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EU referendum: UK MPs call for public to have their say

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posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 03:59 AM
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The Conservative party in the UK have just backed a Bill going through it's first reading in Parliament which would legally bind the UK to a referendum on EU membership inn 2017..

The Tories say they are "speaking for millions of people" in the country yet Labour and the Lib Dems say they are "talking to themselves" and boycotted the vote.

My own personal politics aside, the behaviour by the other two parties borders on childishness at best or total arrogance at worst, because every major poll in the past several years has shown that EU membership is high on people's lists and up to 50% of people would vote to leave the EU now if there was a vote.

Surely, if they truly believed that the Tories were barking up the wrong tree on this, they'd let us have our say? The only reason they oppose it is because they know how a sizeable chunk of the UK feels, yet seem totally disinterested in the public's opinions.



Conservative MPs have led calls for the public to have their say in a referendum on whether Britain should remain in the European Union.

James Wharton, whose bill proposes a vote by 2017, said he was "speaking for millions of people" in the country.

He said "public sentiment" about Europe had changed and fresh consent for the UK's membership was "long overdue".

Labour said the Tories were "talking to themselves" while the Lib Dems branded the bill a "complete stunt".

BBC Link




posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:06 AM
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About time really, but why make us wait until 2017?

Oh well, I suppose at least they are actually backing their words with something more concrete. Question now is, how are they going to sell the EU to the population, so that we all vote YES?



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:08 AM
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reply to post by DAZ21
 


I would imagine 2017 so that they can make a concrete promise at the next election plus it also takes time to go through Parliament so it's probably as early as is reasonable.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


True, it would take time.

Anyway if this does go through, the conservatives will certainly get re-elected wether people usually vote for them or not. It seems like the most democratic move by any party for a long time, and people will respect this.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:19 AM
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I can tell you from personal experience that the Lib Dems are a bunch of traitors who would sell our sovereignty to Europe in a heartbeat hence the stance on this issue. As for Labour, Milliband the Marxist dweeb has the mentality of a child that likes to poke its tongue out at authority regardless if what is being said makes sense or not.

Red Ed supposedly went to a comprehensive school, he would of got seven different kinds of you know what knocked out him at the one I went to which would explain why he has the victim complex he displays every time he opens his mouth.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:23 AM
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How many millions are they speaking for? Unless it's above half the population who are legally recognised as having a say, they should pipe down and get on with running the country, and hopefully, not into the ground.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by hotel1
 


I am a little concerned at the enxt election, as current polls show Labour quite a way in the lead. I know this is normal for a mid-term Government, especially one dealing with such economic issues, but have people really got memories that short? Labour had 13 years of power and led us directly into the worst economic downturn since the 1930's - interestingly the Labour party were in power during the start of the Great Depression as well....



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


Pick any poll and between 45-50% of people would vote to leave the EU if given the vote, so by extrapolation, one could surmise that this is an issue for at least 45-50% of the electorate in the UK.

Everyone I speak to has something to say on the matter, on both sides of fence.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:26 AM
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reply to post by IvanAstikov
 


Also, why should it be above half the population for it to be relevant?

What a stupid position to take. Even if it was an issue affecting only 10% of people, that is still millions and certainly worth Parliamentary time. After all, just how many people did Fox hunting affect yet Labour pushed through the ban anyway....



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by hotel1
 


I am a little concerned at the enxt election, as current polls show Labour quite a way in the lead. I know this is normal for a mid-term Government, especially one dealing with such economic issues, but have people really got memories that short? Labour had 13 years of power and led us directly into the worst economic downturn since the 1930's - interestingly the Labour party were in power during the start of the Great Depression as well....


People in elections don't vote people in, they vote people out. So people won't vote Labour in because they want a Labour government, they'll do it just to get the Conservatives out.

And yes people have that short term a memory; promise them enough free stuff and you can get enough votes to win.





edit on 7-7-2013 by khimbar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by hotel1
 


I am a little concerned at the enxt election, as current polls show Labour quite a way in the lead. I know this is normal for a mid-term Government, especially one dealing with such economic issues, but have people really got memories that short? Labour had 13 years of power and led us directly into the worst economic downturn since the 1930's - interestingly the Labour party were in power during the start of the Great Depression as well....


I know its astounding just how obtuse people and lefties in particular can be. Labour have consistently brought this country to ruin with their excessive borrowing, and subsequent spending on every outlying and freakish cause. Despite always inheriting a sound economic situation they p ss the national wealth away.

Take the example of Brown who sold our gold reserves off cheap to his banker mates just before gold prices skyrocketed beyond anything ever seen before, the man was an idiot. The fresh faced one that originally brought the abomination into power turned out to be a war mongering, mass murderer that took his orders directly from Washington. Socialists cannot and should not ever be trusted in positions of authority as history clearly shows.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:42 AM
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reply to post by khimbar
 


If people do vote like that (and I would argue that most don't) then that is just daft. You should vote for the candidate you feel would best represent your constituency and nothing else.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by khimbar
 


If people vote like that, then we are all doomed and it shows that the population isn't worth saving anyway.

I'm hoping people will use their brains, not vote for the other guy in retaliation, the same ones who got us into such a mess in the first place.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:48 AM
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I have to be getting on with things on this lovely day so I will check back later. Thanks for a good thread.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:54 AM
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reply to post by hotel1
 


I always look back in fondness when Brown took over the Premiership, gave a speech at the Labour party conference in 2007 declaring his excellent economic prowess and "an end to boom and bust" literally weeks before the worlds worst economic collapse...

Couldn't have made himself look any more foolish!


Originally posted by hotel1
I have to be getting on with things on this lovely day so I will check back later. Thanks for a good thread.


Enjoy the Sun, lets hope Murray wins Wimbledon and Hamilton in Germany. I'm stuck at work myself, so catch some rays for me
edit on 7/7/13 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 04:55 AM
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Its a bit of a non event as no parliament can pass legislation binding a subsequent parliament.

Neither Labour or the Lib Dems will ever back a referendum as withdrawal runs counter to the accepted dogma of both parties leadership. There is a reasonable chunk of the Labour base who might disagree but its not at the top of thier priorities.

The same can be said to an extent for the Tories. Thier leadership is committed to remaining in the EU. Thier base is divided on the issue with a sizeable number seeing the EU as the failed statist boondoggle that it is.

Only the Tories can deliver the referendum and they have to be made to want to. They are going to lose at the next election anyway and Red Ed is going to have a go at finishing off the economic demolition job that Brown started. With that acknowledged people should vote UKIP to make it clear where the Conservatives need to go in order to regroup 5 years later.

Thats the only route to a referendum on the issue.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by justwokeup
Its a bit of a non event as no parliament can pass legislation binding a subsequent parliament.


That's not strictly true - it is merely a convention or "political theory" but in practice Parliament is constantly bound by previous legislation - it is however the only body in the UK that is legally allowed to overturn or repeal legislation.

So, yes, the next Government would be bound by the passage of such a Bill, but could simply pass another Bill repealing it, providing it had the ability to do so in terms of numbers.

However, it would be politically very dangerous for something that has such popular support.

This, I see, is a move by the Tories to shore up support from those thinking of switching to UKIP or the vast numbers of swing voters for whom this is an important issue.

I honestly do not see Ed Milliband as electable, despite their current high polls so actually I expect a Tory Government in the next election as well. In two years, the economy will have recovered, unemployment will be dropping and that will be seen (and sold) as a vindication of Tory economic policy.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


I trust no political party to honour their election promises, they all have a very long and proven track record of failing to carry them out.

Whether people like it or not the Tory Party is coming under increasing pressure from the continued rise in support for UKIP whose policies seem to be striking a chord with 'the common man'.
Which is one of the reason's why the Tories are turning towards populist policies in a desperate attempt to cling on to power - I doubt this was brought about by any sort of deep conviction.
I seem to recall some years ago Cameron pledged his support for a referendum on EU membership then as soon as he was elected he did a complete about face and said that HE didn't think it was the right time for Britain to have that debate - what gives him, or any politician the right to deny the people their right to self determination?

Don't get me wrong - I have just as much contempt and mistrust for Miliband and Clegg.
Miliband seems to be doing his best to alienate himself and The Labour Party from their more traditional voters and is as far removed from them as anyone could possibly be and many of his policies are contradictory to the very core values of the Labour Party.

Clegg and the LibDems have proven they will sell their soul to the devil for just a sniff of the chance of a little bit of power.
They have betrayed their predecessors and everything that any Liberal or Social Democrat ever believed in.

The Tories may be guilty of populism, but at least at the moment it seems as if they may actually be prepared to carry this through.
Their motivations are pretty much irrelevant if it leads to a genuinely open, honest and frank debate on the pro's and con's of continued membership of the EU.
Because that is the important thing.
That Miliband and Clegg have forced their MP's not to enter into this debate shows a complete and total lack of respect or concern for the electorate's wishes and their care's and concern's.

The way I see it is that at this moment in time people's voting intentions don't really matter - the most important thing is that there is an open and public debate on continued EU membership, options available if we vote to come out of the EU and if we vote for continued membership how we have to commit and try to take a leading role within it and how best to promote and safeguard UK interest's.

Yet again the major political party's are much more concerned about playing their games of one-upmanship rather than looking after the interest's of this nation and it's people.

The party political system has outlived it's usefulness. It's a sick and ailing old dog that needs putting out of it's misery allowing a new and vibrant young pup to take it's place.
edit on 7/7/13 by Freeborn because: grammar and clarity



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 05:53 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


It'll be interesting to see which of us is right. I don't think things are going to get better economically and I think the Tories will take the blame. I think the Bank of England is going to print to devalue the currency further and ordinary people are going to continue to feel poorer. Time will tell.



posted on Jul, 7 2013 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by justwokeup
 


The latest economic figures are pointing at a sustained recovery is under way - manufacturing is up, business confidence is at it's highest since 2007 according to the CBI and unemployment is falling.

All of this is probably got nothing to do with what Government is in charge or what they're doing, but the incumbent will always get the brownie points none the less. If, by 2015, the economy has recovered, then that will be sold (and bought) as a vindication of the current policy, whether or not it actually had anything to do with it is beside the point.





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