Eve got kicked out of the garden when?

So here it is...
Adam and Eve hanging around the garden...
...Eve eats apple (not kicked out)...
...Adam eats apple (they both knew something was going on)....
...and the rest is history.

1) What if Eve alone ate from the forbidden tree and not Adam?
(notice things seemed fine...no swift kick for Eve to send her out of the garden!)
2) When Adam "fell" apparently it clicked for both of them.
From my understanding of evangelical teachings, it was when Adam took a bite of the fruit, that he "sinned" and was "blemished"...which now required the blood sacrifice of Jesus.

So...
Jesus said, "If you look at a woman lustfully in your heart, you have committed adultery."
Well same goes for Adam...was it not out of a heart of disobedience that Adam took the fruit? His unclean heart/thoughts led to the action.

This kind of muddies up the water a bit...doesnt make a nice clean story that we are all so used to hearing. Adam was supposed to be kicked out after taking a bite from the fruit! After all, temptation isnt a sin, the action is...or is it?

All I can say, is lets look at the Word of God himself...in context, as much as it can be. Jesus said specifically, if you do it in your heart it is no different from doing the action!

Judaism teaches that the thought is indeed worse than the action.
Once the action is over, so is the deed....but a thought lingers there and stays for long periods of time. Sometimes, all our life. This rotten little seed that we allow to linger actually bears bad fruit throughout all of our lives...even if its not manifested as the actual sin that "you are not doing".
(i.e. you hate a person and you say, well I did not kill him. This hate creates other bad fruit that manifest itself in destructive relationships with all those that you meet. Oh, by the way, according to Jesus you did kill that brother.)

This is the deception and danger that lies before us. It is to close to home and to much of a burden to accept, so we change the Word of God to suit ourselves.

Now, this brings up a whole different topic.
How did Adam and Eve really get the boot? (kicked out)
After all, we see that it was not the action, but the thought that counted...and who knows how long that festered in their hearts.

This is another thing that challenges one from an evangelical background.
If its the thought that matters, what do you do with the very first chapters of Genesis?

Well Judaism has a responce to that also.

The Bible is taught on different levels called "Pardess" or P.R.D.S.
This word is hebrew for orchard and paradise. It is used here as an acronym.
- Pshat: simple or literal meaning
- Remez: the allusion or hint
- Sod: secret/hidden meaning

You will find that in Judaisim, the garden story is not taught on the Pshat level. (it is not taught as literal)
Now the teachings are quite surprising, but here I will ask you to do your own homework and see what you find and what questions this may bring up.

Gods peace
dAlen

Man fell because of fornication.

Now he has to sacrifice his Lower Self(ego) as to unite with the true "self"(our Monad) and incarnate the Christ.


Do the knowledge:

Re-entering Eden




Peace

"Human Being: According to Gnostic Anthropology, a true Human Being is an individual who has conquered the animal nature within and has thus created the Soul, the Mercabah of the Kabbalists, the Sahu of the Egyptians, the To Soma Heliakon of the Greeks: this is �the Body of Gold of the Solar Man.� A true Human Being is one with the Monad, the Inner Spirit. A true Human Being has reconquered the innocence and perfection of Eden, and has become what Adam was intended to be: a King of Nature, having power over Nature. The Intellectual Animal, however, is controlled by nature(My notes: it's lower or involutive aspect), and thus is not a true Human Being. Examples of true Human Beings are all those great saints of all ages and cultures: Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, Krishna, and many others whose names were never known by the public."

If only Eve had ate the apple she alone would have been kicked out of the Garden. Eve wasnt the first woman created for Adam you know.

Lilith was there before Eve.

[edit on 8-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]

I had a hard time following the first post, maybe cause I'm tired. From the Bible we know God told Adam not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We don't know if Eve heard, not to eat of it, from God or secondhand from Adam. Adam was with Eve when they were tempted by satan. If it was secondhand knowledge for Eve and first hand for Adam then what I've heard in Bible studies and from my pastor was Adam's sin was deliberate. I've also heard from sources that once Eve ate she would have entered the sinful state immediately, and her personality and disposition would have changed to one of fear. Adam loved Eve and when he saw her in this state, his heart went out to her. She could have been begging him to help get her back to where she was before she fell(instead of what we always see of her seducing ). He didn't know what she felt yet but could see in Eve's eyes and words and actions that what she did was serious. It doesn't let us know in the Bible how long there were between their actions. A knowledgeable Bible teacher has suggested that Adam's sin was greater because he did on purpose and seeing Eve and knowing this would happen to him ate, without a doubt on purpose(it was still sin), but did it to join her and acted out of love so that they would not be seperated. I'm throwing this out for thought, I guess we can try to put our self in their place. This isn't to say I believe this, but it does make you think.

the problem is,
although eve was inherently disagreeable,
she was made from adam...

in other words, whatever the anamoly in the woman's psyche or bad aspects of women's nature, they are inherited by man.

in other words, whatever negatives they exhibit or create, they are offset by men's posotives, when united.
This applies to men's negatives as well. When unified equally, there is a balance.
Yin / Yang
Alpha / Omega

No point in SEXIST suggestions,
understanding and identifying the benefits and necessities of the difference of the sexes is the path to a wise perspective.

Now as far as the results of our society on women, and what that invariably does to a girl's subconcious, I feel disgusted at times to instinctively judge women.

Its so strange...
Men, including me, villify women for their cruelty towards us, and we never look to why they are so inclined to be that way.

Women are contradictory in their nature...
fair enough...
But if i have sex with a woman the first time i meet her, i WILL be repelled by her willingness to do what i spend hours coercing her to do!

This, as a young man, continues to occur, and even my awareness doesnt change my instinct to say and do the right things for pussy - and then scorning her for it when she does what i wanted her to!!!!
if she didnt lay me, id be even more disapointed - just in myself.

"yin / yang", baby!

i dont adhere to any principle / religious attitude that cannot understand this, at this point

I think most are missing the whole point of the story...

You have to go back to the original (not PC) wording....

The REASON they were forbidden to eat from the tree wasn't "because I said so". It was the Tree of Knowledge. God stated that the only knowledge they needed came from the teachings of God. When they circumvented this, and were tricked into obtaining knowledge on their own, then they got the boot.

The basic essence of this whole story was as a tool of control for the church....to show that bad things happen when one tries to learn knowledge other than that provided by the church.

Do you REALLY think God would have wanted Adam to NOT be attracted to Eve? According to his own book, he wanted them to be fruitful and multiply.... Do you instead think he wanted Adam to see her simply as a baby machine? To have lust is healthy. To act upon it when it hurts others....now THAT is a sin.

Tabari I:281 �I heard him swear by Allah unequivocally, �As long as Adam was in his right mind, he would never have eaten from the tree. Eve gave him wine and got him drunk. She led him to the tree.��

Bukhari:V4B55N547 �The Prophet said, �But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.��

Tabari I:282 �The Messenger said, �Friday was the Lord of Days. On Friday, Adam was created and cast down to earth. The duration of Adam and Eve�s stay in Paradise was five hours.��

Here is ONE of my theories on why they were both banished from the garden at the same time:

Eve was told her eyes would be open and she would understand the knowledge of good and evil, thus becoming like the LORD whom both she and Adam worshipped and loved. Wanting to be like the "perfect" God she so admired, Eve took from the "tree" and when Adam saw that she hadn't died, he did the same. They weren't acting out of pride, nor did they realize that they were doing something "wrong", since until that moment they had no understanding of concepts like good/evil, or right/wrong.

Once they "ate" the "forbidden fruit" they were no longer pure beings in the sense that they were now aware of the duality of their existence. They could not just "be" anymore, and when they realized that they were no longer one with everything in the garden, they panicked.

The reason that the LORD pretended not to know why they had "covered" themselves and asked them what was wrong, was because he was giving them a chance to fess up to what they had done, and stay in the garden.
If Adam and Eve had done the honorable thing and accepted the responsibility for own mistakes, instead of trying to "pass the buck", things might have worked out differently.
As it was, Adam blamed Eve; Eve blamed the Serpent; and the LORD, seeing that they were already becoming corrupt by the knowledge they had aquired, threw them out to prevent them from learning the way to immortality as well.

and the rest is History...

Like I said, this is just one of my theories I've been pondering on the subject and it's still developing so sorry if it's confusing.

Originally posted by Tamahu
Man fell because of fornication.
Peace

I don't think so....sex was going on before the apple thing it was supposed to be the tree of "knowledge" not the tree of fornication