EU referendum: UK MPs call for public to have their say

Originally posted by Freeborn
The party political system has outlived it's usefulness. It's a sick and ailing old dog that needs putting out of it's misery allowing a new and vibrant young pup to take it's place.

edit on 7/7/13 by Freeborn because: grammar and clarity

Totally in agreement with you on all of your points matey, as you well know. However, I feel this point is the most important because it is our system and the way it is abused nowadays that is the root of pretty much all of our problems.

Our system is centuries old and was designed in a different age. It has been retrofitted over the years to try and reform, but putting wheels on a horse is not a solution when you could just start again and build a car. That is what we really need to do, start again from the ground up and design a political system that is in keeping with the 21st century, not the 18th.

reply to post by stumason


You are quite correct.

We cling on to the current electoral and parliamentary system like some sort of sacred and hallowed ritual that can not be changed or altered in any significant way.
It's portrayed as this great symbol of British culture and heritage despite it being unrepresentative, it's members more or less unaccountable and is the epitome of the staid, amoral, self-serving, corrupt and self-perpetuating system that produced those who lord it over us with utter contempt and disdain.

Yes, we should be proud of the role this nation played in establishing 'democratic' rule, universal suffrage and the authority of elected bodies over monarchs, but I would much rather glory in a nation that is also able to recognise it's failings and is willing to move forward in a positive way by introducing a system that is more suited to the modern era, gives increased representation and involves the people of this country in the actual decision making of matters that affect each and every one of us.

I also find it a bit sad, and somewhat frustrating, that so many fail to understand that it's not just the actual physical act of voting on something of such importance that matters here but that it's at least as equally important that we create the system whereby we can enable a free, open and unprejudiced public debate on every aspect of EU membership and other key issues.
Whilst I have my own personal opinions on EU membership etc, they have no more value or worth than anyone else's, the truly important thing is that the outcome of such a referendum is based on the reasoned, informed and considered opinion of the electorate and that it help's establish that the 'will of the people' has authority over individual politicians and political party's.

I know I'm very much 'preaching to the converted' here mate.

The sun is shining, I've watered the plants, it's time for Sunday Dinner then crack open a cold one and watch the GP and then the tennis.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by hotel1

 

I always look back in fondness when Brown took over the Premiership, gave a speech at the Labour party conference in 2007 declaring his excellent economic prowess and "an end to boom and bust" literally weeks before the worlds worst economic collapse...

Couldn't have made himself look any more foolish!

Originally posted by hotel1
I have to be getting on with things on this lovely day so I will check back later. Thanks for a good thread.

Enjoy the Sun, lets hope Murray wins Wimbledon and Hamilton in Germany. I'm stuck at work myself, so catch some rays for me

edit on 7/7/13 by stumason because: (no reason given)

He did achieve fifty percent of that ambition by bringing an end to the boom. The only sense in which I will be catching any rays is toiling under an unforgiving sun tending eleven vegetable crops. This has the potential to be a great sporting day for us fingers crossed

reply to post by stumason


Hi Stu. It's me, Fritz, but by a different name as ATS cocked up my account. Long time no see BUT, to business.

The Tories are only jumping on Nigel Farage's band wagon as they are terrified that UKIP will take votes away from them at the next election.

Here are some very hard facts: In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). We have received back just €163 billion (£143 billion) in benefits. The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project. The rebate would have been higher in recent years had not Tony Blair given up part of it under pressure from EU leaders. He agreed to cut it by about 20 per cent from 2007 until the next round of budget negotiations in 2013. This concession has cost Britain about £4 billion a year.

The EU expects the UK to pay a larger slice of the admin costs because we are considered to be a very wealthy country in proportion to our GDP [we are the 4th largest contributor] and this year (2013) our contribution is expected to rise by £350M as CaMoron was outvoted by member states earlier in the year when he demanded another rebate for the UK.

We need to get out, if only to prohibit the endless junk peddled by the EU H&S council and the Human Rights Judge Advocates who tend to take great pleasure in defending terrorist rights over those of the British people.

reply to post by Freeborn


I think that is all most people want, to be honest. Not to necessarily leave the EU, but lets at least have a debate, weigh up the pros and cons and allow us, the People, to decide if we want in - not some arrogant career politico who is totally detached from us "normal" people.

As for the system at large, I am still totally at a loss as to how we, as a nation, have allowed this corrupt system to perpetuate for so long. Sometimes I wish society would implode from some economic malaise, at least then people would be woken up to the reality of the situation and force change, like we are seeing right now across the Middle East and to a lesser extent South America.

We, as a nation, have got to comfortable, fat and lazy. Until we see empty shelves or have trouble putting food on the table for the family, I fear the situation will simply just carry on.

reply to post by luxbaclos1


Hey Fritz

Agreed, this is directly related to the recent success of UKIP - the Tories do not want to bleed votes to UKIP which will no doubt lead to either another hung parliament (which will just give us another wishy-washy Government) or, God forbid, a new Labour Government which will never look at the EU issue.

What we could do with is some of the European parts...easy ways of travel/trade so less is spent having to 'grease' the wheels of international commerce with the understanding that different places do stuff differently and respect it and apply the 'when in rome' approach...we want stilton to be a rich blue cheese not some crap with barely a hint of flavour due to some guy in Madrid not understanding the heritage and tradition of English blue cheeses and by the same regard we don't stop them using matadors as hitmen for fray bentos

I don't understand why there making us wait so long because I want out of e.u and so do most the people I work with that's why if the referendum fails to pull us out of the e.u i will vote ukip forever...

i for one cant wait to get out of the E.U.

and its the same with most people i know

the E.U. acts like a buffer for UK goverment if somthing goes rong our goverment blames E.U. red tape

afta we leave E.U. then our goverment is acountable for theyer actions

EU law is the only thing that is saving our country from corporate interests and their political representatives (the conservatives)
Minimum wages, human rights, air pollution levels, if we abandoned all this then our country will suffer in the long term. We would be more slaves to the mega-corporations and become more like the states. EU membership is something we should cherish and protect. Many EU countries are rich and have very high standards of living, we should be more like them.

Originally posted by DAZ21
About time really, but why make us wait until 2017?

So they get voted in at next election, just a con really.

Oh well, I suppose at least they are actually backing their words with something more concrete. Question now is, how are they going to sell the EU to the population, so that we all vote YES?

No need, remember what they did in Ireland? Just rejected the vote when they said no, went ahead with the Lisbon treaty anyhow.

Im done with the left and right paradigm, democracy occurs once every 4 years, they call it election day. After that those elected decide what's going down and how much # you have to take.

reply to post by Robertsy


The reasons the referendum has been postponed to 2017 is so that firstly the EU has time to "reform itself" and secondly so it is an issue in the next General Election.

I see little point leaving the EU.

reply to post by Dr X



Being a member of the EU doesn't mean Human Rights will be eliminated , the UK had such rights all ready
established.
Your minimum wage concerns actually cost jobs and withdraw the Right to trade your own labor
as you see fit, your Corporate concerns will probably be best tackled using a more Libertarian approach; success
being dependent upon merit rather then manipulating law and/or political connections.
Granted though, the people must be given the choice as the EU will only survive with closer fiscal and monetary
alliance as all Govt Bonds are not created equal and without a Euro Bond i can't see the EU existing in 2017.
UKIP represent a more libertarian stance but still support certain welfare programmes loved by
the more liberal minded,
www.ukip.org...

When you look at the rest of the e.u everyone seems to be going bankrupt Greece, Italy, Spain are all failing Britain along with them too. Plus look at the all the money we pay into the e.u just to get nothing back from it, they even control and regulate most of our laws and more important immigration e.u say we have to keep loosing other e.u members in when there aren't enough jobs and housing for the current citizens...and if you see any reason too stay in the e.u...just think we did alright for hundreds of years without the establishment so history speaks for itself. I know there are lots of people who think the same as I do.