In The Beginning: A story of Creation!

Many apologies to those who consider this thread to be late in coming. it is indeed late and is my fault. a thread i should have created at least a week ago, that would change the course of discussion surrounding Evolution 'Theory'. what i will present here will have to be unfortunately heavily abbreviated as the ATS outlet simply isnt sufficient with the page words limit and all. thus im going to keep it simple, and explain the answers to the questions which fill in the blanks as they are asked after the OP.

So in the Beginning all was dark and void

this means there was nothing. no matter, no life, and no earths.

then the Lord said "Let there be light" and light was formed out of the darkness.

now imagine this light being born in darkness for the first time. would this not be the same as the Big Bang Theory? taken directly from the bible.. we will carry on..

with the creation of light came the creation of matter in the form of Atoms. Forces were already present when matter was formed since it is the force or 'will of God' which 'forced' matter into existence. The atoms were created each carrying it's own attributes, but may also be assigned to a group based on it's behaviour or common attributes. Because of these groupings, various atoms from various groups could combine via 'the law of attraction', or 'birds of a feather'. the combinations thereof would create new and unique things.

Through the combination of Darkness (The Force) and Light, life is created. how you might ask. well.. a force, or 'will' is something which moves things. thus it can be viewed as a pressure upon an object. however, it is not a robotic pressure, but an intelligent and conscious form of pressure. it reacts and responds to communication or direction and does not stand independent of a conscious thought vehicle. it can be said that 'The Force' is living, and not like we would view 'a stone' compared to 'a dog'.

but consciousness is not the only requirement for life to exist by scientific terms. for something to exist it must be observed.. preferably by many. this is where the philosophical question "if tree falls in the middle of the forest and noone is there to hear it, did it make a noise as it crashed?" thus the creation of light, made it so that all visible things could come to exist. thus all things are formed by both the visible and invisible working together. out of the invisible, came the visible.

atoms are made up of light and a concentrated magnetic force which moulds them into being and in the desired property factors that differentiate a carbon atom from a hydrogen atom etc. they then proceed into the invisible. as mentioned before, combining various atoms and groups of atoms in various ways will create new and unique things. example: one calcium atom may be invisible to the naked eye, but as it combines with others of it's kind it develops into a calcium rock, which is totally visible. this particular grouping of atoms come together forming a materialized solid form of matter, where before, one calcium atom by itself is not considered to be solid matter.

now that we see how the 'will of God' works with 'light' to create solid matter, we can look deeper at the rules put in place by the Creator because it would become obvious that he created multiple types of atoms for a reason. and how those atoms interact with eachother will reveal his reasoning for the construct. we look around and we see mountains, and rocks, sand which on the beaches are like tiny shells and other pretty arrangements when magnified. And we also see life, living creatures and man! But we still have an invisible aspect and that is in the invisible gases that sustain us within this atmosphere. it can be said that this environment is hospitable for life, having the right amount of air and and atmospheric pressure to sustain life, which requires invisible gases driven by invisible forces. by Accepting God we already accept that these forces are intelligently guided.

further yet, some combinations of atoms will create living organisms. what is a living organism? a living organism is a thing which has achieved it's own conscious footprint. an 'identity', which has requirements like seeking food for sustenance, reproduction etc. it is 'conscious', as it reacts with it's environment and has appropriate sensors for it's computational environment, and communicates, as it seeks a mate communication is a sexual act. where two living organisms of male and female seek to link with eachother and data is transmitted and received Also, seeing is communication, as well touching etc.

God made Adam out of the Soil. but what soil? many believe this in the bible to be regular soil of the earth. which it is on a very low interpretive level. but, has a much deeper meaning. Remember Atoms are made of 'light and will' and thus contain what is attributed by science to be termed.. 'Energy' - Because there is both 'light and intention' or at least ' a force which seems to have created something orderly out of random' (lol). And also remember that life is formed out of a specific combination of atoms. Thru spiritual eyes, all of matter can be seen in energy form and radiating light, like what God sees it is of the realm unseen to most men. sort of like seeing all the atoms for what they really are. each a little piece of God's will encapsulated and thus radiating brilliant white light. Thus the soil spoken of in Genesis is no soil other than 'Atoms' themselves.

Thus in spiritual form, God's form, by moulding man out of the atoms in specific arrangement, which was allowable by the original design of the environment, via the big bang, and properties of the atoms which were designed 'BEFOREHAND', the specific construct moulded by God was that which we call a Man. using a certain grouping of certain atoms , with certain properties in a specific arrangement created an Identity, considered to be conscious.

so some grouping of atoms create inanimate objects, while other groupings of atoms in their specific required arrangements will create animate or living things. and this is how God fashioned, the Dogs and Ducks and horses and all forms of complex life. And painted algorithms with atoms for their various species and fur/colour patterns within the genetic code. for a particular section of dna only requires an atom that falls within the same group to be made part of the equation. the difference in that part of the equation will equate to the difference in fur colour, size, eye colour etc. because each are using the pre-existing building blocks with the rules defined by the conscious force and the light which it has moulded in various forms, so that they can interact in various ways, some of which create living identities.. we see that this is how it was started.

Why?
God created the environment and the building blocks and the rules which define how they interact. once that is done,he moulded a host of lifeforms and then the process of reproduction takes over, which is to give us autonomous control of the propogation of our race, by building into us the reproductive abilities.. yet.. splitting this power into two factions.. male and female, ensuring that none can stand without the other. here we also see groupings and attributes as we will see on every level in between as well. both with the 'unseen and seen' interacting or paired opposites.. Good/evil, east/west, male/female etc.

what we have in fact been given is the key and lock ability built into us to recreate THIS ONE particular combination of atoms that will produce a living organism known as a man, which evolves from a sperm uniting with an egg.. again 'paired opposites'. dogs were given the same gift within their species.. but let us now look at genetic transfer through reproduction.

Remember the pre-existing building blocks had set rules for interaction in their design and as a result, the various atoms based on their attributes and properties could be grouped based on their application.. whether to make an inanimate object like a rock, or an animate object, like a plankton or a man. this same grouping from pre-existing conditions is what prevents a man from mating with a dog and producing a 'Dan' (Dog-man). and also unfortunately for Darwin, prevents a man from mating with an Ape to produce successful offspring even if attempted.. Thus their can be no advancing of species via groupings outside of the level of spiritual completeness of either party. Thus many dogs of different species can interbreed, however, they could not breed with a tiger to evolve claws and canines or even gain the tiger stripe pattern on their fur from said tiger. what actually has happened once again, is that the pre-existing constructs of the atoms and their groupings when drafted by a fetus cell as it feeds and grows will alot the specific atom apparent to fit within the grouping at it's required location in the dna structure simply because it is available and it fits! the combinations of such atoms in various locations in the design of the complete dna spiral or.. the algorithm of allocation will produce tiger stripe pattern fur etc. it will then be common sense, that swapping out this section in a gene into another creature which carries similar code with minor differences will produce the needed change. thus by identifying the gene for blue eyes in a man, man can then swap out the blue eye arrangement by the first replication of the cell so that it will propogate blue eye gene data over the previous brown eyes. it is just like swapping out a piece of code from one program into another. however, various programs examples dogs, cats, horses may require some code adaptation for the differences in their operation system which is what leads scientists to require the use of trial and error with huge chunks of code in the hope to narrow down the particular sections they would like to find and manipulate.

Thus the theory of Evolution is Nothing but a mere common sense analysis of the present, used in scientific terms, however, ignoring that the Bible says the same thing and pretending that science said it first. everything around us is energy, and energy is an atom, and atoms are light and magnetic force of will. This is why the theory of evolution cannot tell us how life started, because it only demonstrates how life is propagated, but in a manner as though it never had a beginning, which is quite an illogical assertion for science to claim. This is how the items behave when arranged in this particular manner, but what it would take to foster everything to it's first formation adheres to the principle of an intelligent designer. once created they are given the ability of full autonomy of recreating themselves using the pre-existing building blocks.

Indeed, we have atoms in us that have travelled across the universe, passed in a swamp, been digested by a toad and shat out by a duck in our bodies, giving us life. each carrying with it it's memory in God the Father Divine Spiritual of where it has been. Notice that the Theory of Evolution has NOT CROSSED THE LINE regarding the bible. by addressing that it does not know 'how it all began' and only describing the Scientific process which has been observed through the reproductive cycle, science has noticeably started describing ONLY that which took place AFTER the bible drops the topic of creation. it only addresses the blanks but does not recognize that it fits in well with the bible if they would only 'give Jack his Jacket'.

Thus Big Bang is fine, which is how we may have perceived it as light becomes visible out of the darkness, Theory of Evolution is also fine.. After God created the first of everything The Theory of Evolution is heavily dependent on the theory of 'Natural Selection'. and i call natural selection a theory as well because noone seems to be able to define what the word 'natural' means using singly scientific terms.

So children. study well to pass your exams in school, but do not make the mistake to call science God. If i were to be frank i'd say Science doesnt know jack about all there is here. but i'll be generous in saying. Give science it's credit for observations, but take it's theories with a pinch of salt. the promise that the Theory of Evolution will some day answer how it all began is a fallacy! it only describes what has been observed in life's present autonomous state and then carries on to make what it terms 'legal assumptions'.

How did God make the universe? Through his will you say? So, you hold a subjective worldview, right?

Originally posted by Philodemus
How did God make the universe? Through his will you say? So, you hold a subjective worldview, right?

edit on 7-7-2013 by Philodemus because: (no reason given)

defined what you mean by subjective world view. also recognize the significance of the fact i presented which more than marginally debunks the theory of evolution as ever being able to answer creation itself.. and that fact is.. that a dog cannot mate with a horse and create a horse-dog, thus traits could not have been transported in this manner. so if your argument will be structured around your faith in the theory of evolution, know that what you have faith in to answer the question is using matchsticks for a foundation.

reply to post by filledcup

also recognize the significance of the fact i presented which more than marginally debunks the theory of evolution as ever being able to answer creation itself..

The purpose of evolutionary theory is not to deal with the question of the origins of life. Most of evolutionary biology deals with how life changed after its origin. Regardless of how life started.

Originally posted by Atzil321
reply to post by filledcup

 

also recognize the significance of the fact i presented which more than marginally debunks the theory of evolution as ever being able to answer creation itself..

The purpose of evolutionary theory is not to deal with the question of the origins of life. Most of evolutionary biology deals with how life changed after its origin. Regardless of how life started.

not quite as you state it, since there is the one problem. Man. Man could not come from an ape. tho yes all the animals etc are lower and lower lifeform levels of spiritual completeness, their link is more in the invisible realm than the visible. Thus man did not and COULD NOT come from a monkey or Ape since the original lifeforms were molded by an intelligent Creator. The consciousness behind living creatures is a Spirit within the animate vessel we call the body. an essence of God the creator , and so evolution theory cannot debunk him!

So Dawkins can run down whatever lizard hole he wants with yearning logic. no intelligent person should follow. to create a living organism it's atoms themselves must first be structured in a specific arrangement for the organism desired. you dont just throw all the elements into a bag and shake it up and wallah.. a human child is born. it required thought and design. this is the philosophy behind paintings. the elements are there, all the colours, yet, an artist must fashion it to portray something meaningful to his level of intelligence.

reply to post by filledcup


No, I'm not going to debate you on the theory of evolution. You've miss-identified so many key concepts that it's hardly worth it.

In this reality in which we operate there are subjects and objects. I am a subject and every other thing I can gain knowledge about and even that knowledge itself are objects.

In an objective world view, the objects of reality hold metaphysical primacy over the subject. Meaning, I can not change the nature of the objects based purely on my consciousness or wish.

In a subjective worldview, the opposite holds. The subject holds metaphysical primacy over the objects. In other words, "God" (a word that is conceptually referenceless) can change or manipulate the objects based only on his whim or wish. By means of conscious intent alone, he can change anything about reality. Including the rules. In this worldview, no holes are barred. Anything goes. I have no assurance that adding sugar to my coffee will sweeten it even though it has for thirty years. Tomorrow, if God arbitrarily wishes, sugar could cause my coffee to combust.

So, you affirm a subjective worldview?

In Humanity,
Daniel

Originally posted by filledcup

The consciousness behind living creatures is a Spirit within the animate vessel we call the body. an essence of God the creator , and so evolution theory cannot debunk him!

And thusly, you can't prove him either.

You use a remarkable number of concepts and non-concepts in your theory. I would like to know what you believe the words you use to actually mean. I would also like to know how you inform these concepts. What is and where did you get the theory of concepts you use?

What is consciousness?
What is essence?
What is God?

Originally posted by Philodemus

Originally posted by filledcup

The consciousness behind living creatures is a Spirit within the animate vessel we call the body. an essence of God the creator , and so evolution theory cannot debunk him!

And thusly, you can't prove him either.

You use a remarkable number of concepts and non-concepts in your theory. I would like to know what you believe the words you use to actually mean. I would also like to know how you inform these concepts. What is and where did you get the theory of concepts you use?

What is consciousness?
What is essence?
What is God?

consciousness is to have an identity and the realization of the awareness of that identity. It is the force of life given individual thought autonomy. The Spirit or Soul.

Essence is like a worm. and having the a quarter of the worm cut creates two worms. Essence is one worm cutting off a portion of itself to stand independently of it. carrying all it's attributes however in a smaller package.

God is the original worm.

my theories and concepts are derived from spiritual understanding of existence having attained samadhi several years ago. with it i am able to understand anything i read and as well decipher and predict logically all truth in what i read and all that should be taken with a pinch of salt clearly. i am well educated on both scientific and religious/spiritual information. the combination of both giving me insight to the progress of scientific discovery. in effect, i see where science succeeds and where it will fail.

Originally posted by Philodemus
reply to post by filledcup

 

No, I'm not going to debate you on the theory of evolution. You've miss-identified so many key concepts that it's hardly worth it.

In this reality in which we operate there are subjects and objects. I am a subject and every other thing I can gain knowledge about and even that knowledge itself are objects.

In an objective world view, the objects of reality hold metaphysical primacy over the subject. Meaning, I can not change the nature of the objects based purely on my consciousness or wish.

In a subjective worldview, the opposite holds. The subject holds metaphysical primacy over the objects. In other words, "God" (a word that is conceptually referenceless) can change or manipulate the objects based only on his whim or wish. By means of conscious intent alone, he can change anything about reality. Including the rules. In this worldview, no holes are barred. Anything goes. I have no assurance that adding sugar to my coffee will sweeten it even though it has for thirty years. Tomorrow, if God arbitrarily wishes, sugar could cause my coffee to combust.

So, you affirm a subjective worldview?

In Humanity,
Daniel

the answers in my previous post should clear up the issue here. uve attempted to confine me to one point of view. when that is not something i would partake of atall. indeed i would look at both points of view, because they do create the whole picture and no part is a whole. which is what essence explains. we were subjected in creation, but once created i suppose you can say we become objective. it's a line drawn down the middle of those two you pointed out. and my explanation of the word essence should have cleared that up. The will of God is required for creation, but once the creation is complete it possess it's own independent will.

here is just one of the aspect which i have stated for years. Dark matter is like the direct fabric of God's thought form. the blackboard. and light is his chalk or paint brush. which he uses to paint the heavens in his design.

from darkness came light! thus ALL matter as in all Atoms are connected to the invisible! Dark matter, Nothingness! we have particles, wave particles and then the undetectable. the wave-particles act as a bridge between invisible wave/thought and visible particles in the upholding of the constructs of existence.

The wave side is the realms of Thought, and this is where quantum science hosts it's research. on this side things seem to act intelligent or random. yet there is a direct perceived link to this backdrop coming from visible reality. indeed if that were to collapse.. ALL of reality would collapse with it! all that we perceive as here and now.

see that God is intentionally holding every aspect of existence in place so that it generates life. A higher intelligence is responsible for the creation and sustenance of life!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

consciousness is to have an identity and the realization of the awareness of that identity. It is the force of life given individual thought autonomy. The Spirit or Soul.

So, you don't need any other input other than one's own consciousness? Introspection only works if you have something to introspect on (i.e. awareness of objects). I know I like Thai food. I can introspect on that.

Essence is like a worm. and having the a quarter of the worm cut creates two worms. Essence is one worm cutting off a portion of itself to stand independently of it. carrying all it's attributes however in a smaller package.

This doesn't really answer the question. It's only metaphor.

God is the original worm.

Was this the definition of God? A worm?

my theories and concepts

What is a concept?

are derived from spiritual understanding of existence

What is existence?

having attained samadhi several years ago. with it i am able to understand anything i read and as well decipher and predict logically all truth in what i read and all that should be taken with a pinch of salt clearly.

So, you do or do not have a sense other than your five sense modalities that you can use to understand the world around you? Not clear here.

i am well educated on both scientific and religious/spiritual information.

what is "spiritual in formation and how do you obtain it?

the combination of both giving me insight to the progress of scientific discovery. in effect, i see where science succeeds and where it will fail.

Hmmm....nice assertion. But how can I verify this?

the answers in my previous post should clear up the issue here. uve attempted to confine me to one point of view.

How do you maintain more than one point of view on something and avoid contradiction?

which is what essence explains.

You'll have to do better than cutting worms to help me understand

we were subjected in creation, but once created i suppose you can say we become objective.

Read my reply again. The way you've worded this sounds like the opposite of what I said. Unless that's you meant. If it is what you meant then you just affirmed a subjective metaphysic.

my explanation of the word essence should have cleared that up.

Absolutely not.

The will of God is required for creation, but once the creation is complete it possess it's own independent will.

So your God is powerless and impotent now? Sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. There really isn't a middle ground here.

So, you don't need any other input other than one's own consciousness? Introspection only works if you have something to introspect on (i.e. awareness of objects). I know I like Thai food. I can introspect on that.

correct. but only for creation. upon creation of the body is creation of the soul. as the atoms therein have reached a particular combination and order which achieves spiritual completeness in the form of a human entity. it can then be realized that the Spirit/consciousness can stand independently of the body. in a form of pure consciousness without a vessel of detectable matter(a physical body) for existence. however, the spiritual body remains to be introspected, tho it may be invisible to the faculties of the average human being's eyesight or detection.

Essence is like a worm. and having the a quarter of the worm cut creates two worms. Essence is one worm cutting off a portion of itself to stand independently of it. carrying all it's attributes however in a smaller package.

This doesn't really answer the question. It's only metaphor.

define something for me, anything, without using a metaphor or form of reference.

God is the original worm.

Was this the definition of God? A worm?

did you not just recognize it to be a metaphor?

Hmmm....nice assertion. But how can I verify this?

note the things i have said and see them come to pass in future discoveries.

yes, i have more than 5 senses. a spiritual sense of truth is one! the ability to make visible to myself higher spectrums of existence is another.

and the fact is that the topics of subjective and objective do not define my position if i were to choose any one. my position is what ive described to you. at best it can be seen as a thin line between the two.

when a worm cuts off a portion of itself, that cut off portion becomes it's own complete worm. it can then be said, that the newly cut off part is BOTH part of the worm and it's own worm! having it's own identity. tho one point of view is that it is 'part of the worm' when cut, the other point of view sees it as standing independently and becoming it's own entity. yet there is no contradiction. this is how opposing forces unite thru love to create all of existence. ying yang!

define something for me, anything, without using a metaphor or form of reference.

God

They claim that they perceive a mode of being superior to your existence on this earth. The mystics of spirit call it “another dimension,” which consists of denying dimensions. The mystics of muscle call it “the future,” which consists of denying the present. To exist is to possess identity. What identity are they able to give to their superior realm? They keep telling you what it is not, but never tell you what it is. All their identifications consist of negating: God is that which no human mind can know, they say—and proceed to demand that you consider it knowledge—God is non-man, heaven is non-earth, soul is non-body, virtue is non-profit, A is non-A, perception is non-sensory, knowledge is non-reason. Their definitions are not acts of defining, but of wiping out.

“God” as traditionally defined is a systematic contradiction of every valid metaphysical principle. The point is wider than just the Judeo-Christian concept of God. No argument will get you from this world to a supernatural world. No reason will lead you to a world contradicting this one. No method of inference will enable you to leap from existence to a “super-existence.”[\ex]

Any Rand Lexicon Online

no arguement will. but meditation sure does.

a dogmatic mind is unable to see beyond the apparent contradiction to the truth. quoting someone, no matter how respected you consider their opinion to be does not make them right. will u take the word of a non-mystic's description of mysticism over an actual attained mystic who knows well how to reveal hidden realms?

noone can deny mysticism without denying that those things observed in quantum science and realm is real. many ppl try to sound like theyre smart. but theyre really not.

there is no denying of physical existence except to the point of realization. u are born and grow up not realizing your own soul. becoming realized is to realize the soul and that your true source is not the body but what inhabits the body. to do this one has to denigrate from the ego. once this realization is attained, the mystic balances both his mystical aspirations as well as his real world ego self. it is all about balance and unifying perspectives. there is no contradiction.

dont listen to foolish men who dont know what they are talking about. how can a blind man claim to u that horses are not real when he has never seen them. the mystics have seen the horse and rode upon it and know that the invisible and unseen realms are JUST AS real as this one. the blind man lives in disbelief and so never discovers it because in disbelief, there is no faith in success. or may have tried and tried all the wrong things, having never been able to see the horse, and so retires in frustration to claim it is not real simply because he failed. there is much envy circling those who claim to have achieved samadhi.. by fools. they get carried away with envy of the intiate's attainment and ignore the message that the initiate brings which is to say; that mysticism isnt a waste of time with no real achievable results. this is to give hope to aspirants that one day they can succeed if they find the right path. if they are not interested then that isnt my fault, and certainly not my loss.