Snowden confirms NSA created Stuxnet with Israeli aid

reply to post by dariousg


I hear ya, but even if this is considered as treason. That doesn't mean the US government did not commit an act of war by hacking. Not to mention insane to mess around with those plants.

Either way I don't understand why "he " is becoming the main debate and not the actions of the government. Why isn't the NSA put on trial.

Either way, he's just a puppet in a much larger game. Willingly or not knowingly?

reply to post by IamJewish

reply to post by juspassinthru

Stux was an act of war on a sovereign country.

Obviously you don’t know what war is.

One of these days, a "measured response" from one of Washington's victims will be an NBC attack on Washington .... or perhaps Tel Aviv.

There is nothing “measured” about responding to sanctions and cyber attacks with a NBC attack.

Thinking about it, I would fully expect for apartheid Israel will get hit first. After all, they seem to specialize in cowardly sneak attacks and threaten their victims with wider attacks and US involvement.

It's time for these schoolyard bullies to get a good swift kick in the #.

Which “bullies” are you talking about who make these “cowardly sneak attacks”??

China?

For the first time ever, it's on the agenda at a biannual meeting of U.S. and China leaders this week in Washington. Those talks come amid suspicion that China is stealing intellectual property by hacking into computer networks of U.S. companies.

www.pbs.org...


Or maybe N. Korea??

In March 2013, computers in South Korean financial, media and energy sectors suffered a sophisticated attack which took ATMs and websites offline. The attacks initially appeared to be a typical denial of service attack, in which the networks were simply swamped with traffic, making them unreachable.

www.usnews.com...


HOW ABOUT IRAN???

The U.S. banks’ websites, which were the targets of Iranian distributed denial of service attacks (DDOS), were severely hampered in their ability to provide the banks’ customers a smooth or even functional online banking experience. In short the DDOS attacks have made it very difficult to do any sort of online banking for the banks affected by the attacks. Among the victims are Bank of America, Citigroup, JP Morgan & Chase, and Wells Fargo, which constitute all of the biggest banks in America.

www.policymic.com...

reply to post by Senduko


Why isn't this guy dead?

Any normal person would have been kidnapped by a blackop contractor,suicided, or blown up by a stealth drone while in a car.

Was anybody, at any time, in any doubt about who the most likely authors of the Stuxnet virus were?

Snowdon is not telling anybody anything they wouldn't have put money on in a casino months ago.

I have to say that I am very surprised that Snowdon is taken as seriously as he is by the alternative media community, who seem to have bought completely into his revelations and their importance. I grant you that other more credentialed whistle blowers, the kind of people who were ostracized, had their lives threatened and did time as a result of their revelations, back him up. OK.

Maybe it's just that Snowdon is a Gen Xer who is being lionized by the cyberbaby generation and I'm a grumpy old man. Maybe I'm just punch drunk from 9/11.

It's just that my experience tells me to look in every horse's mouth, no matter how ardently youth wants to get on that pony and ride.

OK. Rant over. I'll shut up now.

It's the Brits that pushed the Egyptian intervention as well as the Libyan. The U.S. was a minor player in both. Bottom line is the Brits are the ones who messed up the middle-east after WW1, not to mention the Israeli mess in '48.

reply to post by nwtrucker


Can't really afford to make such divisions of the Zionist-controlled West and their collective attempts at controlled, at least expanding Middle Eastern influence following the 2001 staged attacks.

Obviously you don’t know what war is.

If I may quote from my copy of Clausewitz's "On War": "War is an act of force to compel our enemy to do our will." Therefore Stuxnet was an act of war, just like the Iranian nuclear scientists that Israel bumped off.

Wake up, man. Israel has realized that the US is going down the tubes, and they haven't made the inroads into the Far East to get another stooge for themselves. So they are busy knocking off everyone and everything that could make WMD's that might be used against them. I'm sure it will (quietly) come out that they were the ones who bumped off all of the microbiolgists in the early 2000's.

Originally posted by nwtrucker
reply to post by flice

 

Are you completely delusional?? I don't see the U.S. threatening to blow up anyone. Iran is and does.(Israel) I don't see the U.S. arresting opposition party members,(yet), Iran does. I don't see the U.S. sentencing Christians to death, (again yet), Iran does.

No.. the US isn't threatening per say... you just send your drones in and kill randomly men, women and children, but I guess killing in the name of the US is just another word for delivering democracy, isn't it? You guys are #ed up in the head and the biggest threat to the world as it is.

You overlook ONE SIMPLE FACT.......... if you werent' present in the middle east at all, there would be NO threat to the US at all. You are only getting all this hate because you keep meddling in someone else's business.

And please... what the hell is it with your country's love affair with Israel? No one on this planet owes Israel an ounce more respect than they do ANY other country on Earth. Israel is NOT special, even though they seem to like to think so. For my sake with that psychopath to Netanyahu behind the wheel they can crash and burn good and hard. Another prime example of a nation of people who don't give a # if their so-called elected leaders are pissing on human rights.

I don't see ANY support for Iran from ANY Muslim/Middle-east country whatsoever. The U.S. has backing from most Euro countries for it's stance on Iran.( even though the U.S. is stuck in the "bad-cop" role).

Unfortunately, many politicians still believe we need the US for some reason. I and many of my fellow common citizens have known for a long time that we don't need you guys. That last good thing you guys did was.... well, can't even remember seeing how the 2nd world war was really based on the destabilisation of Germany by the hand of France (read up..... the US send loads of money to France to make trouble at the German border). I'm not saying what Hitler did was right... just that the US approach to it was wrong. Then like now, you have NO authority to commit any actions anywhere else than you own soil, which you also seem pretty busy at creating a facist regime.

I don't see the U.S. supplying weapons to insurgents in Iran. Iran has sent munitions to Iraq and has cause multiple U.S. deaths, not to mention civilians and children, as a result and continues to do so.

Are YOU delusional? Everyone knows that you supplied weaponry to who ever you thought was most useful in the middle east for the last 60-70 years. It's pretty damn obvious that a truck load of weapons are being funnelled slowly through to the Syrian rebels (who by the way are completely segmented and out of their minds... no allegiance no discrimination. How in your right mind can you support those guys?

Letting that bunch have nukes is not an option.

Like I said earlier... you repeating this BS will not makes us believe that they in fact are seeking that kind of destructive power that the likes of Israel and US posses and which by the way the US used twice against the poor people in Japan to end a campaign that was viciously started by the false flag operation at Pearl Habour.

I'm not saying the U.S. is without flaw here, but if you think that somehow justifies an Iranian nuclear arsenal, then I repeat...delusional.

What non-existant nuclear arsenal are you talking about? You have no confirmed reports of such.... if you mention CIA mosasd or MI6, then we are just talking about Machiavellian terrorist organisations who's handlers are more interested in monetary / power gain than actual peace and safety.

reply to post by flice


First, let me rebut, "I" do not send drones anywhere. Second, it surely isn't "random". Third, I'd prefer a mossad type hit squad rather than the collateral damage incurred, deliberately by hiding behind women and children, that drones result in.

A Barrett .50 cal. would be preferable, IMO.

My stance, in general, believing 9/11 was a valid attack, is go get em no matter where they are and if the locals aren't inclined to assist then, "oh well".

Those that wish the U.S. ill go back a lot farther than the recent middle-east mess and even previous to getting sucked in in Vietnam by the French who were defending their Michelin rubber plantations.

The souls lost in N.Y. and the financial/economic losses give us the license, to go after them, again IMO. The U.N. is infamous for leaving matters grid-locked for decades, Cypress, for example, and hasn't been effective in any action that required any force.

As far as the "poor Japanese" are concerned, more people died at Japanese hands during the rape of Nanking in China than Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the fire-bombing of Tokyo combined.

The estimates of U.S. casualties to invade mainland Japan and end the matter was somewhere between 250K and 500K. Totally justified in my estimation. As far as the two cities go, both were military/industrial centers and valid targets.

As far as any "good" the U.S. has done, you seem to wear blindfolds. First, Germany declared war on the U.S., not the other way around. Handled it wrong? Garbage.

From that point forward, the U.S. forgave billions in loans to a multitude of countries, spent billions more on the Marshall Plan.

To this day, the U.S. has been first on the scene after natural disasters, typhoons, quakes, tidal waves. Even Iran has had U.S. planes supply water and first aide deep in Iranian territory, at least once, after a major earthquake and has recently rescued Iranian seaman in distress in the Gulf by means of military choppers, treating them on U.S. Carriers and returning them to Iran.

The biggest thing the U.S. has provided as the world's superpower is stability.

That stability has provided the Chinas and the Indias of the world to develop their own economies and produce a near "middle-class" where none existed before. Military stability, investment and technology are all parts that have been supplied by the U.S. and other western nations as well.

As far as the U.S. is only attacked because of it's intrusion into the middle-east, I say tell that to the Somolians, tell that to the Sudanese, the Filipinos. Are they "intruding" in Middle-east issues? Yet they are attacked as well..

No, it's just the excuse/justification. They NEED a "Great Satan". They invent different reasons for their incursions into different countries. All bogus/hyperbole, all to direct attention away from their own shortcomings.

I know you will disagree with my views on this. So be it.

Love for Israel? Merely the lessor of two evils is the opinion of many in the U.S. I agree with that sentiment.

*Fry meme*
Not sure if Snowden part of controlmachine or actual rogue truther

I personally think Snowden should be tied for treason, unfortunately I also believe a government body like the NSA is critical to help keep the freedom you and I have, to where it is. What are the other options, Leave Iran and North Korea and other rogue countries like that alone, let them amass a huge stockpile of Nuclear Weapons to hold the rest of the world at ransom, Maybe to annihilate the Jews or Israel, Let them Murder Millions in the name of religion overrun other countries and force them to convert to one religion or to be a slave to serve without question? Yes your Government obviously does things that are are inhumane and unconstitutional yes they also obviously tread on your rights occasionally or all the time, but because of your right to free speech is why they have to act out in secret in the first place, could you imagine the public outrage it would cause if you knew they where slicing open the testicles of some person or pumping some kind of drug into them to extract information that could potentially save the life of you, your child, family or your country, yes they are spying on their allies because it is obviously a hell of a lot quicker to get the information they need rather than waiting for moths to get a doctored report, yes your government is selfish and mainly has its own interests at heart, better than having another countries best interest at heart I recon, String the Idiot up because if people like him are allowed to get away with it others will follow his lead and no matter how much they twist it to make themselves sound righteous of their actions, all they have really done is put your whole country and its people at risk of attack from a fundamentalist, terrorist or some crackpot.

Originally posted by azza5540
I personally think Snowden should be tied for treason, unfortunately I also believe a government body like the NSA is critical to help keep the freedom you and I have, to where it is.

Head in palms LOL

Greetings ATS, well, I'll keep it short and simple, as this is my first post, and likely not many will read this.

My 2 cents on the subject:

I believe what Snowden is doing is right, and exposing our government's lies to the world is a just cause. However what I do not endorse is him exposing sensitive secrets such as this. Doing this is akin to bringing a torch close to a keg of gun powder. The middle east particularly Iran already does not like us, and we have already provoked them enough, sanctioning their economy, flying our UAV's into their space, etc. What Snowden just did was give Iran an excuse for an attack. This isn't the same as flying a reconnaissance drone into their space. He basically just told Iran, yep guys, we attacked you directly, we sabotaged your facilities. Snowden just gave Iran evidence that would convict any Vandal in a court in the US. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Now Iran has a more solid excuse if they were to launch a strike on Israel or the US, claiming self defense, and now they can refer to this as a shield. If the US can launch an attack on Iranian assets and claim it as a preventative or pre empting Iranian hostility, why now are they not allowed to?

Snowden drifted over a fine line. While I would champion his efforts and support them, him revealing US efforts against a known enemy are fading his image of the patriotism he claims. I certainly hope he doesn't keep this up. He fled to protect Americans rights against our own government, he should keep his focus on domestic issues and efforts of our government against us, not be telling our foreign enemies our efforts against THEM. He is giving the gov't justification to find him or drone his ass.