someone is.
And it certainly wouldn't be the first time here on ATS.
Sorry man, but this story just doesn't add up.
I don't know if Frank is lying or you are, but someone is.
And it certainly wouldn't be the first time here on ATS.
reply to post by Mclaneinc
I thought that as well before I even started looking at the documents, but with respect to Isaac I didn't mention it.
In my opinion the story falls apart from the word go.
I thought that as well before I even started looking at the documents, but with respect to Isaac I didn't mention it.
In my opinion the story falls apart from the word go.
Originally posted by Mclaneinc
My take on this is simple...Hoax..
The reason, maybe I misread something but Frank was described as being senile or certainly getting there and now suddenly he's answering questions that seem clear as day yet he had even forgotten he had passed on the details in the first place.
If I've misread something (I'm very busy here) then apologies to Bwise2, if not then its too fishy and contrived..
Frank's health has deteriorated in the last few months after surgery. His memory is affected but he's pretty sprite for 93 year old. He doesn't remember giving me the notes in 2007 but he can recall incidents being discussed but he her really has to think hard to recall.
Well many have view that this is a hoax of some variety--so what can I say Still I would like to know if anyone knows anything about Sargent Bill Brown who seems to be Pat equivalent in Corso's book "The Day After Roswell".
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