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A Non-Religious Abortion Debate

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posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



You know what's best for you, f**k the host eh? Doesnt matter what she might want. She could have had 3 kids, whats 1 more on top of that eh?

I know what’s best for the life that’s going to be selfishly snuffed out.




Men do not belong in abortion debates.

Men know best….we founded this country and created almost everything in it!


Hey, two can play the chauvinist game!




posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 


I'm sorry, but you do seem confused...it's not an attack...it's an observation. If you take it as an attack, that says more about yourself than it does about my observation.


No, it says more about how you perceive your own bitterness as merely observation instead of barbed insult. Let me readdress your comment. It was an insult. It was directed at me instead of my opinion.


How can I talk about your position when you are now refusing to clearly state it?

You are refusing to define when human life begins, but you have said multiple times when you think something isn't alive. You have moved from it not being alive when it is in utero, to it only being alive when it can "assimilate nutrients", to it only being alive after a certain week of gestation, to now you aren't going to define when it is alive or not.

Can you honestly read that and say it doesn't sound confusing?


I like things simple...life begins at conception...period. If you see a logical/scientific/moral problem with my position...please point it out. If not, on what basis do you disagree with my position?


Deflection.

I simply stated my position, you are refusing to acknowledge it. You say you like things simple, my position is the most simple there is.

Pre-Term Delivery is Pre-Term Delivery.

Either it is acceptable form of ending a pregnancy or it isn't.

I say it is.

What say you?



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Men do not belong in abortion debates.


Do you believe men should be responsible for supporting a child they produce?


Before i answer that question, what has it got to do with men having an opinion on abortions? At the end of the day, its a woman's issue because female's are the ones who carry the unborn so who is a man to decide whether an abortion should be accessible or not?


If yes, do you see any double standard in your thinking?


There is no double standard here when abortion is a woman's issue.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by firemonkey
 





I like things simple...life begins at conception...period. If you see a logical/scientific/moral problem with my position...please point it out. If not, on what basis do you disagree with my position?


Wrong! You seem to be confused about basic biology. Human life is a cycle with no discernable beginning. That's just the way it is. There is no "life fairy" that bestows life at some special moment. We don't create life, we host it.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 



Pre-Term Delivery is Pre-Term Delivery.

Either it is acceptable form of ending a pregnancy or it isn't.


So your position is that an abortion is a "pre term delivery"?

Are you aware of how an abortion is performed? I wouldn't really call it a pre term delivery.

You are now just trying to dodge the fact that they doctor has to take certain steps to actually kill the fetus....he simply doesn't take it out of the womb to see if it will survive.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by firemonkey
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Men do not belong in abortion debates.


Do you believe men should be responsible for supporting a child they produce?


Before i answer that question, what has it got to do with men having an opinion on abortions? At the end of the day, its a woman's issue because female's are the ones who carry the unborn so who is a man to decide whether an abortion should be accessible or not?


If yes, do you see any double standard in your thinking?


There is no double standard here when abortion is a woman's issue.


It takes a man and women to create a baby, I'm sure you know this.

It's a simple question, do you think men should be responsible for supporting a baby they produce?



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


You know what's best for you, f**k the host eh? Doesnt matter what she might want. She could have had 3 kids, whats 1 more on top of that eh?


I know what’s best for the life that’s going to be selfishly snuffed out.



And there is absolutely nothing selfish about forcing a woman to bring to term a child she doesnt want. You seem to be lacking empathy for human beings. Or isnt a woman classed as human in your books?




Men do not belong in abortion debates.

Men know best….we founded this country and created almost everything in it!


Hey, two can play the chauvinist game!



Hahaha, men know nothing about what it feels like to be pregnant so their argument is moooooooooooot!
edit on 8-7-2013 by SearchLightsInc because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2013 by SearchLightsInc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by firemonkey
 





It's a simple question, do you think men should be responsible for supporting a baby they produce?


A man's parental responsibilities not occur until the baby is born. It has nothing to do with a woman's choice to carry a pregnancy to term.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by firemonkey
 





I like things simple...life begins at conception...period. If you see a logical/scientific/moral problem with my position...please point it out. If not, on what basis do you disagree with my position?


Wrong! You seem to be confused about basic biology. Human life is a cycle with no discernable beginning. That's just the way it is. There is no "life fairy" that bestows life at some special moment. We don't create life, we host it.


You avoided my earlier question...I'll ask it again.

If there is no beginning to this "cycle"...then there is no end...so why is murder illegal?

What you don't seem to understand is that the lecture you posted was of a professor making an argument for abortion, and he used "life" in a general sense...not an individual sense. The life cycle of "life" on earth has no discernible "beginning"....but the life of a single human being has a very definite beginning. There is a point where that humans DNA did not exist and a single point where that DNA becomes a reality.

Do you honestly believe your own life had no beginning and has no end?



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by firemonkey
 





It's a simple question, do you think men should be responsible for supporting a baby they produce?


A man's parental responsibilities not occur until the baby is born. It has nothing to do with a woman's choice to carry a pregnancy to term.


So a man and women both decide to have sex, and yet only the women gets a choice if she wants to be responsible for the result of that act? A common reason for a women having an abortion is that she isn't financially ready to have a child...what if the man isn't financially ready to have a baby? I hope you don't say that he shouldn't have had sex if he wasn't ready to have a baby.

You don't see a double standard there?



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Hahaha, men know nothing about what it feels like to be pregnant so their argument is moooooooooooot!


Men are held to a higher standard so stop whining about a little pain!


Both men and women should know how to operate their sex organs proficiently enough to avoid unwanted pregnancy. If they can’t hold a note then they shouldn’t be playing music!


Unfortunately for men, the law holds men accountable and gives women a free pass to kill. Sad reflection of our values as a society. Even sader that those (lack of) values are defended endlessly.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 



Pre-Term Delivery is Pre-Term Delivery.

Either it is acceptable form of ending a pregnancy or it isn't.


So your position is that an abortion is a "pre term delivery"?

Are you aware of how an abortion is performed? I wouldn't really call it a pre term delivery.

You are now just trying to dodge the fact that they doctor has to take certain steps to actually kill the fetus....he simply doesn't take it out of the womb to see if it will survive.


You are talking to someone who has literally seen hundreds of fetuses and embryos in various states of development. I know the steps that go into an abortion.

This time the hyperbole is mine. I unnderstand about the deconstruction of embryonic or fetal tissues during an abortion, however, that isn't the point. The point is that we are discussing medical interventions for ending pregnancies pre-term.

I don't believe you want to answer the question, and I don't blame you. It is rhetorical at best. Of course you are in favor of pre-term interventions, because they save lives. What you are having a hard time reconciling is the notion that the pre-term delivery of a 2 week old embryo does not look the same as the pre-term delivery of a 35 week old fetus, nor are the outcomes the same.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
It takes a man and women to create a baby, I'm sure you know this.


Indeed i am aware it can literally take 30 seconds to start the process of a pregnancy. Are you aware that after the male has ejaculated into the female he literally does nothing for 9 months? That's what make's abortion a woman's issue.


It's a simple question, do you think men should be responsible for supporting a baby they produce?


I fail to understand what that has to do with a pregnant woman because she is the only one responsible for supporting it while it grows to full term in her body. The man does nothing.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Hahaha, men know nothing about what it feels like to be pregnant so their argument is moooooooooooot!


Men are held to a higher standard so stop whining about a little pain!


Which men are you talking about?



Both men and women should know how to operate their sex organs proficiently enough to avoid unwanted pregnancy. If they can’t hold a note then they shouldn’t be playing music!


Quite literally, accidents happen!



Unfortunately for men, the law holds men accountable and gives women a free pass to kill. Sad reflection of our values as a society. Even sader that those (lack of) values are defended endlessly.


If it was men who had to carry the unborn abortion wouldn't even be an issue, it would be legal and openly practised. There would be no stigma. Men make society work for them, Its a fact.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 



I don't believe you want to answer the question, and I don't blame you. It is rhetorical at best. Of course you are in favor of pre-term interventions, because they save lives. What you are having a hard time reconciling is the notion that the pre-term delivery of a 2 week old embryo does not look the same as the pre-term delivery of a 35 week old fetus, nor are the outcomes the same.


I'm fine answering the question, are you fine admitting that you have again altered your position in this thread?

If an abortion consisted of a doctor delivering a pre-term fetus and doing everything in their power to keep that fetus alive, then I would have less of a problem with it. However, I would still have a problem with it because the reasoning behind it would still be to allow the fetus to die.

I have zero problems with pre-term interventions with the intentions of helping.

Again, you aren't making a whole lot of sense. It would be like me asking if you are ok with me cutting people open to kill them because you are ok with people getting cut open for surgery. You are trying to justify the act, despite the intentions behind it.

But again, it is all pointless because this is not what abortions are...they are not pre-term deliveries.

So again...what exactly is your position?



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Sorry about the poor choices you made in your life, by the mother of my child was treated as a goddess for her entire pregnancy, and after for that matter.

She developed gestational diabetes at 9 weeks and I completely changed our diets, stuck her with insulin up to 5 times a day, rubbed her body endlessly, went to every doctors appointment, every parenting and birthing class, and stayed up with her during her 77 hour labor.

The sexism needs to end.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by firemonkey
 


Again, you seem to be confused about basic biology. FACT: There is no "life fairy" that bestows life. There is no discernable beginning to life. We do not create life, we host it. Yet, life does end.

I don't make the rules, I just happen to be the bearer of news that's new to you and mysteriously seems to bypass your understanding.



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by firemonkey
It takes a man and women to create a baby, I'm sure you know this.


Indeed i am aware it can literally take 30 seconds to start the process of a pregnancy. Are you aware that after the male has ejaculated into the female he literally does nothing for 9 months? That's what make's abortion a woman's issue.


It's a simple question, do you think men should be responsible for supporting a baby they produce?


I fail to understand what that has to do with a pregnant woman because she is the only one responsible for supporting it while it grows to full term in her body. The man does nothing.


Why are you avoiding answering the question?

Not all men do "nothing" for 9 months while the women is pregnant, that is an unfair statement.

So after that 9 months is over...do you think the man should be held legally responsible for that baby whether he wants to or not?



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by firemonkey
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee
 



I don't believe you want to answer the question, and I don't blame you. It is rhetorical at best. Of course you are in favor of pre-term interventions, because they save lives. What you are having a hard time reconciling is the notion that the pre-term delivery of a 2 week old embryo does not look the same as the pre-term delivery of a 35 week old fetus, nor are the outcomes the same.


I'm fine answering the question, are you fine admitting that you have again altered your position in this thread?

If an abortion consisted of a doctor delivering a pre-term fetus and doing everything in their power to keep that fetus alive, then I would have less of a problem with it. However, I would still have a problem with it because the reasoning behind it would still be to allow the fetus to die.

I have zero problems with pre-term interventions with the intentions of helping.

Again, you aren't making a whole lot of sense. It would be like me asking if you are ok with me cutting people open to kill them because you are ok with people getting cut open for surgery. You are trying to justify the act, despite the intentions behind it.

But again, it is all pointless because this is not what abortions are...they are not pre-term deliveries.

So again...what exactly is your position?


No, I haven't altered my opinion. My posts speak for themselves, and this is the same opinion that I have had for a dozen years. You haven't actually addressed any points, so I will leave you to either do so, or not.
edit on 8-7-2013 by MichaelPMaccabee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2013 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



Sorry about the poor choices you made in your life, by the mother of my child was treated as a goddess for her entire pregnancy, and after for that matter.

She developed gestational diabetes at 9 weeks and I completely changed our diets, stuck her with insulin up to 5 times a day, rubbed her body endlessly, went to every doctors appointment, every parenting and birthing class, and stayed up with her during her 77 hour labor.

The sexism needs to end.


I dont doubt SOME men's commitment but lets be real here, most men arent on the ball that much.

Abortion is still a woman's issue purely because of the fact that its the woman carrying the unborn. Its unfair but that's how it is.



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