Fallujah will be a nightmare

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posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:28 PM
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War, because war is fun to watch.

Even the name of the operation is a sugar coated cliche, "Operation Phantom Fury", the name has little relevance to the operation at all but will be endlessly repeated by media whores for the next month. Fox will have 4 way camera's and talking heads explaining why we're doing the right thing there. As will all the other media organisations. Or they may go quiet, knowing the inevitable casualty list for this invasion may be a little too high to broadcast on the milquetoast news summaries. Show the Peterson trial instead, or dredge up some old Kobe video and splice it with the Water-Skiing squirrel. Murkans love that.

15,000 Troops surround the city equipped with the most technologically advanced weapons systems known to man ready to confront an insurgency armed with an arsenal of Soviet era weapons and improvised explosive devices. Carbombs, mines, bombs and other goodies await the forces entering the city from all directions. The insurgents are slowly being cornered and that is not wise to do to a type of fighter that will readily blow themselves up taking their own life as well as others. On the city streets Air & Naval power is useless... this is what war really boils down to.

A cold, hard fight to kill the other guy done street by street, building by building and even body by body. War on a battlefield such as this will be fought with a level of intensity that long term casualties may be unbearable for both sides. Over 1,000 American troops are already dead, what would you say if that number jumped by 250 in one day? Maybe even one hour?. Oh, they don't care about the intensity and that's just a lie because "they" don't care about casualties, "they" don't care about people and "they" are just inhuman monsters, right? It feels safe to think like that doesn't it?

We're so afraid to think that they, they being the insurgents, freedom fighters or whatever you may wish to call them are just like us. They're humans, with families and jobs and commitments who want to govern themselves as they see fit. A theocracy based on torture, suppression of rights and absolute rule of the leaders does not appeal to us, well, unless they are Saudi's. Then it's ok, because the Saudi's are just like us, right?

Shock & Awe is unleashed on Fallujah and it will make no difference, this type of combat has changed little since the days of Stalingrad and the battles of World War 2. With all the technology in the world you can't sustain a rule, you need to put the boots on the ground to do the grunt work and thats where it gets messy. Humans tend to interfere with the process. Theres no strategies to hold the city either as the war plan relies solely on killing as many insurgents as possible. If these insurgents escape then they'll move to another city and take up arms there.

Infantry will have to go across the city on a room by room level sweeping them for insurgents. Every room is a potential deathtrap to a soldier. That soldier is someones son. Theres going to be alot of calls made after this operation.

Do you even KNOW what you're supporting? A war that was based on lies and deception of false weapons that didn't exist. And what did we get in response? Saddam Hussein is a bad bad man who killed hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. Do you think this is EVER going to stop? It's not going to stop because they don't want what we're giving them. After the election is all done and dusted we can all sit down and ignore what's going on as President Bush gives another "Mission Accomplished" speech. But it will only be a matter of days before someone tries to assassinate the President and his cabinet.


Some don't believe it, but this war will also have costs in increased terrorism domestically. New Terrorists and fundamentalist sympathisers are being trained every day to hate America for the actions in Iraq. Before Sept 11th Al-Qaeda was limited to trained cells but with the actions of America and the coalition of the willing it has become an ideology that many willingly follow. I'm not an economist either so I can't put a figure on the war but I do know it cost money that could have been spent elsewhere.

Thanks George, Thanks Tony. Now Saddam and his loyalists are now responsible for the deaths of 1000+ Americans and Brits on top of that pile of Iraqi's and we're responsible for the deaths of 100,000+ civilians.

Was it worth it? War never is.







posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 06:44 PM
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Great post, One thing that I have to point out is the religious views in Iraq when Saudi does the same and I do not see US in Saudi, they are the ones that were financing terrorist groups in the middle east but US did nothing to them, most of the terrorists that executed 9/11 were from Saudi but US attacked Afghanistan and Iraq.

I am still trying to see what in the heck is going on. Is the US as bad as the terrorist after all the things that are going on in the middle east?

Does anybody know if Fallujah is sitting in a big oil puddle and that is the reason US want to flatten the place so the drilling can be faster if are not survivors in that city?

I do not get it.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 07:23 PM
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Thanks Marg.

The entire nation of Iraq sits on top of one great big oil puddle.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 07:48 PM
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I knew this thread would pop up sooner or later.

We all know that the battle for Fallujah is going to be hell. The difference is that Democrats look at it as an opportunity to critisize the administration. Let me ask you this should we just allow Fallujah to become its own sovereign nation under control of the rebels? Because if we don't go in there and suffer losses that is what we might as well do.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by BlackJackal
I knew this thread would pop up sooner or later.

We all know that the battle for Fallujah is going to be hell. The difference is that Democrats look at it as an opportunity to critisize the administration. Let me ask you this should we just allow Fallujah to become its own sovereign nation under control of the rebels? Because if we don't go in there and suffer losses that is what we might as well do.


You think this is about partisan politics?


This is about lives on the line in a situation that we should not be in. Fallujah should have never gone this far.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 08:10 PM
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Some people believe that the US is doing the will of the Iraqi people, I am not in that camp. No matter how noble the US ambitions may be, Iraqis will never accept the great intentions because it comes from the US, who is not viewed as liberators, but invaders.

The assault on Fallujah is a public relations nightmare for the US. Even if the US achieves it's goals, it still doesn't win. We will destroy any good will, and just bolster animosity.

In my opinion, the Iraqi people must guide our policy in Iraq, not big business.

We must treat the problems in Iraq, not the symptoms. The problem is that we invaded them in the first place.

I just think the US has too great of a hand in shaping Iraq into it's own economic landscape for exploitation.

Obviously, the guy we put into power, the guy who works for us, can't be trusted by the Iraqi people.

I guess my point is, we need to try some diplomacy and democracy in Iraq. True diplomacy. True democracy. Not a pre-determined outcome that is guided by the US to meet the goals of the Bush administration, not the goals of the Iraqi people.

What are the goals of the Iraqi people? I don't think the US gives a crap.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
You think this is about partisan politics?


This is about lives on the line in a situation that we should not be in. Fallujah should have never gone this far.


Yeah Right!

You could tell this was about partisan politics in the first two sentences.


Even the name of the operation is a sugar coated cliche, "Operation Phantom Fury", the name has little relevance to the operation at all but will be endlessly repeated by media whores for the next month. Fox will have 4 way camera's and talking heads explaining why we're doing the right thing there.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
You think this is about partisan politics?

No, but apparently you do, since your article does not present a balanced or honest examination of what is actually going on in Fallujah.

Sadly, this contributes nothing new to the discussion. If I want to read an article criticizing only one side of the war, there is plenty of material to choose from.

If you want to do something unique, try an honest examination of our enemies and the strategic realities developing as a very real and deadly world war -- a war we do not have the power to stop or opt out of -- continues to unfold.

Engaging in sanctimonious sophistry is something anyone can do, and all it requires is a dubious combination of selective analysis and self-righteous indignation. That may impress some people, but not anyone who has been paying attention to what is really going on.

The uneasy sense of deja vu I have reading your piece is based on the fact that I remember reading precisely the same material as this during the Vietnam War. You could simply switch the names in this article and end up with an almost verbatim "anti-war" tract from the '60s, as authored by paid agents of our enemies.

As then, the purpose of such screeds has never been to promote peace, but to undermine one side in a war. That is what is taking place here.

Denouncing only one side of a war isn't "pacifism", it's just choosing sides without having the courage to admit it.

Also, insulting Americans as the article repeatedly does has shown to be an effective way to inform readers that your opinions are founded in falsehoods and hatred, not wisdom.

If you really seek to bring truth, don't enshroud it in deceit.

Thumbs down.





[edit on 11/8/2004 by Majic]



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:10 PM
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If we are to ensure a stable environment for free and fair elections in Iraq, we must neutralize the insurgents. Fallujah is a hotbed of insurgent activity. Therefore, the utter destruction and death of all insurgents in Fallujah is necessary, and will set an example for other reactionaries in the country.......oppose Democracy, and die. What could be more fitting?



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:10 PM
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People this is about lives no american lives but Iraqi lives by the way one third of the population in Fallujah stayed in the city. Why? because that is their city and those are their homes they don't have a "Hilton" down the road to stay in.

You know how many are going to die for staying in the homes they had all their lives.

100 thousand peopel live in that city.

The coallition "thinks" that is 14 hundred insurgents, whao, it seems that killing about 60 percent of the people in that city is worth it.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
People this is about lives no american lives but Iraqi lives by the way one third of the population in Fallujah stayed in the city. Why? because that is their city and those are their homes they don't have a "Hilton" down the road to stay in.

You know how many are going to die for staying in the homes they had all their lives.

100 thousand peopel live in that city.

The coallition "thinks" that is 14 hundred insurgents, whao, it seems that killing about 60 percent of the people in that city is worth it.


In the first place, your post is difficult to read......."Hilton"?

"You know how many are going to die for staying in the homes they had all their lives." Huh?


"peopel".....is English your native language? Or can you just not spell? Same applies to 'coallition" and "whao"

The insurgents in Fallujah must be ruthlessly destroyed, with no survivors left. It's actually that simple.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
War, because war is fun to watch.

Even the name of the operation is a sugar coated cliche, "Operation Phantom Fury", the name has little relevance to the operation at all but will be endlessly repeated by media whores for the next month.


Although I am agreement with the majority of your post I would just like to comment on the start of it as quoted above. The name of an operation is not supposed to have any "relevance", something the US tends to forget at times, perhaps due to playing to the media.

Operations are given code names . . . note the word "code" . . . as part of operational security.

For example, during "Gulf War 1" it wouldn't have taken a genious to figure out that if a US unit was being deployed on "Operation Desert Shield" it was heading to the middle east, similarly, Desert Storm and Desert Sword (didn't last long enough for Desert Sword to get too much media air play). On the other hand, if you heard a unit was being deployed on Operation Granby (British name for the same thing) you may have had to think a bit harder to figure out it was heading to the same destination.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by SgtNFury
In the first place, your post is difficult to read......."Hilton"?


Rather than comment on a poster's grammar/spelling, let's concentrate on the subject at hand, mmkay?
It's terribly rude considering you have no idea if the person you're insulting is a native English-speaker or not.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:42 PM
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That really accomplished alot, should we also post these?

Nagasaki




Or how about this ?





Or how about in the European theatre







So all I can say is that the islamic fundementalists wanted a war, and now they have one....or have you forgotten?




Now I am not going to post sicker ones than that but my point is now well delivered, WAR is hell and innocent people get hurt and die! It is a fact of life. We are not perfect, we try our best to keep the civilian casulties to a minimum, even to our own detrement. Do the Terrorists try to save innocent lives? Yet people like you get "sick fun" picking pictures to show just how BAD us Americans are. You are MORBID.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:56 PM
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Thank you, edsinger. War is an ugly, nasty business. It involves the ruthless killing of your enemy That's just the way it is........no apologies to anyone who thinks otherwise, because they're wrong. Innocents sometimes get caught up in it and get in the way......bummer, but it happens. In Fallujah, the stakes are too high.....all resistance must be ruthlessly crushed....no exceptions. An example must be made.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 09:59 PM
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The US is too soft when it comes to war. The general populace doesn't want their boys to die in some far off land. I would say the US population compared to other societies on this earth, are generally very uneducated in the permanence of death. And so are naturally soft to soldiers dying. The gulf war spoiled them. People die in war, thats the nature of it, thats the whole point.

If we are going into fallujah, then expect casualties. If its around 1000 for the total operation then I say job well done. If its over 3000, then I say the US armed forces are damned incompetent.

Either way, the soldiers knew that when they signed up that there was a chance that they were going to die for their country. Most of them, I think, didn't bet on that actually happening. You sign up for military service, make sure you are unafraid of death, and are loyal enought to die without question for your country because that, from then on, is your duty.

I disagree with the war. There is a sense of justice that I think this war is without. However, once comitted, I don't care if our soldiers are sent on meat grinder missions. Their purpose is to kill and die. Preferably killing more than dying.

They have a job to do, and the US better man up. The US volunteer army is considered a professional army. It is in no way professional. We have 19 year old troops with sub 95 IQs who act like pre-teens at the paintball courses I play at, despite their training.

Fallujah is going to be pretty bloody. The war is unjust. That doesnt mean 1000 US soldiers deaths is anything to whine about. Yes, there will be more terrorists, that cant be changed now. Lets just get it over with and ride out the storm.

EDIT: one other thing. Civilians die in modern warfare. Yep, its a fact. Usually in greater numbers than soldiers. Fire bombing of dresden and tokyo killed a bunch. I think people need to learn what war is really about. People die. It is the most radical form of politics a country can commit to in order to get its way. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are going to die. Thats something that people are going to have to live with. If someone invaded the US with a serious military and a serious mind. More civilians would probably die than soldiers. Its just what happens. I don't mean to sound jaded. It's just real life. You're going to have to get your heads around it. I feel that most of you would understand better if somone you knew or was close to died violently infront of you. Its just something that happens.

[edit on 8-11-2004 by Galvatron]



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 10:03 PM
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Ed, Islamic fundamentalists wanted a war? What's that have to do with Iraq?
Nothing.
Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, ok. Iraq? Why in the hell are we there in the first place?
Oh yeah, WMDs. No, Saddam was a dictator. No, he harbored terrorists. Oil for food! So much flip-flopping my head is getting dizzy.
Is it because "they hate our freedom"? Kind of simplistic, if you ask me. Not the whole picture. But hey, if you believe that, spot on. It's obvious you believe that the a-bomb on Japan was necessary too.
Wow. That's all I can say.

SgtNFury, how many languages do you know? How many are you proficient in? Or can you speak and write all of them flawlessly.

I have a problem writing in English, but that is because I have a mild form of dyslexia. Want to make fun of that too?

It's so much easier to mock someone else, when you have no point. Just say say that you are wrong, instead of trying to mask it in a veil of insults.

Show some character.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Galvatron
Either way, the soldiers knew that when they signed up that there was a chance that they were going to die for their country. Most of them, I think, didn't bet on that actually happening. You sign up for military service, make sure you are unafraid of death, and are loyal enough to die without question for your country because that, from then on, is your duty.


Die without question?

Soldiers don't just sign their life away. There is an expressed agreement that the NCO corps and officer corps is going to take care of them. That their country is going to take care of them, and not to send them to a senseless death.

I'm so sick of "well, they signed up". Read the NCO creed. Every fellow NCO I've ever met takes that very seriously.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 10:13 PM
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Actually, the Abomb WAS needed as it saved million of japanese and American lives.


Look whether you want to believe it or not, Saddam DID support terrorists, funny so does Iran, Syria, etc

The war in Iraq IS related to 911, whether you can see that or not is moot. We are there and we have a job to do. Capitulation has never been repected in the Arab world, strength is. Maybe the other 2 nations will realize that we mean business and will stop this # before it gets out of hand.

You can believe what you will, but in the big picture, history will show the importance of the Iraq war.



posted on Nov, 8 2004 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by SgtNFury


"peopel".....is English your native language? Or can you just not spell? Same applies to 'coallition" and "whao"

The insurgents in Fallujah must be ruthlessly destroyed, with no survivors left. It's actually that simple.


You know onces in a while when a new member shows up trying to get me for my spelling I try to laught about it but with you I will tell you to denied ignorance read my signature instead of looking at my avatar you may learn somethig, for now I am done with your remark.

By the way expert, my husband is a 22 year retired marine.

[edit on 8-11-2004 by marg6043]





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