You Are A Slave!

reply to post by jiggerj

You just finished saying how we learn traditions and languages, and begin acting like those around us. Well, those around me are mostly Christians. Should I worship that god merely because it's a local thing to do? If I move to Saudi Arabia should I worship that god because it's a local thing to do?

NO, not as an adult but you too are influenced by your surroundings and events and are living a life reacting to these things.
I don't know your family background or how you were raised as a kid etc, maybe you should think how much are you a product of your past and having a belief based on reactions to some past events.

reply to post by jiggerj

It's the same in the animal kingdom. Alpha males rule. It's a natural thing.

Is it?
so if a younger guy beats you and defeats you then you will metaphorically hide you tail between your legs and SUBMIT and take his belief?

I think many become atheists because they resist and react to a illogical belief being forced on them.

reply to post by arpgme

How do you know? Just because you don't have memory of something happening doesn't mean it didn't. Some people remember being spirits choosing all of this. They call it "Before Life Experiences".

i don't know. Its possible but i cannot include it as a fact because then all unseen/unknown claims have to be taken as facts. People have seen hell etc in NDEs. So do you believe in Hell?
There is justification available to try and proof many beliefs, i am making a statement based on what can be observed and that still stands. I am also suggesting a belief but thats a seperate point.
So are you not a slave in some way or other?

reply to post by arpgme

Maybe, but it's possible to gain more freedom of thought by listening to many different perspectives and then choose which feels best to you.

i agree that for sure.

Which one? And how do you know we are
'supposed' to be slaves of something?
Did the one enslaving you tell you that
you were 'supposed' to be enslaved?
I'm sure even human slave-masters
said the same back then.

There is just One Creator.

If we are going to base our behaviour on certain influences then wouldn't it be best to base it on someone who is All Knowing?(provided that we have that guidance ofcourse)

Basing it on reasoning is argueable as reasoning is limited and fallible.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

It's not what you said. Enlighten me, what dominating influence are we "completely subservient" to?

how many social things you do just because its a norm? How much are you even aware that they are just actions of social confirmity?

How much of a sheep are you? I don't know if you have questioned all the things you believe and do but if you haven't or rather just seeked justifications to confirm them. I don't know you much so its you who knows best.

reply to post by logical7


Some truth in your lies and some lies in your truth.

People do not even understand what choice actually is anymore and throw around textbook nonsense passed down from other people.

Think about any life choice anyone makes these days. The first thing people do is ask...

Another person what to do...

Read an opinion based book or loose theory on what to think about something...

Look it up on the internet...

Watch a documentary...

Watch the news...

List goes on and on.

The key thing here is that we are living in a bubble of everyone else's choices, wisdom and life experience passed on from person to person. We are nothing but watered down drones mostly.

You are only free if you follow your own path regardless of what another tells you. Anytime you seek advice you are at the givers mercy, that is slavery but it is choice so it is still freedom to choose. So if asking other people is a form of slavery, what does that mean?

Don't believe the bubble and look within before rushing to others, it is all there to see if you just go with the flow...

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

 

I think i'd like being his friend better than his slave. He considered Abraham his friend, not his slave.

then you should bring it into your actions and refrain using words like "Lord", "Master"etc
About Abraham pbuh, God gave it as a title to him, other prophets got titles too like Jesus pbuh is the Word of God.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

It's not what you said. Enlighten me, what dominating influence are we "completely subservient" to?

how many social things you do just because its a norm? How much are you even aware that they are just actions of social confirmity?

How much of a sheep are you? I don't know if you have questioned all the things you believe and do but if you haven't or rather just seeked justifications to confirm them. I don't know you much so its you who knows best.

I think k at this point you should look up the terms "complete" and " subservient", then readdress my last post again.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by jiggerj

 

You just finished saying how we learn traditions and languages, and begin acting like those around us. Well, those around me are mostly Christians. Should I worship that god merely because it's a local thing to do? If I move to Saudi Arabia should I worship that god because it's a local thing to do?

NO, not as an adult but you too are influenced by your surroundings and events and are living a life reacting to these things.
I don't know your family background or how you were raised as a kid etc, maybe you should think how much are you a product of your past and having a belief based on reactions to some past events.

I know we are a product of our past and our upbringing. I was just lucky enough to see through the folly of my christian environment.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by jiggerj

 

It's the same in the animal kingdom. Alpha males rule. It's a natural thing.

Is it?

so if a younger guy beats you and defeats you then you will metaphorically hide you tail between your legs and SUBMIT and take his belief?

In a word, yes, but on a much grander scale because there's so many of us. We adhere to the Alpha male called government. If another country were to take over my country, then we either submit or die. Look at what's going on in Egypt. One belief system is in constant battle with another belief system. Sooner of later one side must win out.

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

 

I think i'd like being his friend better than his slave. He considered Abraham his friend, not his slave.

then you should bring it into your actions and refrain using words like "Lord", "Master"etc
About Abraham pbuh, God gave it as a title to him, other prophets got titles too like Jesus pbuh is the Word of God.

God never commanded us to refer to him by his titles, but by his name. He said "go and proclaim my name to the nations" not "go and proclaim my titles to the nations".

Psalm 105:1

Oh, give thanks to the Lord!
Call upon His name;
Make known His deeds among the peoples!

Please tell me in some proven scientific manner , not some new agey philosophy , the alternate choice to being born as a child . You can't make choices as a newborn because we don't have the capacity to choose at that age. If this makes us slaves, so be it but better to come into this world a slave and have a chance to live life the way you want vs never being born.

Actually in reading your OP a few times again I see this is a religious themed post so I will stay out.. I am personally not a religious person but that doesn't make my thoughts correct for anyone else. I try and stay out of all religious threads here as people just push whatever agenda they have be it pro or against.

Originally posted by logical7
If we are supposed to be slaves of something then why not be slaves of our Creator?

nice thread. I have been thinking that some one should start such a thread. I think this is the true freedom. as this poet says:

Openly I admit with much joy and such glee;
Enslaved to your love (God !) from both worlds I am free. -Hafez

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

what about being servant of God or submission to God, do we have such concepts in Christianity ? if so, their meaning is near the word "slave". however we are not that slave, because we have free will. and God is not in need of us, but we are in need of him ! the only word that I think it can describe such a relation between creatures and the creator is "Love". then it is the true love !!

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by jiggerj

 

In a word, yes, but on a much grander scale because there's so many of us. We adhere to the Alpha male called government. If another country were to take over my country, then we either submit or die. Look at what's going on in Egypt. One belief system is in constant battle with another belief system. Sooner of later one side must win out.

we can consider that Love ! is not love some sort of slavery !! but a slavery because of need not humiliation ! lovers are in need of their almighty God. I think thanks to your environment you can digest this word (love) better than simple slavery

reply to post by maes2

what about being servant of God or submission to God, do we have such concepts in Christianity ?

John 15:12-17 (spoken by Jesus)

12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. 17 These things I command you, that you love one another.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I think k at this point you should look up the terms "complete" and " subservient", then readdress my last post again.

who said that it always have to be complete?
You did that before you got the ability to reason and now you have woven a cover of reasons over unverified ideas and started believe them as your own and so don't feel subservient.
The best(worst) slavery is when the enslaved deludes himself/herself as free!
If you feel obliged to follow patterns set by the society then you are a slave.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

 

I think i'd like being his friend better than his slave. He considered Abraham his friend, not his slave.

then you should bring it into your actions and refrain using words like "Lord", "Master"etc
About Abraham pbuh, God gave it as a title to him, other prophets got titles too like Jesus pbuh is the Word of God.

God never commanded us to refer to him by his titles, but by his name. He said "go and proclaim my name to the nations" not "go and proclaim my titles to the nations".

Psalm 105:1

Oh, give thanks to the Lord!
Call upon His name;
Make known His deeds among the peoples!

what the above reply has to do anything with the topic?

You tried to put your religion in good light by implying that being a friend is better than being a slave and i suggested you to put your actions where your words are and call God as friend and not Lord etc.

Also if you think you are worthy of being a friend of God like Abraham pbuh then you should be ready to go through hardships and tests as he went and obeyed God even to the extent of being ready to sacrifice his son.
In short to become a friend of God you have to become a perfect slave 1st !

reply to post by logical7

Also if you think you are worthy of being a friend of God like Abraham pbuh then you should be ready to go through hardships and tests as he went and obeyed God even to the extent of being ready to sacrifice his son.

I sacrifice my own body. That is what a christian is, we are living sacrifices to the Lord. I've been through my share of hardships and still give glory to the Lord. I am a living testament of his power, love and mercy. I live in a dessicated and diseased body and although I once counted it as a curse, I now see it was a blessing.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7

 

Also if you think you are worthy of being a friend of God like Abraham pbuh then you should be ready to go through hardships and tests as he went and obeyed God even to the extent of being ready to sacrifice his son.

I sacrifice my own body. That is what a christian is, we are living sacrifices to the Lord. I've been through my share of hardships and still give glory to the Lord. I am a living testament of his power, love and mercy. I live in a dessicated and diseased body and although I once counted it as a curse, I now see it was a blessing.

Forgot to mention we are in the new covenant. Jesus said He no longer calls us servants, but friends.