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A Non-Religious Abortion Debate

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posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by firemonkey
 


Again, you seem to be confused about basic biology. FACT: There is no "life fairy" that bestows life. There is no discernable beginning to life. We do not create life, we host it. Yet, life does end.

I don't make the rules, I just happen to be the bearer of news that's new to you and mysteriously seems to bypass your understanding.


There is a lot of dodging of questions in this thread.


Are you not an individual? When did you individuality begin?




posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
Why are you avoiding answering the question?


Because i dont understand what your question has to do with a pregnant woman who carries an unborn for 9 months by herself, Please explain why you're asking me the question and why its relevant.


Not all men do "nothing" for 9 months while the women is pregnant, that is an unfair statement.


So what do they do that contributes to the the growth and development of an unborn?


So after that 9 months is over...do you think the man should be held legally responsible for that baby whether he wants to or not?


Yes, because if he doesn't that baby will become a burden on the state. He shouldn't have been sleeping around. Personal responsibility and all that.
edit on 8-7-2013 by SearchLightsInc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 



No, I haven't altered my opinion. My posts speak for themselves, and this is the same opinion that I have had for a dozen years. You haven't actually addressed any points, so I will leave you to either do so, or not.


If you don't think I have addressed any of your points...please point those out and I will address them.


But why is it that you can't answer one simple question...when does an individual human life begin?



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Which men are you talking about?

Real men who impregnate women!




Quite literally, accidents happen!

Rarely! 99% is operator error!



If it was men who had to carry the unborn abortion wouldn't even be an issue, it would be legal and openly practised. There would be no stigma. Men make society work for them, Its a fact.

In your hypothetical scenario, maybe….

I think we’d have the same debate. My view certainly wouldn’t change. I’m nothing if not consistent.

I think you unintentionally touched on the real issue though….it’s a power thing for women (some call it penis envy). Thanks for the insight!




edit on 8-7-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Yes, because if he doesn't that baby will become a burden on the state. He shouldn't have been sleeping around. Personal responsibility and all that.


That's really all I needed to know from you. I can now dismiss you as a sexist that has double standards.


Your opinion really isn't valid to me because it comes from you being emotional, and not logically thinking about scientific fact.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 



I think you unintentionally touched on the real issue though….it’s a power thing for women (some call it penis envy). Thanks for the insight!


I think that is a lot of what it is.

Women who hate being women...I'm glad I married a woman who loves being a woman and loved creating, carrying, and caring for our children.

I kind of find it funny that some women act like they just can't control their vaginas so it isn't their fault if they get pregnant. Men are obviously the more sexually charged sex due to testosterone...and yet I have never had a problem controlling my penis and accidentally impregnating someone. But it seems like some women tend to think they accidentally get pregnant all the time.

I just don't get it...to me it is a maturity and responsibility thing...just because someone may be old doesn't mean they are mature.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Hahaha, men know nothing about what it feels like to be pregnant so their argument is moooooooooooot!


Men are held to a higher standard so stop whining about a little pain!



Men are held to the standards that they set for themselves. Up until and into the1900's men completely subjugated women for their own desires. Women in history had no right to work, to own or inherit property, to say no to their husbands sexual desires and were basically owned by their fathers or husbands.

Women were held to higher standard of purity and grace, covering themselves so as not to tempt men. While men were drinking, smoking, gambling and running off to fight wars that they created, women were at home cleaning and cooking. Their whole lives were supposed to be dedicated to being a devoted wife and mother.




edit on 8-7-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Which men are you talking about?

Real men who impregnate women!




Quite literally, accidents happen!

Rarely! 99% is operator error!



If it was men who had to carry the unborn abortion wouldn't even be an issue, it would be legal and openly practised. There would be no stigma. Men make society work for them, Its a fact.

In your hypothetical scenario, maybe….

I think we’d have the same debate. My view certainly wouldn’t change. I’m nothing if not consistent.

I think you unintentionally touched on the real issue though….it’s a power thing for women (some call it penis envy). Thanks for the insight!




edit on 8-7-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)


Lol penis envy? I think only men suffer from that



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by firemonkey
 





Are you not an individual? When did you individuality begin?


Sometime after birth. However, I don't believe that I am defined by my body. I am an eternal soul, borrowing this body for a temporal existence to further my spiritual growth.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Yes, because if he doesn't that baby will become a burden on the state. He shouldn't have been sleeping around. Personal responsibility and all that.


That's really all I needed to know from you. I can now dismiss you as a sexist that has double standards.


Well its obvious you cant counter my argument in any other way so let the name calling begin




Your opinion really isn't valid to me because it comes from you being emotional, and not logically thinking about scientific fact.


And yet, you are still to inform me exactly what a man does during the 9 months of pregnancy that contribute to the growth and development of the unborn.

When your ready



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 





Rarely! 99% is operator error!


Where do you get you faulty statistics?

FACT! 54% of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.

Accidents happen.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



And yet, you are still to inform me exactly what a man does during the 9 months of pregnancy that contribute to the growth and development of the unborn.

When your ready


I can tell you what I did for my wife, but with your bitterness towards men...I doubt you would believe it.

I supported her, I cooked for her, I gave her messages, I rubbed her feet, I went with her to all her appointments, I helped her prepare for labor, I was there with her for labor...I did anything she needed while she was pregnant.

Again, I'm sorry if this seems odd to you...you should pick your partners better if so.


I just find it hilarious that you think men shouldn't "sleep around" if they don't want to take responsibility.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



And yet, you are still to inform me exactly what a man does during the 9 months of pregnancy that contribute to the growth and development of the unborn.

When your ready


I can tell you what I did for my wife, but with your bitterness towards men...I doubt you would believe it.

I supported her, I cooked for her, I gave her messages, I rubbed her feet, I went with her to all her appointments, I helped her prepare for labor, I was there with her for labor...I did anything she needed while she was pregnant.


So... What did you do that contributed to thegrowth and development of the unborn?



Again, I'm sorry if this seems odd to you...you should pick your partners better if so.



Perhaps you want to answer the question before you start pitying me like you've got some sort of high ground




I just find it hilarious that you think men shouldn't "sleep around" if they don't want to take responsibility.


Why is it hilarious? They have personal responsibility, the state isnt going to raise your abandoned offspring, why should it?



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



So... What did you do that contributed to thegrowth and development of the unborn?


If you don't think what I did contributed to the growth and development of the unborn, that is fine...you can think that.

I think otherwise, my wife thinks otherwise...and that is all that is important.


But can you tell me what the women specifically and actively does to contribute to the growth and development of the unborn?


Why is it hilarious? They have personal responsibility, the state isnt going to raise your abandoned offspring, why should it?


Then women should close their legs to avoid abortions. I'm actually perfectly fine with both sexes being more responsible.

But the fact remains...only women can get away with killing their children.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Lol penis envy? I think only men suffer from that



Maybe gay men!


No, I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s simply a power issue for women. Men have the power and women want it. Abortion is a power trip (penis envy).


Penis envy in Freudian psychoanalysis refers to the theorized reaction of a girl during her psychosexual development to the realization that she does not have a penis. Freud considered this realization a defining moment in the development of gender and sexual identity for women[1]—the parallel reaction in boys to the realization that women do not have a penis being castration anxiety. In contemporary culture, the term sometimes refers inexactly or metaphorically to women who are presumed to wish they were men.



For girls:

Soon after the libidinal shift to the penis, the child develops her first sexual impulses towards her mother.

The girl realizes that she is not physically equipped to have a heterosexual relationship with her mother, since she does not have a penis.

She desires a penis, and the power that it represents. This is described as penis envy.
en.wikipedia.org...

It’s sad how many lives have been snuffed out because of this insecure, powerless condition.

edit on 8-7-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
If you don't think what I did contributed to the growth and development of the unborn, that is fine...you can think that.

I think otherwise, my wife thinks otherwise...and that is all that is important.
But can you tell me what the women specifically and actively does to contribute to the growth and development of the unborn?


She carries the unborn for 9 months in her body, which requires SO much to change from your hormone levels to her hips. A woman's lifestyle is changed upside down in order to cater to an unborn, a man just cannot understand what that FEELS like. If she stops eating, the baby doesnt eat. If she gets stressed, the baby gets stressed. You're just not allowed to function as yourself anymore.

Men contribute NOTHING in the first 9 months of pregnancy, that is a fact.



Why is it hilarious? They have personal responsibility, the state isnt going to raise your abandoned offspring, why should it?



Then women should close their legs to avoid abortions. I'm actually perfectly fine with both sexes being more responsible. But the fact remains...only women can get away with killing their children.


Contraception fails, abortions are necessary. They will be sought whether legal or not. It matters how society accommodates this need. Banning it out right will not make it go away.

Men should be punished for knocking up a woman and refusing responsibility by having their testicles cut off. That should be a good deterrent.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Lol penis envy? I think only men suffer from that



Maybe gay men!


No, I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s simply a power issue for women. Men have the power and women want it. Abortion is a power trip (penis envy).


Penis envy in Freudian psychoanalysis refers to the theorized reaction of a girl during her psychosexual development to the realization that she does not have a penis. Freud considered this realization a defining moment in the development of gender and sexual identity for women[1]—the parallel reaction in boys to the realization that women do not have a penis being castration anxiety. In contemporary culture, the term sometimes refers inexactly or metaphorically to women who are presumed to wish they were men.



For girls:

Soon after the libidinal shift to the penis, the child develops her first sexual impulses towards her mother.

The girl realizes that she is not physically equipped to have a heterosexual relationship with her mother, since she does not have a penis.

She desires a penis, and the power that it represents. This is described as penis envy.
en.wikipedia.org...

It’s sad how many lives have been snuffed out because of this insecure, powerless condition.

edit on 8-7-2013 by seabag because: (no reason given)




This takes me back to when i first read Freud's theory of "penis envy" - Ive never laughed so much over something so obviously thought up by a man


Its funny that were talking about power in ab abortion thread because its clear that on this issue that women have that power and its the men that want it.

Evidence for this? Its mainly male politicians trying to ban contraception and abortions. They just cant handle women having choices, its vagina envy



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Contraception fails, abortions are necessary. They will be sought whether legal or not. It matters how society accommodates this need. Banning it out right will not make it go away.

Men should be punished for knocking up a woman and refusing responsibility by having their testicles cut off. That should be a good deterrent.


Killing babies and cutting off men's testicles for non-payment of child support????

What a barbaric outlook on life.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


No. Abortion is a woman's issue that has nothing to with the men or penis envy. Because the woman is the one who is charged with carrying a pregnancy to term, it's the woman's choice to do or not to do this thing.

I think that your emotional disturbance in this issue stems from vagina envy and the fact that women are able bear life and men can't. Men feel powerless as a result of female resolve, and as a result they manufacture conflicts and act out their frustration by running off to war. If it isn't war, it's violent sports and video games or shooting animals for fun.

Men get off on killing and always have. Now, some men are all upset that women are embracing their own self defense mechanisms and using birth control and getting abortions to rid themselves of men's seed. Men are upset that women are claiming the right to flush away their precious and sacred donation, without their consent or approval.

{Disclaimer: The above generalization of men was just that, a sweeping generalization that only applies where the shoe fits. Apologies to all men who don't wear those shoes
}



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Contraception fails, abortions are necessary. They will be sought whether legal or not. It matters how society accommodates this need. Banning it out right will not make it go away.

Men should be punished for knocking up a woman and refusing responsibility by having their testicles cut off. That should be a good deterrent.


Killing babies and cutting off men's testicles for non-payment of child support????

What a barbaric outlook on life.



Well, you have to rule with an iron vagina these days.





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