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A Non-Religious Abortion Debate

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posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Bone75
 



See you just can't do it, can you? Why CAN'T I think humans are the most special creatures on this planet without being religious?


Because that idea of us being special snowflakes is a religious one. It has been since we started thinking silly thoughts like that.

So if you believe that we above all else are special snowflakes and some how human life deserves more consideration than the ant I stepped on, then your argument against abortion is not valid.

It doesn't come from a place of science or rational thought, it comes from a narcissistic view of humanity, which was first enshrined by the religious.

The thing about an atheist or an agnostic is that we understand that all life forms have equal weight and importance in the grand scheme of things. Or the same little importance I suppose.

~Tenth


So basically you have failed to fulfill my request. You entered this thread with the intention of explaining the "circle of life" to me. That's why you asked me if life begins at fertilization. Using the general term of "life" is where ALL supporters of the pro-choice agenda make their first mistake.

Then when I stopped you dead in your tracks on that one, you pretty much jumped to the "define human" argument.

Then when I stumped you again, you jumped to "well what makes humans so special, it MUST be religion"

FAIL
FAIL
FAIL




posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 06:43 PM
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I have to say that I agree with anybody that say that "they are truly coming for your contraceptives" I was believing to be just some mad man idea or a legislation gone wrong.

But after ready the OP, lo and behold it is actually some that wants to push their agenda over control of women bodies to the max.

I should have know better, what is with the women body that drive some into the point of madness trying to control no the mind of a women but their private parts.


Been a women I can no even imagine trying to control a male private parts, but why any person groups of people affiliation wants to do that to women.

edit on 4-7-2013 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-7-2013 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Why did someone bring the taliban into this isnt that a religious organization?


we'll just X that one out I think.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I have to say that I agree with anybody that say that "they are truly coming for your contraceptives" I believing to be just some mad man idea or a legislation gone wrong.

But after ready the OP, lo and behold it is actually some that wants to push their agenda over control of women bodies to the max.

I should have know better, what is with the women body that drive some into the point of madness trying to control no the mind of a women but their private parts.


Been a women I can no even imagine trying to control a male private parts, but why any person groups of people affiliation wants to do that to women.

edit on 4-7-2013 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)


I think the point Marg is that once youre carring, it isnt just about the women (you) anymore. and since only women can carry children, it raises concerns. Maybe not so much about controlling your mind, but protecting the life you carry.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


This is interesting, so you believe that a women body should be legislated and sanctioned by law because its capabilities for procreation.

Who gave that right to men? do you happen to know?



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by Bone75
 


So Basically you have Completely Destroyed your position over a Retarded girl.

How is it O.K. for one and not the other?


Have I? You referenced one of the most despicable circumstances anyone on this Earth could ever face and I answered honestly with no fear of rebuttal. I didn't say it was O.K.

The truth is, you're fighting for the right of the stripper next door to have an abortion, and exploiting the retarded girl to justify it.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by Bone75
 


You would support over the counter male birth control then right?

Nothing sacred about the sperm to you is there, because once over the counter male birth control is available to the public its gonna spread like wildfire and this debate will be worthless.
edit on 4-7-2013 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Bone75
 


If you don't think that emotionally and physically disabled are among the highest statistics among rape victims, you're more out of touch than I thought!


And if you think rape victims abort at the same astronomical rate as willing participants, then you're more out of touch than I am.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Nephalim
 


This is interesting, so you believe that a women body should be legislated and sanctioned by law because its capabilities for procreation.

Who gave that right to men? do you happen to know?



Welll, ok look at it this way for a second. If a woman is carrying an unborn child, and someone attacks that women and causes harm to her and that baby, or causes the death of either or, I do think the attacker still gets charged. Possibly charged double or with counts. O.o See here

I would not know exactly mam, no. However, lawmakers make laws and its usually done because the people have made an issue out of something or because criminals have.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Bone75
 


You would support over the counter male birth control then right?

Nothing sacred about the sperm to you is there, because once over the counter male birth control is available to the public its gonna spread like wildfire and this debate will be worthless.


Have you not read a single word I've posted? If it prevents the sperm from entering the egg, then of course I would support it.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:09 PM
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Without the religious argument of how special humans are, how special a fertilized human egg is, it all boils down to biology and chemistry.

A fertilized egg isn't a thinking, fearing, hoping individual. It has no brain to hold these complex thoughts. It is self unaware. It has no voice, because it has no thoughts to voice. It's just a clump of cells doing what the DNA blueprint tells it to do.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:13 PM
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The truth is, you're fighting for the right of the stripper next door to have an abortion, and exploiting the retarded girl to justify it.


That was a Valid question. I am not fighting for the strippers rights. How the hell did you come up with that. Is it because you so dearly hated that I asked a valid question?

O.K. then.

How about the nurse that works in an institution that is savagely gang raped by a band of mentally retarded males. Here again she conceives and there is 99% chance the child is going to be born with serious birth defects. How about then?

Or

How about the girl who goes is pregnant that has a regular doctors visit and while she is there they draw blood for a test and it turns out that the needle they used was contaminated with HIV. Now she has it. The baby has it and is probably going to die from the infection within weeks after birth. How about then?



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


Yes the laws that passed to protect the unborn if a women was to be attacked was in deed no to protect the women but to give the fetus status in order to pursue more anti abortion laws in the country, is just that people have forgotten or in other words a victory for pro life advocates.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Bone75
 


What if a mad scientist makes you grow tumors that contain human clones.

That's a lot of mouths to feed.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by Bone75
 


First you say this:



=My position is that abortion and contraceptives that harm fertilized eggs should be illegal. I think its murder and it should be stopped.


And Then You Say this:



If it prevents the sperm from entering the egg, then of course I would support it.


That is called a contradicrion in terms. Your reasoning is Completely Fouled and your argument is losing momentum.

You can not expect to create a double standard in a debate and win do you?



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:23 PM
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Abortion is practiced mostly by the lower class, particularly black women. Insisting that it be available to all, while knowing that it is disproportionately black fetuses that will be aborted, carries definite raciallist implications. Indeed, Margaret Sanger wanted Planned Parenthood to reduce the overall number of blacks born with each generation.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:25 PM
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With 7 billion plus people on this planet I think we need more abortions. Set up booths on every street corner and have morning-after pills in vending machines. Have cash and tax-incentives for abortions; get ten abortions and win a free car.

I'm serious.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by tovenar
 


Well I live in the south (GA) and abortions are not very well practiced here because having lots of children specially from single mothers ensures a nice monthly welfare check. No wonder my neck of the woods is a very high poverty and welfare populated area. So planned parenthood is no working here.



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Nephalim
 


Yes the laws that passed to protect the unborn if a women was to be attacked was in deed no to protect the women but to give the fetus status in order to pursue more anti abortion laws in the country, is just that people have forgotten or in other words a victory for pro life advocates.



Im not so sure about that agenda, or at least that side of it. You have the right to be safe anyway, and these sort of things are designed to protect the woman and child and to go after the criminal rather than to control the woman specifically. But our bodies are already legislated over men and women, this goes back to our founding documents. Your very voice is protected by law so its there, unalienable.
edit on 4-7-2013 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 4 2013 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Marg,

I think the same problem is running rampant throughout the country.

In my area there is the same problem. When a woman has 6 kids from different fathers then there is an indication that our welfare programs are not working.
Because it should Never be O.K. to draw a check just because you have more children.




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