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Why disclose?

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posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 11:52 AM
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Is disclosure just wishful thinking? These beings/ETs have always operated in semi-secrecy. That is their modus operandi. It seems to have worked for them up to this point and they don't seem to have any intentions to change this. The UFO appearences and their cavorting abroad in the vapours is an advertising campaign. They want to get the attention of a few people who can serve their purposes but drive away the rest.

Why would they disclose their presence in a more comprehensive way? What purpose would it serve? They seem to want to remain semi-secret and clandestine.

Then there is the question of the Church. How would religious people react if they made themselves known? They would be asked about God. Is there a God? If they answer 'no' they will be seen by many as an antichrist. Already some people are seeing them in these terms. If they answer 'yes' they will be expected to act accordingly. They might not want to...

It is a very big deal for them to make themselves known to humanity at large.

Government disclosure is another matter, but again, the question is 'What purpose would it serve?'. Any comments?
edit on 5-7-2013 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


Hmm... I get the feeling that you have some preconcieved ideas about the whole subject, from what you are saying here.

For a start, if alien lifeforms step out of the shadows, that will not be disclosure, that will be a revalation. If however, the governments of the world step forward and tell us all, that yes, for decades, perhaps longer, we have for a certainty been visited by extra terrestrial lifeforms, in advanced space vehicles, THAT would be disclosure.

What you seem to be after is a revalation, from what you have written in this OP. Seems to me that you couldnt give a God damn about disclosure by the government of the secrets that they have kept from the people.



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 01:16 PM
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On the contrary I would like to see disclosure, if not on behalf of the ufonauts, at least on behalf of the government. But what I am getting at is that these issues are complex and there are layers of politics and agends behind them. What I am saying is that the government will not disclose things because people demand it. They will only do so if they have a reason - and probably a selfish reason at that. So I am asking, what reason would the government have to disclose this? I don't see any, but I might be missing something.

Equally, the ufonauts will not disclose/reveal themselves unless they have good reason. So, my question is; What reasons can they have to disclose themselves? Are they going to tell the truth simply because it is the truth or are they going to play a game? And how are they going to cope with the reaction of religion? Would their consideration of religious reactions stop them or moderate the way they would disclose their presence? I doubt that the government will disclose anything just because a few people want them to...
edit on 5-7-2013 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 01:34 PM
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Can you talk to a tree? Go ahead, talk to a tree. Try in your own language. A tree lives with sounds and wind and water and sunlight in a language that is slow and not human.

You live here with trees. They are your fellow Terrans.

And you think we can talk to aliens? Sorry, nonsense. Advanced civilizations capable of nano technology and beyond will not send metal discs full of pilots around our world. It's irrational.



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


This is what I mean. You seem you have already made your mind up on what is out there, or if not precisely what, that there is something there at least.

While I am perfectly aware that mathematically we cannot be the only intelligent life in the universe, none of the evidence I have seen adds up to proof positive. Until I see enough evidence to PROVE that alien beings have visited our planet, I cannot say that they have, because that would be a matter of faith, rather than of knowledge. Faith has its place, but not in matters such as these.

Faith is knowing without seeing. All other things but faith should be examined with reason, science and logic. If, using these tools, nothing can be said for certain (which it certainly cannot in this case) then one must wait until further data emerges which proves one way or another, what the truth is. Now, wether this comes from disclosure by government, or by social networks beating the government to the punch on a forensic investigation of an abduction, or a UFO landing, or a contact situation, it MUST come, before I can consider our planet being visited by aliens, as anything other than a remote possibility.

To treat the subject in any other way shows a lack of objectivity, scientific awareness, mental fortitude, and ultimately cheapens the entire area of research which comprises UFO and Alien studies. It is this lack of reason and objectivity which so frequently deters serious scientific figures from becoming involved with the topic.



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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If we are to accept the idea that aliens are here....then we also have to accept:

1) The aliens want it kept a secret.
2) World governments want it kept a secret.

Now, generally, the reason to keep something a secret is that some folks won't like it when they find out. So, for disclosure to happen, ONE of the two parties must have SOMETHING to gain from the release of info. Until that happens, disclosure won't happen either.



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by Gazrok
 


I agree with Gazrok and if you would like my opinion it prolly is both.

If the aliens want to keep it secret, then there is a very good chance that the world gov'ts want to keep it secret. Seeing as how they both have something to hide.

-SAP-
edit on 5-7-2013 by SloAnPainful because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 02:40 PM
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Maybe in every universe where we had disclosure, we subsequently destroyed ourselves while assimilating the suddenly exponential technological advance, so we constantly find ourselves in a universe with no disclosure



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
If we are to accept the idea that aliens are here....then we also have to accept:

1) The aliens want it kept a secret.
2) World governments want it kept a secret.

Now, generally, the reason to keep something a secret is that some folks won't like it when they find out. So, for disclosure to happen, ONE of the two parties must have SOMETHING to gain from the release of info. Until that happens, disclosure won't happen either.


The big part of this is, the very first word; "IF".
Governments, or elements of governments are more than likely not in cahoots with foreign, non-human intelligences.
Additionally, from a spy-craft and security angle, it's even advantageous to perpetuate myths of spooky interactions as smokescreen and tight-lipped wink, wink, nudge, nudge reason for keeping fidelity with the myth.

However, IF there are indeed such spooky interactions and relationships, what reason and to what advantage would any government or government agencies gain from showing such a card?
Besides the weaker argument over some imagined fear of public hysteria, the greater concern with positions and agencies wielding any kind of power and influence is how their power and influence will be effected.

Disclosure, whether revealing a purpose perpetuated smokescreen myth, or revealing real interaction with spooky non-human/non-terrestrial agencies would likely brook zero advantage for anyone holding the keys to any doors that might open onto such answers.

Disclosure, in whatever capacity, whether of a purpose perpetuated spy craft bogeyman myth, or real interactions would be equivalent to (for whatever agencies such might effect) becoming a Buddhist Monk, giving up all money, possessions, titles, home, occupation, everything; the entire contents of whatever magic box of secrets they hold which likely defines their very existence as an agency, or branch of agency.

In the case of MOD release of reports about UFOs, there's no meat, no smoking guns, no real actual evidence of anything worthwhile, and no material such that would implicate anyone in any activities they may wish not to be implicated for.
Anything released by any government or government agency will contain more of the same.

IF anyone's holding any secrets, they stand to gain no long term advantage in releasing such.
Even if the secret put out in the open would have no detrimental effect on them, it's still a secret that could be leveraged at a later date for advantage somewhere else.



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by GazrokSo, for disclosure to happen, ONE of the two parties must have SOMETHING to gain from the release of info. Until that happens, disclosure won't happen either.


Exactly as I am thinking myself. But another possibility is that someone's hand will be forced. What if, as some say, there is conflict between these ufonauts? What if there is conflict between government and ufonauts? Between governments and governments? Could this conflict force someone's hand? But as you say, it is a high stakes game with a complex agenda and nobody's going to come clean unless they get an advantage.

I think all factions have a 'list' of positives and negatives. They look at the positives of disclosure and the negatives and make a decision. Perhaps they have all already made their decision?

TrueBrit - I deliberately used the word 'ufonauts' to remain neutral on the issue of whether they are ETs but personally I think they are ETs.

Druscilla - 20 years ago the researcher, Jenny Randles, said that the debate about whether UFOs exist is over. The evidence is overwhelming. The next question might be "Who owns the pilot's license for these things?"



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 03:25 PM
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First assumption you make: There is something to disclose.
Second assumption you make: It has anything to do with aliens.

And that's why "UFO researchers" are always seen as clowns. Assumptions, wild conclusions, with no evidence to support these theories other than "So-and-so says he was abducted/saw a ufo/is an alien hybrid".

The more probable answer is that the government is always testing new tech and allows for the general populous who from time to time, sees it, to keep believing their alien stories because it helps keep things quiet and away from potential enemy hands.
edit on 5-7-2013 by WilliamOckham because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


I like where Gazrok went with this and I will add something because the answers went every which way.

"If" they are here why don't they disclose~

Universal Laws/Cosmic Laws: They cannot disclose to a civilizations that is not ready. It's as easy as that. Now where you take it from here, where ever you want. But to believe in Aliens you would ultimately have to believe in Universal Laws that are greater than that of the Earth.

Just my pennies for some change peeeez



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by sulaw
Universal Laws/Cosmic Laws: They cannot disclose to a civilizations that is not ready.


If the stories about abductions have any truth in them (See: Dr. Karla Turner) then these beings don't have any moral scruples and are not likely to observe universal laws. These beings seem driven, hungry...
edit on 5-7-2013 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by EnPassant
The next question might be "Who owns the pilot's license for these things?"


Most of what you see and/or hear about are, most likely secret craft or some type of unmanned drones.

To me the theory of "UFO's are alien spacecraft" seems kind of unlikely. I am no debunker because I know UFOs are real. But the story of "UFO's are alien spacecraft" makes for a great cover story for secret black budget aircraft being tested or flying crafts where they don't belong. "UFO sighted over restricted air space in China" When really that UFO could have been a secret craft doing some secret spying without anyone being responsible for it, because it's a UFO.

That doesn't mean that EVERY craft being witnessed it a secret gov't project, but if I had to put a figure on it I would say that 90% of them are of Earth origin.

Just a theory of mine.

-SAP-



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


Since the very first ufo sightings, we have grown enormous leaps and bounds as far as culture, technology and communication...

We how ever have not made any noticeable advancement as far as understanding UFOs, where they come from or Aliens.

Literally no further. Rather than blurry paintings, eye witness accounts of the far past, or blurry photographs of the not so distant past, we have today blurry photos, blurry videos, and the same eye witness accounts.

In the blurry videos or pictures there is no way to definitively say one way or another..

Almost every clear video or picture turns out to be a blatant hoax.

The story is the same as it has always been but there are no new pieces of information it seems.



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by EnPassant
Is disclosure just wishful thinking? These beings/ETs have always operated in semi-secrecy. That is their modus operandi. It seems to have worked for them up to this point and they don't seem to have any intentions to change this. The UFO appearences and their cavorting abroad in the vapours is an advertising campaign. They want to get the attention of a few people who can serve their purposes but drive away the rest.

Why would they disclose their presence in a more comprehensive way? What purpose would it serve? They seem to want to remain semi-secret and clandestine.

Then there is the question of the Church. How would religious people react if they made themselves known? They would be asked about God. Is there a God? If they answer 'no' they will be seen by many as an antichrist. Already some people are seeing them in these terms. If they answer 'yes' they will be expected to act accordingly. They might not want to...

It is a very big deal for them to make themselves known to humanity at large.

Government disclosure is another matter, but again, the question is 'What purpose would it serve?'. Any comments?
edit on 5-7-2013 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)



You bring up some very good points. I tend to believe that the Ufonauts like to keep their subculture to be treated by our fellow Earthlings as: "you can look but you can't touch" type of category. Any violent encounter between us and the Ufonauts and/or their starships, might be met with swift and violent retribution by the otherworlder's; if they think that any interstellar starship technology might fall into our hands. With the U.S. Federal government failing to fully disclose, allows them free reign to proceed with secret programs that exonerates them ---- in the public eye --- too any chance violent encounter with the Ufonauts and/or their starships.

This scenario...will not only partially shift the balance of galactic power to untrusted Earthlings, such as ourselves, but the revelation --- that a certain country on our planet has achieved interstellar starship technology ---- might make enemy governments on our planet, plan to use a nuclear first strike, since the balance of power would be shifted to any goverment that has achieved starship technology in order to subjugate the masses with tyranny and imperialism --- that would give the religious institutions giving gung-ho support to any government that supports the religious conversion of the exploited masses.
edit on 5-7-2013 by Erno86 because: added a word

edit on 5-7-2013 by Erno86 because: spelling



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by TrueBritTo treat the subject in any other way shows a lack of objectivity, scientific awareness, mental fortitude, and ultimately cheapens the entire area of research which comprises UFO and Alien studies. It is this lack of reason and objectivity which so frequently deters serious scientific figures from becoming involved with the topic.


I think the real reason proper scientists are deterred is the way the subject has been treated by government/cia. It has been ridiculed and sane people have been threatened, laughed at and ostracised. The very fact that the subject has been attacked with such ridicule is evidence that something is being hidden. And I doubt it is all secret military stuff. Sightings go way back to the dirigibles-
en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 5-7-2013 by EnPassant because: typo



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Erno86
I tend to believe that the Ufonauts like to keep their subculture to be treated by our fellow Earthlings as: "you can look but you can't touch" type of category.


"Look but don't touch" is a tease. When these ufonauts appear in the skies they are engaged in an advertising campaign: Look, we're here! They want to attract attention but they want to drive away 99% of the people. They want to sift out a few who can serve them. In this respect the disclosure project itself is part of the advertising campaign - it gets attention and draws people to them. These beings are adept at psychological manipulation, both on an individual level and on a mass level. They themselves control people's level of belief in them.
edit on 5-7-2013 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 04:33 PM
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Disclosure/revelation whatever you like to call it has been happening worldwide whenever someone has a sighting/close encounter. The americans need to de-centre themselves and from their ufology mythos. It is a worlwide phenomena. And it is quite discernible from advanced and secret USAF craft capable of high mach or orbital flights (call it the Solar Warden fleet).

There is a saying thats something like this: "If it is triangular it´s ours, if it is of another shape, then it´s theirs". This isn´t litteral but it kind helps some folks to differentiate "those exotic craft" in the skies.

Of course, that´s an all new level, when someone has an close encounter (CE). Then the margin for misinterpretation falls quite steeply.

The amount of sightings/CE in the region of Europe where I live is very significant (even discounting 90% of them as hoaxs, misidentification of some sort, sattelites, light/atmospheric natural phenomena, etc).

It really doesn´t matter if your government publicizes or not the information they might possess on this subject.
Even it does not matter if you´re a believer or a die hard skeptic.

When you see/witness/experiment a sighting/close encounter all your doubts about this subject (UFO/Visitors) are blown away.



posted on Jul, 5 2013 @ 07:04 PM
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People who seriously investigate these matters would gain very much by investigating the phenomenon itself and not spending time trying to get disclosure. It's a dead end

People who work in real governmental or military secrecy know a few things:

1) Never keep any records of extremely smoking guns. Burn it and forget it ever happened.
2) Never keep anything in networked computers. If you need to store records, store them only in physical vaults/ safes. In places not even a president would have access to.
3) The need to know basis would actually mean you cant disclose what you don't know exist.



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