Snowden confirms NSA created Stuxnet with Israeli aid

Originally posted by seabag

Wonder if that will be the prevailing view if countries like Iran take up arms against their aggressors.

Would we even notice? Iran is a joke economically and militarily. A country with such a horrible record of human rights violations and exporting and funding of terrorism certainly should not be permitted to have nukes...and they won't.

I think you made a Typo Shouldn't that be America right there... Sure seems so, unless you live in another America. Parallel universe and such...

reply to post by StargateSG7


CONTINUED FROM ABOVE:

By displaying all my or someone else's HABITS on multiple large screens,
it can be PREDICTED what I will do next or PREDICTED WHERE I will be,
or it can be PREDICTED as to who YOU or I will be meeting at a future time
and place, AND IT THIS LARGE-SCALE graphical mapping and linking of related
activities and personal associates which is how METADATA can be used
to PREDICT FUTURE ACTIVITIES which can then be investigated further
by undercover field agents.

Think of it this way. If you are a thief and you keep using the
the credit cards you've stolen from your targets to buy $200+
Air Jordan sneakers at your local Foot Locker, eventually the
cops get wise to that fact and will ask that ANY transaction
at a Foot Locker that happens within one hour of a bank robbery
that is over $200 be tracked. (which VISA/MASTERCARD/AMEX can do
instantaneously) This means the STORE location would be known
where you bought the sneakers with the stolen card, and that
also means SECURITY CAM VIDEO could be obtained from that or
any NEARBY business or mall location to finally get a video
of you getting into your cheap Toyota Camry with licence
plate number XYZ-123 where the cops then arrest you at home,
peacefully or not, via SWAT team once they run the plates.

The NSA does the SAME THING! They track, store and CORRELATE
quadrillions of bytes of METADATA that consists of NAMES, TIMES,
PLACES, EVENTS which are all mapped and linked together to form
a Live Digital Map which allows an expert in psychology or a good
experienced field agent to PREDICT your future behaviour and activities
which are THEN investigated to their hearts delight in more detail
IF THEY THINK you need a closer look.

The IBM DB2 or ORACLE database systems they use are called
RELATIONAL DATABASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS (RDBMS) for a reason!
You can MANAGE the data by indexing it any number of ways,
link it all together and then GRAPHICALLY display a map
of all those indexes and links.

---

Echelon was a system STARTED in the 1960's to monitor
FOREIGN COMMUNICATIONS (faxes, telexes, phone calls,
snail mail, etc.) to and from the USA and any OTHER
ECHELON MEMBER. Echelon was a VERY BASIC information
capture system that was mostly Human-centric and relied
on computers as a more of a storage medium than as a
standalone data mining system.

In the 1990's, a wayward project from the FBI called
CARNIVORE came into being out of another software datamining
project called OMNIVORE (Love those names!) which for the
FIRST TIME could use relatively inexpensive computer workstations
to mine for nuggets of data gold (or in this case, the real MEAT
of a case) during Narcotics and Financial Crime Investigations.

See Carnivore weblink:
en.wikipedia.org...

After being ABUSED MANY TIMES for personal use by some
internal office personnel at the FBI and field agents,
Carnivore was shut down in favour of commercial datamining
applications and the source code plus key personnel were then
transferred over to BOTH the CIA and the NSA which then PROMPTLY
FORKED (changed the base source code) to meet their own surveillance
and datamining needs ALL THE WHILE INFIGHTING to see which internal
CARNIVORE DATABASE was to become the USA's OFFICIAL NATIONAL
SECURITY-CENTRIC SOURCE VERSION of all the data contained within.

PRISM is the same Carnivore but all dressed up and having
added much more A.I.and Expert Systems-like pattern-matching
capabilities to better AUTOMATE what was once done by
experienced agents or psychologists in terms of PREDICTING
and correlating times, places, events and people via
searching for the more obscure and looser links between
them. This PRISM is FASTER and MORE DATA INTENSIVE so
it investigates, tracks and links more variables to
give you a bigger picture in a faster period of time.

Only the USA has access to the PRISM system while
Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand TEND to use
commercially available software which ALSO TEND
TO BE plug-in modules or ADD-INS to IBM DB2
or ORACLE RDBMS systems rather than internal
custom-designed datamining code.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Senduko

 

Would you rather US just militarily attack Iran or use peaceful means of twisting their arm like Stuxnet and sanctions? Make no mistake, Iran will be prevented from aquiring nukes, so I don't want to hear "US should leave Iran alone" because that isn't an option anymore. I think Stuxnet was a measured response to Iran's refusal to be forthright.

What will UN do about it? US has been the victim of cyber attacks, too. What did UN do then?

edit on 9-7-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)

Well why should the USA have Nukes and then deny others?

What makes the USA so moraly special to have them? And the UK, France, China and Russia too for that matter.

If the USA thinks Nukes are so bad then they should set a example and get rid of there.

Until they do they have no moral high ground to stand on when they denounce others for makeing them.

I dont like the Idea of Iran haveing nukes but I dont like the USA, UK, Russia or China haveing them too.

I've posted this alot. Lauren Moret has given top notch testimony about this. By the way, Israel did a security upgrade on Fukushima computers just prior to the incident that is spewing deadly radiation out across the globe, and Lauren said that the west coast of north america, bearing the brunt of this via the jetstream and currents (ie we got it before Tokyo even), should have been evacuated.

Originally posted by seabag
Would we even notice? Iran is a joke economically and militarily. A country with such a horrible record of human rights violations and exporting and funding of terrorism certainly should not be permitted to have nukes...and they won't.

It is very telling that you don't note why Iran is currently like that. Now, that doesn't mean that Iran would have been the land of honey and lollipops, but it does show us what doesn't work. Why we continue to do those things today baffles me.

Originally posted by RoScoLaz

Originally posted by seabag " a measured response to Iran's refusal to be forthright."

yet we see no response at all, measured or not, to israel's consistent refusal to be forthright. hypocrisy in action.

Oh GAWG!

I knew it was only a matter of time before the antisemitism started. You can't have a good "bash America" thread without including some criticism of Israel; the two are like peanut butter and jelly.

Maybe if nations like Iran and Syria weren't funding the murder of people around the globe in the name of Islam we could get along. I think Stuxnet was a measured response. They should be grateful US, Israel an UN have exercised restraint in dealing with them. I don't think Bush and his merry band of neocons would have been so forgiving.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by RoScoLaz

Originally posted by seabag " a measured response to Iran's refusal to be forthright."

yet we see no response at all, measured or not, to israel's consistent refusal to be forthright. hypocrisy in action.

Oh GAWG!

I knew it was only a matter of time before the antisemitism started. You can't have a good "bash America" thread without including some criticism of Israel; the two are like peanut butter and jelly.

Maybe if nations like Iran and Syria weren't funding the murder of people around the globe in the name of Islam we could get along. I think Stuxnet was a measured response. They should be grateful US, Israel an UN have exercised restraint in dealing with them. I don't think Bush and his merry band of neocons would have been so forgiving.

My friend you are confusing my brain, you keep on saying country's like Syria, Iran but all I hear is America

Can you honestly say that your government does't do this? If so you really had a good drill sergeant.

Originally posted by seabag
[ We don’t take orders to disarm from any country

And this is why I hope China catches up to the USA in the next decade or two to add some balance to the world.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly and the USA is no exception.

reply to post by Senduko

I think you made a Typo Shouldn't that be America right there... Sure seems so, unless you live in another America. Parallel universe and such...

Very childish, OP.

If US was such a weak joke then why the thread? If US is so insignificant then why pay attention to Snowden? What is the reserve currency of the world? Which country has the largest military budget and arsenal in the world? Which country attracts more immigrants than all others? That's right!

Originally posted by seabag
Maybe if nations like Iran and Syria weren't funding the murder of people around the globe in the name of Islam we could get along. I think Stuxnet was a measured response. They should be grateful US, Israel an UN have exercised restraint in dealing with them. I don't think Bush and his merry band of neocons would have been so forgiving.

Pot, meet kettle.

We kill in the name of capitalism and democracy...they kill in the name of, who knows, whatever floats their boats.

As for maybe's, well, we could play maybes all day if you would like, but if we do, I would like to start with...

Maybe Khomeini wouldn't be in power if the US and Britain hadn't meddled in Iranian politics in the first place?

Or maybe, 911 would never have happened if the US hadn't trained Bin Laden...or maybe even if Russia hadn't gone into Afghanistan in the first place.

Lots of maybe's to be had!

Maybe what we need to do is (globally) kick our governments in the collective junk, so that they stop creating the enemies my children will fight tomorrow, in a short sighted attempt to placate themselves today?

There is no good guy in this debate, there is no bad. There is two sides of the same coin flipping endlessly in an attempt to shake the other off. Good luck!

reply to post by peck420

It is very telling that you don't note why Iran is currently like that. Now, that doesn't mean that Iran would have been the land of honey and lollipops, but it does show us what doesn't work. Why we continue to do those things today baffles me.

The only thing I advocate with regard to Iran is containment. I don't want war and nation building doesn't work. At this point, I'm only interested in keeping nations like Iran contained so they can only make small waves and blow each other up. As long as they pose no direct threat to US or its allies then we're doing enough IMO.

Alright, here's where I start to call BS on Mr. Snowden.

I can understand his original leaks, those are all awesome. But to claim having knowledge of one of the most TOP secret information technology programs since probably WWII is a bit much.

Methinks Mr. Snowden fears the media will stop paying attention and that would get him killed if the spotlight dissipated. So now he's just jumping to other 'high value' news stories to keep the beltway talking.

~Tenth

Originally posted by seabag
The only thing I advocate with regard to Iran is containment. I don't want war and nation building doesn't work. At this point, I'm only interested in keeping nations like Iran contained so they can only make small waves and blow each other up. As long as they pose no direct threat to US or its allies then we're doing enough IMO.

Containment won't work

Never has, never will. History is testament to that.

We have two options.

A) Accept that we are just as nasty as they are, and end this cultural war with extreme prejudice, now.

B) Attempt inclusion between Iran and the West, and hope that our culture wins via natural means.

I don't hold much hope for option B any more. My gut tells me that the divide between us and them has become too great for inclusion to work.

I am not that adverse to option A (call me what you will), but if that is chosen, do it honestly and quickly. There is no need to make our enemy suffer when it is not required.

Now, there is option C, which would lead into option B, and could work, but it would mean a couple more generations of tit-a-tat.

reply to post by seabag


How is disagreeing with Israel anti Semitic?

If they gave up there nukes which everyone know they have and agreed to inspections and stopped acting unilaterally without UN support THEN maybe I would take there concerns about Iran seriously.

But as long as Israel has WMD's then you cant blame Iran for wanting them.


I dont want Iran haveing Nukes but I cant stand seeing the USA and Europe take the moral high ground when they have enough nukes to glass the world.

reply to post by seabag


I think giver recent circumstances it clearly shows that the US doesn't have allies, who spies on their allies... who spies on their own people ffs?

Containment, When did the US become judge... Why is so that when every nation tries to evolve as a people, the average american mentality remains to be the alpha male and to "protect". its flock who clearly doesn't need to be flocked.


@Tenth : I agree, there is no way in hell he would have clearance for this info. I really don't think his a whistleblower, double agent perhaps.

Originally posted by Senduko
reply to post by seabag

 

I think giver recent circumstances it clearly shows that the US doesn't have allies, who spies on their allies... who spies on their own people ffs?

Containment, When did the US become judge... Why is so that when every nation tries to evolve as a people, the average american mentality remains to be the alpha male and to "protect". its flock who clearly doesn't need to be flocked.


@Tenth : I agree, there is no way in hell he would have clearance for this info. I really don't think his a whistleblower, double agent perhaps.

The US has many staunch allies...don't kid yourself, my country is one of them, and short of a US invasion, it will stay that way.

And allies have been spying on allies since the day after the first alliance. That is called prudence and due diligence.

We judge, they judge, we all judge. We are all equally guilty of this...ffs, this is a 2000+ year old cultural war. The names change, but that's about it.

reply to post by crazyewok

If the USA thinks Nukes are so bad then they should set a example and get rid of there.

Not paying attention to current events?

The Potus is gutting our nuclear arsenal meanwhile the ROTW is modernizing, and building more.

reply to post by crazyewok


You say you don't like Iran getting nukes, but also dislike the U.S. et al having them as well. Therefore, your view is the U.S. should let Iran have nukes...which you dislike.

Have you tried rebooting?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by crazyewok

 

If the USA thinks Nukes are so bad then they should set a example and get rid of there.

Not paying attention to current events?

The Potus is gutting our nuclear arsenal meanwhile the ROTW is modernizing, and building more.

Reduceing but not getting rid off. There reduceing to what a 1000 nukes? Thats still enough to obliterate a country.

Dont get me wrong I dont want a Nuclear Iran, but I cant see how the USA or the UK can take any moral high ground on the matter nor can I fathom why Israil should be allowed Nukes either.

Originally posted by nwtrucker
reply to post by crazyewok

 

You say you don't like Iran getting nukes, but also dislike the U.S. et al having them as well. Therefore, your view is the U.S. should let Iran have nukes...which you dislike.

Have you tried rebooting?

No I think the USA UK ect should concentrate on Nuclear defence and set out a long term plan for getting rid of them all together. Fact is if we have to use our WMD in a MAD situation we will all be dead anyway its only the elite in there bunkers that will survive. Best just put our money into countering them. Once we set a example then start forceing others to give up there nukes. At the very least we should strip Israil of them!


I would not be against handing over a Nuclear arsnal to the UN with a intenational agreement that they get launched at anyone that initiates a Nuclear attack. That would preserve the whole MAD balance without giveing individial countrys insane amounts of power.