Self fufilling proficy

Is Armegedon a self fufilling profficy? I have read some conspiracy related sites that Israel as a nation was set up at the end of WWII to be the catalyst that brings about the end times. That by it's very creation, conflict would arise between the Jews and Muslims that would encompas the whole world. Why are the Palastinians more "sacred" to the Muslim cause than any other off shoot of the Muslim faith. And why is it that every power nation in the world has taken up the cause? Is it just because it is the holy land?

I belive in the bible and don't think that the two, Conspiracy to bring about the end and the actual account of Revelations are mutually exsclusive.

Could it be that both are correct. That the Revelation was seen but at the same time the events that lead to Armagedon are a man made response to the book of Revelation and an evil attempt to bring about the second coming?

I have thought about this before. Not 'isreal' specific, but revelation in general specific.

What if there are key powers at play that are trying to force the hand of prophecy? What if governments are looking to new secret weapons that are not man made weapons but are spiritual weapons.. i.e. If we align ourselves with the antichrist and he can perform signs and wonders, what nation will want to fight against us? They will want to unite with us?

It is an interesting concept, and prophecy just blows your mind when you try to think about it. Are humans stumbling blindly towards it, do they know exactly what they are doing and where they are going but have no control of what is going on? Are key players manipulating the environment to bring about these changes?

Questions, questions, questions

I agree, there are a lot of religious nutters out there desperate for armageddon to come and who will try and further their cause anyway they can, they do this in the strange belief they are doing gods work and they will be saved.

I agree, there are a lot of religious nutters out there desperate for armageddon to come and who will try and further their cause anyway they can, they do this in the strange belief they are doing gods work and they will be saved.

Agreed, there are droves of zealots whose thinking is rather skewed. But they're not all ranting on street corners, many hold positions of great power. Moreover, such fundamentalists may want to fulfill the "rantings of a lunatic," (exactly what Thomas Jefferson called the Revelations of St. John the Divine).

Certain fundie relatives of mine have confided that there is a group of farmers in Illlinois who are intent on breeding perfectly red cattle, to expedite the resumption of sacrifices in Isreal. Of course they are doing their part in the fulfillment of prophesy. Now, if that's not self-fulfilling prophetic nonsense....

Okay okay, you've got four books about a man who constantly preaches about love and peace, a bunch of follow-up books reinforcing the point, and now his followers want to get everyone killed? I'm sorry, this makes no sense to me. I think on a poll of Christians you'd find there is the consensus of armaggedon being a total tragedy to mankind. To wish the hammer to drop upon the world, causing great suffering is sadistic. I fear having to witness such an event. Watching people die on CNN thinking it should be me instead of them is bad enough.



[edit on 9-11-2004 by saint4God]

It never occurred to me before now that Zionism has driven so many Jews to Israel and infuriated so many Islamics that it might--all along--have been made up of people who wanted to bring an end to Judaism.

What I am aware of is that the Supreme Court Building in Jerusalem, built and paid for by the Rothschilds, is all Babylonian in style of architecture--which is very very odd indeed.

www.abidemiracles.com...



There are Jews who are non-Zionist; but they are comparatively a tiny remnant of all Jews.

But, come to think of it, yes, my Russian grandmother of Jewish descent did hate and despise all religion. But she was hot to go to Israel and she sent a lot of money there.

Would they--the Zionists and the UN and the "Liberals"--have gathered as many Jews in Israel as they could, just to get them all annihilated in an atomic Jihad?

That's truly a Satanic conspiracy, if it's true.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

[edit on 10-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

Originally posted by AkulA
Is Armegedon a self fufilling profficy? ?

It is spelled "prophecy," not "proficy or profficy."

Thank you.

But upon your other commentaries, yes such prophecies have been quite a money machine, tweaking people's expectations, collecting money for churches. An even more relevant case is how a war fever underscores what people think as their standing with Jesus, God, reality and eternity. The urgent "next step," in reality that has not thusfar been fulfilled.

Killing people for Jesus? That is totally insane! One could suppose any religion can be twisted into such thinking, maybe not Buddism, since it is concerned with "the destruction of suffering." Then again even so called Buddists, have not been nice, just as so called Chrisitians and others do not get any prize whatsoever for being such.

It may be the case Jesus actually returns in a million years, or a day from now, but those relentless expectations keep hyping people into anything but what Jesus said.

Philosophically as one who knows what one knows about Jesus, where it is beyond faith into a certainty, one would not have to care one way or another about when that day would come, nor think about being in "first place," for it. Those things are up to God, not men. Unfortunately the hype keeps on coming.

[edit on 10-11-2004 by SkipShipman]

The question you have to ask yourself is did John see it playing out through conspiracy... was this the way it was actually meant to be? Did God force him to write it down so the apocalypse could happen? So, people in the future could try to force God's hand by creating a situation in which the Apocalyse happens, in order to seal off evil forever... interesting, interesting indeed.

I think it is like this. People are aware of the prophecy and know their role in it, however, they dont necessarily want to go down that path. However, because they try to avoid prophecy they actually complete it.

Wild guess!

Please pardon me and bear with my ignorance. I�m terribly uneducated about the Bible and it�s prophecies. However, from the little I know, it intrigues me that people of so long ago had such intuitive and visionary prophecies. Their wisdom is/was moving and thought provoking.

Whenever I think Humanity�s untimate demise it usually plays out as either due to natural causes or is triggered by Human ignorance or greed. So, it�s either due to the occurrence a natural event of some kind much bigger than our ability to overcome, or it�s tied to Humanity�s lack of wisdom to control or apply it�s technology.

On the natural disaster side come thoughts of the run of the mill things like an astroid impact or a series of super volcanoes erupting at once causing a nuclear winter-like environment. In this event, our demise wouldn�t be a self-fullfilling prophecy.

On the technology side I imagine the standard Doom�s Day scenarios of a horrendous nuclear holocaust followed up by a devastating nuclear winter, or a runaway genetics experiment releasing an uncontainable killer virus, or intelligent machines finally deciding they�ve had it up to here with their inferior human creators. This kind of situation may fall into the self-fullfilling prophecy area.

It seems to me that our wisdom as a species is not advancing at the same rate that our technology is. Furthermore, we�re certainly not going to stop advancing/creating our technology in order to wait for our ability to intelligently use it to catch up. So, at some point, maybe soon, we will reach a crossroads where a final and fatal decision must be made. It may be disguised and misunderstood, and we will be unable grasp it�s significance. But, none-the-less, a decision will be made by someone, somewhere. If it�s the wrong decision we may go head-long down the road to a terrifying armageddon. We will be totally helpless to stop the advancement once the motion begins. Though we think we are in control of our destiny, we are anything but. In this case, we will self-destruct as a species, and perhaps no one will ever know we were even here at all.

If somehow the authors of the Bible had the ability to foresee this coming, then I�m very impressed and humbled by their wisdom.

Originally posted by netbound
Please pardon me and bear with my ignorance. I�m terribly uneducated about the Bible and it�s prophecies. However, from the little I know, it intrigues me that people of so long ago had such intuitive and visionary prophecies. Their wisdom is/was moving and thought provoking.
The claim is made; God, Gnosis, Spirit, inspired their writings!

Whenever I think Humanity�s untimate demise it usually plays out as either due to natural causes or is triggered by Human ignorance or greed. So, it�s either due to the occurrence a natural event of some kind much bigger than our ability to overcome, or it�s tied to Humanity�s lack of wisdom to control or apply it�s technology.
correct...man causes his own 'penalties' thru negligence, arrogance...
the God entity sometimes must use natural or cosmic forces to force a constructive, alternate path for humans to live in...

On the natural disaster side come thoughts of the run of the mill things like an astroid impact or a series of super volcanoes erupting at once causing a nuclear winter-like environment. In this event, our demise wouldn�t be a self-fullfilling prophecy.
oops...the 'laws' (subject to interpetation, deeper understanding...) seem to say that even over-population is a breach-of-the-laws; overcrowding in cities etc....and esorteric thinking has it that the 'Gaia'
(living planet earth) will respond to malnevolent 'pollution & poisoning' by the other sentient inhabitants on the planet, (? Law, created by the God entity?)

On the technology side I imagine the standard Doom�s Day scenarios of a horrendous nuclear holocaust followed up by a devastating nuclear winter, or a runaway genetics experiment releasing an uncontainable killer virus, or intelligent machines finally deciding they�ve had it up to here with their inferior human creators. This kind of situation may fall into the self-fullfilling prophecy area.

It seems to me that our wisdom as a species is not advancing at the same rate that our technology is. Furthermore, we�re certainly not going to stop advancing/creating our technology in order to wait for our ability to intelligently use it to catch up. So, at some point, maybe soon, we will reach a crossroads where a final and fatal decision must be made. It may be disguised and misunderstood, and we will be unable grasp it�s significance. But, none-the-less, a decision will be made by someone, somewhere. If it�s the wrong decision we may go head-long down the road to a terrifying armageddon. We will be totally helpless to stop the advancement once the motion begins. Though we think we are in control of our destiny, we are anything but. In this case, we will self-destruct as a species, and perhaps no one will ever know we were even here at all.
Agreed, wisdom? seems to have atrophied...
knowledge & technology has DIVERGED from 'wisdom, from the ages/sages'
#2; Catastrophism is a convienent model...
#3; in allfuture models of prophecy or futurisms?...there is a remnant saved....so what's the wailing, gnashing of teeth all about??

If somehow the authors of the Bible had the ability to foresee this coming, then I�m very impressed and humbled by their wisdom.
?ethenogens?...nonlocal interconnectivity with the Godhead/Consciousness? which brings up this point...many 'authors' of 'sacred' writings are not included in the popular, accepted, compilation of books called the Bible...(i guess they were the lunatics? which were excluded? eh?)

Originally posted by netbound
If somehow the authors of the Bible had the ability to foresee this coming, then I�m very impressed and humbled by their wisdom.

Well, maybe you shouldn't be. They got Genesis wrong. What makes anyone think Revelations would be any more accurate?

It's all an egocentric linear thinking model of man finding himself in the state of being then asking... How did I get here? How will it end?

Why should anyone that doesn't accept the creation stories, believe biblical armageddon stories?

I suppose the only answer is "self fullfilling prophecy." To which the logical reply would be "stop that." If the world is to end at the hand of man, and not some meteor, then yes it will be as a result of Religion. Not just the "bad" ones, or the "good" ones...all of them.

Man can't even comprehend a future with Religion. It always ends bad. Most every successful vision of the future (fictionwise) has abandoned organized Religion. Most every fictional vision of armageddon has Religion at it's root.

I suppose it is pretty self fulfilling then. Even if your brand of "salvation" wins out, it's only through much eagerly anticipated tribulation. Bring on the pain and suffering! Make man pay. :shk:

How any organized religion brings peace to a single soul is beyond me. It's a promise of chaos and unrest at it's very core. It's mass psychosis, subversive, counterintuitive, counterproductive, confrontational and deadly by design. Of course, an opinion like that is the sort of thing you get burned at the stake for by angry mobs in the majority claiming persecution...which pretty much makes my point for me.

Now, here's "an egocentric linear thinking model": "They got Genesis wrong. What makes anyone think Revelations would be any more accurate?"

Genesis is not wrong. It's a generalization, just as ANY Federal Register report >IS< a set of generalizations highlighted by specific instances, just as Majestic12 is a set of generalizations highlighted by specifics.

Neither is Revelation wrong. Every element in that prophecy can be related to one or more actors or agencies today--EVERY ONE.

But, Rant, you make a point that is very telling and perceptive also:

"How any organized religion brings peace to a single soul is beyond me."

Of course!

The "organized religion" has nothing to do with what happens inside its adherents: either the parishoners GET IT and connect with their Progenitor and the rest of the Universe; or they remain isolated predatory animals and keep to themselves.

The difference has to do with whether a person can "reach out" with their thoughts, grab hold of God's thoughts and remain attentive for further directions. Some "churches" and "mosques" and "temples" do and teach that better than others do and teach that.

All the rest of the doctrines and dogma are just window-dressing.

But, "the meek shall inhabit the earth" means the ones left over from Revelation are those who run from Cosmic Covenants altogether. They eschew commitments and remain in hiding when Father God shows up to claim His doting Children and take them Home.

What you have spoken here sounds as if you will hide from God's Presence, that you will deny the validity of any other person's relationship to our space-ET-Father ergo YHVH.

And you have the right to do that. I'm not judging against you nor criticizing you; I'm just speaking for the purpose of clarity. But in no case is there a reason to be afraid of our ancestor, to whom we attach the appellation, "God."