Clues about autism may come from the gut

there is more and more evidence of Bacterial flora inhabiting the human gut,
playing a major part in all sorts of different conditions.

this means any chemicals ingested could kill off the healthy bacteria that keep us healthy.

the recent ats thread about pigs stomachs being degraded from gmo consumption should come as a warning,

Controversy surrounds the apparent explosive rise in autism cases. Heightened awareness of autism spectrum disorders and more diligent efforts at diagnosis must account for some of the increase, yet many researchers believe a genuine epidemic is occurring. In addition to hereditary components, Western-style diets and overuse of antibiotics at an early age may be contributing to the problem by lowering the diversity of the gut microflora.

www.sciencecodex.com...

IF the toxic effect of BT poison and stomach damage from GMO ingestion damages the micro-flora communities in your gut there may be long term effects on your health.

the study of these gut microbes in increasing at a very fast rate as the scientific community recognises the very important job the preform for our bodies.

it would look like any food that kills off healthy gut bacteria that could effect,

Lower diversity of gut microbes was positively correlated with the presence of autistic symptoms in the study. The authors stress that bacterial richness and diversity are essential for maintaining a robust and adaptable bacterial community capable of fighting off environmental challenges. "We believe that a diverse gut is a healthy gut," Krajmalnik-Brown says.

it could also be aggravating other problems like diabetes.

One of the reasons we started addressing this topic is the fact that autistic children have a lot of GI problems that can last into adulthood," Krajmalnik-Brown says. "Studies have shown that when we manage these problems, their behavior improves dramatically."

www.sciencecodex.com...

if we look at our gut microbes like a healthy community,
it makes me ask the question what does eating GMOs with there built in poisons do to our gut microbes,
and could the rise of microbe killing BT toxins be the first cause in autism?

i am not a doctor and this is not intended as medical advice, consult your doctor for medical advice
but you should be aware that your gut has microbes that could be the key to good health,
do you really want to eat foods that kill of our macrobiotic, symbiotic health regulators?

xploder

You seem to be combining two topics and drawing conclusions.

Now this would be a good idea, the problem is you are combining two unrelated things, and one is a faulty assumption. Specifically you are saying that GM food kills gut bacteria. This is a faulty assumption with no science backing it up. You're changing what the study involving GM food actually says.

This would've been a keen observation/conclusion, but it's based on faulty premises.

Originally posted by Ghost375
You seem to be combining two topics and drawing conclusions.

Now this would be a good idea, the problem is you are combining two unrelated things, and one is a faulty assumption. Specifically you are saying that GM food kills gut bacteria. This is a faulty assumption with no science backing it up. You're changing what the study involving GM food actually says.

This would've been a keen observation/conclusion, but it's based on faulty premises.

im not surprised your the one first on the thread with a reply.
that said

are you trying to imply that GMOs dont harm gut health?
if so please supply all the thousands of safety studies that back up your counter claim that GMOs dont harm gut health.

secondly if you cant see that food and gut are connected i dont know what to say to you

poison in food goes through the gut where the bacteria live,
low levels of good bacteria have a positive corrilation with autism

if your confused as to why this is related maby its cause it suits your modus operandi.

xploder

Dr Andrew Wakefield was working on exactly that!
He noticed that nearly every child suffering from autism had serious gut problems caused by bacteria!
I think he was researching the idea that the bacteria got there via the vaccines.
We all know what happened to Dr Wakfield, and personally I see that as good evidence that he was right.

I have a special interest in this, and fragile-x but it's late here now, and I will look in later today. Thanks to the OP.

reply to post by VoidHawk


I'm an Auts and I've had (and have) terrible digestive issues. I have a lonnnnnnng list of (healthy!) foods my system utterly will NOT -tolerate- .

My gut was pretty messed up for several years, and it took a ton of work & research to get it straightened out.

- Quit eating processed foods
- Quit consuming HFCS, and simple sugars
- Quit soda
- Quit unfiltered water
- Quit consuming from melted #1 plastic (look at the triangle on the bottom of container)
- Quit microwaving foods

- Start taking different probiotics.
- Alternate repopulating gut with wiping gut/systemic pathogens (I like essential oils for this)
- Strive for whole foods with as much organic labeling as you can afford
- Try to take some supplements initially to replenish depleted vitamin & mineral stores

Overall, improving your diet, and cleaning up the gut has helped tremendously. I have solid stools regularly, less stress, more social skills, and more energy.

I'd also suggest to exercise regularly, as I think improving general fitness goes a long way to improving overall health.

reply to post by misschareesee


HI
You probably know more than me, but one of the things Dr Wakefield and co were working on was which foods could be tolerated by sufferers.
I followed the legal side of what took place more than the actual research he was doing so I'm not sure what conclusions were made concerning food. I do know though that food (Clean healthy food) was not the cause of the autism. His research indicated that the vaccines had damaged the guts natural (good) bacteria, and that allowed bad bacteria to get out of balance.
Just like alcohol goes from the stomach to the brain, so do other things, and his research was going towards the idea that the vaccine damage to the stomach was the reason the brain was being damaged.

Originally posted by QuantriQueptidez
My gut was pretty messed up for several years, and it took a ton of work & research to get it straightened out.

- Quit eating processed foods
- Quit consuming HFCS, and simple sugars
- Quit soda
- Quit unfiltered water
- Quit consuming from melted #1 plastic (look at the triangle on the bottom of container
- Quit microwaving foods

- Start taking different probiotics.
- Alternative repopulating gut with wiping gut/systemic pathogens (I like essential oils for this)
- Strive for whole foods with as much organic labeling as you can afford
- Try to take some supplements initially to replenish depleted vitamin & mineral stores

Overall, improving your diet, and cleaning up the gut has helped tremendously. I have solid stools regularly, less stress, more social skills, and more energy.

I'd also suggest to exercise regularly, as I think improving general fitness goes a long way to improving overall health.

Thats some very good advice

Take notice people!

Originally posted by XPLodER
it makes me ask the question what does eating GMOs with there built in poisons do to our gut microbes,
and could the rise of microbe killing BT toxins be the first cause in autism?

Unlikely. Twin studies show that autism has a strong genetic component. Siblings eat the same food as each other, so if autism were caused by food, fraternal twins would be autistic at the same rate as identical twins, and they are not. If this correlation is real, I suspect the causation goes the other way. Whatever causes autism also causes these problems with gut bacteria.

Originally posted by XPLodER
poison in food goes through the gut where the bacteria live,

This is true. And the internal flora is vital to a healthy body, in more ways that digestion. There is an entire nervous system contained in the gut, almost as intricate as the one in our brain, and it does a lot more than merely rtelay "Im full, hungry, sick" to the brain. Whatever we ingest, be it chemical, poison, nutrition, affects this 'stomach brain' and we barely give any notice to this.

But you're claiming something here that breaks easily when you think; We've been eating poisons for centuries. We've been playing with the food chain as long as we've been introducing foreign elements that create a better crop, stock, feed.

You can't say we've been living healthy and fine and dandy all this time but now the gmos are killing our internal bugs, look at the bad gmos!!!

It's been happening all along. I don't doubt there are things to be concerned about when it comes to gmo foods, but I don't see how, compared to the absolute amount of poisons we ingest daily just by breathing, it can be on that level of concern.

Not only that, but our internal flora was established over thousands of years to help us live in an environment where we had a very different diet than we do today. Everything is processed today. Everything is contaminated with innocent little colours and preservatives. Our gut doesn't thank us for that. It's no surprise everyone is cranky, we've all got IBS and we don't know any better.

I'm more concerned about what evolution will say about gmo. Humans are too stupid to think ahead, we live in the NOW and any tomorrows that decrease todays dollar value are unimportant and to be avoided. But we don't exist in the day for more than a day. And by time tomorrow has come and we're going "Oh yeah that was a bad idea." it's too late.

Originally posted by XPLodER
are you trying to imply that GMOs dont harm gut health?
if so please supply all the thousands of safety studies that back up your counter claim that GMOs dont harm gut health.
No, I clearly state that there's no evidence GM harm gut bacteria. You pulled that claim out of your ass. It's not my job to provide thousands of studies to prove they don't harm gut bacteria, it's YOUR job to provide ONE study that shows they do harm gut bacteria.

secondly if you cant see that food and gut are connected i dont know what to say to you
All you're doing it putting words in my mouth, and not reading what I wrote.

poison in food goes through the gut where the bacteria live,
low levels of good bacteria have a positive corrilation with autism
There are chemicals that harm Eukaryotic cells, prokaryotic cells, both and neither. if one is harmed, there is absolutely no guarantee the other would be harmed. Some chemicals harm one species of animal but not another. In addendum, there's still no evidence GM food harms human cells either.

If you're going to discuss scientific matters, don't get upset when someone with more knowledge of science speaks up. Don't put words in their mouth either. That's ALL you did and you completely ignored my points.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by XPLodER
it makes me ask the question what does eating GMOs with there built in poisons do to our gut microbes,
and could the rise of microbe killing BT toxins be the first cause in autism?

Unlikely. Twin studies show that autism has a strong genetic component. Siblings eat the same food as each other, so if autism were caused by food, fraternal twins would be autistic at the same rate as identical twins, and they are not. If this correlation is real, I suspect the causation goes the other way. Whatever causes autism also causes these problems with gut bacteria.

you make some interesting points,
and i think you should be correct about the twins thing,
but i wonder if antibiotics are given to both twins when one gets sick

i am pretty sure your right about the genetic component to the problem,
but bad micro bacteria may increase visible symptoms to a point where they are noticed.

you make some good points.

xploder

Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by XPLodER
poison in food goes through the gut where the bacteria live,

This is true. And the internal flora is vital to a healthy body, in more ways that digestion. There is an entire nervous system contained in the gut, almost as intricate as the one in our brain, and it does a lot more than merely rtelay "Im full, hungry, sick" to the brain. Whatever we ingest, be it chemical, poison, nutrition, affects this 'stomach brain' and we barely give any notice to this.

But you're claiming something here that breaks easily when you think; We've been eating poisons for centuries. We've been playing with the food chain as long as we've been introducing foreign elements that create a better crop, stock, feed.

You can't say we've been living healthy and fine and dandy all this time but now the gmos are killing our internal bugs, look at the bad gmos!!!

antibiotics are reasonably new, GMOs are too so is putting BT toxin INSIDE the plants we eat.

It's been happening all along. I don't doubt there are things to be concerned about when it comes to gmo foods, but I don't see how, compared to the absolute amount of poisons we ingest daily just by breathing, it can be on that level of concern.

your doubt of damage in liew of a study PROVING safety is not very calming.

Not only that, but our internal flora was established over thousands of years to help us live in an environment where we had a very different diet than we do today. Everything is processed today. Everything is contaminated with innocent little colours and preservatives. Our gut doesn't thank us for that. It's no surprise everyone is cranky, we've all got IBS and we don't know any better.

i would point out anything that harms our levels of healthy gut flana, would not be ideal to eat.
GMOs strip vitamins from people who eat them, as stated even by the manufactures.

I'm more concerned about what evolution will say about gmo. Humans are too stupid to think ahead, we live in the NOW and any tomorrows that decrease todays dollar value are unimportant and to be avoided. But we don't exist in the day for more than a day. And by time tomorrow has come and we're going "Oh yeah that was a bad idea." it's too late.

what scares me is there is ZERO safety studies that prove this stuff is safe,
and the apoligists say show me proof,
well show me proof they are safe!!!!!!!

show me studies where the impact of GMOs on gut microbes have been carried out!!!!!

its not up to us to prove its bad, that's bad science, first do no harm, that means safety tests first.

xploder

If you're going to discuss scientific matters, don't get upset when someone with more knowledge of science speaks up. Don't put words in their mouth either. That's ALL you did and you completely ignored my points.

you have a history of turning up in debates about GMOs
and trying to control the discussion, i have previously noted this behaviour from your account.

if you want to talk about science,
show me safety tests conducted on gut bacteria and GMOs?
show me proof that BT toxin cant and hasnot entered the blood stream of nearly everyone eating it?
show me proof that prolonged consumption of GMOs does in no way harm the stomach?

its not up to me to prove safety that is for people who profit from this stuff,

i can assume the only studies you will cite is from monsanto,

but please for the record show me the saftey studies,
like the one that said BT toxin CANT enter the blood stream of the people eating it?

xploder

reply to post by misschareesee


It is not a 8 or 80 issue (it takes time to establish a balanced flora), take for instance a organ than one can easily observe like the skin and stop taking a bath (or change your engine a bit) you will quickly notice the changes in the flora that lives in your skin.

One of the best ways to destroy your gut flora is via antibiotics.

If you have dogs you may understand this better like people that say that they dog smells often give them baths to (even often using human shampoo that is not good for dogs due to their skin acidity being different etc) let the dog smell for a week or two and the smell will be gone (note that this is BO not something that the dog decided to rub itself into).

This in linked even to how a baby is born do some research and see the benefits of vaginal birth versus c-section in regards, it may be also linked with breast feeding, letting kids play in the dirt, having pets etc..

It is not only autism but asthma and even cancer and other diseases.

Bt toxin is not the only problem. Active component of Roundup - glyphosate - is also killing some types of gut bacteria and yeasts. Glyphosate is not used only with Roundup Ready GM crops but as general purpose herbicide before normal crops are planted. Once sprayed it is killing weeds, some types of soil bacteria, washed to springs amphibians and water flora, then via drinking water our gut bacteria.
However this is probably not main way how glyphosate reach our digestive systems. Take apart RR GM crops, there is technique called desication: farmers spray non-GM rye, wheat, canola ... 21 days before harvest because it stops development of crop at desired stage and helps to dry up plants. Go to Monsanto web site and check it for yourself. That is probably why 60% of (not representative) urine samples in Europe was tested positive with traces of glyphosate.

The fact that Americans are suffering from an epidemic of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, depression, and a myriad of other afflictions is based upon the food they eat.

I've been fighting with my weight since my 20s and one thing is ALWAYS been the same. I lose weight when I leave the US and gain it back when I return to the US.

I can exercise, diet and even get professional help but losing weight in the US has always been a hard fought battle.

I've traveled to over 30 different countries in the course of the last 25 years. Around 50 different trips of varying time from a few weeks to several years at a time.

Every time, every place, I lose weight and then gain it back in the states.

My health also improves when I spend extended times away from the US.

In the US our general food sources are nearly completely compromised.

Personally I believe that the main reason we are seeing an 'explosion' of autism cases is because we have a better understanding of the human psyche and the different individual traits that make up each developmental disorder. Individuals that 50 years ago were labeled 'retarded', 'slow' and 'touched in the head' now have numerous niches that they can be labeled into.





Could some cases be environmental? Of course, but the same held true with hatters of the 19th century and earlier. Or the risks of developmental disorders that were due to poor prenatal care of earlier centuries have been replaced by drug/alcohol abuse today. More than likely what cases that are environmental have simply arose while others have waned; i.e. nor more, or less prevalent statistically.

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by misschareesee

 

It is not a 8 or 80 issue (it takes time to establish a balanced flora), take for instance a organ than one can easily observe like the skin and stop taking a bath (or change your engine a bit) you will quickly notice the changes in the flora that lives in your skin.

One of the best ways to destroy your gut flora is via antibiotics.

If you have dogs you may understand this better like people that say that they dog smells often give them baths to (even often using human shampoo that is not good for dogs due to their skin acidity being different etc) let the dog smell for a week or two and the smell will be gone (note that this is BO not something that the dog decided to rub itself into).

This in linked even to how a baby is born do some research and see the benefits of vaginal birth versus c-section in regards, it may be also linked with breast feeding, letting kids play in the dirt, having pets etc..

It is not only autism but asthma and even cancer and other diseases.

edit on 4-7-2013 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-7-2013 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)

Some excellent points Panic2k11

I believe it is called the hygiene hypothesis.

Everybody needs a few parasites to keep their health in check The wonders of evolution - an arms race in my belly !